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Supplements for Cholesterol


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#1 shaggy

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 08:45 PM


Hi guys & girls

I've been viewing this forum for a while now and must say a big thank you to you all for all the information I've picked up a long the way. There truly is some very clued up people on this board!

I have a quick question I hope some of you people can help me with. What is the general consensus on supplements such as Red yeast rice, syntrinol, astaxanthin and policosanol for improving blood lipids?

I have recently dropped policosanol from my supplement arsenal as I've only ever seen positive reviews from Cuban trials, all the others I've seen show no effect. I'm also wondering whether supplements such as Cholestene and Syntrinol (which I still take) are also not worthwhile?

Thanks for any reples...

#2 Fredrik

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 09:06 PM

Hi,
just wanted to add this recent alert about unauthorized drugs in some Red yeast rice products.


http://www.fda.gov/b...7/NEW01678.html


FDA Warns Consumers to Avoid Red Yeast Rice Products Promoted on Internet as Treatments for High Cholesterol

Products found to contain unauthorized drug

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is warning consumers not to buy or eat three red yeast rice products promoted and sold on Web sites. The products may contain an unauthorized drug that could be harmful to health. The products are promoted as dietary supplements for treating high cholesterol.

The potentially harmful products are: Red Yeast Rice and Red Yeast Rice/Policosonal Complex, sold by Swanson Healthcare Products, Inc. and manufactured by Nature’s Value Inc. and Kabco Inc., respectively; and Cholestrix, sold by Sunburst Biorganics. FDA testing revealed the products contain lovastatin, the active pharmaceutical ingredient in Mevacor, a prescription drug approved for marketing in the United States as a treatment for high cholesterol.

“This risk is even more serious because consumers may not know the side effects associated with lovastatin and the fact that it can adversely interact with other medications," said Steven Galson, M.D., M.P.H., director of FDA's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research.

These red yeast rice products are a threat to health because the possibility exists that lovastatin can cause severe muscle problems leading to kidney impairment. This risk is greater in patients who take higher doses of lovastatin or who take lovastatin and other medicines that increase the risk of muscle adverse reactions. These medicines include the antidepressant nefazodone, certain antibiotics, drugs used to treat fungal infections and HIV infections, and other cholesterol-lowering medications.

FDA has issued warning letters advising Swanson and Sunburst Biorganics to stop promoting and selling the products. Companies that do not resolve violations in FDA warning letters risk enforcement actions, such as an injunction against continuing violations and a seizure of illegal products.

The FDA warning letters state that the products Red Yeast Rice, Red Yeast Rice/Policosonal Complex, and Cholestrix, sold on the firm’s websites, are unapproved new drugs that are marketed in violation of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. The warning letters are available on FDA’s Web site: www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/wlcfm/recentfiles.cfm.

FDA advises consumers who use any red yeast rice product to consult their health care provider if they experience problems that may be due to the product.

Report adverse events related to these products to MedWatch, the FDA’s voluntary reporting program:
www.fda.gov/medwatch/report.htm; 800-332-1088; Fax: 800-332-0178; and MedWatch, Food and Drug Administration, 5600 Fishers Lane, Rockville, MD, 20852-9787.

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#3 bgwowk

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 09:25 PM

That report makes it sound like the red yeast rice was adulterated. Are not natural statins, especially lovastatin, the primary cholesterol lowering mechanism of red yeast rice? Flagging red yeast rice as containing lovastatin is rather like flagging tumeric as containing curcumin.

#4 ajnast4r

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 10:14 PM

so let me get this straight...

red yeast rice is harmful because it contains lovastatin
but lovastatin containing pharmaceuticals are good because they contain lovastatin..

fda is such bullshit... yes red yeast rice contains statins, it works exactly like taking pharmaceutical statins just w/ less side effects.

#5 maxwatt

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 10:51 PM

Same side effects as with the drug, possible sarcopenia, I believe. In theory, the dose of lovastatin is inconsistent in red rice yeast, except it can be standardized. If you google it, there is a long history going back to the 90's; red rice was promoted for cholesterol, FDA claimed it was a drug, court disagreed. For two years it could be purchased (96 to 98 if I remember) but appeals court reversed it; red rice yeast since that time, though still marketed, has been a formulation without lovastatin
(and hence ineffective.) It looks like somebody brought in a batch of the original variety.

You can buy pleurots, or oyster mushrooms (Pleurotus ostreotus), in many groceries, or find them in the woods, or buy kits to grow them in your kitchen. They also contain lovastatin and will lower your cholesterol, probably as effectively as anything else.

Tea was sown to lower cholesterol and reverse some forms of artheroschlerosis in the 60's, but only if drunk with meals. The studies were done on black tea. I doubt if the extracts would have the same effect.

