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Racetams: 2008 Reviews


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#1 Rags847

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 08:11 AM


I though that this would be a useful idea.

Instead of subjective experience/anecdotal recountings of taking Racetams scattered over many threads, put you 2008 Racetam reviews all right here - in one thread.

Qts you might want address in your review:

How long have you taken the Racetam(s)?
Which Racetam do you take or which combination or Racetams do you take?
What dose do you use?
What Choline source do you use?
What is your frequency rate (daily/as needed)?
Do you cycle?
What effects have you noticed?
How effective has it been for you?

A lot of info on the Racetams at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racetams


Racetam
Racetams are a class of nootropic drugs that share a pyrrolidine nucleus.
Mechanism
The racetams are understood to work by activating glutamate receptors that are colocalized with cholinergic receptors, thus increasing the firing of the latter. The racetams consequently increase memory capacity by nearly the same method as the acetylcholinesterase inhibitors.
Examples
External links



Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia © 2001-2006 Wikipedia contributors (Disclaimer)
This article is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License.
Last updated on Tuesday December 25, 2007 at 15:59:57 PST (GMT -0800)
View this article at Wikipedia.org - Edit this article at Wikipedia.org - Donate to the Wikimedia Foundation

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#2 Rags847

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 08:17 AM

<bumpity bump bump>
ttt

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#3 bvcw

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 07:33 PM

The nootropic forum doesn't appear to be very active...I'll write something then.

I've used Piracetam, Choline, Bacopa, Fish Oil, and Ashwagandha as nootropics. I am using the Ashwagandha and Bacopa mostly as a stress reliever, but it has actually helped me more than Piracetam. I first started with Piracetam a year ago after I bought some from Unique Nutrition. I was taking 800mg in the morning at first, and it was enough to make me feel energized and happy (or mildly euphoric). I did not take it with choline since I didn't know about it. After a while, I started becoming stressed and burnt out from my work, so I increased the dosage. Once I get to about 4 g/day, I start getting headaches, so reduced the dosage. Then I found out about choline, so I ordered Twinlab's 250g choline with 250g inositol. I thought the choline would relieve the "brain fog" that I got from being stressed out or from piracetam, but it didn't help. I stopped taking Piracetam, but still use choline and all those other supplements that I listed above. I find that choline improves my concentration and memory better than Piracetam and it does not give me brain fog. Overall, I would say that Racetams are not worth the cost. Exercise, a healthy lifestyle, and perhaps a little bit of choline is enough to help me perform well cognitively.

Edit: I have to add that soy milk helps with memory and learning too, probably because it contains Phosphatidylcholine.

Edited by bvcw, 02 June 2008 - 07:38 PM.


#4 samonakuba

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 08:06 AM

Thought I might as well add a review here...

I've taken Piracetam during 4 separate periods, each with slightly different surrounding circumstances but similar diets. Here's what happened each time. Your mileage may vary, of course. Oh, and the piracetam has always been from BN and I've always taken it with orange juice. :-)

--

First time (3 weeks)
: I had been taking 500mg ALCAR, Soy PS, a basic multi, and Phoschol PPC (1g). I was also drinking a glass or two of wheatgrass juice daily and going to the gym regularly. I had massive energy from just this much. At the gym I did cardio and some lifting. I had foresworn coffee, mostly because I'd become rather addicted to it, and also because the ALCAR did the trick just as well. At this point I tried to take Piracetam with just the PPC as a choline source, starting first at a total of 3-4 grams a day divided into three doses. That amount made me sleepy straight off the bat and produced a slight migraine headache by the end of the third week, so I stopped taking it for a while.

Second time (2 months): About a month later I got some Jarrow AGPC (250mg) and Jarrow Citicoline (250mg) and was using both of those and PPC as a choline source. I was no longer taking ALCAR more than once or twice a week, though around this time I was also experimenting with a lot of other things, like Rhodiola, chocamine, etc. Still working out regularly. I had yet to attribute anything specific to the piracetam, but with certain combinations, especially with chocamine/citicoline/ps/piracetam I would become positively euphoric after a good cardio workout. I'm tempted to attribute this to the combined effects of PS, CDP-choline, and chocamine, but I have not been able to reproduce the effect of this combination without piracetam being in the mix. Eventually I started getting headaches again, and so went cold-turkey on most of my supplements until the headaches went away.

Third time (4 months)
: About two months laterI reintroduced piracetam (twice a day, about 2.5g total), this time with BN choline citrate, BN AGPC powder, and PPC as my choline sources. When I started I also took PS on occasion (about three times a week) and ALCAR about once or twice a month. I was again a coffee-addict by this time so this was in addition to 1 or 2 cups of coffee a day. Here the effect was extremely pronounced: ideas all over the place, most of them fully formed almost of their own accord, though seeming to come about by the same sorts of processes that would previously have required some conscious thought and effort. Also, I gradually became extremely task-oriented and develop a distinct kind of meta-thinking that made for some very interesting thought experiments. Overall, I began to feel more "conscious." It's very hard to describe, but it was distinctly like what i've heard somebody refer to as piracetam "waking up" the brain. Eventually I ran out first of AGPC and then PPC, and continued with only choline citrate. AGPC had seemed to produce more focus and some kind of added visual acuity, and I'm convinced to this day that PPC has helped more than anything else with certain kinds of working memory tasks (I've been taking it for much longer than anything else.) Still, the idea-forming effect of piracetam continued for the last month or so of my taking choline citrate and piracetam only, with no other choline source. I didn't stop until I ran out of piracetam. I should note something else: at the beginning of the cycle I had tried to take ONLY piracetam and AGPC (since it's supposed to be the best choline source), but this gave me headaches. The headaches didn't go away until I added choline citrate. I was taking no other supplements for the last two months of this cycle except for a basic multivitamin, not even fish oil.

