89 replies to this topic

[HighDesertWizard]

An update for wccaguy

It seems like pricing for raw materials on this is all over the map... I believe there are probably quality issues at this time, and decent company sources are unknown. It will take time to investigate why this is...

A

Hi again Anthony,

I try to describe the actors and process behind the 5-Loxin formulation here.

There are A LOT of folks with their hand out looking for coin in providing high quality Boswellia (with AKBA). It seems to me that the wholesale pricing and quality variances you've encountered are indicative both of the difficulties and business opportunity represented here.

Seems to me that, if you look closely, the PlThomas folks appear to be pretty serious people. They wouldn't be doing 5-Loxin if they weren't convinced of the health benefit and future market need for quality.

So, IMO, there is a market niche here for someone who can figure out how to offer an alternative, guaranteed high quality Boswellia (AKBA) formulation in larger doses than any other merchant provides. The difficulty in figuring out how to do this narrows the field of formulation providers (i.e., competitors) who can do it.

Now where might we find a formulation provider who has proven experience with quality and pricing?

8-)

Almost forgot... The only other formulation I've seen that MIGHT be competitive to 5-Loxin is the TrueBotanica formulation. But there isn't any demonstrated quality documentation or certification with that one so I considered it only for a moment. And they use "spiritual" language that makes me feel a little queasy. But there is good refererence material at the TrueBotanica site so it's worth spending some time on. Perhaps you could talk them into revealing their source?

Edited by wccaguy, 04 August 2008 - 12:27 PM.

[HighDesertWizard]

A partial list of studies from a google of "cancer apoptosis boswellia".

Boswellic acid acetate induces apoptosis through caspase-mediated pathways in myeloid leukemia cells

Boswellic acids trigger apoptosis via a pathway dependent on caspase-8 activation but independent on Fas/Fas ligand interaction in colon cancer HT-29 cells

Boswellic acids and malignant glioma: induction of apoptosis but no modulation of drug sensitivity

Boswellic acid acetate induces differentiation and apoptosis in highly metastatic melanoma and fibrosarcoma cells

Keto- and acetyl-keto-boswellic acids inhibit proliferation and induce apoptosis in Hep G2 cells via a caspase-8 dependent pathway

Acetyl-keto-beta-boswellic acid induces apoptosis through a death receptor 5-mediated pathway in prostate cancer cells.

Acetyl-11-Keto-beta-Boswellic Acid Potentiates Apoptosis, Inhibits Invasion, and Abolishes Osteoclastogenesis by Suppressing NF-{kappa}B and NF-{kappa}B-Regulated Gene Expression

Inhibition of Ikappa B kinase activity by actyl-boswellic acids promotes apoptosis in androgen-independent PC-3 prostate cancer cells in vitro and in vivo

A triterpenediol from Boswellia serrata induces apoptosis through both the intrinsic and extrinsic apoptotic pathways in human leukemia HL-60 cells

[HighDesertWizard]

I was doing a bit of browsing related to bowellia and came across a doctoral dissertation written at a German university entitled Pharmacological actions and targets of boswellic acids in human leukocytes and platelets. It's a pdf so it can be saved to disk.

[HighDesertWizard]

Anthony,

It would be great to be able to purchase high quality larger size capsules and powder from a vendor like you that essentially guaranteed a high quality AKBA extract.

In the short term, however, might it be possible to provide the PlThomas 5-Loxin Boswellia formulation as a powder in larger size quantities than are currently available?

[Anthony_Loera]

I am collecting samples from different folks at this time for testing.
I am waiting on one that has 50% AKBA to test and confirm it.

Once I confirm what is good from what is not from the lab results (2-3 weeks), we will look at pricing, dosage, formulation with a few other things...

cheers
A

[HighDesertWizard]

I am collecting samples from different folks at this time for testing.
I am waiting on one that has 50% AKBA to test and confirm it.

Once I confirm what is good from what is not from the lab results (2-3 weeks), we will look at pricing, dosage, formulation with a few other things...

cheers
A

WWHHOOAA !!

[HighDesertWizard]

I am collecting samples from different folks at this time for testing.
I am waiting on one that has 50% AKBA to test and confirm it.