#6 inawe

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 11:01 PM

In a similar vein:

FDA News
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 9, 2007
Media Inquiries:
Catherine McDermott, 301-827-6242
Consumer Inquiries:
888-INFO-FDA



FDA Warns Consumers to Avoid H2O Products Promoted on Internet as Treatments for Dehydration.
Products found to contain unauthorized drug
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is warning consumers not to buy or eat H2O products promoted and sold on Web sites. The products may contain an unauthorized drug that could be harmful to health. The products are promoted as dietary supplements for treating dehydration.

#7 PWAIN

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:59 AM

I've been planning to see how things play out before posting but given what has been discussed here, I thin I should post now.

After getting a fairly high result for cholesterol in a recent blood test, I started taking Doctors Best Red Yeast Rice at 1200mg per day. The idea was as a precautionary measure. I would take it for 3 months, get another blood test and deciede from there on future dose or use. I had been taking 100mg of CoQ10 and 50mg of Ubiquinol for several months before and continued this.

About a week ago, I woke up with a bit of lower back pain on my RHS. Went back to sleep and thought that it would fade during the day ie. probably sleeping in a bad position. It didn't fade but got worse. It was still bothering me a couple of days later. Massaging it made it feel much worse. I decieded to review any new supplements I had recently started. There on the RYR bottle was something about stopping immediately if muscle pain was experienced.

A bit of research on the web revealed that a serious condition could occur (called rhabdomyolysis) that was of some concern. No way to know for sure of course but as a precaution, I followed the advice given to treat this condition since there was little to it other than keeping hydration levels very high. (Note my urine colour was normal which I took to mean that if it was rhabdomyolysis, it was not particuarly severe althouth I did monitor it carefully) I also took a small amount of bicarb as this was another suggestion I read about and I figured that bicarb is pretty harmless. I also doubled my dose of CoQ10 and Ubiquinol for about 3 days. I discontinued drinking milk to reduce my calcium intake as I read somewhere that the breakdown of muscle may flood my system with calcium. I discontinued Vitamin D3 supplementation as I read of an interaction with it. I also discontinued Pommegranite suplementation as I read about a possible link with that. Finally I discontinued my multi as it has a small amount of Bioprene.

Anyway more recently a few new symptoms have come along. The pain in my back is quite reduced (but is somewhat itchy). There is however moderate pain (more of an ache really - especially when I walk) in my hip. I also have numbness down the front of my leg and towards the backof my leg. I also have more pronounced numbness in the strip leading from my waist/side to my groin area. (Fortunately it has not spread from there:). The numbness is hard to describe and it does vary slightly from time to time. Although it is numb, there is some sense of pain - it reminds me of when anasthetic used by dentists is wearing off and there is a tingling, somewhat painful sensation. It is more prominant in the bit leading to the groin and then next would be the bit towards the back of the leg.

About 3 days ago, I moticed what looked like a patch where what appeared to be multiple mosquito bites appeared. I figured that I had been bitten multiple times and because it is numb, didn't know. Strange thing is that I can feel the itchyness when it is touched, it is a very intense sensation. I now have what looks like 3 mosquito bites in the area leading to the groin. Still not certain of the cause or if it is related.

I have been to see my doctor and told her about what has happened. She did not appear to know what RYR is so I explained that it is a statin analogue (not technically true as it contains real lipitor afaik so is a real statin). She seemed somewhat less concerned than I would have expected and indicated that I should wait a bit and see how it plays out. She didn't seem that convinced that it was a reaction to RYR. I will be seeing her again shortly on an unrelated issue and will push the whole issue a lot harder. I am not sure that anything can be done at this stage.

Here is what I am guessing might have happened but it is pure speculation and worth as much. The RYR was amplified by a number of other supps I was taking (Bioprene, Pomegranite, Resveratrol? Vitamin d3?) and as a result was effectivly a much higher dose. This caused a muscle reaction in my muscle near my lower back (could this be due to proximity to liver?) the reaction was caught early so did not result in the catastrophic effects of rhabdomyolysis but never the less did some damage to the muscle tissue. A nerve running from my spine, through this muscle and then splitting up 3 or 4 ways was somehow damaged by this process and the numbing is a result of this (and pain/aches in my hip). The sores may be due to lack of reaction due to numbness. The pain that is evident through the numbness is probably because the nerve is damaged and not severed. If all this is true, I am slightly hopeful that the nerve can eventually recover (a previously damaged nerve in one of my fingers (in an unrelated incident involving crushing) took over a year to heal but it did eventually come right so it is possible).

