130 replies to this topic

[EmbraceUnity]

Both my grandfathers were bald by 30, and my father has a receding hairline. I read that DHT is the likely culprit. I also read that Saw Palmetto can help prevent this. I will be 20 years old in a few months. I was worried about this and started questioning whether my own hairline was receding... I actually pulled out old photos. Luckily, it was just my imagination, and I havent had any noticeable changes in hairline or hair density. Nevertheless, in addition to proper nutrition and a pretty complex stack, I was wondering if there is anything I should take at this stage in my life.

Would Saw Palmetto be a good choice? The LEF has a combination product with a whole bunch of stuff. http://www.lef.org/n...s/item00975.htm I was thinking maybe I could take a half dose of it, if all the ingredients check out, and if a half dose would have any effect. Are all the ingredients safe? Safe for my age? Are they effective?

Thoughts?

[EmbraceUnity]

I read that it inhibits conversion of Testosterone to DHT, which actually might increase testosterone. However many secondary sex characteristics are linked to DHT, but muscle growth is not. Acne is also linked to DHT, and I have minor acne problems every once in awhile, so that would be doubly good, but I think my supplements have helped in this area... and just getting older.

[Matt]

Mild calorie restriction and good nutrition would probably help delay or prevent it.

[edward]

The key here from what i have read is the inhibition of Testosterone conversion to DHT, I'm betting on Saw Palmetto. If one wanted to get a little more extreme and specific, topical Ketoconazole applied in the form of Nizoral shampoo or prescription varieties has been shown to enter the blood stream particularly at the point of contact (the scalp) where it is needed most to prevent the conversion of Testosterone to DHT. I don't think I will have a problem in the baldness area due to my lab results, genetic/family history but if I do see a problem I will immediately begin Ketoconazole.

[sUper GeNius]

I take finasteride. My dad and both brothers are bald. I have a full bushy head of hair!

[FunkOdyssey]

I would be wary of inhibiting DHT systemically from a quality-of-life standpoint. 5-alpha reductase inhibitors can reduce libido, cause erectile dysfunction, gynecomastia, depression, and more. It is somewhat akin to chemical castration. In almost all tissues besides skeletal muscle, the androgenic effects of testosterone are mediated by its conversion to DHT. With regard to prostate health, the real culprit in older men's issues seems to be a high estrogen / androgen ratio.

Even if I were genetically predisposed to male-pattern baldness, I would not go any further than a topical agent like Nizoral.

[sentinel]

Is there any downside to using propecia as it seems to only have a minor impact in the way of reducing postive testosterone ie muscle growth and sex drive, and is obviously used to treat enlarged prostates? Also it actually helps with regrowth of recent hair loss not just prevention.

Christ! I sound like an Ad!

Sentinel

[sUper GeNius]

I would be wary of inhibiting DHT systemically from a quality-of-life standpoint.  5-alpha reductase inhibitors can reduce libido, cause erectile dysfunction, gynecomastia, depression, and more.  It is somewhat akin to chemical castration.  In almost all tissues besides skeletal muscle, the androgenic effects of testosterone are mediated by its conversion to DHT.  With regard to prostate health, the real culprit in older men's issues seems to be a high estrogen / androgen ratio.

Even if I were genetically predisposed to male-pattern baldness, I would not go any further than a topical agent like Nizoral.

I'll take the risk. Actually the risk are VERY VERY low. I am probably taking more risks by taking all the other supplements that I do. Gotta skoot. Have to go run the brush through my curly locks 100 times...

[luv2increase]

Baldness is hereditary through the mother's side. The fact that both your brother's are bald is not a good sign though.

I don't remember if it was on this board or mindandmuscle, but there is a new laser out that helps regrow hair. Here is one link of many. http://hairloss.abou.../b/a/256354.htm

It seems it only works on areas where there is 'some' hair left.

I guess you should keep doing what you are doing with supplementation and stay away from 'androgenic steroids'. When baldness arises, if it does, get your hands on the laser comb. There is also instructions floating around on how to make your own laser comb if you want to save some money.

Good luck!