Fourth time: About three weeks ago I started again (twice a day, 2.5 grams). These days I work out a lot less than I did before, and I no longer drink wheat grass juice, but mostly orange and some pomegranate. I thought I'd try a AGPC/Piracetam only combination, without choline citrate, and one or two grams of daily fish oil to help out. Right now I'm two weeks into this. Before introducing piracetam I wanted to try AGPC on its own; by itself, AGPC made me slightly more focused and definitely more irritable. Combined with piracetam it seemed to do the same, though perhaps a little bit more of it; I also notice a brief and slight stimulant effect from the piracetam for a couple hours after I take it, with little of the old idea-forming effects. I've started to get headaches and a little fog, so I tried throwing DMAE into the mix. The effect is very clear; The headache goes away, replaced by robot-like focus characteristic of DMAE, but little in the way of piracetam-specific effects save perhaps for mild stimulation. I've yet to reintroduce choline citrate or PPC this time, so I can't differentiate between those two yet. And I've never taken a DMAE/piracetam combination regularly.

--

I hesitate to draw any definite *conclusions* from the above, though I can definitely say that in my own experience AGPC has never been enough for me when taking piracetam. I've taken a spoonful of AGPC for a couple days (an expensive proposition) and still gotten a headache about 3 hours after taking piracetam. This has never happened while taking a spoonful of choline citrate as a source, and even 300mg of DMAE gets rid of this, though I'm still a little iffy about taking the latter long term. Choline citrate is cheap so I'll probably be buying a bunch of that and trying the AGPC/choline citrate combination again and seeing if that produces the same results as last time. If it doesn't I'm going to think about getting another big bottle of PPC and test again. PPC doesn't get talked about much here, but for some reason I feel that I miss it; the effect is subtle but distinct -- it just seems to make ideas more easy to grab hold of and examine, which I've always liked. It's also got proven benefits for the liver and for cholesterol levels.

Edited by samonakuba, 02 July 2008 - 08:10 AM.


#5 stephen_b

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 03:49 PM

Interesting observations. Is it possible that piracetam/choline citrate is just the best combination for some reason? Maybe choline citrate form really brings the nootropic characteristics of piracetam out.

I've used citicoline and experienced mild benefits with piracetam, but with less focus than I'd like to have.

Stephen

#6 samonakuba

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Posted 02 July 2008 - 07:18 PM

Interesting observations. Is it possible that piracetam/choline citrate is just the best combination for some reason? Maybe choline citrate form really brings the nootropic characteristics of piracetam out.

I've used citicoline and experienced mild benefits with piracetam, but with less focus than I'd like to have.

Stephen


It's been a trusty enough combo for me personally, and it's cheap, though I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that it was the choline citrate that had the biggest effect (and it's not really reputed as such.) Also, DMAE/Piracetam actually seems to be the most *intense*, which is what some people are looking for, and makes me wonder what centrophexoine/piracetam might be like.

#7 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 04:07 AM

Piracetam: aka. NeuroLube

This is now my third week on Piracetam. It has changed my life. Period. Previously I was half-alive (despite an extensive set of vitamins and minerals). Constantly sleepy / dozing off during the day, foggy brain, mental tiredness all day.

No matter how much sleep I got (usually 8 hours) or how early a bedtime (9.00 rather than 10-11), these nasties never went away.

One day about four weeks ago I noticed the mention of Piracetam from an acquaintance during IRC chat. I quickly researched it and had my friend order some from eBay. While waiting for it to arrive I prayed and shivered in anticipation.

When it arrived at his house, I ran over with a spoon and took a teaspoon as soon as I arrived in the door! With a bit of nervousness too.

After 40 minutes I started noticing colors were brighter. I left his home and rode my bicycle home. While riding home I had an Albert Hoffman moment! Wow, everything was so damn sharp! The edges of things looked razor-sharp. Also, my distance vision was much better than it has been in years. Furthermore, the colors of everything were so saturated, and the difference in shades was very noticeable, much more so than usual.

As I rode down a side-street past an autobody shop with its garage-door open, some guy inside dropped a hand-wrench on the concrete floor. You know that nice ringing sound when a hardened steel tool hits concrete. But it sounded just so much more! Like some amazing bell it rung, and a moment later I replayed the sound like a frozen crystal inside my mind, CD-quality perfect. Like a jewel.

I smiled, the smile of one who has discovered something, a secret treasure hithero beyond imagining. As I finished my ride home, the sunset turned the field behind my house into a painting, each leaf of different trees standing out in shape and color, a watercolor for my sole enjoyment...

