Partial Chat (starting about 10min in):
Session Start: Sun Dec 16 16:09:29 2007
ShannonVyff: Other family members
but really they are receptive to the concepts naturally. I had the experience of teaching a futurist course to 75 kids over the summer, and all of them thought we'd naturally be traveling in the starts someday. A few even asked their parents if they could be frozen when they die! (no I did not get in trouble, many parents were interested)
Mind: So your kids don't get funny looks when they talk about this stuff in public?
ShannonVyff: The family members I reference are very religious, so they have a different take on 'immortality'. I say that if it is 'allowed' then they can do more good for their religion in the future.
Jedi: how do these peoplpe react on cryonics?
Mind: Jedi: We will have time for open questions in a few minutes
Mind: I'll let you know
Mind: when
ShannonVyff: About my kids, Barbara Walters asked them what their friends think.... They take the attitude that others are entititled to their opinions.
Jedi: ok
lglenn3000: You and your family was interviewed by Barbara Walters?
Mind: Shannon has been interviewed many times in many different media
ShannonVyff: But, they have been raised with this--it may be tough when they become teenagers, I'll let you know--it is kind of an experiment
lglenn3000: cool!
ShannonVyff: Yes, and we are still 'on' for an upcoming Oprah show!
Mind: Everytime the mainstream media covers a Immortality Institute or WTA conference they always remark how the attendees are mainly young to middle aged men.
Mind: This is a question that has been brought up in the forums a few times. Why are the topics of Transhumanism, Immortality, and Cryonics dominated by men?
Mind: Linda feel free to chime in on this one
lglenn3000: ooh, keep me posted on that Oprah show, please!
lglenn3000: I have a few theories on that, but I'd be curious to hear what Shannon has to say...
Mind: I don't think this should be the case....but it is
ShannonVyff: I know a lot of women in the field of extreme life extension. Really I see more young women becoming involved, more gen X & Y than the baby boomer gen.
Mind: Life extension should be gender nuetral
lglenn3000: yes, it should be, i agree
Mind: I see more women involved recently, but the numbers are still tilted toward men
ShannonVyff: I personally got more interested after becoming a mother, seems the best I could do for my children
lglenn3000: The religious members of your family -- are they spiritual, too?
ShannonVyff: I wrote my book to teach transhumanist themes to my own children, but also to fill a niche for other cryonicist parents--I've had many that are extremely happy to have it.
BruceKlein: (side note: Oprah's networth is over $2.5 billion)
lglenn3000: I tend to think of Unitarian -- Universalists as more spiritual than religious, so I can see thoughtful discussion about life extension might fit better
ShannonVyff: We have Buddhists, Catholics and Conservative Christians--they are all spiritual. Our family attends the First Unitarian Universalist Church of Austin, where I teach religious education.
ShannonVyff: Right! Many of my friends at church are into it, we have a sci-fi group. I've sold about 35 books at my church so far, had to bring new ones intoday for the Holiday gift season.
Mind: Back to the main question
lglenn3000: I think of myself as a buddhist/christian/unitarian hybrid ~ and I am curious to hear what others think about life-extension
Mind: Linda, what is your theory about the male/female ratio in life extension
lglenn3000: My theory is that women tend to feel like they've achieved immortality through having children, but I have to say that meeting Shannon just blew that theory out of the water!
ShannonVyff: Well I also have a theory that more boys get into science fiction for the action, there are few books available for children with strong female characters and a lack of violence.
Mind: Shannon is special
Mind: good point Shannon
Mind: On the religious side of things that you two were discussiing
lglenn3000: I loved Robert Heinlein books when I was growing up, he had strong female characters
Mind: Do you both think that religion and life extension/transhumaism are compoatible??
ShannonVyff: Ok, now y'all --since writing my book, I was shocked to meet so many cryonicist families that I never knew existed. I was just contacted yesterday by a mother that found me. I know of 50 or so, and at the recent Cryo-feast I helped host at Natasha Vita-More's house, we had 6 children (two families other than mine!)
lglenn3000: It depends on what religion you are talking about, Justin
Mind: there are so mNY
Mind: many
lglenn3000: I would say that it is certain compatible with a number of Judeo-Christian sects
Mind: I suppose if you consider Bhuddism a religion, then that would be somewhat compatible
ShannonVyff: Of course I think 'extreme-life extension' is compatible with religion and spirituality, I'd love to see a growth in the liberal religious branches of the major religions.
