16 replies to this topic

[CasualObserver]

Is it safe to take large vitamin k2 supps? Would its enhancement of blood clotting increase heart attack risk? Specifically i'm thinking of taking this and also maybe recommending it to my mum for its benefits to bone and possibly heart health.

What do you think?

[rfarris]

Relentless Improvement (our Sponsor) sells a 15mg version of menatetrenone, and suggests that it might be ok to take it three times/day. The statement "Our K2 is a full 15 'mg' (MILLI-gram) dose as used studies that produced positive results" is found on the RI website, as is "Clinical trials have documented that menatetrenone does not induce hemostatic activation. However, it will interfere with the activity warfarin (Coumadin®) and possibly other anticoagulant (“blood thinning”) medications. Patients prescribed anticoagulants must not take this supplement."

I've found that Pete (the owner of RI) is knowledgeable about the products he carries (particularly the ones he brands with his company name) and I'm sure if you emailed him he'd steer you right.

[psychenaut]

Might want to peruse PUBMED and search "menatetrenone" and read the Menatetrenone studies. There's a lot of research on K2 Menatetrenone. Other than the cautions we disclose on our site, it is effective for "bone support" and very well tolerated. I see no warning of increased heart attack risk in any of the studies. HOWEVER- any individual under a doctors care would be well advised to seek their counsel before using any supplements.

RI vitamin k2 menatetrenone found here.

Most all the studies used a 15-45 mg dose. 5 mg is simply not a meaningful dose, or cost efficient, do your price per mg math. Note also the Mk-4 Menatetrenone is the only Vitamin K form to provide benefits. Other suppliers will sell a cheaper version of k2 to try to monetize consumers not being fully informed.

"A randomized clinical intervention study among 325 postmenopausal women receiving either placebo or 45 mg/day of vitamin K(2) (MK-4, menatetrenone) during three years."

"Treatment with 45 mg vitamin K2...for 48 weeks resulted in a significant increase in lumbar BMD"

"Previous studies demonstrated the efficacy of vitamin K2 (45 mg/day) to prevent bone loss and reduce the rate of vertebral fractures..."

K2 is an awesome product, well tolerated, for folks needing bone health support, with much credible evidence for its efficacy.

Pete

[Brainbox]

90 Mcg (MK-7, Menaquinone-7, from 60mg natto extract) reduces the nose bleed issues I have due to fish-oil very very effective.
What would be the long-term risk of taking magnitudes more than the effective dose that significantly increases blood clotting?

Edited by brainbox, 29 February 2008 - 11:31 AM.

[balance]

If you're worried, then don't take it. I just bought it from Relentless Improvement and it suits me well. I'm not taking the full 45mg, sticking to 15mg right now. The higher doses don't function for clotting issues, they function for bone support.

[mudderrunner]

45mg seems an exorbatant amount when compared to the adequate intake set by the IOM which is 120mcg for men and 90mcg for women.

[Brainbox]

The higher doses don't function for clotting issues.

Any scientific evidence to support that?

[ortcloud]

Is it safe to take large vitamin k2 supps? Would its enhancement of blood clotting increase heart attack risk? Specifically i'm thinking of taking this and also maybe recommending it to my mum for its benefits to bone and possibly heart health.

What do you think?

menaquinone-7 is much more potent than menatetrenone-4, I am not sure which you were looking at
but you could probably tolerate larger doses of menatetrenone-4, but why would you want to ? You
are looking for large efficacy rather than large doses. So I would go with the menaquinone-7. It
also seems to have more activity in the soft tissues and arteries outside the liver than other
forms which seem to stay primarily in the liver.

[rfarris]

...I would go with the menaquinone-7. It also seems to have more activity in the soft tissues and arteries outside the liver than other
forms which seem to stay primarily in the liver.

How about bone? I think the OP is interested in bone issues...

[CasualObserver]

thanks for the replies. ortcloud that is interesting, do you have anything to back it up though? I read this a while ago which i think says that menatetrenione is by far the best form of k2 for bone health. Is it credible? http://www.aor.ca/in...e_winter_03.pdf

[CasualObserver]

I found this article http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum which says "The excessive dose of vitamin K2, even at the high dose of 100 mg/kg/day for 10 weeks, did not accelerate the progression of atherosclerosis and did not promote the coagulative tendency in the rabbits."

[yoyo]

K2 is necessary for clotting, but it doesn't cause it. its like saying taking too much calcium will make your skeleton grow

[CasualObserver]

K2 is necessary for clotting, but it doesn't cause it. its like saying taking too much calcium will make your skeleton grow

Good point, but if an elderly person has unknown low vitamin k levels (is this likely?) would it increase the risk of heart attack a significant amount due to higher clotting ability. Vitamin k doesn't cause the blood to clot but the more you have up to a certain extent the higher the clotting ability due to more activated clotting factors or something.

What i'm trying to say is, is it ok to recommend that an elderly person say 50-70 take this if they haven't had any heart problems but may have slightly elevated cholesterol or something?

[balance]

If the person is not taking blood thinning Coumadin/warfarin medicine, give them the vitamin K2. Elderly people almost always have suboptimal vitamin k2 levels. Give DHEA 50mg for the cholesterol issues. Some other things that might help: Sytrinol, SAMe, Methylcobalamin B12, high dose folic acid and B6.

[roxanne]

I've been giving my husband a low dose of K2 to ward off kidney stones. He suffers from the calcium type. I was hoping the K2 would tie the calcium in his blood to bone and not filter it through the kidney to form more stones. Is this a sound strategy? My husband's doctor was dismissive.

[CasualObserver]

ok thanks piet3r.

[yoyo]

I've been giving my husband a low dose of K2 to ward off kidney stones. He suffers from the calcium type. I was hoping the K2 would tie the calcium in his blood to bone and not filter it through the kidney to form more stones. Is this a sound strategy? My husband's doctor was dismissive.

i haven't seen anything that would support this