142 replies to this topic

[maxhealthback]

Anthony,
Evidently you are taking full advantage of the well known fact that I have not visited this forum or read any of the postings on it for several months. Frankly, I have been occupied in more essential endeavors, such as running a company. According to several of my customers who sent me emails to ask about the issue, you have stated that I threatened to sue you if you posted price information regarding our products. This is hogwash and you are quite aware of it. In fact, I advised you that the price information you had posted on your site for our products was not accurate; it understated the amount of resveratrol and therefore the price per mg was inflated. I stated to you in an email, which I retained, that I would take legal action if you MISREPRESENTED our products and proceeded in good faith to answer several further emails you sent to me requesting information regarding Bioforte. One more comment before I end this post. Price is meaningless without a proper and honest comparison of the relative quality of the products being compared. I am about to get on a plane so must be brief in this posting however I will elaborate on this issue and some others as soon as I get back to my office. James Betz -- Managing Director Biotivia Ltd.

Edited by brainbox, 13 August 2007 - 03:43 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi James, this was posted earlier:

Post 18 on page http://www.imminst.o...6&t=15059&st=60

After your answers to my emails, I believe you mentioned your labels were in the process of changing as well. From the post below, you can see how I initially could not represent the product on the list. On one end you say I grossly misrepresented it, and on the other (when looking at your label and documents online) I could not understand how it was misrepresented at all. I concluded that I would wait for your new labels as your formulation must have changed.

I haven't seen new labels, and concluded that you would continue to send me emails regarding legal action if your prices were posted with my previous conclusions.

Thank you for the reply!
I can see that yours is cheaper. And it is exactly the same merchandise as biotivia?, but it also makes sense because biotiva have an expensive Google advertisement. Is it many guys here in the forum who orders from your company?

Hi again,

I used to think biotivia had the same type of powder that we have, and the label on their site used to be easy to read regarding content. The label has disappeared from their site recently, or at least I can't find it anywhere anymore.

To add to this, I received an email this morning from biotivia:
==============================================
Dear Anthony,
Please be advised that you grossly misrepresent our product on the
comparison chart on your site. Specifically our product contains 500
mg of total resveratrol, of which 250mg is trans-resveratrol. Please
correct this error immediately or we shall seek legal recourse, as we
have against other companies which have misrepresented our product.
Regards, James

cc. Kenneth , Quin and Hampson Barristers
Anne Devereau
Roger Day
==============================================

To that effect, I have taken out these products from the list at this point as we are reviewing it.

As I read the email, I became confused as to the powder used in the biotivia product. If what the email says is true, I don't believe they are using the same powder we use at RevGenetics.

It is my understanding that the capsules are 500mg, see pdf on link below from their website:
http://www.biotivia....thenticity1.pdf

Weight: 595 mg +/- 5%
Content of trans-resveratrol: NLT 250 mg/cap

If what the email says is correct, and we subtract say 95mg for the weight of the capsule itself, we can deduce that they are using close to pure 100% Resveratrol in each capsule. I then re-read the pdf, and find the coloring in the document states that the powder is colored "light green".

I have not seen 98% powder to be light green in color. (or even 99% for that fact...)

If the what the email states is correct, the resveratrol powder that biotivia uses is unlike what I have seen before, and may fall under the FDA "Investigational New Drug" guidelines.

Having said that, I go to another webpage at the site, to see how they compare to other brands:
http://www.biotivia....te/compbiof.php

At this location I see that the content stated is:
250mg Trans-Resveratrol, and a statement that says Cis-Resveratrol is less than 5%. In my head I am suddenly confused. How can a 500mg Resveratrol capsule contain 250mg of Trans-Resveratrol & at the most 25mg of Cis-resveratrol be considered pure resveratrol? I am not sure what the other 225mg of powder constitutes.

I am confused now, can someone help clear this up?

I have emailed biotivia to see if the label has moved to another location on their site to see if it actually says Resveratrol of which 50% is tran-resveratrol. I hope to get an answer soon.

If they are selling 100% Resveratrol, it will be a boon for this forum and it's members.
But for now, I am not sure what kind of powder this is, so I am leaving it off the list for now, until we can have it cleared up.

