21 replies to this topic

[stephen_b]

I am trying to ramp up my miles from where I am now (about 5 miles) to marathon shape. I'm trying to run at least twice a week for the moment (will increase to 3x/week). I'd like to keep short runs to about 3 or 4 miles but increase the distance of the long run. My goal for marathoning is to finish a race under 4 hours (I'm 43 years old; the three I've completed have been at about 4 1/2 hours).

As I extend my mileage, I get soreness, which is to be expected. I would like to get some feedback about how I might use supplements to help with recovery and endurance. Thanks!

Stephen

[luv2increase]

I would say a combination of grape seed extract, pine bark extract, pycnogenol, astaxanthin, and broccoli sprout extract along with adaptogenic herbs. You could try goji, mangosteen, pomegranate, and noni extracts as well. I'm actually taking alot of these currently and will be adding. I also noticed that taking piracetam, ala, and alcar greatly enhanced by endurance during long distance running.

[health_nutty]

astaxanthin for general recovery and glucosamine for your joints.

[luv2increase]

astaxanthin for general recovery and glucosamine for your joints.

Glucosamine is good, but it may be possible to get by with doing the above with added fish oil? There would be no reason to not add glucosamine though. I don't particularly find anything appealing with chondroitin. I do, however, think that MSM is a worthwhile addition to your joint health program. Over at bodybuilding.com, they take particular interest in cissus quadrangularis. I actually bought a bottle a couple years ago but never got around to taking it due to an injured shoulder acquired days before my package had arrived.

[yucca06]

Rhodiola.

[stephen_b]

Thanks for the suggestions. Using pub med and astaxanthin:

Astaxanthin (PMID 17015959): In male mice, the "astaxanthin group showed a significant increase in swimming time to exhaustion as compared to the control group". [...] "These results suggest that improvement in swimming endurance by the administration of astaxanthin is caused by an increase in utilization of fatty acids as an energy source."

PMID 12626126: "Astaxanthin limits exercise-induced skeletal and cardiac muscle damage in mice"

PMID: 16286671: "Astaxanthin supplementation does not attenuate muscle injury following eccentric exercise in resistance-trained men." Hmm, maybe it's a better match for aerobic exercise than weight training.

PMID: 17503877: Here's a meta-study, "The role of nutritional supplements in the prevention and treatment of resistance exercise-induced skeletal muscle injury." From the abstract, "The topic of exercise-induced skeletal muscle injury has received considerable attention in recent years. Likewise, strategies to minimize the injury resulting from heavy resistance exercise have been studied."Those nutrients include the antioxidant vitamin C (ascorbic acid) and vitamin E (tocopherol), N-acetyl-cysteine, flavonoids, L-carnitine, astaxanthin, beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate, creatine monohydrate, essential fatty acids, branched-chain amino acids, bromelain, proteins and carbohydrates." Among the conclusions, "there appears to be a potential role for certain supplements (vitamin C, vitamin E, flavonoids, and L-carnitine)".

This last study was focused on "resistance exercise-induced muscle injury". I don't know if running falls into that category.

In a double blind study on Finnish men (PMID: 17685090), "levels of plasma 12- and 15-hydroxy fatty acids were reduced statistically significantly in the astaxanthin group" (they used 4 mg capsules twice daily).

Whew, lots of info. Does anyone use taurine for exercise recovery, by the way?

Stephen

Also, see this study ("Sports Performance Benefits from Taking Natural Astaxanthin Characterized by Visual Acuity and Muscle Fatigue Improvement in Humans"). After supplementing with 6mg astaxanthin for four weeks, "serum lactic acid concentration at 2 minutes after activity (1,200m running) of the treatment group was significantly lower than that of the control one".

[missminni]

whoops, sorry I somehow did a duplicate post.
mod or admin please delete this one. Thanks

Edited by missminni, 13 December 2007 - 09:56 PM.

[missminni]

I am trying to ramp up my miles from where I am now (about 5 miles) to marathon shape. I'm trying to run at least twice a week for the moment (will increase to 3x/week). I'd like to keep short runs to about 3 or 4 miles but increase the distance of the long run. My goal for marathoning is to finish a race under 4 hours (I'm 43 years old; the three I've completed have been at about 4 1/2 hours).