The next day I took my first teaspoon upon awaking (about 4 grams), then one/two more later in the afternoon. For the first time in MANY YEARS, the tiredness that had haunted me for so long had entirely vanished. Vanquished without a trace, I spent the day catching up on stuff and repeatedly looking at the art on my room's far wall, whose colors and lines were now remarkably sharp.

Since then I've tested the limits of this stuff. Both in time and space, my first week was most dramatic. I noticed during the second week tolerance or adaptation or just accomodation. The sharpness was still great but not super-razor-sharp, just razor-sharp. However, the tiredness only came back if I went for more than five hours between doses. It actually took until only two days ago before I committed to using about three grams four times per day, spaced at four hour intervals. That's my effectiveness range.

As for sleep, I now take a teaspoon right before bed. It slowed down the getting-to-sleep time for the first few days, but once adapted I now sleep deeper and far better than I have for years! Plus the dreams are damn vivid (way more than previously). And I wake up super refreshed.

Now, I used to try getting to bed at 8-9 pm rather than the usual 10.30-11.00p, in order to get more energy during the day. It worked only slightly, I would still get tired half an hour after waking, then again in the later afternoon.

Get this, for the last three weeks I've been getting to bed at 2.00a - 3.00a and waking up 7-8 hours later. Totally refreshed, working all day, not a trace of tiredness... in other words, I'm living the impossible and its not wearing off. I've already flatlined on the tolerance curve. Miracles never cease. This stuff will end the coffee business (I've only drank 1 cup of coffee in my life, when I was 16) and I don't take any other form of caffeine.

Now, side-effects. The first two days there was nothing at all, then on day three I noticed the beginning of a slight, barely-noticeable headache. I was already informed of the cause and was specifically anticipating it. However, I still took no choline source, but waited. The next day (day four) the headache had become stronger, more persistent, almost a distraction.

It was at this point that I became convinced that my brain was a victim of a progressive increase in acetylcholine receptor count (and/or sensitivity) per unit of production. So I biked out and bought two dozen extra large eggs. On returning, I took six and separated the yolks from their whites. Pouring the whites down the drain, I ate the six yolks raw.

One hour later the headache was gone without a trace (I never ever get headaches in normal life, btw.). Never did come back, because from that day to this I've been eating six raw egg yolks per day, sometimes cooking the whites and sometimes throwing them out. Raw egg yolks are an excellent source of choline, as well as cholesterol, lutein and lots of other valuable co-factors. Also, they are safe: don't believe the salmonella mythology. The infection is very rare, I've already eaten a dozen dozen and had no problem, but for the paranoid my advice is to eat some plain yoghurt with them. The lactobaccilli way outnumber and outcompete any salmonellas, and their natural antibiotics prevent the evil bacteria from surviving.

Don't assume that just because you're getting enough choline that it will end the headaches. Because choline has to be turned into acetylcholine, and that requires all kinds of enzymes, the most important of which is rate-limited by vitamin B5, also known as pantothenic acid. My friend ate tons of lechithin but that didn't end his headaches. He's a natural-foods nutso and doesn't take any b-complex. So I laid out the reality to him, and now he's trying it with 100mg per day of b-complex. That's probably just barely enough to stop his issue.

I've been taking 100-1200mg b-complex per day for decades, so never had the issue. Most recently I'd dropped my dose to only 100mg (which also provides 210mg choline as the bitartrate), so decided to double to 200mg. It seems this is an excellent dose. High doses of 600mg or more cause insomnia for me, and 1200mg caused numbness of the fingertips (peripheral neuralgia).

In conclusion, Piracetam is my miracle, the most important stuff I've ever taken in my life, and I'm going to stockpile hundreds of kilos of it just in case it is banned or becomes unavailable in the future. The improvements in my mental state have been progressive, not episodic.

After sleeping for eight hours after my last night dose, its already long cleared from my brain but my vision is still super sharp. Some of the advancement of each day remains to add to the next! This stuff is like having a bank account with positive balance, which earns interest.

Using depleting stimulants such as caffeine, etc. only withdraws from the brain's bio-account, causing painful crashes and withdrawals, and ultimately progressive loss of energy and premature aging. This material is a total replacement for those toxic drugs, one which protects and lubricates the brain. I am always at my best now, and have resumed projects left behind due to tiredness.

Finally, on the interactions with drugs. Before, I would smoke a whole bowl of cannabis and still only get medium-high. Now I smoke 1/3 to 1/2 of a bowl and I'm too high! Like, the feeling that it would be just unwise to take one more toke, because then I'd be just way over the line...

Now, cannabis is not particularly stimulating, but this stuff made it like LSD, brought back the psychedelic effect from years past. I cannot imagine what a stimulating psychedelic such as mushrooms, MDMA, LSD, etc. would be like. Let's just say it will be at least a 2:1 potency increase, judging by other user accounts. I don't have these materials to test, but if I do in the future a full and highly descriptive report will be issued on the double.