Thanks
Anthony Loera

[maxhealthback]

Buying resveratrol in raw powder form is playing Russian roulette with your health. Product which is sold by reputable suppliers in capsules if far more than just a convenience. The entire quality control and testing process for a supplement is done at the encapsulation facility. Suppliers who sell raw material and characterize it as a finished product are bypassing the testing process and all of the normal quality control processes which are required to be performed in a US FDA GMP certified processing plant. There is far more to producing a quality resveratrol product than simply pouring raw polygonum cuspidatum into a cheap generic bottle and selling it. A legitimate supplier will have HPLC test facilities on premises, employ trained process technicians, maintain an elaborate quality control regimen approved by the local and national health authorities and monitored and audited on a regular basis, subject his product to government standards office registration, register with the FDA, maintain complete samples and records of each batch shipped, use quality capsules such as Pfizer Vcaps, process under a nitrogen gas environment in a sterile clean room with proper air filtration and ventilation systems, package their product in a quality, non-porous PET bottle with double seals and filled with inert nitrogen gas and much more.

If you buy raw powder from a non US FDA GMP provider you have absolutely no assurance of quality; in fact is it quite the opposite;you can be assured that you will not receive a quality, inspected, tested, registered finished product. You have no way of determining proper dose, the powder is exposed to the atmosphere, environmental contaminants, and moisture since there is no capsule to protect it. You really have no idea of the purity, potency, freshness, or safety of your product. If you want to leave all of this to wishful thinking just to save a small amount than that is your decision. James Betz -- Managing Director Biotivia, a US FDA registered, UK/EU certified, GMP-Certified supplier of quality botanical raw materials and finished products for 15 years.

[Anthony_Loera]

I agree with you James on most items in that last post, but as a buyer (customer) I would want a third part testing the powder instead of doing it on site.

Most folks who have voiced their opinions to me here want a 3rd part (with no horse in the race...) to HPLC test the resveratrol.

Good stuff. So James... Can you let me know which products I can post on the list here? If you can post price, and resveratrol content of each product and help me with your new labels or COA, I will update the price list to help the forum members.

thanks
Anthony Loera

[psychenaut]

Hmmm, CoA's and documented products... I like this thread [g:)]

As most of you know, Relentless Improvement (Imminst long-time sponsor) has always provided public 3rd party CoA's on all RI brand high-quality supplements. The CoA's are generated from a random, sealed, finished product (encapsulated/bottled) sample, and are tied directly to the product that customers receive by way of lot number (the lot # on the CoA matches the lot # of the product that we ship).

This has been the case since the first Relentless Improvement product in early 2005. I don't know of another supplier in the world that goes to this extreme level of documenting their product quality and claims as we do.

Those enjoying a long-term and/or high-dose supplement lifestyle, will value knowing that products they use have 3rd party purity credentials.

The new 300mg 98% Resveratrol product that we recently added now has its documentation. You can view the public CoA, and all the others, at the Relentless Improvement "Learn" page.

This is a direct link to the RI brand Resveratrol, manufactured in a FDA approved, cGMP facility. Please note the automatic quantity discounts listed on the bottom of the page.

There are certainly good quality suppliers that don't go to the degree we do. However, there are also those that claim "Pharmaceutical Grade" on their labels that have never had a 3rd party test and can provide no customer assurance as to the purity of their products. A consumer would be well advised to beware of these businesses.

Anthony- I have to tell you that I greatly respect the objective and fair nature of your participation on this forum, and your willingness to maintain full public disclosure of who you are and the business you represent. Given ImmInst's history of nefarious supplement business owners hiding their marketing activities behind sock-puppet posts or posing as doctors, it is a refreshing change. Kudos to you.

Cheers,
Pete

[maxwatt]

Hmmm, CoA's and documented products... I like this thread [g:)]

As most of you know, Relentless Improvement (Imminst long-time sponsor) has always provided public 3rd party CoA's on all RI brand high-quality supplements. The CoA's are generated from a random, sealed, finished product (encapsulated/bottled) sample, and are tied directly to the product that customers receive by way of lot number (the lot # on the CoA matches the lot # of the product that we ship).

This has been the case since the first Relentless Improvement product in early 2005. I don't know of another supplier in the world that goes to this extreme level of documenting their product quality and claims as we do.

Those enjoying a long-term and/or high-dose supplement lifestyle, will value knowing that products they use have 3rd party purity credentials.