Once I confirm what is good from what is not from the lab results (2-3 weeks), we will look at pricing, dosage, formulation with a few other things...

cheers
A

Hi Anthony,

Do you anticipate that the same sort of quality control procedures and documentation will be in place for a Boswellia product you might sell as you have in place for Resveratrol?

Thanks.

[Anthony_Loera]

I am collecting samples from different folks at this time for testing.
I am waiting on one that has 50% AKBA to test and confirm it.

Once I confirm what is good from what is not from the lab results (2-3 weeks), we will look at pricing, dosage, formulation with a few other things...

cheers
A

Hi Anthony,

Do you anticipate that the same sort of quality control procedures and documentation will be in place for a Boswellia product you might sell as you have in place for Resveratrol?

Thanks.

Yes, If it's not tested in a US lab, it simply won't be released.

Cheers
A

[SusanK]

I've used a product with it and really liked it.

Just be sure that it is lead free.
Even if it is organic, since it is a sap, the harvesters often use talc on their hands, which can contain lead and contaminate the raw boswelllia.
Be sure you have a brand that tests for that.

[Anthony_Loera]

We test microbial, heavy metals, and of course... for purity.

So we are doing great on that end!



A

[Anthony_Loera]

ok wccaguy,

we now have both samples, and we are sending them off to AACL for testing. If the 50% comes back looking great, we will add this to a formulation we have.

thanks
A

[HighDesertWizard]

ok wccaguy,

we now have both samples, and we are sending them off to AACL for testing. If the 50% comes back looking great, we will add this to a formulation we have.

thanks
A

WWHHOOAA !!

I have been diligently continuing with my trial of the effects of 5-Loxin. The more I read about it, the more I'm convinced of its benefit. It would be an honor to be the first to purchase your Boswellia product Anthony!

[malbecman]

Hi wccaguy,

Thanks for taking this post and running with it. You've really dug up a lot of more interesting information than I did from that first newspaper article. Boswellia certainly looks very promising and I look forward to
your results (and Anthony's testing results) with bated breath........

Malbec

ok wccaguy,

we now have both samples, and we are sending them off to AACL for testing. If the 50% comes back looking great, we will add this to a formulation we have.

thanks
A

WWHHOOAA !!

I have been diligently continuing with my trial of the effects of 5-Loxin. The more I read about it, the more I'm convinced of its benefit. It would be an honor to be the first to purchase your Boswellia product Anthony!

[thefirstimmortal]

WWHHOOAA !!

[HighDesertWizard]

For the record, here's what I hope to find in my personal 5-Loxin Boswellia trial (5-Loxin merely being the trademark name of a 30% AKBA product).

As I have posted elsewhere, I have significant Coronary Artery Disease. To my knowledge, Dr. William Davis' TrackYourPlaque.com program is the most profound and beneficial program for CAD prevention and plaque regression in the world. (By the way Dr. Davis will be doing an ImmInst Sunday chat in a few weeks.)

I have had high Lipoprotein(a), a type of extremely bad LDL that is genetically determined. Of all the various "lipoprotein variables" positively correlated with CAD, it is the most difficult to get to a healthy value if you have a high unhealthy value. 2 of my 3 children have very high values for their ages. I have a keen personal interest in the latest and greatest ideas for treating high Lp(a).

I have reliable Lp(a) data on myself going back 10 years so I have a serious data series baseline to compare effects with. The TrackYourPlaque program has driven my Lp(a) number down about 30% already to the lowest measured value I've had in the last 10 years. The date on that test was middle of July.

My hope in the 5-Loxin trial is that my Lp(a) will be driven lower. I have written up the details on two theories about why this might be possible through the use of Boswellia over at Dr. Davis' TrackYourPlaque forum site.

1 Reduction in MMP-2 and MMP-9.

2 Activation or suppression of the various PPARs (PPARs are key I think though I can't really explain what they are and why they're important in detail yet).

The fact that my multi-year carpal tunnel syndrome sleep experiences have disappeared is a promising first glimpse of what could occur. MMP-2 is significantly implicated in carpal tunnel syndrome.

More info as I have it.

Edited by wccaguy, 12 August 2008 - 09:25 PM.