[krillin]

I don't remember if it was on this board or mindandmuscle, but there is a new laser out that helps regrow hair.  Here is one link of many.  http://hairloss.abou.../b/a/256354.htm

LEDs of the same wavelength as the laser should be just as good. Elixa.com sells arrays of them for less than $100.

[tintinet]

Well, male pattern baldness (MPB)/androgenetic alopecia is dependent upon multiple genes with variable penetrance (i.e., there ain't no knowing if you'll be bald and yer brother 'll be hairy!).

If yer susceptible to androgenetic allopecia (MPB).

Finesteride helps. Dutasteride is likely better, but certainly more costly.

Topical agents (RU######, spironolactone, ketoconazole, etc.) may help also.



Finesteride, at least, is a "selective" inhibitor of the enzyme systems that convert testosterone to DHT, so like will have less impact on other areas (libido, muscle development, etc.).

Flax Lignans: Cure for hair loss?

Source: Journal of American Dietetic Association 105(5):743-60 (2005)

Source: www.acatris.com

A pilot study carried out by Dutch company Acatris, suggests that taking flax lignans could put an end to baldness.

Jocelyn Mathern, Technical Specialist at Acatris, said that androgenetic alopecia (AGA), the most common from of hair loss, is a hormonal as well as a genetic issue effecting around 50 per cent of men aged 50 years old or older.

“A potent form of the male hormone testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), can get inside hair follicles and cause them to shrink and produce thinner hair and eventually none at all,” said Mathern.

The main flax lignan, secoisolariciresinol diglucoside (SDG), can help prevent this by inhibiting production of the enzyme that converts testosterone into DHT, called 5-alpha reductase.

The study took place at a health company in Taiwan over a six-month period. Ten male sufferers of androgenetic alopecia aged between 20 and 70 years received a 50mg daily dose of SDG.

The condition of their hair was documented at the beginning of the study by photographs and the men measured their hair loss throughout the period by counting the number of hairs on their pillows each morning.

Initial effects of the flax lignans were noticed on average one to two months into the study. At the end of the period, eight of the participants reported a modest improvement in their hair loss condition, one reported a great improvement and one reported no effect at all. The more severe the participant's hair loss was at the start of the trial, the more noticeable the improvement. Half the subjects also noted decreased oil secretion in their scalp. No adverse effects were reported.

“This pilot study confirms earlier research on flax lignans with respect to their promise in the care of AGA and without the sometimes harmful effects of a prescription medication,” said Mathern.

Result's from the pilot study indicate that Acatris will be sponsoring a clinical trial at a research centre in Maastricht, The Netherlands, later this year.

[greece]

No supplement can fight androgenetic alopecia (not even saw palmetto, flax lignan (SDG), beta sitosterol etc.). I tried all of them at past...
The most effective ingredients are all drugs :
Finasteride/Dutasteride, minoxidil, ketoconazole, copper peptides, spironolactone, retin-A.
As FunkOdyssey said 5-alpha reductase inhibitors like Finasteride/Dutasteride may give many sides but unfortunately it's the only way to fight androgenetic alopecia.

I'm two years on Dutasteride, minoxidil, ketoconazole, copper peptides, retin-A. I maintain my hair and have some regrowth.

[saxiephon]

This may just be a cure for us who have hair loss:

Cure for Baldness Linked to WNT Gene
By JulieAnn
A study was posted in the on-line journal, Nature Technology, May 17 revealing that hair follicles contain ``blank slate'' stem cells. These stem cells were able to generate hair growth.

A gene known as WNT was discovered while experimenting with laboratory mice. This gene is believed to help stimulate and regrow hair follicles.

For many years, scientists from the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, have been researching wound healing. What they found shocked them.

Removing the epidermis layer from small sections of laboratory mice, stimulated stem cell activity. This new activity actually produced new hair follicles.
The human hair follicle has always thought to die and never regrow. In the mice, the hair follicles grew back.

Further research revealed the gene WNT. Scientists discovered that suppressing this gene also suppressed hair follicle growth. Adding a booster of WNT, produced even more hair.

Dr George Cotsarelis revealed the hair that grew back was white. He joked that maybe one could dye it. The hair was very healthy and thick. This showed the follicle to be healthy, as well.