The new 300mg 98% Resveratrol product that we recently added now has its documentation. You can view the public CoA, and all the others, at the Relentless Improvement "Learn" page.

This is a direct link to the RI brand Resveratrol, manufactured in a FDA approved, cGMP facility. Please note the automatic quantity discounts listed on the bottom of the page.

.....
Cheers,
Pete

The plate count looks a little high; nothing to be alarmed at, still well below the FDA limits for raw lettuce, say, but higher than one would expect to see for a sterile product produced by ethanol extraction, as is resveratrol from P. cuspidatum. I've had samples test at 10 cfu/g, and at 1000 cfu/g. (Maybe I coughed taking he sample?) Possible confounding factors are the testing method and incubation period, or handling while the sample was taken from the batch, or in the lab.

This is not a criticism, merely an observation; these are excellent test results. This is "the real deal." FWIW, Anthony's products have tested as well.

[maxwatt]

.....

Maxwatt- thanks for your comments and context you provided. The plate count is a result of the rice flour excipient used to make this a vegetarian product. The 98% resveratrol material is itself sterile.

Pete

Methinks your COA referred to 98% resveratrol extract alone, not to resveratrol plus excipient. The excipient solves the problem of getting the powder to flow into the capsules, rather than everywhere else.

Lack of sterility isn't a problem with your material according to the COA. You're still a hundred times under what the FDA defines as safe limits for food. I can recommend it to those I know who want encapsulated 98%, as well as Anthony's Revgenetics capsules. Getting the daily cost of a high dose low enough for the average person is laudable.

[maxhealthback]

In the four months since I allowed my membership
in this forum to expire it seems that my critics
and competitors have used my absence as an
opportunity to post some critical and, in some cases
regrettably, false information regarding me, my
company and our products knowing that I would not
read or respond to these posts. I have neither
the time nor the interest in addressing each such
post except to respectfully request readers to seriously
consider the motives and objectives of the person
involved, mine included. Are they competitors or
shills for competitors, what are their relevant
credentials and experience, etc? We have
thousands of very happy customers who re order
from us on a regular basis. These people have
more pressing things to do than spend their time
posting on forums. However many of them have
volunteered to support me by doing so if they can
help to refute some of the rubbish that a small,
and, I believe, clearly biased number of members
have repeatedly posted. Thank you to the members
who have taken the initiative to report their
positive experiences regarding our products.
Unfortunately most people are understandably
reluctant to engage the aggressive critics in a petty
debate as they have no compelling reason to do so.

One issue that I would like to address is our history of
delivery of product to buyers. When we introduced
our high-potency Bioforte we were overwhelmed
with orders, and I am the first one to admit that
we bungled the job of communicating the status of
orders with quite a few buyers and, more importantly,
actually getting the orders fulfilled promptly. This is
not something I am proud of; however to
compensate those involved we spent over
$50,000 sending out free product to the buyers
who were inconvenienced.

For the past five months, we have delivered
virtually every order worldwide within one week.
All of our orders ship the same or next day. We
maintain inventory at our fulfillment centers in
Kansas City, Singapore, at Brighton outside of
London, in Austria, Spain and in S. Africa. In
the US we retain Innovative Fulfillment Solutions
to handle all deliveries. They are a professional
and independent organisation who will attest to
our timely delivery of orders.

Product quality is an issue about which I and my
staff are obsessive and relentless. One can not
make compromises on a product that is consumed by
one's fellow humans.

A member on this forum boasts of having
the lowest price per mg for his product. We
prefer to offer extremely good value and the
highest quality rather than the lowest cost. My
research scientist, Dr. Saurabh Shah, recently
purchased a bottle of product from this supplier.
Let me report his observations.

First, before even opening the container is was
apparent that the bottle itself was the cheapest,
generic, soft, permeable, polyethylene bottle
available. The label was evidently printed on a
home printer, judging from the quality of the
paper and the print. The industry standard for
all pharmaceutical products, on the other hand,
is a much higher quality recyclable non-permeable
hard, dense PET or glass bottle. There are very
good reasons for using these more costly bottles.