Mind: It seems the major conservative Christian sects and radical Islam are against immortalism and transhumanism
lglenn3000: in traditional Judaism, I forget the exact phrasely, but it is something like "one day in this life is better..."
lglenn3000: Part of that, I think, is learning to engage them on their own terms...
Mind: Linda, any particular legal hurdles you see forthcoming in the near future (besides the stem cell regulations)??
Mind: Anything that has caught your eye recently?
lglenn3000: Well, let's hope not -- I think that there is hope with the upcoming elections next year
ShannonVyff: Well, when so much of one's faith is put into a higher power, I'd like more people to put this in 'its' hands as well.
lglenn3000: we are a country that values our autonomy...
Mind: right]
ShannonVyff: Thankfully America is not isolated from the rest of the world, and when progress is made elsewhere we feel the need to 'cath up'.
ShannonVyff: 'catch up'
lglenn3000: It has been disconcerting that so much of this administration seems to feel the need to control other people behavior
lglenn3000: for example, banning family planning and contraception in their foreign aid programs
Mind: We'll see what the next election brings
ShannonVyff: I agree.
Mind: OK...now time for member questions
Mind: Please try to stay on one theme
lglenn3000: because if you control things like family planning, contraception, what next?
lglenn3000: banning cryonics, for example
lglenn3000: or transhumanism
Mind: don't stray too far with multiple questions on multiple subjects
Mind: thankfully cryonics has survived regulation thus far
ShannonVyff: It was kind of funny yesterday when my 8 year old was talking about the upcoming elections and only knew the democrat contenders
Mind: thanks to a woman
Mind: Representatuve Lopez
Mind: in Arizona
lglenn3000: I was trying to tie it back into your original question about transhumanism, etc...
Mind: right
Mind: Jedi....did you have a question from earlier in the chat?
Jedi: yes
Mind: please go ahead
ShannonVyff: Cryonics Institute is classified as a cemetary, Alcor has stayed seperate.
Jedi: how does your religious family react on cryoncs?
lglenn3000: thanks for the clarification -- I didn't realize that..
Jedi: my family are very religious...
ShannonVyff: Well, the conservative christian thinks it is silly, and the children will only be saved by Jesus.
ShannonVyff: The catholic grandma, just loves the grandkids and hopes angels will watch over them while they are preserved.
Jedi: wat do you tell them? I don't know how to mention cryonics with my family
Mind: I have a hard time with that also
Jedi: tell me?
ShannonVyff: The Buddhists, are converts but were raised on the Catholic side--they think that each day is important, and to worry about the future detracts from ones enjoyment of the day. (but they are not the biggest planners)
ShannonVyff: Really, the conservative christian is the one whom I say that if God allows it, then the children can do more good for him in the future, and bring more people to Jesus's word if they so wish.
ShannonVyff: You all are aware I'm sure, that Mormans are very much into Transhumanism.
lglenn3000: so, true, Shannon, about the Buddhists! It's about 'holding eternity in the palm of your hand"
lglenn3000: and no, I didn't know that about the Mormoms
Mind: I didn't know that either
ShannonVyff: Yeah, to them each day is the bliss of eternity, and to want more would be to suffer.
Mind: They mormons I know don't talk about it too much
Jedi: In my opinion transhunanism and cryoncs is compatible whit christianity
ShannonVyff: The mormons have an active transhumanist forum, like ImmInst. I met many at Transvision this past summer, it was a lot of fun--they do have the 'newest' prophet
lglenn3000: I'm not sure I understand what to 'want more would be to suffer' means...
ShannonVyff: If you are wanting more, the wanting is suffering--so to free yourself from suffering, you free yourself from want...
lglenn3000: oh, ok, I get it -- thanks~
lglenn3000: I wonder how Mitt Romney feels about that...
ShannonVyff: I have met some christian transhumanists. One believed that through the development of A.I. we were creating God, so by being a transhumanist he was helping God.
kanzure: The Mormons have Allsop's Mormon Transhumanist Association.
