• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Testosterone


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 edward

  • Guest
  • 1,404 posts
  • 23
  • Location:Southeast USA

Posted 30 April 2007 - 11:24 AM


My experience with Testosterone replacement therapy. I have posted bits and pieces of this elsewhere but I just got my latest lab results.


Before any targeted supplementation or testosterone therapy:

Total Testosterone was 304 ng/ml (This is on the very low end for a male of 29 years, some factors such as my addiction to aerobic exercise and low caloric intake may be contributing to this as both have been shown to lower T levels)


After 2 months on Testim Gel 50mg per 1 tube once daily:

Total Testosterone was 613 ng/ml (very acceptable)

Some unacceptable side effects reported, notably an increase in aggression, anxiety and generally feeling "less healthy" although energy levels were up
*Stopped Testosterone Therapy to pursue herbal alternative experiment (ever the eager guinea pig)

After 1 month taking 1 gram Tongkat Ali (Longjack), 750 mg Tribulus (45% extract), 1 gram Maca, 500 mg Saw Palmetto (total daily in two divided doses)

Total Testosterone 526 ng/ml (still very acceptable)

Lutenizing and Follicle stimulating hormones around the median ranges.


I feel much better on the herbal regimine (than with no supplementation/drugs and than with the Testim Gel) and my T levels are over 70% higher than my first readings and only 15% lower than on the Testim Gel.

I will continue with the herbal regimine as it targets the whole hormonal picture from the pituitary to the gonads basically telling the body to step up the whole system where as Testim or a similar Test replacement only fills in a gap and could cause the whole system to downregulate.

In the future I may have to take pharmaceutical Test replacement therapy but I plan on delaying this as long as possible.

#2 mike250

  • Guest
  • 981 posts
  • 9

Posted 30 April 2007 - 11:37 AM

would you advise the herbal route or TRT first? and have you tested other hormones as well?

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 edward

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,404 posts
  • 23
  • Location:Southeast USA

Posted 30 April 2007 - 12:00 PM

I tested Prolactin (just in case my low T was due to a prolactinoma), DHEA, Thyroid (T3 and T4), TSH, LH, FSH and a few others. Everything was within the normal range accept for the Testosterone.

*Note* I am not recommending anything as I am not a Doctor (even if I was it still would not be ethical to make a blanket recommendation), I am only sharing my experience and opinion. My opinion is that if the herbal approach raises your T levels like it did mine that it may offer some advantages. I theorize that it will not be enough though for people with more severe deficits or who are older, but I think its worth a try (with lab values of course) for a month or so before one commits to injectable or transdermal Test therapy.

#4 mike250

  • Guest
  • 981 posts
  • 9

Posted 30 April 2007 - 12:04 PM

thanks for the reply. well what I did notice is that you initially took the gel then continued with the herbal route. I always thought that these herbal regimes would just make your body work harder.

#5 edward

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,404 posts
  • 23
  • Location:Southeast USA

Posted 30 April 2007 - 12:07 PM

I initially did the gel because I really wasnt expecting low T values and simply went with my doctor's recommendation which for about a month was fine, I felt better, then I had the above mentioned side effects.

In retrospect I would have started out with the herbal route and if it gave my T levels the boost they needed then I wouldn't have tried the pharmaceutical route.

#6 mike250

  • Guest
  • 981 posts
  • 9

Posted 30 April 2007 - 12:20 PM

if the testicle functioning was totally shut down would the herbs be of any benefit, after initial gel usage?

#7 edward

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,404 posts
  • 23
  • Location:Southeast USA

Posted 30 April 2007 - 12:42 PM

If the testicle functioning was totally shut down then the herbs should be almost useless until and if functioning returns, as you previously said all they do is make you body work harder or upregulate the system, they don't contain any testosterone or testosterone precursors.

That is why I waited a month to get my latest lab results, to A. give the herbs time to work and B. to allow my system to recover from any shut down caused by the Testim gel

If as is the case with older individuals, the testicles are simply not functioning very well at all then it would seem that the herbs would not have as much of an effect, so lifetime testosterone replacement, that is substituting externally derived hormone for all of one's natural production seems to be the only way to go. If you still have functioning though the herbs might be a good alternative. Again this is just my educated opinion.