[smithx]

I'm going to stick with the "Pure Encapsulations" 5-LOXIN product.

This one is much stronger and also cheaper:
http://www.gonsi.com...ku-835003007363

Also available here:
http://www.vitacost....Serrata-Extract

[HighDesertWizard]

I'm going to stick with the "Pure Encapsulations" 5-LOXIN product.

This one is much stronger and also cheaper:
http://www.gonsi.com...ku-835003007363

Also available here:
http://www.vitacost....Serrata-Extract

smithx,

Thanks for posting about the NSI 5-Loxin product. I'm aware I made a calculation error and that NSI provides a cheaper 5-Loxin product than the one that LEF and Pure Encapsulations provide.

I've hesitated to recommend it because I vaguely recall reading that NSI products were sometimes of low quality. I've also seen on the 'net that VitaCost has a non-trivial number of people complaining about it's credit card usage practices. I'd been thinking that I should ask about what people in the know think about NSI/Vitacost and their product and business practice quality. Hadn't got around to it.

So, what IS the story on NSI/Vitacost and how would that story relate to a 5-Loxin purchase from them?

Thanks.

[krillin]

Take with fat.

Planta Med. 2004 Dec;70(12):1155-60.
Effect of food intake on the bioavailability of boswellic acids from a herbal preparation in healthy volunteers.
Sterk V, Büchele B, Simmet T.
Department of Pharmacology of Natural Products & Clinical Pharmacology, University of Ulm, Ulm, Germany.

In this study we investigated the effects of concomitant food intake on the bioavailability of distinct boswellic acids (BAs) from the test preparation BSE-018, a dry extract from Boswellia serrata gum resin. In a randomised, open, single-dose, two-way crossover study, healthy male subjects received three capsules of BSE-018 equivalent to 786 mg dry extract of Boswellia serrata gum resin either in the fasted state or together with a standardised high-fat meal. BA plasma concentrations were analysed for up to 60 h after oral dosing by reversed phase HPLC. As compared to the fasted state (treatment A), the administration of BSE-018 concomitantly with a high-fat meal (treatment B) led to several-fold increased areas under the plasma concentration-time curves as well as peak concentrations of beta-boswellic acid (betaBA), 11-keto-beta-boswellic acid (KbetaBA) and acetyl-11-keto-beta-boswellic acid (AKbetaBA). Plasma levels of both acetyl-alpha-boswellic acid (AalphaBA) and alphaBA became only detectable when administered with treatment B, i.e., the high-fat meal. Accordingly, pharmacokinetic data could be calculated for betaBA, KbetaBA and AKbetaBA (treatment A) and for betaBA, KbetaBA, AKbetaBA, alphaBA, and AalphaBA (treatment B). For the first time these data reveal detailed kinetics of BAs after oral dosing of an extract and demonstrate a profound effect of food intake on the pharmacokinetic profile of the BAs. This finding should be very important whenever BAs would be considered for therapeutic use.

PMID: 15643550

[HighDesertWizard]

I have written a lot more about Boswellia at Dr. Davis' TrackYourPlaque.com forum (it's subscription only or I'd provide a link).

I'm not clear which of those posts would be additive here and don't have time to figure it out. I provided a username and password to a couple of ImmInst.org members so they could do some reading there. If one of those folks wants to tell me which posts there would be interesting to re-post here, I'd be happy to do that....

Where I am now vis-a-vis Boswellia....

I am more enthusiastic about it than I appear to be upthread.

I think it's a terrific substance to assist with "brain fog". Really! I've experienced the positive effects of Modafinil and some other prescription anti-depressants. The high dose of Boswellia I'm taking doesn't have the same effect as Modafinil, but it's as good as anything I've ever tried. And it's healthy.

Again, there are a lot more details at the TrackYourPlaque.com forum. If someone has access and can point out which posts (if any) would be useful here, I'd be happy to re-post here. And I can do that because it's content I generated.

[HighDesertWizard]

Here's validation of my view that, at present, only the 5-Loxin Boswellia formulation should be used.


Lead, Mercury, and Arsenic in US- and Indian-Manufactured Ayurvedic Medicines Sold via the Internet

JAMA. 2008;300(8):915-923.

