24 replies to this topic

[mark11t]

Does anyone here believe this sounds credible?

http://www.lewrockwe...di/sardi65.html

It's an article by an alternative health journalist claiming that excess iron is what causes men to die sooner than women. It seems to make some sense although of course I doubt there's research to back it up.

Similar article:
http://www.lewrockwe...ig/sardi10.html

[luv2increase]

Does anyone here believe this sounds credible?

http://www.lewrockwe...di/sardi65.html

It's an article by an alternative health journalist claiming that excess iron is what causes men to die sooner than women. It seems to make some sense although of course I doubt there's research to back it up.

Similar article:
http://www.lewrockwe...ig/sardi10.html

Well, men cannot eliminate iron from their systems like women can. Women can until they come to the age in which their messes are no longer, menopause. The only ways to get rid of excess iron are regular blood donating and iron chelator agents both natural and pharmaceutical. There are two iron tests that need to be done to determine your iron level within your body. Either one alone with not suffice. I don't remember the names of the tests though. Excess iron can even cause a liver disease similar to cirrhosis. Iron is a very serious matter. It isn't good at all to have excesses and the mainstream medical industry is actually started to recommend iron tests for all men just like mammograms are recommended for all women.

[Mind]

Here is a "commercial" white paper on overmineralization (including iron) as a cause of aging.

[luv2increase]

Here is a "commercial" white paper on overmineralization (including iron) as a cause of aging.

A good paper yes, but that supplement has a pathetic list of ingredients no doubt.

[mikeinnaples]

Iron is a nasty nasty thing to have in your body outside of the bare minimum your body needs to create red blood cells. Free iron is a toxic free radical. High blood concentrations of iron damage cells in the heart, liver and casue other problems, including long-term organ damage and even death. Iron increases cell death, speeds up aging, and contributes to cancer. To make it worse, there are people out there still operating under the belief that iron is 'good' for you. They take daily multiples with 100% iron, eat iron fortified foods (you will see most cereals have significant iron in them, and consume red meats and other foods high in content.

Honestly unless you are anemic, there is no reason whatsoever that you should ever be taking iron. In fact, most people get TOO MUCH iron from food alone and should be regularly donating blood and taking a chelator.

[senseix]

Anyone care to list some of the iron chelators that have been shown to be effective?

[mikeinnaples]

Anyone care to list some of the iron chelators that have been shown to be effective?

For Iron ...

IP6 ... currently I am taking Jarrow

Also for Mercury .....

NAC
Chlorella
Garlic

Edited by mikeinnaples, 13 December 2007 - 07:36 PM.

[senseix]

Anyone care to list some of the iron chelators that have been shown to be effective?

For Iron ...

IP6 ... currently I am taking Jarrow

Also for Mercury .....

NAC
Chlorella
Garlic

Thanks mikeinnaples for the quick response, i am eye balling me some jarrows now, they have two formulas at the place i get my supplements from. Could someone explain which formula would be more effective and possibly why?

1. Serving size 1 Capsule
Amount Per Capsule %DV
CALCIUM-MAGNESIUM INOSITOL HEXAPHOSPHATE 615 mg *
Yielding:
IP6 500 mg *
Calcium 85 mg 9%
Magnesium 30 mg 8%


2. Serving size 1 Capsule
Amount Per Capsule %DV
CALCIUM-MAGNESIUM INOSITOL HEXAPHOSPHATE 367 mg *
Yielding:
IP6 300 mg *
Calcium 51 mg 1%
Magnesium 16 mg 4%
Gamma Oryzanol 50 mg *
Ferulic Acid 50 mg *

[mikeinnaples]

Well I can't really tell you which works better and why other than I trust Jarrow.

I can tell you that I started IP6 by taking 1.5g for a few weeks straight, then pulling back to a maintenance level of 500mg / day. I donate blood every two months. For a period of a week after donating I stop the IP6 all together. I have been taking it for about a year now and have yet to become anemic, so I am guessing either I am regulating my dosage to counteract excess from diet correctly, I am not taking enough to get rid of the excess built up over time (or havent gotten there yet).

My ideal for iron levels in my body would be bordering on anemia, but just above.... it is a nasty nasty thing to have floating around in your system. I plan on having my iron tested during my next doctor visit.