Plus, I am now so much more wordy! It is fun to talk in depth with others. I can put together much better sentences. I've had lots of new creative thoughts, from stabilizing unstable tokamak fusion plasmas to nanomachine x86 instruction execution with separate quantum sub-units for calculation and yet other quantum nanosensors for wholesale import of entroy from the nonquantized universe outside the device.

There is much much more to life, and my mind is waking up to it one day at a time. This is a gateway. Next stop on the track is Aniracetam. Even if none of the more potent racetams work, this stuff will still be enough.

I just can't understand why and hardly believe that such a simple molecule could make so much difference. Sometimes I imagine how it vibrates in water solution, how it bounces around and touches various structures inside the cells. But nothing short of a physics simulation on a supercomputer is going to really show why it works. Those are expensive and far between, devoted right now to more profitable enterprises.

Finally, real health does not have the kind of short-term high-revenue profitability that is the lifeblood of today's short-circuit economy. Thus it is very much up to the individual to research and keep digging, to go beyond what is offered on shelves and advertised on TV/radio/print.

And I didn't need the Alpha-GPC scam to get my choline up. Eggs are not only cheaper, but my money feeds real farmers in my province, not some 24x overpriced enterprise that thinks it can milk consumers for something that's not more than two or three times as potent as common food sources, such as egg yolk and lecithin. That kind of product is not within my economy, which is highly efficient in value per dollar and runs on a sustainable basis.

I'd encourage everyone to take this stuff, as much and as often as possible. Like vitamin C, there are no downsides to megadoses except for the wallet (a bit). Except no diarrhea.

My current dose is four teaspoons per day, spaced evenly, with the first at wakeup and last at bedtime. Each teaspoon probably weighs 4-5 grams, so total 16-20 grams per day. I'll measure on a friend's scale and update this post with the real quantity shortly.

The God of chemistry handed me my mind back, made new and fresh once again. As the neurolube drips from its surface, he winks at me, saying quietly as he walks into the sunet, 'enjoy...'.

Edited by Isochroma, 16 July 2008 - 04:41 AM.


#8 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 05:19 AM

Closer to today, I've been noticing a feeling, an emotion which is a mix of relief and something else. I feel so bad that I didn't know about piracetam before, and wonder how I could have missed it for so long, in my extensive researches online.

Then my heart and mind turn to the System, and how it isn't legal here in Canada to either buy or sell any racetam (none have a DIN number, which is required for that purpose). Instead, I'm surrounded by sheeple doing dumb (legal, approved) drugs which just burn them out.

So I decided after receiving the piracetam, to enlighten my few friends. To make them become more alive, like they used to be. To add value to their years, if not years to their lives (this stuff thins the blood by decreasing platelet aggregation, thus reducing the incidence of stroke, etc.).

Many have found it useful, a lot didn't notice the subtle effects. One became jittery because I fed him a teaspoon after he'd drunk a cup of coffee. I told him it would potentiate stimulants, or rather potentiate the brain's capacity to respond to all kinds of stimulation.

What's most frustrating is that some of the most mentally sick that I know, like someone I saw today, are so stuck that they can't even remember to take the sample I gave them days ago. Their sickness is an impediment to a successful recovery. Also I've seen more than my share of paranoia and irrational rejection, like the guy down the hall who shrank back in fear when I showed him the tub of powder, giving me a speech about the 'evil drug'. Then he went outside to down his six-pack of beer (bottles) as usual. I didn't mention that this evil powder is used to prevent and reverse alcoholic brain damage. He's probably beyond redemption.

Also let me take a moment to rail myself, against the sellers of crap drugs like caffeine, which is a vast legal empire dedicated to destroying the mental energy and physical health of its customers. Now, I'm not a prohibitionist: I believe all citizens have the natural right to purchase and use anything they want, and that no government has the right to take such a basic human dignity away.

However, there has been a taking: our government has effectively denied us from making a personal or larger business of selling, at least in Canada, drugs which are easily proven safe, and demonstrably superior to existing legal ones. The stupidity just goes on and on, like some slow-motion polygenerational tragedy. The system thrives on selling junk that leaves its users needing more, lots more. And the incumbent poisons have an absolute advantage, against anything new no matter how long and well proven.

Not that nootropics don't also require regular dosing, but that due to their building effects their use leaves a net positive reaction rather than negative, decreasing or maintaining long-term consumption rates. While the depleting drugs burn out their users' brains, requiring higher doses with increasing age.

Edited by Isochroma, 16 July 2008 - 05:24 AM.


#9 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 12:55 AM

Piracetam continues to be a miracle! This stuff is magic in powdered form. I now have several kilos in stock at all times.

Last week I tried Aniracetam. In either 5g or 500mg doses it makes my head feel underwater. Like fewer thoughts, slowed down, almost exactly the opposite of piracetam. So I'm giving the rest away.

#10 Matthias

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 08:57 AM

hi Nazcalito,
you confused the report-button with the reply-button :)

I've tried piracetam, oxiracetam, and aniracetam, but not for about 6 months. Aniracetam made me tired and I did not like it. I liked oxiracetam the best. I think I got pramiracetam once from international-antiaging a long time ago but I don't remember much about it.