Upon removing the non child-proof cap loose
powder was visible inside the bottle. This is
symptomatic of low quality capsules which do not
properly seal in their contents and/or capsules
which were not filled in a quality processing
facility. There was no desiccant pack in the
bottle to absorb moisture. The capsules
themselves appeared to be size 00 hard gelatin
caps, much larger than the largest standard
capsule used in the supplement and pharma
industries, i.e. the size 0 capsule. Anything
larger than size 0 is very difficult to swallow
and is not used by any major pharmaceutical or
supplement provider to my knowledge because it
can cause choking and subjects the supplier to
serious liability issues. I doubt that product liability
coverage would be avaiable to anyone using this capsule.
Most processors do not even maintain the dies for their
capsule filling machines required to fill this size capsule.
It is inadvisable to use a capsule this large as the contents
tend to clump together over time and upon exposure to
liquid and when taken pass straight through the stomach and
intestines rather than being dispersed and absorbed.
Using a higher concentration Polygonum is a more
costly alternative but one which would allow use
of a smaller capsule.

Dr. Shah then removed the contents of 10 capsules
and examined them under a 50 power microscope for
physical particle size and consistency. It was
obvious that the material was simply unprocessed
raw polygonum cs that had not even gone through a
standard process grinder to insure a fine (preferably
no larger than 40 to 50 grid) and consistent particle size.
This material only passed entirely through a 100 grid lab sieve.
This may seem trivial however it is actually quite
important as bio availability is highly dependent
upon a small and uniform particle size. Shah will
analyze the material for trans-resveratrol
content as well as biologicals and heavy metals
and I will post these results, whatever they turn
out to be, in a later post. We will also post the
test method data and reference sample chromatogram
for verification of the validity of the results.

The point I am attempting to make is that price
is a meaningless metric unless the products being
compared are of equal quality. In the past six to
nine months a number of entities have set
themselves up as resveratrol suppliers who have,
in fact, no prior experience in manufacturing
bioceuticals, OTC products or medicines; have no
other products; employ no scientists; have no
quality-control procedures, no in-house testing
facilities, and no GMP-certified processing
facilities, or no processing facilities at all.
These companies take advantage of the fact that
if one does not import their finished product
into the US but instead simply fills capsules,
purchased in a pharmacy, in small batches using a
manual capsule filler, that the FDA and state
health authorities can be bypassed entirely Most
of their buyers will assume that they are
purchasing from a legitimate manufacturer. These
entities have no product liability insurance as
underwriters will not insure them and operate under
the radar of regulatory agencies. The recently
published FDA GMP rule will make this practice
illegal. Only certified GMP producers will be
allowed to sell dietary supplements in the US. We
filed a comment with the FDA in support of this
rule during the proposed rule making comment period.

One more comment regarding price. Biotivia hereby
offers all members of this forum our quality products
at the same or lower price on a product for product
basis than our competition sells their corresponding
product. Please send me a private email for details.

For those of you who managed to make it through this
tiring and verbose post I am most grateful.

James Betz,

Managing Director - Biotivia Ltd.

[Anthony_Loera]

Thanks James for the post,

I have some questions about your product, as my previous posts have not been answered. Send me a PM if you prefer, as this forum is for pricing, and I would like to know what products of yours I can post on the price list.

I appreciate the fact that you promote GMP, but not sure about "Importing a finished product" being the only way folks get a good product, many products manufactured in the United States follow GMP directives as well... Also, I have told by others that they may have questions about importing a product in to the US, and what extra customs fees have been paid for a resveratrol product.

Maybe we need to move this discussion to a new post, as I believe this very interesting discussion will take this thread way out on a tangent that is not appropriate to pricing. We can probably also discuss the gelatin capsules vs Vegetarian capsules issue you bring up (I personally prefer and use Pfizer made vegetarian capsules for our products instead of the hard gelatin capsules you mentioned the other company has.), and the greater issue of how 'finished product' imports from one country maybe cheaper, and how does US and International law view liability regarding an international company, etc.

I believe these are great discussions we can have and dig into, as I have lots to say on the subject.

Please make a new post with this discussion to discuss the different comments you bring up in your post.

thanks
Anthony Loera

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 13 August 2007 - 02:48 PM.

[Brainbox]

Maybe we need to move this discussion to a new post.

There you are...

[Anthony_Loera]

thanks brainbox! We were certainly getting away from the pricing thread.

[Anthony_Loera]

ok, lets talk about international Liability....

I am no expert, but it seems to me that a company outside of the USA, that is in the EU needs liability insurance that covers cyberspace, not all liability insurers will do this. Now that's good for the business, for the customer having an issue with an international company... it gets complicated.