Dr Cotsarelis and his team transplanted healthy cells onto new mice. It showed, in the experiment, that the cells produced hair. Along with the hair came the follicles, epidermis and sebaceous glands.

What is exciting about this discovery is this is confirmation. In 2004, Elaine Fuchs' scientist team at Rockefeller University, also was able to label the cells. They used a different approach, with the same results. Two separate teams coming up with the same conclusion, give cause to validity.

Cotsarelis says that he is just in the beginning stages of this new break-through. He did state in an interview on CNN today, that he is working with a small company for testing. When asked how long it would be for a product to reach market, Cotsarelis said they hope to begin human testing within a year.

Application would be as simple as a topical protein added to the scalp after skin preparation.

The discovery of the WNT gene opens up further research into wound healing and regeneration.

Two products on the market today, Rogaine and Propecia, each have approximately $100 million a year in sales. Neither one was designed to treat baldness. Hair growth was discovered to be a side affect of the treatment of hypertension and enlarged prostates.

[doug123]

"It's not a bald spot, it's a solar panel for this sex machine"

I got that from here. [thumb] Funny!

[Gerald W. Gaston]

Greece, What ever happened with your liver panel? IIRC you thought Dut had done you in.

From your name and avatar, I assume you are the same Greece from HLH and Regrowth.

[greece]

Greece, What ever happened with your liver panel? IIRC you thought Dut had done you in.

From your name and avatar, I assume you are the same Greece from HLH and Regrowth.

Yes, I'm the same person.
Two years ago I started to take a huge amount of supps. It seems that I have a sensitive liver so some of these supps
(like green tea and flax lignan at these huge amount) affected badly to my liver. Now I'm more wise so things are OK
In any case Dut is a bad factor for the liver...

[kaladar]

Hey folks;

I'll share my experiences in trying to retain my feathers :-)

My father and his brother both lost most of their hair by the time they were 4o years old. They had the classic thinning at the temples that progressed until only a small tuft was left at the front followed by the thinning of the hair at the crown which quickly merged with the temple thinning.

This same pattern affected both my brother and I but we have drastically differing end results due to some steps that I took to fight back.

Despite the fact that my brother is 3 years younger than I and that I did start thinning in my early 30's (I'm 41 now)... I have much more hair than he does... as a matter of fact, most people would say I have a pretty good head of hair.

Here's the differance...
> When I started thinning at the temples, before it got too bad - I had a hair transplant that focused on the temple areas. It was a great decision as no-one noticed that I had the transplant because the new hair simply thickened out what I still had there. I've noticed since then that the area has gotten thinner, but like I said, it's still pretty darned good.
> I also started taking Finasteride. I take it in the Proscar format which is the cheaper option than going with the version specifically targeted at male pattern baldness. The differance is that rather than getting pills with a 1.25mg dosage, the Proscar comes in 5mg tablets and you need to cut them into quarters yourself. The cost savings is significant doing it this way. I still pay about $60cdn for a 100 day supply.
>Lastly, I use a Minoxidil topical solution (2%) that I apply to my crown at least once a day. Again I use the generic version which costs about $40 Cdn for a 1 month supply.

The result is that my brother is rapidly approaching full fledged chrome dome status while I have no bald spots at all on my head. My crown is thinning but still pretty thick and I'm not sure if it's thinning because my 1 - 2 punch is no longer working or because I'm not real religious about renewing my subscriptions - I'll take them for a 6 months and then forget to refill the subscription for 1 or 2 months.

Bottom-line... is that I've enjoyed a good head of hair for much longer than I would have otherwise and I'm very pleased about it.

I hope my experiences and insights are helpful.

Best of luck!

[lucid]

I have heard that scalp massage helps strengthen hair follicles and prevents hair loss. Maybe its an old wives tale though.

[EmbraceUnity]

How often should Nizoral be used? The bottle recommends once every 3-4 days for dandruff treatment, but that is not my goal.

[JLL]

I'd say every other day, if your scalp can tolerate it. It can be pretty drying.

[wiserd]

I've had some hair loss and researched this topic pretty thoroughly.