ShannonVyff: (this was based on the super computer with the power of the sun, that can simulate all life, effect history and such)
Jedi: hmm, i see an AI not as a God
Mind: all I know is that Romney totally dissed atheists and agnostics the other day
kanzure: ShannonVyff: That's an interesting person you mention there, re: developing an ai god (mbrain, I assume).
lglenn3000: Yup, I can see that -- very traditional judeo-christian -- "we are co-creators with God"
kanzure: Jedi: There are websites out there that see ai-as-god, particularly SL4 and OA.
Mind: Of course he is trying to shore up his voting base
lglenn3000: mbrain?
ShannonVyff: they don't think the first AI would be
kanzure: lglenn3000: Matrioshka brain.
lglenn3000: thanks!
kanzure: It's kind of like a Jupiter brain, except larger and a dyson sphere. Anyway ...
lglenn3000: Don't you think that eventually we will merge with AI, though?
kanzure: Who are you asking?
Mind: probably....just hope everyone has a choice about it
lglenn3000: Shannon, justin, anybody
lglenn3000: Yes, I'm assuming choice in this...
ShannonVyff: I do
but not sure if I'll get to see the far future beyond the lifespan the evolutionary dice has given me.
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lglenn3000: Do you all know about the CyBeRev project?
kanzure: No, what is it?
Jedi: no?
ShannonVyff: Even though I'm signed up for cryonics, I don't think at all that it will work--it is more of a chance really. Yes, I'm a member of teh CyBeRev project.
kanzure:
http://www.cyberev.org/ is this it?
kanzure: ` The purpose of the CyBeRev project is to prevent death by preserving sufficient digital information about a person so that recovery remains possible by foreseeable technology.`
lglenn3000: yes, kanzur3e
kanzure: `The first step toward achieving that goal, and the purpose of this website, is for participants to store digital reflections of their mannerisms, personality, recollections, feelings, beliefs, attitudes and values with as great a fidelity as is possible.`
kanzure: Interesting, I wonder what their methods are
ShannonVyff: Some people believe tha immortality will be through uploading, or creating a cyber consciousness from all that is you. Others believe in ending aging and bio-immortality.
lglenn3000: me, too, Shannon ---
kanzure: It looks like they focus on photographs and documents that an individual finds important, rather than the individual's "Daily Routine" (like for example, the thousands of blogs that I read each day to get my news).
lglenn3000: I'm a member
Mind: cool
lglenn3000: but I haven't spent as much time as I'd like uploading or answering their questions
ShannonVyff: Yes it is an interesting concept, and I do think cyber immortality will come before bio immortality, personally --it just seems easier..
ShannonVyff: Oh me too
I've got so much going on in my life--plus I put a lot of 'me' into ImmInst
Jedi: why?
kanzure: I wonder if they will make a web crawler to archive everything I've posted on the internet (more than 10k pages, I think?)
ShannonVyff: I'm not too sure that their questions are effective for capturing personality, they are fun but get boring after a while.
kanzure: Ah, so they get things like your Briggs personality type? (INTJ for me)
ShannonVyff: hmmm I would not want it finding all my private postings
kanzure: haha
kanzure: understandably
lglenn3000: I like what Ray Kurzweil had to say about the bio-cyber connection -- that "there will not be any 'us vs them' -- because we will be 'them'"
lglenn3000: ha~
Mind: Linda, when did you become interested in Immortalism/Transhumanism/Future Tech Ai??
ShannonVyff: They don't do Briggs, it is more complex than that.. I like Ray, and am happy to hear he is working on his Alcor paperwork now.... he sees cryonics as 'plan D' and is hoping for some physical immortality before he would have to die.
lglenn3000: so, Shannon, how did you come to be contacted by the media for all these?
kanzure: That's kind of scary, how they just allow you to have one main personality type. I know I've changed over the years.
lglenn3000: I think I have always been interested, since I was a little girl
ShannonVyff: First I was a spokesperson for the Calorie Restriction society, but then after I became an Alcor member I started doing outreach for them. I just get asked, and I volunteer.