Foreign suits often involve complex jurisdictional issues and are costly for a U.S. customer or business.

Most regular folks buy locally because of merchant guarantees, easy access, (sometimes language barriers) and decent quality they can check here at home.

Their is a possibility of international issues regarding a $30-$200 product that was shipped overseas, that ends up broken when it arrives. The cost of recourse for something like that for the average consumer is simply too high, and deters most folks from ordering from international businesses.

What do you think about the difficulty for customers regarding international orders? Do you currently have a shipping warehouse in NY, or is it an office?

Regarding quality... It has been impressed upon me by the community here, that third party testing by a US facility is important, rather than by a chinese or international facility they can't verify. I believe you have an internal testing facility in Malaysia that tests your products at this time, what benefits would you say you provide to those who believe that a 3rd party testing is better than having an internal facility?

thanks
Anthony

[maxwatt]

.....
What do you think about the difficulty for customers regarding international orders? Do you currently have a shipping warehouse in NY, or is it an office?

Regarding quality... It has been impressed upon me by the community here, that third party testing by a US facility is important, rather than by a chinese or international facility they can't verify. I believe you have an internal testing facility in Malaysia that tests your products at this time, what benefits would you say you provide to those who believe that a 3rd party testing is better than having an internal facility?

thanks
Anthony

Anthony: He said he has a fulfillment center in Kansas City; his US orders would be shipped from there.

[Anthony_Loera]

Ahh.. I was looking at his website, I didn't see that. Thanks for clearing that up.

Looks good to me then. I guess the other questions are still relevant. Was the Kansas address at the website? I only saw a new york address.

thanks

Anthony

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 14 August 2007 - 12:57 AM.

[sUper GeNius]

Anthony,

Aren't you the "lowest price per gram" here?

[maxhealthback]

I have attached a copy of our label. The 500mg noted is, as required by the FDA, a statement of the net weight of the capsule, not the weight including the capsule. Pfizer size 0 cps weigh 91 mg each. This attachment is a low-resolution jpg not the high-quality Quark file used by our Printer.

The Kansas address is our fulfillment center. It is Innovative Fulfillment Solutions, ifssolutions.com and they warehouse our products. If you go to our order form at http://www.ifsecomme...pName=US Buyers you will find the phone number for this firm. We do not put their address on the site because they are not part of Biotivia, rather a contractor for us. We maintain approximately 10,000 bottles in our New York cold storage, not at the office address. This is kept for a specific customer to facilitate prompt replenishment.

To Tobar8: We are the lowest price manufacturer now. As I noted in my earlier post we guarantee that we will meet or beat any competitor whose products are equivalent to ours for all forum members.

We are happy to provide samples for anyone who wishes to submit our product to a third party lab. We do not use a lab in China, not sure where this comment came from, however there are some world class testing facilities in China as good as any in the EU or US.

Our lab uses the same Sigma reference samples as any other and we can provide chromatagraphs and test methods to validate our results. It is expensive to submit samples to "independent" labs for each of our batches when we produce over 15,000 bottles per day divided into batches of no more than 2500 bottles. Every time we export to the US the Singapore or relevant host govt. runs their own tests and we can only ship once these verify our specs. We must also pre notice the FDA and they have inspected our products twice over the past six months.

Biotivia Ltd, which sells products in the US, is a US company. Our parent is an EU/UK registered entity. Our liability insurance is double the standard amount as we sell to the US govt and one other buyer who require this. It is a US policy issued by a US company. Our EU coverage is entirely different and separate.

There are no customs fees on imported resveratrol products. No resveratrol product is actually manufactured in the US. 99% of all raw material is manufactured (extracted) in China. Manufacturing and processing are separate activities. What is important is that one deals with an extraction facility in China that he knows well and visits with qualified technicians unannounced to inspect at least every 60 to 90 days. Also even the best companies sometimes make mistakes and ship off-spec product. One must test multiple times to insure adequate quality is maintained. Out of 10 suppliers who send us samples, and we require a min. 2 kg sample, about 4 fail our tests and are rejected. We have seen high levels of arsenic, lead, cadmium, bacteria, fungi, dirt, hydrocarbons, and extraneous material in samples which were represented as meeting specs. The quality and specs issue is totally apart from the outright fraudsters such as Shaanxi Schphar Bio in Xi'An who not only sell rubbish but attempt to steal from their buyers as well. Equally important is where the raw material is processed and to what specifications. This does vary greatly from one facility to another.

