16 replies to this topic

[stephen_b]

In a recent newsletter, Dr. Allen Josephs wrote:

Based on the most current double-blind, placebo-controlled studies in humans, I've been recommending 1,200 mg a day of CoQ10 to my patients for promoting optimal brain health.

Of course, he recommended his brand, which also includes bioperine.

His references:

1. Young AJ, Johnson S, Steffens DC, Doraiswamy PM. Coenzyme Q10: a review of its promise as a neuroprotectant. CNS Spectr. 2007 Jan;12(1):62-8.
2. Rosenfeldt FL, Haas SJ, Krum H, Hadj A, Ng K, Leong JY, Watts GF. Coenzyme Q10 in the treatment of hypertension: a meta-analysis of the clinical trials. J Hum Hypertens. 2007 Apr;21(4):297-306.
3. Belardinelli R, Mucaj A, Lacalaprice F, Solenghi M, Seddaiu G, Principi F, Tiano L, Littarru GP. Coenzyme Q10 and exercise training in chronic heart failure. Eur Heart J. 2006 Nov;27(22):2675-81.

Stephen

[edward]

thats a lot of CoQ10 not to mentioin costly

[shadowrun]

Thats the first time i've ever seen a reccomendation for such a high dose

[proteomist]

Off hand it seems reasonable to me given the terrible bioavailability. Not more than a few tens of mgs will likely get to your bloodstream, i think.

[shifter]

Still, just one small 30mg capsule will provide more co-q10 than most 'western diets' will ever provide, even with the poor bio-availibility. (what makes the miniscule amounts in food any more bio availiable?)

As I am young, fit and healthy with no health concerns, I am happy with 50mg. Healthy Origins have them at a great price too http://www.iherb.com...s&cid=ubiquinol

I am glad he mentions the difference between the naturally fermented and synthetic varieties. It seems more brands are taking note of this.

[trevyn]

I've been taking 400mg CoQ10 oil-based gelcaps (~$1/day) for about 2.5 years now, and it's one of the few non-negotiable supplements in my regimen--I notice a distinct decline in gum health when off of it. I've recently switched to 400mg ubiquinol (~$2/day) in lieu of experimenting with higher doses of ubiquinone. I can't really speak to the cost/benefit analysis of various doses of CoQ10, but it's pretty well established that higher doses can have increased benefit in ill subjects without significant side-effects, and I enjoy throwing money at my body. When playing with higher doses, it can also really pay to shop around and be willing to buy in bulk.

[shifter]

Does anyone know if you absorb more if you take a lot at once or spread out. If things like these have poor bioavailibilty, then wouldn't it be better to 'flood' the system rather than small amounts which could totally miss out.

Also better on an empty stomach? If its buried in food, does that not increase the chance of being missed all together? Unfortuantly for me there are things that can literally go in one end and out the other in 3-4 hours.

[krillin]

Does anyone know if you absorb more if you take a lot at once or spread out. If things like these have poor bioavailibilty, then wouldn't it be better to 'flood' the system rather than small amounts which could totally miss out.

Also better on an empty stomach? If its buried in food, does that not increase the chance of being missed all together? Unfortuantly for me there are things that can literally go in one end and out the other in 3-4 hours.

Divided doses is better. Dissolved in oil is also better, so it's probably best with meals so that you get bile to help with absorption.

Biofactors. 2005;25(1-4):219-24.
Effect on absorption and oxidative stress of different oral Coenzyme Q10 dosages and intake strategy in healthy men.
Singh RB, Niaz MA, Kumar A, Sindberg CD, Moesgaard S, Littarru GP.

Halberg Hospital and Research Institute, Moradabad, India. icn2005@mickyonline.com

INTRODUCTION: The effect of various dosages and dose strategies of oral coenzyme Q(10) (Q(100) administration on serum Q(10) concentration and bioequivalence of various formulations are not fully known. SUBJECTS AND METHODS: In a randomized, double blind, placebo controlled trial 60 healthy men, aged 18-55 years, were supplemented with various dosages and dose strategies of coenzyme Q(10) soft oil capsules (Myoqinon 100 mg, Pharma Nord, Denmark) or crystalline 100 mg Q(10) powder capsules or placebo. After 20 days blood levels were compared and oxidative load parameters, malondialdehyde (MDA) and thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (TBARS) were monitored to evaluate bioequivalence. All the subjects were advised to take the capsules with meals. Blood samples were collected after 12 hours of overnight fasting at baseline and after 20 days of Q(10) administration. Compliance was evaluated by counting the number of capsules returned by the subjects after the trial. RESULTS: Compliance by capsule counting was >90%. Side effects were negligible. Serum concentrations of Q(10) (average for groups) increased significantly 3-10 fold in the intervention groups compared with the placebo group. Serum response was improved with a divided dose strategy. TBARS and MDA were in the normal ranges at baseline. After 20 days intervention in the 200 mg group TBARS and MDA decreased, but the decrease was only significant for MDA (Fig. 2). Conclusions: All supplementations increased serum levels of Q(10). Q(10) dissolved in an oil matrix was more effective than the same amount of crystalline Q(10) in raising Q(10) serum levels. 200 mg of oil/soft gel formulation of Q(10) caused a larger increase in Q(10) serum levels than did 100 mg. Divided dosages (2 x 100 mg) of Q(10) caused a larger increase in serum levels of Q(10) than a single dose of 200 mg. Supplementation was associated with decreased oxidative stress as measured by MDA-levels. Indians appear to have low baseline serum coenzyme Q(10) levels which may be due to vegetarian diets. Further studies in larger number of subjects would be necessary to confirm our findings.