Mind: Just a reminder that it is now open discussion/interaction with the guests Shannon Vyff and Linda Glenn McDonald
lglenn3000: I used to drive mly parents and my siblings nuts with questions about immortality, eternity --
ShannonVyff: Linda, are you with a cryonics organization? (I can get anyone a free year's subscription to Alcor's magazine, just email or PM me
)
lglenn3000: now I prefer to think of it as 'transcending the space-time boundaries of this bubble we live in"
Mind: Also, to our esteemed guests, feel free to stay as long as you wish, or leave at your convenience, there are no time restrictions...we're pretty casual here
lglenn3000: No, not yet, shannon, I will email you!
lglenn3000: Shannon, I have a question for you...
ShannonVyff: A lot of people I've talked to were interested since they were children. My own children hate going to sleep, and the though of dying terrifies them. They are comforted by the fact that they may get more time with cryonics, beyond whatever different religions tell them they may have. Linda, my email is shannonvyff@yahoo.com
Jedi: I would like to have subscribtion too, shannon
ShannonVyff: Yeah, just email me, but do send your land mail address
Jedi: ok,. I'll do that in a PM
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ShannonVyff: I did hear from 5 women that they were going to attend, I suppose it was easier with a smaller amount.
lglenn3000: when you went to the transvision conference, did you every mention religion or spirituality? cause last time I went, I got some pretty harsh reactions to the mention of religion or spirituality
ShannonVyff: Yes, I did in my speech on stage. I had a woman come up to me afterwards who said she'd hidden her cross, and was thankful for what I said--she wore it the next day.
ShannonVyff: I'd say 75% of my interview with Barbara Walters centered around religious questions, about the soul and such.
lglenn3000: I did at my presentation, too --- but that was in 2003 or 4 and the room erupted into a shouting match
ShannonVyff: People want to know where the sould would go. Our consciousness is turned off each night when we sleep, or are in a coma. I'm sorry you started a shouting match, how did you present it?
ShannonVyff: I generally point out that if God has a purpose for you in the future, then he'll put you there...or a more UU (inclusive of all religions) version.
lglenn3000: I presented it terms of a common theme among many religions -- of stewardship --
lglenn3000: I had people shouting that all religion or spiritual was "BS" or 'mumbo-jumbo" that it should have nothing to do with transhumanism
lglenn3000: of course, the other half of the room leapt to my defense, hence the shouting match
Mind: Christians are fond to say "god has a plan for you". For those religious folks who are so against bio-immortality, I would just say "god must be planning it for us"
lglenn3000: mostly, I wanted to encourage tolerance of different viewpoints
ShannonVyff: Hah! Religion does a lot of good for society and you can't take away people's comforting beliefs, transhumans must be inclusive of all who can help in the cause.
lglenn3000: so, true! I totally agree!
lglenn3000: I'd like to believe that the H+ community is becoming more tolerant and inclusive
lglenn3000: so maybe I'll attend the next transvision
lglenn3000: does anybody now where it is in 2008?
ShannonVyff: Well 'God' has allowed much of modern medicine to save people (or not per his plan...) but cryonics is an extension, as is bioethics, A.I. etc.
lglenn3000: that's right, Shannon -- I like to point that out, too!
Jedi: god gave us aour brain to develop al those things, i my eyes it is not bad
lglenn3000: yup, jedi
Jedi: that is the way I see it.
Paraselene: ... gragh.
lglenn3000: gragh?
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ShannonVyff: I've not heard where 08 will yet be, and did not see it on a quick searh. The next conference I'll be it is World Future Society 08, July in Washington D.C.
lglenn3000: Well, Shannon, pleasure to meet you! Justin, thank you for inviting me!
Mind: As this is a Chat on transhumanism/immortalism from a female perspective...if there are any women in the gallery, please feel free to chime in or ask questions
Mind: You are wlecome Linda
ShannonVyff: The World Future Society runs over 1000 attendees, and I'll be presenting cryonics, it will be interesting! Nice meeting you too Linda!
ShannonVyff: Do, feel free to email me
Mind: Thank you for joiing us
lglenn3000: I will!
lglenn3000: We've had a big snowstorm here, and I need to go take a nice long hot bath to sooth my aching muscles from shoveling snow!!
lglenn3000: So, I am going to excuse myself....