Context Lead, mercury, and arsenic have been detected in a substantial proportion of Indian-manufactured traditional Ayurvedic medicines. Metals may be present due to the practice of rasa shastra (combining herbs with metals, minerals, and gems). Whether toxic metals are present in both US- and Indian-manufactured Ayurvedic medicines is unknown.

Objectives To determine the prevalence of Ayurvedic medicines available via the Internet containing detectable lead, mercury, or arsenic and to compare the prevalence of toxic metals in US- vs Indian-manufactured medicines and between rasa shastra and non–rasa shastra medicines.

Design A search using 5 Internet search engines and the search terms Ayurveda and Ayurvedic medicine identified 25 Web sites offering traditional Ayurvedic herbs, formulas, or ingredients commonly used in Ayurveda, indicated for oral use, and available for sale. From 673 identified products, 230 Ayurvedic medicines were randomly selected for purchase in August-October 2005. Country of manufacturer/Web site supplier, rasa shastra status, and claims of Good Manufacturing Practices were recorded. Metal concentrations were measured using x-ray fluorescence spectroscopy.

Main Outcome Measures Prevalence of medicines with detectable toxic metals in the entire sample and stratified by country of manufacture and rasa shastra status.

Results One hundred ninety-three of the 230 requested medicines were received and analyzed. The prevalence of metal-containing products was 20.7% (95% confidence interval [CI], 15.2%-27.1%). The prevalence of metals in US-manufactured products was 21.7% (95% CI, 14.6%-30.4%) compared with 19.5% (95% CI, 11.3%-30.1%) in Indian products (P = .86). Rasa shastra compared with non–rasa shastra medicines had a greater prevalence of metals (40.6% vs 17.1%; P = .007) and higher median concentrations of lead (11.5 µg/g vs 7.0 µg/g; P = .03) and mercury (20 800 µg/g vs 34.5 µg/g; P = .04). Among the metal-containing products, 95% were sold by US Web sites and 75% claimed Good Manufacturing Practices. All metal-containing products exceeded 1 or more standards for acceptable daily intake of toxic metals.

Conclusion One-fifth of both US-manufactured and Indian-manufactured Ayurvedic medicines purchased via the Internet contain detectable lead, mercury, or arsenic.

[inawe]

Here's validation of my view that, at present, only the 5-Loxin Boswellia formulation should be used.

How much of 5-Loxin are you taking?
Thanks

[shuffleup]

wcaaguy have you looked into Perilla Oil at all? There are some references to leukotrienes with perilla oil and I know personally it helps with athsma as well so it may share some properties with boswellia? Good thread keep it up.

[Anthony_Loera]

Just to followup...

attached are 2 COA's for rejected Boswellia AKBA material... it appears this stuff is harder to come by than I thought.

Having said that, I will keep looking for a good supplier. I hope your favorite brand of Boswellia is testing every batch, otherwise... as we see in these COA's you may not be getting what you are paying for.

By the way... these suppliers are not chinese companies....
One is from India, and another appears to be American.

Cheers
A

Attached Files

•  Boswelia_35.pdf   14.75KB   89 downloads
•  Boswelia_50.pdf   14.76KB   72 downloads

[HereInTheHole]

Just to followup...

attached are 2 COA's for rejected Boswellia AKBA material... it appears this stuff is harder to come by than I thought.

Having said that, I will keep looking for a good supplier. I hope your favorite brand of Boswellia is testing every batch, otherwise... as we see in these COA's you may not be getting what you are paying for.

By the way... these suppliers are not chinese companies....
One is from India, and another appears to be American.

Cheers
A

That's insane. If you can find the real stuff, Anthony, I'll buy some.

[HighDesertWizard]

wcaaguy have you looked into Perilla Oil at all? There are some references to leukotrienes with perilla oil and I know personally it helps with athsma as well so it may share some properties with boswellia? Good thread keep it up.

I will look into Perilla oil.

I have made probably 2 to 3 times as many posts at the TYP forum as I have here about Boswellia and the 5-LO pathway. I'm convinced that the 5-LO pathway is critical and not much discussed. I've been hesitant to post much of that material here for fear of seeming to be obsessed.... Of course, I have been obsessed with this topic... LOL

The literature on the 5-LO pathway and elements of it is huge with incredible implications for health...