As I extend my mileage, I get soreness, which is to be expected. I would like to get some feedback about how I might use supplements to help with recovery and endurance. Thanks!

Stephen

DMSO will help the soreness.

ETA~That's what they use on race horses.

[krillin]

I've tried most of these things, but the only thing that noticeably reduced soreness was CoQ10. But I'm a freak with regards to this stuff. It also got rid of gum bleeding and took several minutes off my 5K time.

[stephen_b]

I've tried most of these things, but the only thing that noticeably reduced soreness was CoQ10. But I'm a freak with regards to this stuff. It also got rid of gum bleeding and took several minutes off my 5K time.

Actually, I've noticed a nice increase in endurance with ubiquinol (50 mg/2x daily). There might be something to that.

Stephen

[Shepard]

The basic ones to look into are going to be things for cell-volumization, lactate inhibition, and joint protection.

[magnelectro]

Beta-Alanine (to increase carnosine synthesis) will prevent muscle soreness. Buy in bulk and dissolve a couple grams in water and drink throughout the day to maximize the benefits.

[ajnast4r]

i would avoid any antioxidant supplements while training as you risk losing progressive adaptations... but astaxanthin is one to look into.

Edited by ajnast4r, 18 December 2009 - 05:29 PM.

[health_nutty]

I didn't notice anything from astaxanthin. Resveratrol is amazing for my endurance recovery (and endurance).

Edited by health_nutty, 18 December 2009 - 05:39 PM.

[zorba990]

I am trying to ramp up my miles from where I am now (about 5 miles) to marathon shape. I'm trying to run at least twice a week for the moment (will increase to 3x/week). I'd like to keep short runs to about 3 or 4 miles but increase the distance of the long run. My goal for marathoning is to finish a race under 4 hours (I'm 43 years old; the three I've completed have been at about 4 1/2 hours).

As I extend my mileage, I get soreness, which is to be expected. I would like to get some feedback about how I might use supplements to help with recovery and endurance. Thanks!

Stephen

IME Vitamin C helps significantly to reduce DOMS once you get enough
in. I usualy take 1-2 grams a day and then 2 more after each exercise session
sometime more.

D-Ribose (I Had debatable results with this but worth a try)

I use these two if I'm getting any orthostatic hypotension
Pantothenic Acid (B5) 250mg Calcium pantothenate under the tongue once or twice a day
Salt (Currently use Himalayan Pink Salt) 1/4 tsp once or twice a day seems to do it for me
when I get depleted.

Liposomal Vitamin C for capillary adaptation
Rutin/Quercetin for Vein adaptation

For a boost Tyrosine or a bigger gun deprenyl.
Beta Alanine as a lactic acid buffer.

CES Device to lower cortisol to prevent over training syndrome.

[Healthy56]

I am trying to ramp up my miles from where I am now (about 5 miles) to marathon shape. I'm trying to run at least twice a week for the moment (will increase to 3x/week). I'd like to keep short runs to about 3 or 4 miles but increase the distance of the long run. My goal for marathoning is to finish a race under 4 hours (I'm 43 years old; the three I've completed have been at about 4 1/2 hours).

As I extend my mileage, I get soreness, which is to be expected. I would like to get some feedback about how I might use supplements to help with recovery and endurance. Thanks!

Stephen

Hi Stephen, others have suggested Rhodiola, so I'm only going to suggest a particular variant. There's an extract called MBS-13 which is really, really good. I take it daily for other reasons than yours, but the extract now comes packaged with some other ingredients that are really good to support recovery and physical endurance. I had a free sample, liked it, and bought it to combine with Mind Body & Spirit for my exercise program. It's ENERGY RESERVES, from the same company as Mind Body & Spirit (I get this online from proactivebio.com). I'm really amazed at how different the two are -- the Rhodiola in Energy Reserves is "tuned" to much more physical stimulation and recovery than most Rhodiola

[mikeinnaples]

As a fellow recreational marathoner myself (between 3:55 and 4:10 depending on the florida weather), I feel the following have assisted me with my running.