[luv2increase]

Anyone care to list some of the iron chelators that have been shown to be effective?

IP6 It is the best, and it is sold everywhere. I used it for a couple weeks but discontinued due to the fact that it needs to be taken on an empty stomach with nothing else at all.

Also, the best thing to probably do is donate your blood regularly.

There are also pharmaceutical agents used to chelate iron, but they come with a wide array of nasty side-effects typical of anything pharmaceutical really.

Edited by luv2increase, 13 December 2007 - 07:59 PM.

[speda1]

Anyone care to list some of the iron chelators that have been shown to be effective?

As an alternative to chelation, regularly donating blood can reduce iron overload.

[drmz]

Is IP6 intake enough when eating nuts daily (about 100 gr) ?
Or is it recommended for to take this as a supplement for short periods ? I assume you need more magnesium when supplementing with IP6 ?


after a little reading":

Therapeutic Methods For Iron Elimination:



1. Reduce Iron Exposure. This may sound obvious, but it is usually overlooked by those who care for iron-toxic patients. The diet should be restricted with elimination or drastic reduction of white flour products with iron, red meats, dark greens for a time, and perhaps foods such as molasses and red beets. Vitamin preparations and even prescription medications need to be checked carefully for iron content. Avoid iron cookware and check the iron content of the drinking water, especially if well water is used for drinking. Other, less common exposures include one’s occupation, colored inks, air pollution and others listed earlier in this paper.



2. Bloodletting. Leeches or phlebotomy (removing blood by intravenous needle) have been and are presently used commonly to reduce iron levels in cases of polycythemia and other disorders involving excessive iron.

These methods work excellently for removing iron. The advantages of this method are it is very fast (too fast) and it is relatively easy for the patient.

On the subject of bloodletting, it is, perhaps, no coincidence that those who give blood often live longer than those who receive many blood transfusions, a very dangerous pattern of medicine that needs to change. The problem with receiving blood, however, is not so much the iron, which is often needed, as infections that are blood-borne and hard to detect at the blood bank.

Adverse effects of bloodletting include:

1) Fatigue and weakness temporarily, at least.

2) Depletion, possibly, of many other nutrients besides iron. This is potentially a very devastating side effect in some cases of iron excess that can worsen the iron condition.

3) Masking of the real problem, since bloodletting does not address deeper causes of iron toxicity. In other words, this method does not restore true health.

4) Subtle defects in the body may show up with repeated bloodletting, as the blood carries much more than just minerals. Removing blood on a frequent basis carries other subtle risks for this reason.



2. Chelating Drugs. Iron chelators such as deferoxamie, penecillamine or even EDTA to some degree will remove some iron. Advantages of this method are ease and safety, relatively, of these methods in comparison with bloodletting. Problems with drug chelators are that other vital minerals and other substances may be removed, toxicity of the substance itself, especially if administered improperly, and not addressing the underlying causes.

Chelation may in fact address some causes if it is able to remove lead, cadmium and other toxic metals. However, chelation can also worsen mineral imbalances in some people, especially those with low tissue calcium or magnesium or zinc levels.



3. Natural Chelating Agents. These include green tea extract, a very interesting supplement. One can drink green tea, but it is not as effective as the extract that contains concentrated polyphenols and tannins. These tend to absorb iron and prevent its absorption into the body. It can also extract some iron from the intestinal walls. Four to ten capsules daily are neede, each with a polyphenol content of about 300 mg at least, according to Disease Prevention And Treatment, published by the Life Extension Foundation, 3rd edition.

Another chelator is vitamin C, except for the difficulty that vitamin C enhances iron absorption, so is less useful unless given intravenously. Another substance used is phytic acid found in some grains or in preparations such as IP-6. This natural method works by inhibiting absorption of iron from the intestine. It does not remove most stored iron, however, but will do some good. As an aside, bread is cooked by baking because adding the yeast and other ingredients and baking the flour destroys the phytic acid in the wheat. This is an important reason why bread should be baked and not eaten in an unleavened state.

Advantages of this method are low toxicity, with the exception of the IP-6, a powerful chelating agent, for which reason we prefer to call it a drug as it can remove much more than iron (such as zinc), causing deficiencies and gravely upsetting body chemistry in some individuals. It needs to be used with care.