If folks here really want to see some of the material that has really gotten me psyched then I'm happy to post.

Think about this.... Boswellia has eliminated my early stage carpal tunnel syndrome symptoms (early CTS as defined in the wikipedia entry on CTS).

Oh... and by the way... Boswellia is a Nootropic.... Really! ... with a scientific literature just beginning to appear that makes it clearer why it could be one.

-------------

I'm taking 2g per day of Boswellia. I am shifting to a cheaper supplier of 5-Loxin. That dose eliminated my early stage carpal tunnel syndrome symptoms.

I have begun to think about some additional mini "personal trials" that might shed some light on other cool anti-inflammatory properties of Boswellia. There is no information out there about dosing for these kinds of things so I feel like I'm flying blind.

-------------

Anthony... Would you consider being a supplier of the 5-Loxin formulation provided by PlThomas? You could offer it in larger volume as a powder?

Thanks for the info on the testing you've done.... disappointing, but better to be disappointed than to get the wrong thing.

[HighDesertWizard]

Here's an example post I made at the TYP forum about Boswellia on August 12 that I didn't post here.... I think this post is pretty interesting if you pay attention to the details...

**************************

No human study suggesting the potential of 5-Loxin Boswellia to treat human atherosclerotic disease outcomes?

Consider...

***********************************************************************
Proinflammatory Genetic Profiles in Subjects With History of Ischemic Stroke

Background and Purpose— Proinflammatory genetic profiles, resulting from the combination of single nucleotide polymorphisms in genes encoding inflammatory molecules, may contribute to the development and progression of cardiovascular diseases. We evaluated the association between history of ischemic stroke and genetic profiles determined by the synergistic effects of polymorphisms in genes encoding prototypical inflammatory proteins.

Methods— The study included 237 individuals with history of ischemic stroke and 223 age-matched and gender-matched controls. The polymorphisms of the C-reactive protein (CRP), interleukin-6 (IL-6), macrophage migration inhibitory factor (MIF), monocyte chemoattractant protein-1 (MCP-1), intercellular adhesion molecule-1 (ICAM-1), E-selectin (E-sel), and matrix metalloproteinase-3 (MMP-3) genes were studied.

Results— IL-6 GG, IL-6 GC, MCP-1 GG, ICAM-1 EE, E-sel AA, and MMP-3 5A5A genotypes were significantly and independently associated with stroke history. The odds of stroke increased with the number of high-risk genotypes: carrying 1 proinflammatory gene variant conferred a risk of 3.3 (1.6 to 6.9), whereas individuals concomitantly carrying 2 and 3 proinflammatory gene variants had adjusted odds ratios of 21.0 (7.6 to 57.5) and 50.3 (10.2 to 248.1), respectively.

Conclusions— Proinflammatory genetic profiles are significantly more common in subjects with stroke history. Synergistic effects between proinflammatory genotypes might be potential markers for cerebrovascular diseases.

***************************************************

***************************************************
A double blind, randomized, placebo controlled study of the efficacy and safety of 5-Loxin® for treatment of osteoarthritis of the knee

Introduction

5-Loxin® is a novel Boswellia serrata extract enriched with 30% 3-O-acetyl-11-keto-beta-boswellic acid (AKBA), which exhibits potential anti-inflammatory properties by inhibiting the 5-lipoxygenase enzyme. A 90-day, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study was conducted to evaluate the efficacy and safety of 5-Loxin® in the treatment of osteoarthritis (OA) of the knee.
Methods

Seventy-five OA patients were included in the study. The patients received either 100 mg (n = 25) or 250 mg (n = 25) of 5-Loxin® daily or a placebo (n = 25) for 90 days. Each patient was evaluated for pain and physical functions by using the standard tools (visual analog scale, Lequesne's Functional Index, and Western Ontario and McMaster Universities Osteoarthritis Index) at the baseline (day 0), and at days 7, 30, 60 and 90. Additionally, the cartilage degrading enzyme matrix metalloproteinase-3 was also evaluated in synovial fluid from OA patients. Measurement of a battery of biochemical parameters in serum and haematological parameters, and urine analysis were performed to evaluate the safety of 5-Loxin® in OA patients.
Results