ShannonVyff: oh yes, that sounds like a wonderful way to enjoy living!
lglenn3000: ha, yes!~\
ShannonVyff: bye, and take care
Jedi: ok, was nice talking to you
lglenn3000: so have a good evening all and I
Jedi: bye bye
lglenn3000: I've enjoyed chatting with you all!
lglenn3000: g'night!
Jedi:
ShannonVyff: thanks
ShannonVyff: ditto
Mind: So, Shannon, have you been on Oprah yet...or been recorded? What is the update on that/
ShannonVyff: The show I was going to be on was focusing on end of life issues, but they changed at the last minute to only having people who were dying in a few weeks (various cancers) Now I'm supposed to be on one that will have the 'science' of near death experiences, and they want to include cryonics
but no I don't know when this show will air... and it has not been yet filmed, I'm worried that the election could put off all this 'death' stuff...
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ShannonVyff: I will have to tell them about my own NDE I suppose
ShannonVyff: I felt the wonderous bliss, yet still am a cryonicist
Mind: Yeah...some nueroscientist say the bliss is bio-chemical
Mind: the white light and everything
ShannonVyff: yeah, I posted a New Scientist article on that a while back... I've always followed it, since I've 'died' twice in my life.
Mind: In fact some experiments have produced the out-of-body experience without anyone having to be close to death
ShannonVyff: (had my heart stop, but then re-started) age 4/12 and age 12
Jedi: oh? how was that?
Jedi: what did you see?
Mind: So Shannon, do you think you are destined to live forever...because you survived death twice laready
ShannonVyff: Yeah, those are very cool, and I was hoping that more people would be cryonicits
Mind: already
ShannonVyff: hah hah!
ShannonVyff: no
Mind: It's a sign...lol
ShannonVyff: I was lucky to be in a hospital both times, would not have happened 100 years ago, so science has already let me live longer...
Jedi: idd, nothing wrong with science
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ShannonVyff: I'm happy for that, cryonics working is not something that I expect, but would be a happy bonus--and I'd be pretty ecstatic for a while maybe even a few thousand years
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Jedi: If cryonics works, jou have extra time to live
ShannonVyff: Jedi! how are you! I'm glad you could make it!!!
ShannonVyff: Hope you are not too sleepy
Jedi: i m tired, but i like this chat, and i can sleep in the nix morning
Mind: any other questions for Shannon??
Jedi: are you writing a next novel of the 21 first century kids?
ShannonVyff: awe, thanks for coming!
ShannonVyff: oh gosh, my children want me too... I really need to get started...
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ShannonVyff: I have a plotfor it.
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Jedi: i want tot read it, when it is finised
ShannonVyff: I have so many things I want to write, it is hard to pick one. Right now I'm writing a book set in the now. I've died in it, am on ice and my daughter has to deal with her younger sibling being kidnapped by a religious nut (since she raised a bunch of money for ending againg)
Mind: I have to retire for the evening.
Mind: Everyone, please feel free to continue discussions
ShannonVyff: oh, well you've read 21st Century Kids then?
Mind: And a big thanks to Shannon for her unique perspective on transhumanism, cryonics, and immortalism
ShannonVyff: good night Mind, thank you for hosting
Jedi: yep, i did it last summer
Jedi: sleep well, mind
ShannonVyff: oh, nice--well Avryn the boy doesn't make it back to Earth because the humans took over the robot research facility... he has to choose wether or not to continue with the A.I. on their mission... he becomes a fugitive... long story
ShannonVyff: (that is the sequel to 21st Century Kids)
ShannonVyff: Well I'm glad if you liked it, since you said you read a lot of sci-fi.
Jedi: i look forward to read this sequel
ShannonVyff: ok, I'll start writing it then...
Jedi: i like good scifi storys and yours was very positive about the future
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ShannonVyff: That is the reason I wrote it. I felt that so much of what is written presents a dystopic future--my world is no utopia--but I present a positive outlook.
ShannonVyff: I could not find the kind of book I wanted to give my own children...so I wrote it.
ShannonVyff: Do you have a group of transhumanist where you live? Do you know any cryonicists?
Jedi: no, i am on my own
ShannonVyff: oh, well I wish I had more girlfriends here !
