12 replies to this topic

[chennai01]

I have been struggling to come up with the best combination of three anti-inflammatory fats to fight my psoriatic arthritis/fibromyalgia. Specifically, I take about 4.2 grams of EPA/DHA (i.e. fish oil), 900 MG/day of GLA (i.e. borage oil w/ Sesame Ligans) and 6 tablespoons of olive oil (I consume two tablespoons with each of 3 raw salad/vegatable meals each day).

Studies indicate all three have an anti-inflammatory effect, but none that I know of have been done involving all three. I've read a small study that showed adding 1/2 tablespoon of olive oil per day increased the anti-inflammatory effects of 3 grams of EPA/DHA per day.

So, the basic question is should one maximize Omega 3 fats and minimize all Omega 6 fats (including the anti-inflammatory borage oil and olive oil) or should one maximize the total anti-inflammatory fats (i.e. assume they all don't work against each other)?

[health_nutty]

I think the idea you have is great. All three have unique health properties. Olive oil raises HDL for example.

Olive oil is predominantly omega 9 (mono saturated), btw.

People have reported good effects from turmeric as well. I take the whole root powder (2 tsp 3x per day) because it is more bioavailable than the extract.

[stephen_b]

health_nutty, what's your source of whole root powder? Thanks.

Stephen

[Brainbox]

I buy the stuff that is intended for seasoning at the groceries. Health benefits are only side effects when eating a good diet..... :smile:

[health_nutty]

I think the idea you have is great. All three have unique health properties. Olive oil raises HDL for example.

Olive oil is predominantly omega 9 (mono saturated), btw.

People have reported good effects from turmeric as well. I take the whole root powder (2 tsp 3x per day) because it is more bioavailable than the extract.

I just buy a package of powdered turmeric from a local indian grocery store (for price reasons only). Sometimes I will make a "curry" dish out of it but most of the time I just mix it with water and chug it (since I only make a curry dish about once a week or so). Not very tasty but it is very cheap. I usually drink it right before my unsweetened cocoa to get the taste out of my mouth.

[chennai01]

I think the idea you have is great. All three have unique health properties. Olive oil raises HDL for example.

Olive oil is predominantly omega 9 (mono saturated), btw.

People have reported good effects from turmeric as well. I take the whole root powder (2 tsp 3x per day) because it is more bioavailable than the extract.

Thanks, I've roughly tried to follow LEF's rheumatoid arthritis protocol (along with some other items that impact the inflammatory pathways):

http://www.lef.org/p...rthritis_02.htm

In that, they do include curcumin and ginger. I've stopped the curcumin for a bit as I think I was bleeding too easily (many of these things thin the blood), but may add it back soon.

It seems fish oil followed by borage oil have the best evidence from double-blind human studies. Still, I wonder if the Omega 6 fats from borage oil and olive oil (I believe it contains a small amount, but I consume a lot of olive oil) offset the benefits of fish oil's Omega 3. I know Dr. Barry Sears (i.e. zone diet) is an Omega 3 maximizer. My intuition was that maximizing all of these fats would reduce inflammation the most, but do wonder if a high dose fish oil approach would be better?

I read there was a study looking at fish oil, borage oil, and a combination for arthritis going on that finishes in June 2008. Maybe it will provide some answers?

Edited by chennai01, 26 November 2007 - 08:51 PM.

[health_nutty]

I think the idea you have is great. All three have unique health properties. Olive oil raises HDL for example.

Olive oil is predominantly omega 9 (mono saturated), btw.

People have reported good effects from turmeric as well. I take the whole root powder (2 tsp 3x per day) because it is more bioavailable than the extract.

Thanks, I've roughly tried to follow LEF's rheumatoid arthritis protocol (along with some other items that impact the inflammatory pathways):

http://www.lef.org/p...rthritis_02.htm

In that, they do include curcumin and ginger. I've stopped the curcumin for a bit as I think I was bleeding too easily (many of these things thin the blood), but may add it back soon.

It seems fish oil followed by borage oil have the best evidence from double-blind human studies. Still, I wonder if the Omega 6 fats from borage oil and olive oil (I believe it contains a small amount, but I consume a lot of olive oil) offset the benefits of fish oil's Omega 3. I know Dr. Barry Sears (i.e. zone diet) is an Omega 3 maximizer. My intuition was that maximizing all of these fats would reduce inflammation the most, but do wonder if a high dose fish oil approach would be better?

I read there was a study looking at fish oil, borage oil, and a combination for arthritis going on that finishes in June 2008. Maybe it will provide some answers?

Rather than megadosing the omega 3's I would recommend taking the mid to high end of the recommended dosage of a variety of healthy anti-inflammatories that have research behind them. Fish oil is also known to "thin" the blood, btw.
You are okay with the small amount of omega 6's from the olive and borage as long as you are taking a good amount of omega 3's. I haven't seen any evidence that you need to maintain an extreme ratio of omega 3 to omega 6. Optimal balance is the key not extremes.

[ortcloud]

Rather than megadosing the omega 3's I would recommend taking the mid to high end of the recommended dosage of a variety of healthy anti-inflammatories that have research behind them.

I agree, is there a reason you only want to do this with oils ?