I am not sure how long this will go on for or even if it is permanent but I really hope not. Clearly I am not going to be taking RYR again unless I can be 100% certain that it was not the cause. As I say, I have no proof that RYR caused this but it seems too co-incidental to be ignored as a likely cause. I am certainly considering possible back problems as the cause but thought I should mention that this is one explanation I am confronting. That is the reason I was wanting to delay this post as I hoped to have more evidence one way or the other.

I WOULD URGE EXTREEM CAUTION BEFORE CONSIDERING RED YEAST RICE.

You probably will not have the same reaction but it certainly worth bearing in mind. I am not one who normally reacts to medication and seldom experience any side effects. There is always an exception out there though.

I have 6 bottles of RYR that is going to go to waste but it is a small price to pay for my leg. I will continue with phytosterols and beta glucan to help keep my cholesterol down and am planning to be more active to try reduce cholesterol.

I hope my experience and this description is of use to some. I don't have an agenda, just a sense of caution and of feeling rather stupid. Please excuse any technical inaccuracies and if correcting me please bear in mind that I don't claim any expert status I am just doing my best. Hopefully my doctor will be more helpful next time I visit.

#8 lucid

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 01:33 AM

Other sups for cholesterol:
1. Omega-3 Fish Oil + High fiber diet.
http://jn.nutrition..../full/134/2/479

Mechanisms by which the combination of fish oil and pectin (a high butyrate producer) may protect against colon tumorigenesis.

Cox-2 is inducibly expressed in tumor tissue. For example Cox-2 mRNA levels are markedly increased in 86% of human colorectal cancers (36). In turn, Cox-2 expression has been shown to downregulate apoptosis (37). When Tsujii and DuBois overexpressed Cox-2 in rat intestinal epithelial cells, those cells were resistant to butyrate-induced apoptosis (37). We have shown that Cox-2 expression is downregulated with fish oil feeding in rat colon cells (34) compared to providing corn oil in the diet (38).

A second mechanism by which the combination of fish oil and pectin may initiate apoptosis may involve production of reactive oxygen species. The mitochondria are considered the central executioners of apoptosis. We hypothesized that the fatty acids from fish oil would incorporate into the mitochondrial membrane and because they are highly unsaturated could be targets for reactive oxygen species generated as a normal part of the electron transport process. This in turn could trigger additional ROS leading to a decrease in mitochondrial membrane potential, release of cytochrome C into the cytosol and activation of caspase 3, initating apoptosis. To test this hypothesis rats were provided with diets high in fish oil or corn oil (15% by weight), and measurements made of the fatty acid composition of mitochondrial phospholipids, reactive oxygen species, translocation of cytochrome C, and activation of caspase 3. We report that fatty acids from the fish oil diet did incorporate into mitochondrial phospholipids, thus increasing the unsaturation index; in the presence of butyrate, cytochrome C translocated to the mitochondria, and caspase 3 activity was upregulated (39). Interestingly, the mechanism appears to be an increase in reactive oxygen species with fish oil feeding (40). Recently we separated the effects of butyrate production from the fiber source by providing rats with slow-release butyrate pellets and evaluating their effect on aberrant crypt formation (41). In the absence of butyrate administration, corn oil and fish oil feeding resulted in similar numbers of high multiplicity aberrant crypts/rat. In stark contrast, when butyrate was administered there were 5 times as many aberrant crypts/rat in the corn oil group compared to rats receiving fish oil (P < 0.0006) (41). This finding lends further support to our previous studies showing that the type of fat determines the efficacy of the fiber.

2. Niacin (not Nicotinamide) and Statins:
http://www.postgradm...05/mcgovern.htm

This approach is supported by findings from a placebo-controlled trial, the HDL Atherosclerosis Treatment Study (9), in which the combination of simvastatin and niacin reduced LDL-C levels by 42%, raised HDL-C levels by 26%, induced regression of coronary atherosclerosis, and reduced the risk for a cardiovascular event by more than 60%--double the reduction that is expected with statin therapy alone.

3. Resveratrol and Statins.
Here is a snipet from the full article, but below is the link to the abstract:
http://www.sciencedi....com/science...