(edited by Matthias: post restored)

#11 alexd

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 03:35 PM

hi Nazcalito,
you confused the report-button with the reply-button :)

I've tried piracetam, oxiracetam, and aniracetam, but not for about 6 months. Aniracetam made me tired and I did not like it. I liked oxiracetam the best. I think I got pramiracetam once from international-antiaging a long time ago but I don't remember much about it.

(edited by Matthias: post restored)


Isochroma. I think it is great that you are having a great experience with Piracetam. I too have found it to be extremely beneficial. I take 400mg of it in the morning and another four hundred at around 5 pm. It is taken in conjunction with choline chloride. I also take 100 mg Provigil once a day in the morning. They seem to be synergistic. Just to note I also take 150 ml of generic Wellbutrin XL made by Teva in the morning. A knowledgeable Dr. said it would be syynergistic with the Provigil. I also take Deplin which is l-methylfolate and that has allowed me to take 1/2 the dosages to get a larger effect than before I did.

I experience a heightening of the senses and a similar experience with cannabis. I am bipolar 2 and my wife says the current regime make me level, which is the goal. It took a long time to find this combination that works with me. I now find myself chipper. That is unique to me since previously I tended to be dour. A tip of the hat to the forum since I found out about these nootropics here.

One thing in your post concerns me. That is the number of eggs you eat a day. That might be raising your Cholesterol to undesirable levels which could impair your circulatory system. I would like to strongly suggest that you get a blood test done now and again in about 3 months to see if that might be a problem. If your Dr. suggests it is too high then get the choline from a different source. I bought choline chloride (online) and a 1/4 teaspoon full ingested first under the tongue before swallowing gives me quite the boost. If I ate those eggs I would be screwed. My wife on the other hand has low Cholesterol no matter what she eats. You need to find out what is right for you. Please take this seriously. No point in enjoying all your senses during a premature heart attack. Another approach you might take is to consume beta sterols (look this up in Swanson vitamins or similar.) You take these BEFORE you have a meal and the plant sterols block the pathways of adsorption in our gut.
The easy answer is to get the choline chloride or another choline source. The stuff does not taste very good but I have found it to be very effective.

Good luck to you!

#12 outsider

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 11:42 PM

Piracetam continues to be a miracle! This stuff is magic in powdered form. I now have several kilos in stock at all times.

Last week I tried Aniracetam. In either 5g or 500mg doses it makes my head feel underwater. Like fewer thoughts, slowed down, almost exactly the opposite of piracetam. So I'm giving the rest away.



I was certain that you would not like aniracetam. It's always the same thing. If you love weaker racetams you will not like stronger ones because your brain has to be able to process it. If you can't process the acethylcholine pathways easily your mind will be constipated on it. The only exception would be nefiracetam which I can take myself easily without the foggy side effect that I would get from aniracetam.

One time I took aniracetam with lemon balm and didn't notice any mental side effects probably because lemon balm stimulate acethylcholine receptors in a good way.

Edited by outsider, 04 July 2009 - 11:43 PM.


#13 cougar

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 07:01 PM

Piracetam: aka. NeuroLube

This is now my third week on Piracetam. It has changed my life. Period. Previously I was half-alive (despite an extensive set of vitamins and minerals). Constantly sleepy / dozing off during the day, foggy brain, mental tiredness all day.

No matter how much sleep I got (usually 8 hours) or how early a bedtime (9.00 rather than 10-11), these nasties never went away.

One day about four weeks ago I noticed the mention of Piracetam from an acquaintance during IRC chat. I quickly researched it and had my friend order some from eBay. While waiting for it to arrive I prayed and shivered in anticipation.

When it arrived at his house, I ran over with a spoon and took a teaspoon as soon as I arrived in the door! With a bit of nervousness too.

After 40 minutes I started noticing colors were brighter. I left his home and rode my bicycle home. While riding home I had an Albert Hoffman moment! Wow, everything was so damn sharp! The edges of things looked razor-sharp. Also, my distance vision was much better than it has been in years. Furthermore, the colors of everything were so saturated, and the difference in shades was very noticeable, much more so than usual.

As I rode down a side-street past an autobody shop with its garage-door open, some guy inside dropped a hand-wrench on the concrete floor. You know that nice ringing sound when a hardened steel tool hits concrete. But it sounded just so much more! Like some amazing bell it rung, and a moment later I replayed the sound like a frozen crystal inside my mind, CD-quality perfect. Like a jewel.

I smiled, the smile of one who has discovered something, a secret treasure hithero beyond imagining. As I finished my ride home, the sunset turned the field behind my house into a painting, each leaf of different trees standing out in shape and color, a watercolor for my sole enjoyment...

The next day I took my first teaspoon upon awaking (about 4 grams), then one/two more later in the afternoon. For the first time in MANY YEARS, the tiredness that had haunted me for so long had entirely vanished. Vanquished without a trace, I spent the day catching up on stuff and repeatedly looking at the art on my room's far wall, whose colors and lines were now remarkably sharp.