Seventy patients completed the study. At the end of the study, both doses of 5-Loxin® conferred clinically and statistically significant improvements in pain scores and physical function scores in OA patients. Interestingly, significant improvements in pain score and functional ability were recorded in the treatment group supplemented with 250 mg 5-Loxin® as early as 7 days after the start of treatment. Corroborating the improvements in pain scores in treatment groups, we also noted significant reduction in synovial fluid matrix metalloproteinase-3. In comparison with placebo, the safety parameters were almost unchanged in the treatment groups.
Conclusion

5-Loxin® reduces pain and improves physical functioning significantly in OA patients; and it is safe for human consumption. 5-Loxin® may exert its beneficial effects by controlling inflammatory responses through reducing proinflammatory modulators, and it may improve joint health by reducing the enzymatic degradation of cartilage in OA patients.
******************************


and from the text of this arthritis study...

*******************************
In OA patients, MMPs such as MMP-3 are over-expressed and abundant in fluids of the synovial cavity, and cause degeneration of cartilage tissue. 5-Loxin® was able to reduce the elevated MMP-3 level in synovial fluid. This finding indicates that reduction in synovial fluid MMP-3 level by 5-Loxin® is consistent with improvements in abnormal joint physiology in OA. Therefore, these data together demonstrate that 5-Loxin® potentially has effects in terms of reducing the pain and improving physical ability and joint health; it is most likely that these improvements occur through downregulation of cartilage degrading enzymes such as MMP-3.

*******************************

Might Boswellia have an impact on probability of stroke and heart attack? There are a couple of assumptions one has to make here of course, including this one.

* That MMP-3 reduction would take place with 5-Loxin for heart disease in a way similar to the reduction shown to take place in the arthritis study above.


I'm trying to work through how to structure a small personal trial to test some of these concepts.

Remember, high dose 5-Loxin has eliminated my early stage CTS symptoms. CTS is associated with MMP-2 in sinuvial fluid in the wrists. MMP-2 is also associated with an increased risk of coronary artery disease and risk of heart attack along with MMP-3 and MMP-9.

So what is going on here? Truth is, I have no idea. But it's too interesting a rabbit hole for me to pull myself out of exploring.

Edited by wccaguy, 28 August 2008 - 04:41 AM.

[HighDesertWizard]

I made this post at the TYP forum back on August 9... As you might imagine, this post was a huge awakening for me....

*************************

Was doing some google browsing to get links for the "syllogism phrases" I posted in the Crestor thread to answer jegesq's question to me... Will post those in a bit but, for now, I've found some interesting information related to my own health history that is instructive, at least for me.

When I was 7 years old, I came down with Rheumatic Fever and a Heart Murmur. I didn't attend school for 3 or 4 months because of the disease. Now I have always been told that the disease passed and that there are no after effects... Now that may be but it turns out that Rheumatic Fever has some sort of relationship to arthritis.

*******************************
The Role of Polyarthritis in Rheumatic Fever

Symptoms of polyarthritis include painful, tender, swollen, warm joints and usually occur early in the course of rheumatic fever. The most commonly affected joints associated with polyarthritis related to rheumatic fever are:

* ankles
* knees
* elbows
* wrists

Vertebral joints are not usually affected but the following joints may be affected:

* shoulders
* hips
* small joints of the hands and feet

*******************************

*******************************
From Wikipedia

Polyarthritis is any type of arthritis which involves five or more joints — an inflammation of two, three or four joints is an oligoarthritis.

Polyarthritis may be experienced at any age and is not gender specific.

*******************************

Now I have no idea what this means all by itself. Need to do more reading.

But if Rheumatic Fever was the most significant disease of my childhood, the most significant disease of my adult life (beside the atherosclerosis leading to stents and bypass) was "Parvo Virus B19". Never heard of it? Neither had I.

In 2003, a year following the 3x bypass, I felt terrible for a while. Joint pain and fatigue. Went to the doctor and they hauled me into a hospital bed. It took them a week to figure out what the frickin' thing was that I had. For a day or two, they thought it was leukemia and I got a bone marrow extraction procedure done. Now that's a fun thing to have done. I confess that I'm evil. I stole the awl like device from the hospital that they used to pierce the bone and get, I guess, the bone marrow to test for leukemia. It's one of my prized life souvenours.