1. Weight training plus fat increases testosterone and decreases Sex Hormone Binding Globulin. Less SHBG is bad since it means more Testosterone converted into DHT. It's okay to have high testosterone as long as it's bound. So avoid a high fat diet.

2. Aerobic exercise increases SHBG and decreases testosterone. So does mild calorie restriction, as mentioned previously.

3. Saw palmetto is a type I and type II 5Alpha reductase inhibitor. Finesteride and propecia only inhibit one type of 5Alpha reductase. Also, saw palmetto doesn't interfere with PSA secretion. I've tried both finesteride and saw palmetto. The effects of saw palmetto are much milder. Finesteride had terrible sexual side effects for me for about a month after I took it.

4. Reduce stress. A little acid-neutral vitamin C and B-vitamin complex every few hours can help. You only need a tiny fraction of most vitamin B pills, just a sprinkling of powder in water. This is speculation on my part, based on the fact that this mix can help with stress and stress can contribute to lower SHBG and higher DHT.

5. Keep your scalp clean, especially if it's oily. Avoid yeasts in particular. Ketoconozole is great stuff in terms of effectiveness, but can cause liver problems in the very long term.

6. The Chinese herb Ho Shou Wu is known for preventing hair loss in traditional chinese medicine. Actual herbs from China are typically crap quality, though. A few have actually made me sick. Ho Shou Wu contains resveratrol-like compounds. So there's some (tradition based) reason to believe that resveratrol might help prevent hair loss. I can't find a pubmed cite to support this, though.

7. The follicles in a bald scalp are senescent. They are physically aged. You can 'regrow' about 6 months of hair since hair grows in cycles and sleeping follicles can still be protected. But short of stem cell technology or plugs, there doesn't seem to be a way to actually reverse balding.

8. Avoid those things which increase aging; mold, inflammation, etc. This may be overdoing it, but a HEPA air filter provides reasonable health benefits relative to it's cost. It's probably of small benefit, but worth consideration.

9. While pumpkin seed extract is supposed to help breakdown DHT I don't know if it has any actual effect on hairloss. Furthermore, if you try it make sure to get an extract. There's so much oil in pumpkin seeds that they did me more harm than good.

[hamishm00]

When I was 31 (I am now 33) I started to notice serious thinning across the scalp.

I now have recovered almost all (I have a few stubborn spots where the sweat glands are, but they are now thickening) of my hair thickness, plus my hair is darker than its ever been in my life.

My 2 year programme (which I still am running with) is as follows:

1. Use Nisim Shampoo (wash massage, rinse, wash massage, rinse once or twice a day) + Nisim Herbal Extract (twice a day, massing 30 seconds into scalp, not rubbing). I added some saw palmetto extract into the herbal extract mix - about 10-20 drops.

2. Minoxidil 5% twice daily - I started using this at month 16 to work on the hard spots.

3. Omega 3 supplementation. 8 grams daily of fish oil.

It took 16 months for the Nisim to do its job to the point I would say I am 99% satisfied. From month 16 to month 24, even with the minoxidil, the progress on the spots that are slightly thinner than the rest has been slow, but positive. I think another year and it will be done.

There is no overnight cure, but I think I have one that works.

[FreakyWired]

Everyones reation to finasteride aka. propecia is different. You should try it yourself to see how you handle it. If you have side effects (most likely low libido) stop and things will return to normal in a couple of days.

Right now is the most effective proven baldness treatment. You can try using Nizoral and herbal treatments alone but you may have unsatisfactory results. I started on Nizoral and 1mg generic finasteride (finpecia) daily, both DHT inhibitors and have maintained my hairline from when I started, the side effects have been minor if anything. Before starting I had aggressive hairloss plus all my male relatives were bald by 30.

Btw, the longer you wait to get started the less hair you'll have to maintain. Major hair regrowth using supplements/pharms is next to impossible, when caused by regular MPB.

Edited by FreakyWired, 24 September 2008 - 07:06 PM.

[aikikai]

Could resveratrol protect against hair loss?