Since then I've tested the limits of this stuff. Both in time and space, my first week was most dramatic. I noticed during the second week tolerance or adaptation or just accomodation. The sharpness was still great but not super-razor-sharp, just razor-sharp. However, the tiredness only came back if I went for more than five hours between doses. It actually took until only two days ago before I committed to using about three grams four times per day, spaced at four hour intervals. That's my effectiveness range.

As for sleep, I now take a teaspoon right before bed. It slowed down the getting-to-sleep time for the first few days, but once adapted I now sleep deeper and far better than I have for years! Plus the dreams are damn vivid (way more than previously). And I wake up super refreshed.

Now, I used to try getting to bed at 8-9 pm rather than the usual 10.30-11.00p, in order to get more energy during the day. It worked only slightly, I would still get tired half an hour after waking, then again in the later afternoon.

Get this, for the last three weeks I've been getting to bed at 2.00a - 3.00a and waking up 7-8 hours later. Totally refreshed, working all day, not a trace of tiredness... in other words, I'm living the impossible and its not wearing off. I've already flatlined on the tolerance curve. Miracles never cease. This stuff will end the coffee business (I've only drank 1 cup of coffee in my life, when I was 16) and I don't take any other form of caffeine.

Now, side-effects. The first two days there was nothing at all, then on day three I noticed the beginning of a slight, barely-noticeable headache. I was already informed of the cause and was specifically anticipating it. However, I still took no choline source, but waited. The next day (day four) the headache had become stronger, more persistent, almost a distraction.

It was at this point that I became convinced that my brain was a victim of a progressive increase in acetylcholine receptor count (and/or sensitivity) per unit of production. So I biked out and bought two dozen extra large eggs. On returning, I took six and separated the yolks from their whites. Pouring the whites down the drain, I ate the six yolks raw.

One hour later the headache was gone without a trace (I never ever get headaches in normal life, btw.). Never did come back, because from that day to this I've been eating six raw egg yolks per day, sometimes cooking the whites and sometimes throwing them out. Raw egg yolks are an excellent source of choline, as well as cholesterol, lutein and lots of other valuable co-factors. Also, they are safe: don't believe the salmonella mythology. The infection is very rare, I've already eaten a dozen dozen and had no problem, but for the paranoid my advice is to eat some plain yoghurt with them. The lactobaccilli way outnumber and outcompete any salmonellas, and their natural antibiotics prevent the evil bacteria from surviving.

Don't assume that just because you're getting enough choline that it will end the headaches. Because choline has to be turned into acetylcholine, and that requires all kinds of enzymes, the most important of which is rate-limited by vitamin B5, also known as pantothenic acid. My friend ate tons of lechithin but that didn't end his headaches. He's a natural-foods nutso and doesn't take any b-complex. So I laid out the reality to him, and now he's trying it with 100mg per day of b-complex. That's probably just barely enough to stop his issue.

I've been taking 100-1200mg b-complex per day for decades, so never had the issue. Most recently I'd dropped my dose to only 100mg (which also provides 210mg choline as the bitartrate), so decided to double to 200mg. It seems this is an excellent dose. High doses of 600mg or more cause insomnia for me, and 1200mg caused numbness of the fingertips (peripheral neuralgia).

In conclusion, Piracetam is my miracle, the most important stuff I've ever taken in my life, and I'm going to stockpile hundreds of kilos of it just in case it is banned or becomes unavailable in the future. The improvements in my mental state have been progressive, not episodic.

After sleeping for eight hours after my last night dose, its already long cleared from my brain but my vision is still super sharp. Some of the advancement of each day remains to add to the next! This stuff is like having a bank account with positive balance, which earns interest.

Using depleting stimulants such as caffeine, etc. only withdraws from the brain's bio-account, causing painful crashes and withdrawals, and ultimately progressive loss of energy and premature aging. This material is a total replacement for those toxic drugs, one which protects and lubricates the brain. I am always at my best now, and have resumed projects left behind due to tiredness.

Finally, on the interactions with drugs. Before, I would smoke a whole bowl of cannabis and still only get medium-high. Now I smoke 1/3 to 1/2 of a bowl and I'm too high! Like, the feeling that it would be just unwise to take one more toke, because then I'd be just way over the line...

Now, cannabis is not particularly stimulating, but this stuff made it like LSD, brought back the psychedelic effect from years past. I cannot imagine what a stimulating psychedelic such as mushrooms, MDMA, LSD, etc. would be like. Let's just say it will be at least a 2:1 potency increase, judging by other user accounts. I don't have these materials to test, but if I do in the future a full and highly descriptive report will be issued on the double.

Plus, I am now so much more wordy! It is fun to talk in depth with others. I can put together much better sentences. I've had lots of new creative thoughts, from stabilizing unstable tokamak fusion plasmas to nanomachine x86 instruction execution with separate quantum sub-units for calculation and yet other quantum nanosensors for wholesale import of entroy from the nonquantized universe outside the device.

There is much much more to life, and my mind is waking up to it one day at a time. This is a gateway. Next stop on the track is Aniracetam. Even if none of the more potent racetams work, this stuff will still be enough.

I just can't understand why and hardly believe that such a simple molecule could make so much difference. Sometimes I imagine how it vibrates in water solution, how it bounces around and touches various structures inside the cells. But nothing short of a physics simulation on a supercomputer is going to really show why it works. Those are expensive and far between, devoted right now to more profitable enterprises.