Effect of resveratrol and statin on lipid levels:
Groups are Control (normal rats), HC (Hypercholesterolemia), HCR (Hypercholesterolemia treated with Resveratrol), HCS (Hypercholesterolemia with Statins), and HCRS (Hypercholesterolemia with Resveratrol and statins)
# Groups__Cholesterol (mg/dl) Triglycerides (mg/dl) HDL-C (mg/dl) LDL-C (mg/dl)
1 Control___86.34 ± 3.38_________78.83 ± 2.3_________41.67 ± 3.62_____29.00 ± 3.21
2 HC______142.83 ± 4.16*________150.67 ± 3.14______26.65 ± 2.80*____86.03 ± 4.70*
3 HCR_____101.16 ± 3.18*†_______96.67 ± 2.74*†____34.00 ± 1.68*†___47.83 ± 2.93*†
4 HCS______94.16 ± 7.14†_________92.83 ± 2.48*†____41.83 ± 2.31†#___33.76 ± 4.21†#
5 HCRS____87.66 ± 4.22†#________85.00 ± 2.82*†____42.00 ± 3.22†#___28.67 ± 2.34†#

Resveratrol was not as effective as statins, but they operate on different pathways hence a cumulative effect. Additionally this experiment was done on rats over the course of 2 weeks, so this does not prove efficacy in humans nor does it demonstrate effects of long term use (which likely would be further increased benefits in the case of resveratrol).
Hope you enjoyed the read, cheers.

#9 david ellis

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 02:43 AM

Maybe the thing to do is not worry about high cholesterol. ". . . half of all people who suffer heart attacks have normal cholesterol levels". If heart attacks are caused by high cholesterol wouldn't more than 50% of the heart attack victims have high cholesterol?

The referenced article points out that a measure of inflammation, CRP, is twice as good as high LDL cholesterol levels in predicting heart attacks.


The following facts make me confident about my decision to ignore high cholesterol (254).
- I had a VAP cholesterol test done that showed my LDL was predominately large fluffy particles, not small dense oxidized particles. (The so-called "bad cholesterol" LDL, actually breaks down into two categories, good- large fluffy particles. And, bad, small, heavy oxidized particles, that are a better predictor of heart attack than total LDL levels.

- By diet, I was able to reduce my cholesterol to 134. But, at 134, I did not feel as good as I did at 250 plus. I decided it was probably more healthy to choose to feel better. (Low cholesterol is associated with high all-cause mortality rates)

- Donated blood by apheresis, a process where one donation results in two units of blood - ready to hang. In this process, you can see your plasma, and if it is clear, you have good plasma. If it is milky, you have a problem. My plasma was clear.

#10 shaggy

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 10:27 AM

Thanks for all the replies...

I have never suffered any side effects on RYR even at 2400mg a day. Maybe I'm lucky?

Any one have any thoughts on Syntrinol?

#11 PWAIN

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 01:41 AM

When I was going through my options, Syntrinol was on my list but I narrowed it down to keep costs down and it fell off the list.

Good luck with RYR, you may never have any ill effect but certainly if you have any muscle pain (no matter how trivial) stop immediately - you can always resume later. I was on it for 2 or 3 weeks without any sign of problem and then suddenly wham!!

#12 shaggy

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 12:06 PM

Just had my resuts for my cholestrol panel....

TC = 136
LDL = 68
HDL = 52
Trigs = 81

I'm happy with these, although I'd like to get the HDL up, above the LDL would be good!

Any ideas folks? (I'm currently taking RYR, syntrinol, resveratrol etc.)

#13 Matt

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 03:24 PM

I wouldn't worry about trying to alter those lipid levels. You certainly have protected yourself against heart attack if you maintain this low level. TG's is still in a good range and always fluctuates, getting it around 50mg/dl -/+ 20 is good. What else can you do? Well probably the most obvious is CR and the avoidance of high glycemic foods. Maybe try some Green Tea extract and fish oil. You probably are already doing that to some extent I assume?

And I wouldn't at all worry about the low cholesterol levels. There are a few ways to getting low cholesterol a) a healthy diet + supps b) some chronic disease (i.e cancer), c) medication. All are not equal and all may produce different outcomes on mortality. There is no really good evidence that having such a low healthy cholesterol level in anyway raises your risk of dying.

If you want to look at your overall risk then there is a few things you can consider taking a look at

1) hs-CRP
2) Fasting Glucose
3) Blood pressure
4) Cholesterol

Keeping in an 'optimal' range for all risk factors is best in the long run. With those cholesterol numbers though your risk is probably close to Nill of having a heart attack.

Edited by Matt, 22 August 2007 - 05:34 PM.


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#14 health_nutty

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 04:35 PM

And I wouldn't at all worry about the low cholesterol levels. There are a few ways to getting low cholesterol  a) a healthy diet + supps b) some chronic disease (i.e cancer), medication. All are not equal and all may produce different outcomes on mortality. There is no really good evidence that having such a low healthy cholesterol level in anyway raises your risk of dying.


Yes, in fact the mainstream medical community recommends getting your LDL as low as possible:
http://www.medscape....warticle/560903

On a side note I think its funny to imply statins are evil and RYR is fine. They contain the same active ingredient. In this case the FDA has banned it for a decent reason, imho: the side effects of the drug (in either form) should be monitored by a doctor.




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