As to GMP, one is either GMP certified or not GMP certified. There is no middle ground.

Attached Files

•  Label.jpg   336.53KB   107 downloads

[maxhealthback]

I see that the label file did not work out. If you go to http://www.biotivia....Label/Label.jpg you can see a better quality version of it. If you zoom in on it I believe the text will be quite clear. Sorry to waste members' time with this issue.

[maxhealthback]

One more comment and I will get back to work. COAs posted by the supplier on his own site done by a lab he organised on a sample he sent to them are absolutely meaningless. What is important is, to what extent the products being shipped by the supplier to customers actually comply with the specs noted on the label.

[Anthony_Loera]

Anthony,

Aren't you the "lowest price per gram" here?

according to the price sheet we are pretty darn low,

but we don't use the hard gelatin capsules that he mentions in the post. Since I believe an expert would now the difference, he must be talking about someone else. He also mentioned many other things, one clear one which our customers can verify was the statement... "Upon removing the non child-proof cap..." Anyone who has ordered from us knows we have always used child-proof caps from day one for all our products and have quality manufacturing.

I also believe maxwatt and a few others have verified the quality of powder we use as well...

So I give James the benefit of the doubt regarding his comments, and believe his expertise would not have had him make some obvious errors when talking about our products.

By the way James, I completely agree with your last post.

thanks
Anthony Loera

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 14 August 2007 - 03:41 PM.

[tintinet]

My system reports the label jpeg can't be viewed because it contains errors. Do you have label information and COA for the Transmax product?

Thanks

[wayside]

I could see it earlier, but the blurred text doesn't really say anything interesting.

The important part is clear - 500 mg resv, but only half is trans-resv.

[Anthony_Loera]

There is some interesting text in the label:
"Persons 10 or older should take 1 to 2 capsules daily in the morning with food..."

RevGenetics only recommends rsv for adults, having said that... was this text here because of a child study? I think I remember hearing about a study that had to do with infants or children, but I am not sure as it was related to me by a 3rd party and I didnt see it first hand.

It is just an interesting item as I have not seen this before for an rsv product, not really related to quality.



Thanks for the label James.

Anthony

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 14 August 2007 - 03:45 PM.

[sUper GeNius]

Hey James,

There's a misspelling on this page.

"Our Best Value Gaurentee"

http://www.biotivia....max/default.php

You want to hire me to proof read? Ain't got a PHD, but do own a copy of Word.

[steelheader]

What about the matter of Jame's label claiming 500 mg of resveratrol, 250 of which is trans-resvratrol?

Am I missing something? That makes no sense to me.

[PWAIN]

Ultimately, the question to me is if 250mg is trans resveratrol, what is the makeup of the other 250mg? Is it CIS resveratrol or something else?

[maxwatt]

My system reports the label jpeg can't be viewed because it contains errors. Do you have label information and COA for the Transmax product?

Thanks

Go up a level and view the parent directory, then download the target link; you can then open the jpeg image. (I thought you worked in IT? )

Apparently the only thing in the capsule is Polygonum cuspidatum extract; no fillers or excipients: "250 mg of the critical trans-resveratrol isomer."

[Anthony_Loera]

Maxwatt,

How would you list it in the price list?

A

[maxwatt]

I would list it as 250 mg trans-resveratrol.

[Anthony_Loera]

Ok,

the sheet has 3 columns that would need to be filled out:

The "Quality" column: usually has the purity (ie. 50%, 98%, 99%)
The Total Resveratrol: Generally has the total regardless of cis or trans
The Total Trans-resveratrol, which will of course state 250mg for this product.

My concern is the first 2 I mentioned... and it's where James and I (I believe) had the difference of opinion... Is it 500mg of Resveratrol with 50% Trans and 50% cis, or is it 500mg Polygonum cuspidatum with 50% purity of trans-resveratrol.

Or should I simply put questions marks on these? What do you all say guys?

A

[maxwatt]

it is 500 mg of 50% resveratrol extract
i would put quality at 50%, and leave total resveratrol as NA for "not available*", to avoid a lawsuit.