Finally, real health does not have the kind of short-term high-revenue profitability that is the lifeblood of today's short-circuit economy. Thus it is very much up to the individual to research and keep digging, to go beyond what is offered on shelves and advertised on TV/radio/print.

And I didn't need the Alpha-GPC scam to get my choline up. Eggs are not only cheaper, but my money feeds real farmers in my province, not some 24x overpriced enterprise that thinks it can milk consumers for something that's not more than two or three times as potent as common food sources, such as egg yolk and lecithin. That kind of product is not within my economy, which is highly efficient in value per dollar and runs on a sustainable basis.

I'd encourage everyone to take this stuff, as much and as often as possible. Like vitamin C, there are no downsides to megadoses except for the wallet (a bit). Except no diarrhea.

My current dose is four teaspoons per day, spaced evenly, with the first at wakeup and last at bedtime. Each teaspoon probably weighs 4-5 grams, so total 16-20 grams per day. I'll measure on a friend's scale and update this post with the real quantity shortly.

The God of chemistry handed me my mind back, made new and fresh once again. As the neurolube drips from its surface, he winks at me, saying quietly as he walks into the sunet, 'enjoy...'.


Hey my friend,

Nice to read your post. I got a question, how much B5 is there in your 100mg B-Complex?

Thanks

#14 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 11:21 PM

I would have gotten to it, but the Thread Subscription for this forum is gimped up and 'forgets' to notify me of certain subscriptions. I am subscribed to that thread, but I've got so many other subscriptions that it probably gets overwhelmed or hits a limit imposed somewhere in the software.

My B5 intake is 100mg per day, as part of the time-release B100 pill I take. The pill also contains 100mg each of B1, B2, B3, B4, B6, 100mcg of B12, 300mcg biotin, 400mcg folic acid, 210mg choline bitartrate, 100mg inositol, and 100mg PABA.

#15 cougar

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 01:45 AM

Thanks for your reply I'm taking B100 timed release from jamieson as well. It has 100mg of B5 too I'm not sure if 100mg B5 is not enough, I'm going to try the B Complex from Life Extension which gives 1000mg of B5. My piracetam dosage is 8g now, it will be my 5th week tomorrow. I'm feeling tired and sleepy, I've added DMAE to my stack, hopefully it will help How many exercise do you have each day, do you think that would help?

Q

I would have gotten to it, but the Thread Subscription for this forum is gimped up and 'forgets' to notify me of certain subscriptions. I am subscribed to that thread, but I've got so many other subscriptions that it probably gets overwhelmed or hits a limit imposed somewhere in the software.

My B5 intake is 100mg per day, as part of the time-release B100 pill I take. The pill also contains 100mg each of B1, B2, B3, B4, B6, 100mcg of B12, 300mcg biotin, 400mcg folic acid, 210mg choline bitartrate, 100mg inositol, and 100mg PABA.



#16 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 02:14 AM

Posted Image

have no pity on them - their purpose is to be cracked!

As for sleepiness egg yolks worked for me. I ate a lot of them too! Like 15-20 dozen egg yolks over a 1.5-month period. I used to eat them four at a time, yolks swallowed raw - the whites washed down the drain, being mostly water and allergenic, iodine-binding, thyroid-suppressing proteins...

Egg yolks are really great for racetam headaches, plus they contain Lutein which keeps the retina healthy (ARMD), and they're full of the super-important CHOLESTEROL, which is the precursor to the most important hormones, which are themselves required for racetams to work properly.

Not to mention that the brain is 70% Cholesterol by dry weight - 20-30% before dehydration. Cholesterol is the key substructural nutrient that enables all those expensive nootropics to work :p

Raw yolks provide safe, unoxidized cholesterol, which is why I never heated them. Cooking oxidizes cholesterol into a toxic form that causes plaques and numerous other biochemical stresses.

Edited by Isochroma, 10 August 2009 - 03:09 AM.


#17 cougar

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 04:45 AM

Posted Image

have no pity on them - their purpose is to be cracked!

As for sleepiness egg yolks worked for me. I ate a lot of them too! Like 15-20 dozen egg yolks over a 1.5-month period. I used to eat them four at a time, yolks swallowed raw - the whites washed down the drain, being mostly water and allergenic, iodine-binding, thyroid-suppressing proteins...

Egg yolks are really great for racetam headaches, plus they contain Lutein which keeps the retina healthy (ARMD), and they're full of the super-important CHOLESTEROL, which is the precursor to the most important hormones, which are themselves required for racetams to work properly.

Not to mention that the brain is 70% Cholesterol by dry weight - 20-30% before dehydration. Cholesterol is the key substructural nutrient that enables all those expensive nootropics to work :p

Raw yolks provide safe, unoxidized cholesterol, which is why I never heated them. Cooking oxidizes cholesterol into a toxic form that causes plaques and numerous other biochemical stresses.

Isochoma,
Thanks for your valuable information. I eat five extra large organic eggs everyday. Is it really safe to eat raw egg? Is egg white really not good at all? Which brand of egg do you use?