PMID: 16873950

[trevyn]

PMID: 16873950

Hm, pretty substantial benefit to divided doses there.

Serum values:

0.25-0.4mg/l baseline
0.9mg/l 100mg oil-based at dinner
1.34mg/l 200mg oil-based at dinner
1.98mg/l 200mg oil-based, half at breakfast, half at dinner
0.9mg/l 200mg crystalline powder, half at breakfast, half at dinner

[shifter]

If taking co-q10 in an oil helps with absorption, is taking it at the same time I take my tablespoon of coconut oil sound good for the absorption? I have read that coconut oil does not need bile to breakdown though...

[maxwatt]

1200 mg CoQ10 a day has been recommended for Parkinson's. It has been shown to slow progression in clinical trials, but most doctors don't believer it. (My neighbor suffers from the disease, his wife turned up this information, and it seems to have held the disease at bay for 9 years.)

There are water soluble formulations of CoQ10, at least one of which was shown to result in higher serum levels than oil based formulations; both were superior to crystalline CoQ10.

Int J Food Sci Nutr. 2006 Nov-Dec;57(7-8):546-55.
Comparison of the relative bioavailability of different coenzyme Q10 formulations with a novel solubilizate (Solu Q10).Schulz C, Obermuller-Jevic UC, Hasselwander O, Bernhardt J, Biesalski HK.
BioTeSys GmbH, Esslingen, Germany. c.schulzATbiotesys.de

The relative bioavailability of coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is markedly influenced by its delivery systems. The aim of this study was to compare four standard CoQ10 supplements available on the market with a novel solubilizate formulation of CoQ10 (Solu Q10). Pharmacokinetic parameters were assessed in 54 healthy volunteers after single and multiple intakes of 60 mg CoQ10 over a time period of 14 days. Solubilizates showed earlier flooding compared with oily dispersions and crystalline CoQ10, resulting in significantly elevated area under the curve between 0 and 4 h (P<0.01 solubilizates versus crystalline). The difference in the pharmacokinetic parameters of maximum plasma concentration, time to reach the peak plasma concentration and area under the curve between 0 and 12 h was not statistically significant between formulations. Long-term supplementation resulted in significantly higher plasma levels (P<0.01) for all formulations, with Solu Q10 performing best. Intracellular CoQ10 levels measured in buccal mucosa cells were increased (P<0.05) in response to supplementation when starting within the physiological range. In summary, solubilizates were clearly superior to oily dispersions and crystalline CoQ10 in their overall bioavailability, with the best absorption characteristics seen for the novel Solu Q10 solubilizate.

PMID: 17162333

[ageless]

1200 mg CoQ10 a day has been recommended for Parkinson's.  It has been shown to slow progression in clinical trials, but most doctors don't believer it.  (My neighbor suffers from the disease, his wife turned up this information, and it seems to have held the disease at bay for 9 years.)

There are water soluble formulations of CoQ10, at least one of which was shown to result in higher serum levels than oil based formulations; both were superior to crystalline  CoQ10.

Int J Food Sci Nutr. 2006 Nov-Dec;57(7-8):546-55. 
Comparison of the relative bioavailability of different coenzyme Q10 formulations with a novel solubilizate (Solu Q10).Schulz C, Obermuller-Jevic UC, Hasselwander O, Bernhardt J, Biesalski HK.
BioTeSys GmbH, Esslingen, Germany. c.schulzATbiotesys.de

The relative bioavailability of coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is markedly influenced by its delivery systems. The aim of this study was to compare four standard CoQ10 supplements available on the market with a novel solubilizate formulation of CoQ10 (Solu Q10). Pharmacokinetic parameters were assessed in 54 healthy volunteers after single and multiple intakes of 60 mg CoQ10 over a time period of 14 days. Solubilizates showed earlier flooding compared with oily dispersions and crystalline CoQ10, resulting in significantly elevated area under the curve between 0 and 4 h (P<0.01 solubilizates versus crystalline). The difference in the pharmacokinetic parameters of maximum plasma concentration, time to reach the peak plasma concentration and area under the curve between 0 and 12 h was not statistically significant between formulations. Long-term supplementation resulted in significantly higher plasma levels (P<0.01) for all formulations, with Solu Q10 performing best. Intracellular CoQ10 levels measured in buccal mucosa cells were increased (P<0.05) in response to supplementation when starting within the physiological range. In summary, solubilizates were clearly superior to oily dispersions and crystalline CoQ10 in their overall bioavailability, with the best absorption characteristics seen for the novel Solu Q10 solubilizate.