Jedi: i would like to talk with other people about cryonics , but the see is as a joke, that is will never work ..
ShannonVyff: oh, I get that reacition sometimes--I just tell them about how I learned about it, the science of it--and that I don't expect it to work, it is just a reasonable chance.
Jedi: better a little chance than no at all, right?
ShannonVyff: yes! many think that about cryonics, but sadly never actually set it up because their 'death' seems so far off...
ShannonVyff: do you speak any German per chance?
ShannonVyff: Most of my book has been translated into German...
Jedi: i lost my mother on cancer, it was no fun, if i knew better, I had wanted cry suspensie for her...
Jedi: i don't speak german
ShannonVyff:
ShannonVyff>I'm sorry about your mother.
Jedi: thnx
ShannonVyff: Cryonics Institute gets a lot of members from Europe shipped to them.
Jedi: I know
ShannonVyff: Both of my parents are 'interested' in cryonics--but one has a wife who will not let him because of the cost, she'd rather it go to her daughter who actually would need it. My mother, just has never really looked into it--very frustrating.
Jedi: I am considering cryonics for a year of 1,5 years
ShannonVyff: Most people consider for several years, before they actually sign, that is quite common.
Jedi: first of all, I would my husband do the same, end some of mij best friends
ShannonVyff: Yes, that has always been important for me. In fact when my husband was recently interviewed for an upcoming movie (Michael Arth's documentary) he said he is doing cryonics for 'marital bliss'
Jedi:
ShannonVyff: I've been married three times. I signed up each of my first two husbands with Alcor, but I'm sure neither has kept up their arrangements. I just kind of sign up my husbands I guess
But my husband now, he writes science fiction, and played 'cryonics' as a kids, so he is more into the idea.
Jedi: maybe you could help me, to talks about cryonics (or i have mine husband read my short story about cryonics
Jedi:
kanzure: Mike writes scifi?
ShannonVyff: yes, my husband now has been the first to put his own money into cryonics. In the past that has been an issue, but cryonics institute is such a reasonable amount. Yes, Michael won an award for the Texas Writer's league, their 07 sci-fi/horror category for a sci-fi piece.
Jedi: cool
kanzure: I can't find anything via Google, can you drop me a few titles or links please?
BruceKlein: Hi Shannon, wanted to say thanks for joining the chat... and great that you're doing well, faimly, etc in TX
ShannonVyff: thank Bruce
here is the link to the short story, that the later novel piece that won the larger Texas Writer's league award:
ShannonVyff:
http://anotherealm.com/2004/ar042904.htmlkanzure: On the subject of Texas .. have we done a head count in the local area?
ShannonVyff: sorry that was posted to soon, to finish though, that short story is the one that that the novel that won the larger award--was based on.
kanzure: I know there's myself, Shannon, Natasha, Max, and then a few other fellows from the CryoFeast like Sam, Christopher, and a few others that I am unsure if are regulars or not.
kanzure: At least in the Austin, TX area
ShannonVyff: We have lots of transhumanists! We have about 20 in our local Austin Intelligentsia group, there are 5 ImmInst members, the others are cryonicists or extropians
ShannonVyff: For our live gatherings we usually have 7-10 show up
kanzure: Heh, that's a ratio of 1 per million in Texas
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Jedi: I go offf, I am tired. it's sleeping time for me. thanx jou all that I could participate in these chat.
Jedi: good night to everybody and see you on the forum
Jedi: bye beye
kanzure: Good night
Jedi: thnx
ShannonVyff: yeah, good night all--I'm getting up early to care for a friends baby--yeah, 3 days with an 8 month old
gosh, it has been a while since mine were little
BruceKlein: sleep well... Shannon, thanks again ;-)
ShannonVyff: it'll be fun though, I love babies... you too, thanks for creating the community
BruceKlein: yeah, i'm pretty excited about the potential for imminst, and look to host a chat to disuss this soon
ShannonVyff: Great! It was a relief for me to find, when I can upset friends on other forums with some of my opinions
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ShannonVyff: (not that I don't argue them, people just tent to think the same way I do around ImmInst)
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Session Close: Sun Dec 16 18:29:42 2007
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