Note that I also take Resveratrol which has been shown to be an anti-estrogen, which should via feedback support testosterone levels. Your body naturally ups testosterone production in the presence of low estrogen levels so I think this component is worth mentioning. But again if the testicles are not functioning well and don't have the potential to function well then even the estrogen feedback mechanism won't help you much.

#8 mike250

  • Guest
  • 981 posts
  • 9

Posted 30 April 2007 - 01:30 PM

but how much of an estrogen lowering effect would reveratrol have? would it be comparable to things like DIM fro example?

#9 davie1a

  • Guest
  • 59 posts
  • 0
  • Location:Currently working in Kiev

Posted 30 April 2007 - 02:51 PM

That’s excellent news Edward, I would never have expected the herbal route would have worked almost as well on your test levels as with the test gel.

How much Aerobic exercise do you do daily ?

#10 trance

  • Guest
  • 335 posts
  • 112
  • Location:Dallas, Tx

Posted 30 April 2007 - 03:08 PM

After 1 month taking 1 gram Tongkat Ali (Longjack), 750 mg Tribulus (45% extract), 1 gram Maca, 500 mg Saw Palmetto (total daily in two divided doses)

Did you take this in the form of a single supplement, or combination? If so, which one/s specifically?

#11 edward

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,404 posts
  • 23
  • Location:Southeast USA

Posted 01 May 2007 - 02:57 PM

Answers to questions:

Q: But how much of an estrogen lowering effect would reveratrol have? would it be comparable to things like DIM fro example?

A: It appears that Resveratrol in the presence of natural estrogens in vivo (in the body) is very anti-estrogenic however without the presence of any natural estrogens (in vitro, in culture) it very weakly mimics some estrogen effects. Basically the net result in your body is that it will work to counter the effects of estrogen. Here is one article. http://cancerres.aac...ract/61/20/7456 Its complicated but again the net result in your body not in a petri dish is that it will down regulate estrogen. Its hard to compare the effects to another substance such as DIM because no studies have been done comparing these. Personally I have taken DIM and stopped it when I started taking high dose Resveratrol because I believe that with Resveratrol, the DIM is not necessary.

Q: How much Aerobic exercise do you do Daily?

I used to do a lot more (45 min 5 times a week). Now I limit myself to 3 sessions per week either on the treadmill or outdoors 20-45 min.

Q: Did you take this in the form of a single supplement, or combination? If so, which one/s specifically?

I made my own supplement using custom capsule and for testosterone support I included Tongkat Ali (longjack), Tribulus, Maca and Saw Palmetto. I also added additional Tongkat Ali, Tribulus, Maca and Saw Palmetto (various brands) that I ordered from Iherb. My total daily dosages came out to be 1 g, 750 mg, 1 gram and 500 mg. I may play around with this. It dosent matter where you get your product just try to know the amount you are taking and adjust if necessary and GET BLOOD TEST RESULTS ON YOUR HORMONE LEVELS or you won't have a clue where you are. The key with herbs is to know what the standardization or concentration (whole herb, extract or standardized) your product is and take whatever amount you need based on standardization or concentration. Everybody will differ. I basically took the maximum dosage for Tongkat (because from past experience this herb is very effective for me personally), the recommended dosage of Tribulus (I forget where I found this recommendation but I think it was on a bodybuilding forum), Maca I took one gram because I know that 2 grams by itself gives me a subjective effect so I reasoned with everything else I didn't need that much due to synergistic effects. Saw Palmetto was taken mainly to prevent some of the negative DHT conversion effects and 500 mg was a good dose for the extracts I have. *** Note that this is far from scientific and I am not recommending anything as each person will respond differently. For instance I know from past experience that Tongkat is very effective for my body as a pro sexual supplement (thus I extrapolate that its testosterone enhancing effects work well for me, thus I am taking a high dose). I also know that Tribulus dosen't seem to work as well for me but a lot of people say it works great for them, but for me I decided to take a rather moderate dose. Etcetera etcetera.

It also must be noted that I take whole host of other supplements which may have some effect especially when I added in the Testosterone supporting supps (synergism). I also think that weight training (heavy weights, low repetitions and short sessions) at least twice a week is also pro testosterone as is eating enough high quality protein and getting enough rest. Again, the whole picture is complicated. The major varible manipulated in my little experiment was the "testosterone replacement protocal": Nothing, Testim Gel, Herb Mix. The other factors I have mentioned, other supplements, exercise, rest etc. remained relatively constant.

Edited by edward, 01 May 2007 - 04:33 PM.