Resveratrol protects auditory hair cells from gentamicin toxicity.
Bonabi S, Caelers A, Monge A, Huber A, Bodmer D.

Department of Otorhinolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery, University Hospital Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland. Sharouz.bonabi@usz.ch

Resveratrol is a naturally occurring polyphenol that is synthesized by a variety of plant species. It is abundant in grapes and grape products (e.g., red wine). Resveratrol has demonstrated reactive oxygen species (ROS) scavenger activity, and it has been linked to nuclear factor-kappa B (NF-kappaB) activity. We recently demonstrated that NF-kappaB is important to the survival of immature mammalian hair cells. Therefore, we undertook an in vitro experiment to determine if resveratrol is able to exert some protective influence against gentamicin-induced damage to and death of auditory hair cells. To accomplish this, we dissected the organ of Corti (OC) from newborn Sprague-Dawley rats and cultured the OCs in medium overnight for recovery. We treated two groups of OC explants with different concentrations of resveratrol plus gentamicin for 24 hours; for comparison and control purposes, we also treated a group of explants with gentamicin only and we left a group untreated. We found that resveratrol in both concentrations had a moderate but statistically significant protective effect against gentamicin-induced toxicity in vitro.

PMID: 18833534 [PubMed - in process]

Saw Palmetto seems to work as a treatment for hair loss (a lot of people have been negative about saw palmetto saying that it doesn't work):

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial to determine the effectiveness of botanically derived inhibitors of 5-alpha-reductase in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia.
Prager N, Bickett K, French N, Marcovici G.

Clinical Research and Development Network, Aurora, CO, USA.

BACKGROUND: Androgenetic alopecia (AGA) is characterized by the structural miniaturization of androgen-sensitive hair follicles in susceptible individuals and is anatomically defined within a given pattern of the scalp. Biochemically, one contributing factor of this disorder is the conversion of testosterone (T) to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) via the enzyme 5-alpha reductase (5AR). This metabolism is also key to the onset and progression of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). Furthermore, AGA has also been shown to be responsive to drugs and agents used to treat BPH. Of note, certain botanical compounds have previously demonstrated efficacy against BPH. Here, we report the first example of a placebo-controlled, double-blind study undertaken in order to examine the benefit of these botanical substances in the treatment of AGA. OBJECTIVES: The goal of this study was to test botanically derived 5AR inhibitors, specifically the liposterolic extract of Serenoa repens (LSESr) and beta-sitosterol, in the treatment of AGA. Subjects: Included in this study were males between the ages of 23 and 64 years of age, in good health, with mild to moderate AGA. RESULTS: The results of this pilot study showed a highly positive response to treatment. The blinded investigative staff assessment report showed that 60% of (6/10) study subjects dosed with the active study formulation were rated as improved at the final visit. CONCLUSIONS: This study establishes the effectiveness of naturally occurring 5AR inhibitors against AGA for the first time, and justifies the expansion to larger trials.

PMID: 12006122 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Edited by aikikai, 26 October 2008 - 07:21 AM.

[renwosing]

Nothing works except RU58841.

RU58841 works, hands down.

Google it for more info.

A good 20g of it, will last you thru 2 months. Within 1 month or so, you will definitely see visible results.

Anybody here interested in acquiring some, PM me.

Renwosing

[wiserd]

Could resveratrol protect against hair loss?

Yes. Ho Shou Wu (polygonum multiflorum) is a chinese herb with resveratrol-like compounds. It is used in Chinese medicine to prevent hair loss and loss of hair color.

[Mind]

Signaling Protein Ephrin-A3 Grows New Hair Follicles and Thicker Hair (in Mice)

[JLL]

I've seen some studies suggesting that superoxide dismutase (SOD) increases hair growth. Both black tea and green tea increase SOD activity - for once, black tea is more effective than green tea.

Also, topical green tea grows hair in cultured human follicles and seems to do so in real human scalps as well.

[ajnast4r]

i believe DHT related problems(hair, acne, prostate) are related to high density of androgen receptors with an affinity for DHT in said tissue... not necessarily high serum levels of DHT.

this product is worth checking out if youre losing your hair:
http://www.divineski...DNC/default.asp