But, alas, no leukemia.

Turns out it was Parvo Virus B19. I was the Den Leader for my youngest son's Cub Scout Den and caught the virus from one of the boys in the cub scout den. In kids, it's oftimes called "slapped cheek disease". Of course, my system had to be ready to be infected for me to get sick like I did. There is no blame to be attached to that terrific scout named Bradley.

Well, just today I figured that I'd google "Parvo Virus B19" and a few other words I've been having luck with lately. What I found is that Parvo Virus and Arthritis are closely related and even sometimes confused with each other. There are so many studies about this relationship that I'm not sure which study to paste in here. I've got more to read before I know what to post so I won't. It appears that Parvo Virus B19 is more closely related to Rheumatoid Arthritis than anything else. Google "parvovirus b19 infection arthritis" yourself to see what I mean.

One more thing... You know how you read about heart bypass patients experiencing "fatigue" after the procedure. What the heck is that about? I wonder if it isn't really mild parvo b19. There are a ton of various kinds of studies of parvo b19 following coronary artery bypass. Dont' take my word for it. Google it. Wow.

******************************************************

So, then, I began to wonder.... Could there possibly be a relationship between carpal tunnel syndrome and parvo b19 virus infection. The carpal tunnel symptoms followed the parvo virus experience. How obscure is it? There can't be a relationship, right?

It's really a simple google: "parvo b19 carpal tunnel". There are more than 16,000 returns from that google.

Here's the link to just the first one retuned from the google search.

Persistent parvovirus b19 infection resulting in carpal tunnel syndrome

And here all the while we've been told that carpal tunnel syndrome is all about how you hold your hands at the computer keyboard?

If you've been following this thread with some attention to detail you'll understand that all of this is, as Dr. Davis would say, "very interesting."

The most significant diseases of my life appear all to be related and I never knew it. They all appear to be related to VCAM-1, MMPs, etc. expression and, perhaps, mostly to the 5-lipoxygenase inflammatory pathway.

And with that statement, I've had too overwhelming an experience with all of this and a bit too much red wine to celebrate these new discoveries so I'll stop now.

More later as I learn more...

***********************8

End of post from TYP forum on August 9, 2008

Edited by wccaguy, 28 August 2008 - 04:52 AM.

[malbecman]

So I wanted to share my latest experience with Boswellia. I couldnt wait for you and your eventual product release, Anthony, so for now I ordered the 5-Loxin from Vitacost:

http://www.vitacost....Serrata-Extract

I"ve been getting back into running more, trying to fight the middle age spread (I'm 41). Yesterday I ran 6 miles in my brand new shoes. It went fine but this morning I definitely had some foot and quad muscle soreness and a little knee joint pain. Nothing serious but I felt a little stiff and slow this AM.
I'm guessing its due to my getting used to my new shoes which likely changed my running gait a little. I took 3 capsules of the 5 Loxin, equivalent to 225mg extract (and ~70mg AKBA). Its now a few hours later and the pain and stiffness is completely(!) gone. I'm sure some of it is due to
me waking up and getting going but I honestly feel I could now go do another 6 miles today. It feels better than if I had taken a NSAID like ibuprofen which I've done in the past for this type of stiffness. This stuff is definitely worth checking out, IMHO.....

[HighDesertWizard]

That's sounds great malbecman. I continue to like it. During the first week of October, I plan to get a new set of blood work done to see what Boswellia has done for me.

By the way, someone sent me a private message a while back about a site that offers 5-Loxin Boswellia cheaper than anyone else as a powder. Here's are a couple links.

I bought the powder and compared it to the powder in capsules I had. It's the same stuff. It doesn't taste too bad although it doesn't taste good either. It certainly is more tolerable than arginine powder.

http://www.easycart....images/8275.jpg

http://www.easycart....s_K-O.html#8275

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi malbecman,

sounds great! I am waiting for a 3rd test, and just got a 4th sample...

Hopefully one of these work out, and we can start offering it in one of the supplements.

Cheers
A