27 replies to this topic

[zoolander]

I haven't really taken nootropics for close to 8-12 months now. My focus switched more towards neutraceuticals.

I have been reconsidering of late and noticed a few positive studies popping up here and there. My workload seems to be getting bigger by the day and it's becoming quite taxing.

So, in saying that, the list of nootropics is quiet extensive and I use to take quiet a few. You have your cholinergics such as ALCAR, Centro, Choline, DMAE, Huperzine A and Galantamine and the various racetams such as piracetam and aniracetam. You also have your dopaminergics like phenylalanine, tyrosine, theanine, deprenyl. Then you have the serotonergics and GABAs.

On top of all of this there is another school of nootropics that aid cognition by increasing one's ability to deal with stress, anxiety and depression. Compounds such as the adaptogens ashwagandha and rhodiola. Calamtives like velarian and St.Johns wort.

So for nootropic experts, whats are your subjective experiances with nootropics.

1. What are your top 5 (in order) Nootropics.

2. What has worked for you and what hasn't?

[ikaros]

My workload seems to be getting bigger by the day and it's becoming quite taxing.

What are you exactly looking for? Better recall, memory encoding (i.e. learning), focus, mental stamina, wakelfulness? For temporary increased workload I'd take glutamine for a month or two, lecithin's also effective at larger doses (needs a week to kick in IMO). Basically it all comes down to getting more boost, so stimulants are a must if you need to keep that horse running. Though another way is to take short 30 minute naps turing the day which have shown to be very beneficial for mental recuperation, encoding and improving cognitive performance. No more than 30 minutes is necessary. The mind just needs to go blank for couple of precious moments after some serious information intake.
(note: the naps and stimulants don't go together, so think about short-acting stimulants like caffeine and nicotine)

[spaceistheplace]

I've gone a more natural route.

I take rhodiola, theanine, gotu kola, lecithin, bacopa, and goat colostrum.

i notice the greatest effects when taking rhodiola

[ageless]

1. SAMe, Acetyl L-carnitine, Cdp-choline, caffeine, Huperzine-a. I like the hundreds of studies on safety and effectiveness that I've read on each of these. Huperzine-a maybe the most questionable, but if done correctly there should be no problems.
Finding a top quality SAMe is essential to its effectiveness....stability and trust on the dose from a manufacturer like AOR.
I really like AOR's Turbo Tyro Tea for boosting dopamine, mood and motivation taken first thing in the morning. Great for libido btw.
Fish Oil is essential as is choline to building a better brain along with a good multi like AOR's Multi Basics or Ortho Core.
I wish I was supplementing a choline and epa/dha supp when i was a wee lad.

2. Each of these have worked for me for many years and I continue to incorporate them into my weekly regimen.

[ageless]

I might add that since taking SAMe, my life has generally improved in my mood and outlook. I have seen more success and while I can't guarantee SAMe has played a role, I believe the science and my experience suggest some measure of involvement. SAMe is like my daily coffee.

[DukeNukem]

Such a tough question, but I'll go with:

ALCAR
melatonin
blueberry extract (pterostilbene)
deprenyl
galantamine
DMAE

[Shepard]

How are we really classifying nootropics these days?

If I was to choose five that really affect my mental performance:

Intermittent Fasting (I'm digging this thing, I know, I took a big dose of placebo)
Vinpocetine
Xanthines
Tyrosine
Sulbutiamine

[edward]

Very tough question, if I had to pick a top five under the strict criteria of them being true nootropics they would be...

1. Piracetam (along with Pyroglutamate and Choline, both seem to really aid its effect for me)
2. ALCAR (along with alpha lipoic acid at least in the literature it is a must to prevent any mito damage)
3. "vasoactive compounds" gingko, hydergine, vinpocetine (I think that there is major overlap here so pick which works best for you or which combo)
4. Deprenyl
5. LOW dose Modafinil (I now only take 25mg)


Notes:
I would also throw in grape seed, resveratrol, green tea, cocoa and others as I subjectively feel more mentally quick with these though they are not classic nootropics
Low dose ashwaganda seems to help me in the area of social intelligence as does l-theanine so much so that these are a must for me

It all depends on what one is trying to enhance or accomplish and what kind of work or study one is performing and how one reacts and what one's deficits are.