PMID: 17162333

I guess most doctors like to remain in denial that the only proven therapy to slow the progression of parkinsons lies in an over-the-counter nutrient. No drug has done this in any study, just CoQ10.

[mediumspiny]

I guess most doctors like to remain in denial that the only proven therapy to slow the progression of parkinsons lies in an over-the-counter nutrient. No drug has done this in any study, just CoQ10.

A multi center, NIH funded study of CoQ10 in Parkinson's disease has recently started. Clearly results will not be published for a few years, but mainline medical research is considering whether there is a scientific case for use of CoQ10.

Other NINDS-funded neuroprotectant trials include a planned Phase III study of CoEnzyme Q-10 ("QE3")

Co-Q 10 Information Summary

[cinnabar]

I heard about this today.

Randomized, Double-blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial on Symptomatic Effects of Coenzyme Q10 in Parkinson Disease.

    * Storch A,* Jost WH,* Vieregge P,* Spiegel
J,* Greulich W,* Durner J,* Muller T,* Kupsch A,*
Henningsen H,* Oertel WH,* Fuchs G,* Kuhn W,*
Niklowitz P,* Koch R,* Herting B,* Reichmann H.

    Author Affiliations: Department of Neurology, University of Ulm, Ulm, Germany.

    BACKGROUND: Major hallmarks in the pathophysiology of Parkinson disease are cellular energy depletion and oxidative stress leading to cellular dysfunction and death. Coenzyme Q(10) (CoQ(10)) is an electron acceptor bridging mitochondrial complexes I and II/III and a potent antioxidant that consistently partially recovers the function of dopaminergic neurons. OBJECTIVE: To determine whether nanoparticular CoQ(10) is safe and displays symptomatic effects in patients with midstage Parkinson disease without motor fluctuations. DESIGN: Multicenter, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, stratified, parallel-group, single-dose trial. SETTING: Academic and nonacademic movement disorder clinics.Patients One hundred thirty-one patients with Parkinson disease without motor fluctuations and a stable antiparkinsonian treatment.Intervention Random assignment to placebo or nanoparticular CoQ(10) (100 mg 3 times a day) for a treatment period of 3 months. Stratification criterion was levodopa treatment.Main Outcome Measure The subjects underwent evaluation with the Unified Parkinson's Disease Rating Scale (UPDRS) at each visit on a monthly basis. The primary outcome variable was the change of the sum score of the UPDRS parts II and III between the baseline and 3-month visits. RESULTS: One hundred thirty-one subjects were randomized according to the protocol. The mean changes of the sum UPDRS parts II/III score were -3.69 for the placebo group and -3.33 for the CoQ(10) group (P = .82). Statistical analysis according to the stratification did not result in significant changes of the primary outcome variable. No secondary outcome measure showed a significant change between the placebo group and the CoQ(10) group. The frequency and quality of adverse events were similar in both treatment groups. CONCLUSIONS: Nanoparticular CoQ(10) at a dosage of 300 mg/d is safe and well tolerated and leads to plasma levels similar to 1200 mg/d of standard formulations. Add-on CoQ(10) does not display symptomatic effects in midstage Parkinson disease.Trial Registration clinicaltrials.gov Identifier: NCT00180037Published online May 14, 2007 (doi:10.1001/archneur.64.7.nct60005).

    PMID: 17502459 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

says here that the authors suggest up to 2400mg/day should be tried for longer periods for studying PD
http://www.medscape....warticle/556637

says here that blood levels increased by 3.47mg/L over the three month period. It also says the coq10 is 'nanoparticular' from MSE Pharmazeutika. Does that mean crystal or powder rather than oil was used?
http://www.nutraingr...uiqpxihzrgrkyik

I would love to know if this means low doses (less than 300mg/day for example) for most people (non Parkinsons) are useless.

Thanks!

[xanadu]

I take 50mg per day since I can't find the 30mg caps anymore. Unless you suffer from a condition like parkinsons I would caution anyone from going with these megadose regimens. It may turn out that there are side effects plus there is the cost. It's interesting that the doctor who is pushing 1200 mg per day is also selling the stuff. Conflict of interest?

[kurdishfella]

Since coq10 is fat soluble how do i dissolve it? if its already an oil/fat form can i mix it water to make it thin

Edited by kurdishfella, 01 February 2022 - 09:22 PM.

[syr_]

How this compares to Ubiquinol?