Other problems with the natural chelators is they do not address the causes, as with the other methods. They just lower iron, which is only one aspect of the problem.



4. Iron Antagonists. Certain food items and nutritional supplements can help reduce 1) iron absorption, 2) iron uptake by the cells or 3) help eliminate more iron through mechanisms other than chelation.

Above we discussed phytic acid, for example, a chemical that can inhibit iron aborption. Others are molybdenum, copper, zinc, manganese and other trace minerals as well.

Supplementing with these minerals, in foods or pill forms, can help reduce iron absorption and can even help the body eliminate some iron.

Food sources of antagonists often work best. Of course, the foods must not be high in iron as well, as is the case with meats, for example. Red meats are high in zinc and copper, but also high in iron. White meats are better, such as chicken, as it has less iron and still has some zinc and a little copper.

Sulfur is a potent iron antagonist, especially from meats. This mineral can help eliminate some iron through a type of chelation process, though not identical to the use of the chelating agents. Sulfur, selenium and other nutrients also help the liver process all toxic amounts of metals, including iron.

Products to support the liver and kidneys can also help the body remove iron. These include herbs such as milk thistle, dandelion root and many others.

Pancreatic enzymes can also be helpful to assist the body to produce plenty of bile to help eliminate iron.

The skin is another route to help the body remove iron. This is discussed at length in the Sauna Therapy book and article on www.drlwilson.com.

Finally, a program combining all the above is the finest way to eliminate iron, in our view. These are properly called nutritional balancing programs, as they combine six or seven methods at once for a synergistic approach that is the most powerful and safest method by far.

Edited by drmz, 13 December 2007 - 09:27 PM.

[krillin]

I rely on footstrike hemolysis.

[DukeNukem]

I totally buy into the idea that excess iron is bad, and I take 1 gram of IP-6 daily. Not to mention, IP-6 is a potent agent against cancer formation.

IP-6 is likely one of the top supps that men, especially, should be taking. Also, women over 45. I'd rate it as a top 15 supp for life extension and health.

[sUper GeNius]

I totally buy into the idea that excess iron is bad, and I take 1 gram of IP-6 daily. Not to mention, IP-6 is a potent agent against cancer formation.

IP-6 is likely one of the top supps that men, especially, should be taking. Also, women over 45. I'd rate it as a top 15 supp for life extension and health.

Could I ask what you think the top 15 are?

[Mind]

You could ask...not a bad question, but it would be off-topic.

I think Duke already created a thread about this. I'll search around to see if I can find it.

[lucid]

Donating blood twice a year is a great idea.
Even if the studies suggesting it decreases your odds for a myocardial infarction are false, you are helping others out.

Cohort study of relation between donating blood and risk of myocardial infarction in 2682 men in eastern finland

We investigated the incidence of acute myocardial infarctions in participants in the Kuopio ischaemic heart disease risk factor study.3 During 1984-9 we carried out baseline examinations of 2682 (83%) of the 3235 men aged 42, 48, 54, or 60 whom we had invited. We obtained data on the subjects' donating blood by record linkage to files of the local Red Cross office. We registered and verified all myocardial infarctions, definite or possible, between the baseline examinations and the end of 1992.2 The mean follow up time was 5.5 years, and, with multiple infarctions, we considered only the first. We used Cox's proportional hazard's analyses to compare the occurrence of cardiac events in blood donors and in non-donors.

In the 24 months before the baseline examinations 153 (5.7%) of the 2682 participants had donated blood. During follow up, one (0.7%) of the donors experienced an acute myocardial infarction compared with 226 (9.8%) of the 2529 non-donors (P<0.001 for difference). Table 1) shows that, in a multivariate model adjusted for the main coronary risk factors, the blood donors' risk of acute myocardial infarction was 86% less than that of the non-donors (relative risk 0.14, 95% confidence interval 0.02 to 0.97, P=0.047). Additional adjustment for a large number of measurements of medical history, health state, health practices, and psychosocial characteristics attenuated this association only marginally.

another study:

Researchers at the Kansas University Medical Center in Kansas City have found that non-smoking men who donated blood had a 30% reduced risk for cardiovascular events such as heart attack, bypass, and stroke than non-donors. Findings were published on August 27 in the British journal Heart.
Included in the study were 3,855 participants in the Nebraska Diet Heart Survey. Subjects were a minimum of 40 years old, with no history of heart disease at the study's outset. Seven to eight years later, in 1992 or 1993, researchers contacted the group to determine whether any participants had died, donated blood, or experienced cardiovascular events such as heart attacks, chest pain, angioplasty, or bypass. Six hundred fifty five subjects had been blood donors and 3,200 subjects had not donated blood.
Non-smoking men who had donated blood within the last three years of the survey experienced the greatest benefit: a 30% reduced risk of having a heart attack or experiencing other cardiovascular events. This group of blood donors, non-smoking men, was the only group that appeared to benefit from a reduction in heart disease risk. Women donors and male donors who smoked did not have any difference in cardiac events from non-donors. Participants who donated more frequently than one unit in the three-year period did not benefit from a greater reduction in heart disease risk.

While you don't want to donate blood if you have low blood iron levels, if you are a guy over the age of 21 ish then its probably a good idea to consider donating twice a year. (that comes out to the amount of blood women menstruate over the course of a year, then i guess scale up for your body size (I try to donate 3x a year)).

Edited by lucid, 14 December 2007 - 02:50 AM.

[stephen_b]

I attribute my high iron level to going a bit overboard (or at least timing my dosing incorrectly) on vitamin C, which makes vegetable iron 5-10x more bioavailable than it would otherwise be. Those taking grams of vitamin C might want to avoid doing so when eating iron containing veggies like tofu or spinach.

Stephen

[luv2increase]

I attribute my high iron level to going a bit overboard (or at least timing my dosing incorrectly) on vitamin C, which makes vegetable iron 5-10x more bioavailable than it would otherwise be. Those taking grams of vitamin C might want to avoid doing so when eating iron containing veggies like tofu or spinach.

Stephen

I always take 2.5g of ascorbic acid with my other empty stomach supps atleast an hour before eating. This, I hope, will help. Either way, I'm going to donate my blood every 4 months along with taking 1.5g of IP-6 daily. I know it doesn't help, but I take a tsp of chlorella daily which has a high iron content. Although, it is a good chelator of other harmful heavy metals.

You have to remember though, it is important to take a good multi whilst taking lots of chelators. The reason being that beneficial metals will be getting excreted from your system as well as the bad. A lot of people don't realize that ALA is an excellent chelator, especially for mercury. You should always take chlorella while taking ALA IMO because the ALA will just redistribute mercury throughout your body.

Maybe every person should get intravenous EDTA therapy every 5 or 10 years of their lives? It would also help to stray from cheap iron fortified foods.

Edited by luv2increase, 14 December 2007 - 06:27 PM.

[Mind]

I mentioned the overmineralization theory of earlier in this thread so I thought I might as well post this video here as well. Sardi produces an 8 minute video explaining the overmineralization theory of aging.

Please try to leave Sardi's shifting resv formulations and marketing tactics out of the discussion. I think his theory is useful if you want to slow aging. As mentioned earlier in this thread, iron (especially non-heme iron) seems to be bad for overall health and is a large component of lipofuscin. Just chelating and/or slowing the accumulation of minerals will not reverse aging. We need to get rid of the lipofuscin (and other junk - ala SENS)

[madbrain]

Does anyone here believe this sounds credible?

I'm not sure about these papers, but I can provide anecdotal evidence that for me, taking 40 mg of supplemental iron a daily has immediate serious adverse effects for me, blood-filled diarrhea. And these problems go away if I stop taking the iron. I tried the experience a few times with different amounts and forms of iron, always with the same results. Iron is one of the few supplements that I have thrown away altogether and vowed never to take again ! I take a men's multi (Now adam) without iron. I'm 32.

[Lufega]

Yes, it's harmful! Supplementing with too much Iron allows Magneto to control your body. Gotta watch out for the old guy



Sorry, I couldn't resist!

[woly]

So is it my understanding that IP6 only chelates iron that is in the digestive tract?

[Lufega]

On the other hand, Iron injected directed onto the substantia nigra induced Parkinson's. (link)

[suspire]

How much IP6 are folks taking and for what age range? I'm in my mid 30s (male) and I'm trying to decide how much IP6 to take. Any advice?