Prior to my runs:

R Lipoic Acid
ALCAR
BioCurcumin
Resveratrol
Quercetin

After my runs and and ongoing:

CoQ10



I realize the R Lipoic Acid probably doesnt assist with a specific run and is more long term beneficial form my running. The quercetin and resveratrol definately helps for a specific run for cardio and endurance and I have noticed less muscle fatigue and ability to push through it, especially the wall you can hit sometimes on your weekly long runs, with the Curcumin (maybe the anti-inflamatory benefits of it?).

I have long noticed benefits with soreness, cramping, and muscle fatigue with the CoQ10 ...but, I also take Simvistatin for my genetic cholesterol issues (as well as nicotinic acid, etc) and it is pretty much a given that CoQ10 assist with statins related muscle issues.

I suppse things like grapeseed would assist as well (and I do take it), but I suspect that would be more of a long term benefit to your running than anything immediate, much like the R Lipoic Acid.

[bran319]

I am trying to ramp up my miles from where I am now (about 5 miles) to marathon shape. I'm trying to run at least twice a week for the moment (will increase to 3x/week). I'd like to keep short runs to about 3 or 4 miles but increase the distance of the long run. My goal for marathoning is to finish a race under 4 hours (I'm 43 years old; the three I've completed have been at about 4 1/2 hours).

As I extend my mileage, I get soreness, which is to be expected. I would like to get some feedback about how I might use supplements to help with recovery and endurance. Thanks!

Stephen

Hi Stephen, others have suggested Rhodiola, so I'm only going to suggest a particular variant. There's an extract called MBS-13 which is really, really good. I take it daily for other reasons than yours, but the extract now comes packaged with some other ingredients that are really good to support recovery and physical endurance. I had a free sample, liked it, and bought it to combine with Mind Body & Spirit for my exercise program. It's ENERGY RESERVES, from the same company as Mind Body & Spirit (I get this online from proactivebio.com). I'm really amazed at how different the two are -- the Rhodiola in Energy Reserves is "tuned" to much more physical stimulation and recovery than most Rhodiola

It seems every post I read from you is a plug for this product. I hope you are at least getting free samples for all the work you are doing.

[RighteousReason]

The basic ones to look into are going to be things for cell-volumization, lactate inhibition, and joint protection.

Ya I want to know about joint protection

[stephen_b]

Hi Stephen, others have suggested Rhodiola, so I'm only going to suggest a particular variant. There's an extract called MBS-13 which is really, really good. I take it daily for other reasons than yours, but the extract now comes packaged with some other ingredients that are really good to support recovery and physical endurance. I had a free sample, liked it, and bought it to combine with Mind Body & Spirit for my exercise program. It's ENERGY RESERVES, from the same company as Mind Body & Spirit (I get this online from proactivebio.com). I'm really amazed at how different the two are -- the Rhodiola in Energy Reserves is "tuned" to much more physical stimulation and recovery than most Rhodiola

Thanks. Did proactivebio stop selling Swedish Herbal products? I still have some Adapt 232 left and do like it. I also like the New Chapter product too. The Verde Botanica product has 300 mg plus bioperene (which gives me pause), which some might find too much. I did try it though and found it worked.

In general I've been very pleased with my response to rhodiola.

[lynx]

citrulline malate is for aerobics what creatine is for anaerobics.

[stephen_b]

Wow, did I really start this thread 7 years ago? I wanted to give an update with two supplements that have made a great difference in my running.

 

Two issues that I have been struggling with over the past several years:

 

1) sore/tight muscles and slow recovery from challenging runs, like speed workouts or long runs near the end of the marathon training season, and

2) issue with carb utilization specifically in the exercise intensity level between pure fat burning and the anaerobic threshold.

 

As a 50-year-old runner, pregnenolone has made a world of difference in how fast my muscles recover and in soreness levels. I have been having success with 25 mg 2 or 3 times daily. I have tried just taking electrolyte with some minor success with potassium gluconate, but it hasn't made near the difference that pregnenolone has.

 

For carb utilization, I am just amazed at how much of a difference thiamine has made at a dose of 100-300 mg. It lowers the heart rate required to sustain a given effort very nicely. In my experience it takes effect very quickly. 1/2 to 1 tsp of glycine at night helps with sleep and I believe with glycogen repletion as well.