#18 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 04:51 AM

I never got sick and ate probably 400+ raw yolks during those couple months. They were just plain factory-farmed eggs. Organic will likely have more nutrients, but I'm a cheapo.

It is theoretically possible to get salmonella, parasites, fungus or bacterial infections but these things are rare.

If buying organic/dirt-raised, I'd wash the shells off before cracking - that's where any contamination is likely to be.

Also, I've got Foodsafe Level 1 certification so therefore I might even be an expert at such things :p

#19 shifter

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 03:56 AM

Is there anything that can be done with the egg whites to make them a more beneficial to eat? Seems like such a waste. If you cook them and denature the proteins, will that help or make things worse.

#20 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 04:06 AM

Yes, cooking will denature the proteins, decreasing allergenicity and destroying the avidin. That won't help for those who are allergic to eggs (usually), but then again some are allergic to soy.

Which is why it's always good if there's two options - egg & soy - for those who require them as a source of choline to avoid racetam side-effects, or feel they are of use potentiating the racetams.

This applies to refined products such as Alpha-GPC and other choline powders. They are usually derived from soy choline, which is a cheap and concentrated source. Alpha-GPC is confirmed to be made from soy. Those with soy allergies could find themselves reacting to these products.

A similar though unrelated example is vitamin C. Vitamin C powder is made industrially by starting with sugar, and corn sugar is usually the cheapest so it's used. Some who are allergic to corn found themselves reacting to this vitamin C and after investigation figured out why. So that is the story.

It is possible to make choline or almost anything else using total synthesis. That's where you start with just basic raw chemicals and make the entire molecule step-by-step. It's usually very expensive so rarely used for commodity items. It's cheaper (ie. more profitable) to start with the molecule almost already made - usually by a plant - and just do a few steps to finish it.

Edited by Isochroma, 11 August 2009 - 04:17 AM.


#21 cougar

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 03:14 AM

I never got sick and ate probably 400+ raw yolks during those couple months. They were just plain factory-farmed eggs. Organic will likely have more nutrients, but I'm a cheapo.

It is theoretically possible to get salmonella, parasites, fungus or bacterial infections but these things are rare.

If buying organic/dirt-raised, I'd wash the shells off before cracking - that's where any contamination is likely to be.

Also, I've got Foodsafe Level 1 certification so therefore I might even be an expert at such things :p


Hi Isochroma,

I've started to consume raw egg yolk since last night. I'm consuming 4 yolks a day. It has been said that it would be better to start from half an egg and gradually adding up. But I can't wait to see the effect. It seems that I'm getting better today. Hopefully raw egg yolk is the solution for my tiredness and sleepiness. Thanks again.

#22 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 04:29 AM

If you're physically tired there may be other deficiencies involved, since I've never heard of piracetam effecting the general energy metabolism of an entire body - only the brain. There could be some interaction I'm missing, of course.

Give the yolks a try. There's also Alpha-GPC which many swear by, and other generics like Choline Citrate, Maleate, etc.

If I had to buy a Choline supplement because I couldn't tolerate eggs (which was at the time a close call since their yolks gave me gas - but I put up with it), then I'd likely use the cheaper generic choline salts, since their effect per dollar is likely to be much higher than AGPC.

Edited by Isochroma, 12 August 2009 - 04:30 AM.


#23 shifter

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 05:31 AM

I'm curious, approx how many mg of choline is in 1 egg yolk and how many egg yolks should you consume say, per 1g of piracetam?

So sort of like how many mg choline per mg piracetam should be consumed.





If you're physically tired there may be other deficiencies involved, since I've never heard of piracetam effecting the general energy metabolism of an entire body - only the brain. There could be some interaction I'm missing, of course.

Give the yolks a try. There's also Alpha-GPC which many swear by, and other generics like Choline Citrate, Maleate, etc.

If I had to buy a Choline supplement because I couldn't tolerate eggs (which was at the time a close call since their yolks gave me gas - but I put up with it), then I'd likely use the cheaper generic choline salts, since their effect per dollar is likely to be much higher than AGPC.



#24 Guest_Isochroma_*

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 06:02 AM

From Wikipedia, quoting the USDA National Nutrient Database: about 680mg Choline per 100g of raw yolk. Here's the search but you have to put 'yolk' in as the keyword.

A single egg yolk provides about 126mg choline (source).

Four yolks a day was enough to abolish my Piracetam headache. Effect started 40 min. after eating on an empty stomach, which is also the time it takes for most other stuff to absorb from my GI tract.

Also, since the male RDI for choline is about 550 mg/day, that means 4 yolks per day are just enough to satisfy the requirement, even if the diet is otherwise entirely devoid of the nutrient. Of course, this is not an endorsement of the likely too-low RDI set by the Government.

PS. I always bought extra-large whites (browns don't have any more choline), and those are likely to have more choline than the standard medium-size which the USDA estimate is based upon.

Edited by Isochroma, 12 August 2009 - 06:08 AM.


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#25 Healthy56

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 01:26 AM

Can anyone tell me why Piracetam makes me go to sleep? Instead of perking me up, I am out of it within an hour after taking a teaspoon. What's up????




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