[edward]

Intermittent Fasting (I'm digging this thing, I know, I took a big dose of placebo)

Shepard,

I have been doing this recently and I too feel much more cognitively engaged during the week (or so I think, great placebo if it is that) after my 36 hour Sat Night to Monday Morning modified fast (with water, supplements and about 40 grams protein powder). What is your current regimen? Are you still following your "evolutionary" protocol, if so what do you define as periodic fasting? How long many times per week or month? With water, supplements, protein?

[Shepard]

Shepard,

I have been doing this recently and I too feel much more cognitively engaged during the week (or so I think, great placebo if it is that) after my 36 hour Sat Night to Monday Morning modified fast (with water, supplements and about 40 grams protein powder). What is your current regimen? Are you still following your "evolutionary" protocol, if so what do you define as periodic fasting? How long many times per week or month? With water, supplements, protein?

Yeah, I'm still following the "Evolutionary Project". My scheduled eating period is from 11-7, but with my schedule it ends up being scattered around. I've tried the Eades style IF before, and didn't enjoy it as much as this compressed daily eating window. Some days I don't eat until after noon, some days I have to cut it off around 5:30 or 6. De Vany does his "lean days" thing every third day or so, I think. I just don't eat fruit on non-workout days. I'll probably also introduce a longer fast on maybe Sundays: have my one meal then a 24 hr. fast until the next day.

[luv2increase]

1. Piracetam

2. Choline Source

3. Caffeine

4. ALCAR

5. Fish-Oil (If one would call it a noot)

Number 1 and 2 go hand in hand. Don't take one without the other.

[synaesthetic]

1) The ones (although not all are "technically" nootropics) that I've been enjoying most lately are: American Ginseng, Alpha GPC, Maca, Royal Jelly, & TMG

2) Piracetam Aniracetam Oxiracetam seemed to make me more focused but also had the negative side effect of making me more irritable and "snobby" I also ran out of alpha gpc at one point and quit all the ratems at once, which then I went through a type of withdrawl phase where I had a much harder time concentrating.

All the articles praising it didn't really mention that aspect of dependence and I have since quit taking the *ratems.

2) Rhodiola boosts my mood when I take it, but I became dependant on it after a week or two and became depressed in the late evening if I missed my second dose, I tried cycling it but have quit taking it because it messes with my mood too much.

I enjoy galantamine and sulbutiamine at times, but I feel that I should not use them daily because of their long-term effects (I am only 22).

I have to mention I drink Green and White Tea by the gallons lol!!

[jdog]

Shepard,

I have been doing this recently and I too feel much more cognitively engaged during the week (or so I think, great placebo if it is that) after my 36 hour Sat Night to Monday Morning modified fast (with water, supplements and about 40 grams protein powder). What is your current regimen? Are you still following your "evolutionary" protocol, if so what do you define as periodic fasting? How long many times per week or month? With water, supplements, protein?

Yeah, I'm still following the "Evolutionary Project". My scheduled eating period is from 11-7, but with my schedule it ends up being scattered around. I've tried the Eades style IF before, and didn't enjoy it as much as this compressed daily eating window. Some days I don't eat until after noon, some days I have to cut it off around 5:30 or 6. De Vany does his "lean days" thing every third day or so, I think. I just don't eat fruit on non-workout days. I'll probably also introduce a longer fast on maybe Sundays: have my one meal then a 24 hr. fast until the next day.

Aren't you concerned about muscular atrophy?

[Shepard]

Aren't you concerned about muscular atrophy?

No, not really.

[DukeNukem]

>>> How are we really classifying nootropics these days?

Always a point of confusion with noots. Some people seem to lean toward cognitive boosting benefits, some toward temporary mental highs, and some (like me) are purely brain health oriented.

[zoolander]

IMO Nootropics are compounds that enhance cognitive function. They can do this by modifying neurotransmitters actions (precursors, cofactors and reuptake inhibitors) or by minimising factors that decrease cognitive function such as stress, anxiety and depression.

There's another explanation here in Australia. Nootropics are any supplement that the freakin' TGA make hard to import for personal use. Piracetam has just been put on the schedule 4 medicines and poisons list, hence anyone who tries to import piracetam from may 1, 2007 will most likely have there package seize by customs

[Athanasios]

Piracetram a schedule 4? nice...