I use 200mg. of activin and 4 mg. of astaxanthin and it makes an incredible difference in inflammation of my joints, not to mention a large dose of antioxidants.
The OPC in grape seed appear to inhibit hyaluronidase and boost the hyaluronic acid levels aka joint fluid for extra joint lubrication.

[chennai01]

Rather than megadosing the omega 3's I would recommend taking the mid to high end of the recommended dosage of a variety of healthy anti-inflammatories that have research behind them.

I agree, is there a reason you only want to do this with oils ?

I use 200mg. of activin and 4 mg. of astaxanthin and it makes an incredible difference in inflammation of my joints, not to mention a large dose of antioxidants.
The OPC in grape seed appear to inhibit hyaluronidase and boost the hyaluronic acid levels aka joint fluid for extra joint lubrication.

I use a bunch of stuff besides the oils. Specifically, I also use curcumin, ginger, SAM-E, 5-Loxin, Lyprinol, Lycopene, Nettle Leaf, Quercetin, MSM, Astaxanthin, and drink lots of green tea. However, the oils (particularly fish oil and borage oil) seem to have the best evidence (in terms of double blind human studies) for autoimmune arthritis.

Edited by chennai01, 27 November 2007 - 02:02 AM.

[maxwatt]

Resveratrol is an effective anti-inflammatory. See this post, with links to "Before" and "After" pictures.

http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=191715

Resveratrol did more for me that EPA/DHA fish oil capsules, or NSAIDS, or curcumin.

[david ellis]

chennai01, about the thinning of blood. I have been taking about 4 grams of omega3's for years, and have found that 100 mcg/day of Vitamin K helps my blood coagulate. Vitamin K cream can be used to break up bruises. (Plastic surgeons use K cream to help speed up the healing of surgery bruises).

We are both interested in the same thing-maximizing the benefit we can get from anti-inflammatory supplements. My objective is to control osteoarthritis. I only take 240 mg of GLA because my diet includes a lot of corn feed beef, which has omega6 in it. Omega6 can turn into arachidonic acid which you don't want. I am currently taking 4 grams of fish oil omega3, 240 mg of GLA, 100 mg of lyprinol, 1 gram of Neptune krill oil, 4 mg of astaxanthin, and 800 mg of curcumin. I am planning to find out how effective the krill oil and lyprinol are by taking CRP blood tests. They are expensive and maybe they are not worth the expense.

[chennai01]

Below is a study of fish oil, borage oil and a combination on peridontal inflammation. Apparently, borage oil alone worked the best. It seems they used fairly low doses and even lower doses for the combo treatment. I wonder what a high dose of fish oil and borage oil would show?

Pilot study of dietary fatty acid supplementation in the treatment of adult periodontitis

Elliot D. Rosenstein, , a, Laura J. Kushnera, b, Neil Kramera and Gregory Kazandjianb
a Arthritis and Rheumatic Disease Center, St. Barnabas Medical Center, 200 South Orange Avenue, Livingston, NJ 07039, USA
b Division of Periodontics, Department of Dentistry, New York Veterans Administration Medical Center, New York, NY, USA
Received 12 June 2002; accepted 1 October 2002. ; Available online 11 February 2003.



Abstract
The anti-inflammatory effects of both n-3 and n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) have been demonstrated in vitro and in many disease states, in particular in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis. The benefit of n-3 PUFA supplementation has been documented in animal models of periodontal inflammation and a trend towards reduced inflammation has been seen in human experimental gingivitis. The purpose of this study was to examine the potential anti-inflammatory effects of PUFA supplementation, by administration of fish oil as a source of the n-3 PUFA, eicosapentaenoic acid, and borage oil as a source of the n-6 PUFA, gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), to adults with periodontitis. Thirty adult human subjects with periodontitis were administered either fish oil 3000 mg daily; borage oil 3000 mg daily; fish oil 1500 and borage oil 1500 mg daily, or placebo. The modified gingival index, the plaque index (PI), periodontal probing depths and β-glucuronidase levels in gingival crevicular fluid were measured at baseline and after 12 weeks of treatment. Improvement in gingival inflammation was observed in subjects treated with borage oil (P<0.016), with a trend apparent in subjects treated with fish oil or a combination of PUFA. There was no statistically significant improvement in PI, although a trend was apparent in those receiving borage oil. Improvement in probing depth was seen in those subjects treated with either fish oil alone or borage oil alone, but statistical significance was only seen for the comparison of borage oil and placebo (P<0.044). No change was seen in gingival crevicular fluid (GCF) β-glucuronidase levels. The use of borage oil supplementation, a source of the n-6 PUFA, GLA, can have beneficial effects on periodontal inflammation. n-6 PUFA supplementation seemed to offer more impressive results than either n-3 PUFA supplementation or the combination of lower doses of the two supplements. Additional studies will be necessary to more fully assess the potential of these agents to favorably affect periodontal inflammation.

http://www.sciencedi...02134eed95985b3

[ortcloud]

can anyone give some feedback on adding in sesame lignans to gla or fish oil ? lef makes a big deal about them, it makes sense etc. but then they only put in 10-20mg. seems low compared to other sesamin products. I have seen 200mg.-500mg. in some products. Is this overkill or is the lef not enough ?