#12 mike250

  • Guest
  • 981 posts
  • 9

Posted 01 May 2007 - 09:13 PM

I've always wondered how much of a test increase you can get out of weight-lifting. my doctor its a minor increase.

#13 edward

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,404 posts
  • 23
  • Location:Southeast USA

Posted 02 May 2007 - 03:28 PM

I've always wondered how much of a test increase you can get out of weight-lifting. my doctor its a minor increase.


Here is one study (just did a quick search, I'm sure there are others). They don't give numbers as in increase of x ng/dl, but they do say the increase in all testosterone and pro testosterone measures (LH etc.) was signifigant, meaning not attributable to chance alone in statistical analysis, usually this is good enough for say drug companies to market a new drug as therapy for a condition so I am thinking that over time the increase would be impressive but thats speculation.

http://www.the-aps.o...urnal/03/28.htm

#14 luv2increase

  • Guest
  • 2,529 posts
  • 37
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 02 May 2007 - 09:10 PM

I don't know if you've stated it or not, but do you incorporate a weight-lifting regimen into your lifestyle?

#15 edward

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,404 posts
  • 23
  • Location:Southeast USA

Posted 03 May 2007 - 12:22 AM

Yes I lift weights 2-3 times a week. I focus on high weight, low reps and high intensity using macro movements like squats, bench press, dead lifts, military presses etcetera. I use supersets and work to failure by reducing the weight by 10 to 20 lbs to squeeze out a few more reps (Mike Mentzer style)

#16 vortexentity

  • Guest
  • 243 posts
  • 1
  • Location:Florida

Posted 03 May 2007 - 02:30 AM

I think the product 6OXO is best product for legal stimulation of testosterone level. It is a suicide aromatase inhibitor and this blocks the formation of estrogen and causes men to produce more testosterone in response. It is very effective. I started using it to fend of the negatives of increased estrogen production when I would cycle with 4AD. I noticed higher levels of estrogen when my body would convert that extra testosterone created by the 4AD. Increased Zinc intake also helps to reduce the aromatization effect.

When they were about to ban prohormones I took the initiative and purchased a couple hundred grams and carefully packaged cryo-preserved them for future use. Far more than I am likely to ever use but you never know. I find that 6OXO is very effective in blocking estrogen production caused by added testosterone levels.

It is a shame to put a lot of money and time into increasing your testosterone levels and have your body convert what it sees as extra into estrogen.

#17 edward

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 1,404 posts
  • 23
  • Location:Southeast USA

Posted 03 May 2007 - 02:36 AM

I tried 6OXO it made me feel like crap, I mean really bad for about 12 hours or so. I sent it back for a refund and won't go near it again. Maybe it does inhibit estrogen and boost testosterone but it definely does something else that is not good.

#18 vortexentity

  • Guest
  • 243 posts
  • 1
  • Location:Florida

Posted 03 May 2007 - 02:46 AM

I am guessing you took a pill internally and not the dermal version. Just a guess. I can not take the pills at all as they are not effective and they make me feel ill. The dermal on the other hand is quite a bit different.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for SUPPLEMENTS (in thread) to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#19 HereInTheHole

  • Guest
  • 105 posts
  • 2

Posted 06 October 2008 - 01:21 AM

After 1 month taking 1 gram Tongkat Ali (Longjack), 750 mg Tribulus (45% extract), 1 gram Maca, 500 mg Saw Palmetto (total daily in two divided doses)

Total Testosterone 526 ng/ml (still very acceptable)

Lutenizing and Follicle stimulating hormones around the median ranges.

I feel much better on the herbal regimine (than with no supplementation/drugs and than with the Testim Gel) and my T levels are over 70% higher than my first readings and only 15% lower than on the Testim Gel.


I've been taking these four supps for 3 days. It might be the placebo effect, but I've felt more stable than I have in years. I have to closely manage my food intake to prevent drastic dips in blood sugar. Two days in a row I went for an unusually long time without eating without a problem. Normally I get tired and cranky and depressed after about two hours. Even a set of sprints yesterday (day 2) didn't ruin my day. The food has been the same stuff I always eat. I don't know exactly what's going on internally, but it's a big improvement so far. Three days isn't much of a test yet. I'm just excited. ;)

Sorry for reviving an old thread, if that matters.

Edited by NarrativiumX, 06 October 2008 - 01:32 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users