In the end, I went for nootropics/cog enhancers that have health benefits as well, besides just neuroprotection. In no order:

1. Bacopa
2. Gingko Biloba
3. ALCAR
4. Ashwaghanda
5. Rhodiola

I know I know, it is fairly adaptogeny

[hst1]

cnorwood - I'm leaning in the adaptogenic direction. I haven't started any nootopics yet but I'm considering starting out with Ashwaghanda and Rhodiola then adding in Piracetam and Vinpo slowly.

What effect have you seem from that stack - not only nootropic/cog way but also stress, energy, and overall health.

You seem to like the adaptogens - I've been looking at your supplement regime in the subforum. Thanks

[mike250]

IMO Nootropics are compounds that enhance cognitive function. They can do this by modifying neurotransmitters actions (precursors, cofactors and reuptake inhibitors) or by minimising factors that decrease cognitive function such as stress, anxiety and depression.

There's another explanation here in Australia. Nootropics are any supplement that the freakin' TGA make hard to import for personal use. Piracetam has just been put on the schedule 4 medicines and poisons list, hence anyone who tries to import piracetam from may 1, 2007 will most likely have there package seize by customs

so it has become a prescription medicine.

[Athanasios]

cnorwood - What effect have you seem from that stack - not only nootropic/cog way but also stress, energy, and overall health.

I responded in my personal regimen thread:
http://www.imminst.o...=238&t=11431&s=

[spaceistheplace]

should we be stocking up on piracetam while we can?

[juanjo_asdf]

For me a nootropic is something that generally doesn’t have an acute effect, improves quality of ideas vs quantity (stim are quantity) and if I chose to I could consume indefinitely.

1. Piracetam+Alpha-GPC+Centrophenoxine
2. Pramiracetam would go here but it has acute effect and I would go crazy with that amount of horsepower every day

That’s all I KNOW works powerfully. Give me a few months and I'll be adding a few to the list; hydergine and deprenyl. Ive tried both but I haven’t isolated them enough to know what their effect is. Hydergine I want to give it a fair trial on its own and give it a few months, and not give up on it like I have in the past. I have always been attracted to nootropics in how there effects slowly build up and there is no instant gratification like with drugs.

Other things that don’t fall into my definition of nootropics but give me brain power are.

*Psilocybin (Ive only consumed them a few times these last few years and dont go over 0.5g, more like 0.25g, for me they belong with fasting and enhance my spirituality in times of meditation and prayer)
*Modafinil (Ive quit taking this for more than a month now)
*MDMA (Being able to give onself psycho-therapy is amazing, I travel through feelings not ideas - make me feel like my brain is getting fried though, Ive been clean for 3 years)
*Amphetamines (Dirty brain energy IMO)

My curiosity lately is geared to mood enhancing supplements and adaptogens&such (permanent increases in intelligence). Although dipping into the mood enhancing category has made me feel sort of like a duggy always wanting to change my state through chemistry and not through experience (I have a moral issue since I take mood enhancers when needed but am tempted to include them on my daily regime).

[abelard lindsay]

Such a tough question, but I'll go with:

ALCAR
melatonin
blueberry extract (pterostilbene)
deprenyl
galantamine
DMAE

Pterostilbene is a nootropic??!? Is this your own personal research or has there been a clinical study?

[zoolander]

Holy moly nacro! that's one crazy recommendation.

[basho]

I tried the usual things people recommend here: ALCAR, Bacopa, Ashwaghanda, Vinpocetine, etc, but the only things that really made a noticable difference were:

1. EPA/DHA (over several months) + SAMe (could be a placebo effect though)
2. Caffeine
3. Diet correction (cut down on simple carbs, elimination of alcohol, switch to mostly vegetarian, etc.)
4. Exercise
5. Several days of rest and relaxation away from work + some good escapist fiction

I haven't given up on suppliments though. I'm still watching this area closely.

[DukeNukem]

>>> Pterostilbene is a nootropic

My reading (very few here do actual research <g>) strongly suggests that pterostilbene has a significant effect on brain health. Here's one source:
http://tinyurl.com/2ewy74

[zoolander]

any compound that attentuates cognitive dysfunction is also a nootropic IMO.