18 replies to this topic

[Wulfe]

I've noticed much discussion about the potential benefit in terms of bioavailability when taking Resveratrol with Lecithin. However I've noted that everyone has been essentially creating a cocktail out of the two products.. mixing them together before ingesting.

Now I have a bunch of Lecithin soft gels... would the same benefit apply if I took a few lecithin capsules along with res capsules? Or do they have to be mixed prior to ingesting?

[maxwatt]

I've noticed much discussion about the potential benefit in terms of bioavailability when taking Resveratrol with Lecithin. However I've noted that everyone has been essentially creating a cocktail out of the two products.. mixing them together before ingesting.

Now I have a bunch of Lecithin soft gels... would the same benefit apply if I took a few lecithin capsules along with res capsules? Or do they have to be mixed prior to ingesting?

It probably would not be terribly effective. Even the 99% powders don't disperse very well with lecithin in water, unless dissolved in ethanol first (Everclear, or Vodka or even Jack Daniels if that isn't available.) Even so, it might be a little bit more effective than resveratrol alone, if they are taken together on an empty stomach.

[Wulfe]

Thanks, Maxwatt.. appreciate the response.

[Anthony_Loera]

I have been taking it with a protein isolate powder at night (vanilla!) with the rsv and the beta-lactoglobulin in it does appear to work decently to increase it's solubility.

A

[maxwatt]

Thanks, Maxwatt.. appreciate the response.

Whey proteins do bind to it,it dissolves readily in milk or a whey protein drink, and judging by the continued pain reliev in my arthritic toes, it is bio-available that whey.
It would be nice if Hedgehog could measure blood levels with this form of administration. I'm currently using HPMC rather than lecithin or whey to take my resveratrol.

[TianZi]

Thanks, Maxwatt.. appreciate the response.

Whey proteins do bind to it,it dissolves readily in milk or a whey protein drink, and judging by the continued pain reliev in my arthritic toes, it is bio-available that whey.
It would be nice if Hedgehog could measure blood levels with this form of administration. I'm currently using HPMC rather than lecithin or whey to take my resveratrol.

I take such an enormous battery of supplements already that I'm reluctant to add to it, especially with something as iffy as Lecithin.

First, I'm not persuaded that taking Lecithin as a supplement in and of itself has any definite value. Claims have been made re lecithin's health benefits since the 1920's, but to this day there's been nothing definite shown.

So the only reason I'd take it would be if it significantly enhanced the efects of resveratrol.

What studies have shown lecithin to enhance the bioavailability of resveratrol, and by how much?

And as regards mixing milk and resveratrol, isn't the only evidence suggesting this might be helpful a single study published in French suggesting that whey protein increases resveratrol's bioavailability? Have those results been duplicated? Further, even if whey enhances resveratrol's bioavailability, milk also contains casein, and that might very well decrease bioavailability of resveratrol ... right?

[krillin]

I take such an enormous battery of supplements already that I'm reluctant to add to it, especially with something as iffy as Lecithin.

First, I'm not persuaded that taking Lecithin as a supplement in and of itself has any definite value. Claims have been made re lecithin's health benefits since the 1920's, but to this day there's been nothing definite shown.

So the only reason I'd take it would be if it significantly enhanced the efects of resveratrol.

What studies have shown lecithin to enhance the bioavailability of resveratrol, and by how much?

And as regards mixing milk and resveratrol, isn't the only evidence suggesting this might be helpful a single study published in French suggesting that whey protein increases resveratrol's bioavailability? Have those results been duplicated? Further, even if whey enhances resveratrol's bioavailability, milk also contains casein, and that might very well decrease bioavailability of resveratrol ... right?

You don't need a PubMed study: just mix it up and see if the additive makes resveratrol more soluble/dispersible. Casein shouldn't adversely affect resveratrol because res doesn't have a gallate group.

[TianZi]

Thanks, Maxwatt.. appreciate the response.

Whey proteins do bind to it,it dissolves readily in milk or a whey protein drink, and judging by the continued pain reliev in my arthritic toes, it is bio-available that whey.
It would be nice if Hedgehog could measure blood levels with this form of administration. I'm currently using HPMC rather than lecithin or whey to take my resveratrol.

I take such an enormous battery of supplements already that I'm reluctant to add to it, especially with something as iffy as Lecithin.

First, I'm not persuaded that taking Lecithin as a supplement in and of itself has any definite value. Claims have been made re lecithin's health benefits since the 1920's, but to this day there's been nothing definite shown.

So the only reason I'd take it would be if it significantly enhanced the efects of resveratrol.

What studies have shown lecithin to enhance the bioavailability of resveratrol, and by how much?

And as regards mixing milk and resveratrol, isn't the only evidence suggesting this might be helpful a single study published in French suggesting that whey protein increases resveratrol's bioavailability? Have those results been duplicated? Further, even if whey enhances resveratrol's bioavailability, milk also contains casein, and that might very well decrease bioavailability of resveratrol ... right?

Correcting a typo: "effect"

I'm not convinced that I can simply "eye" whether or not lecithin enhances resveratrol's bioavailability. I'm also not going to prepare a resveratrol cocktail; I take it in capsule form. I'm not persuaded there's a significant advantage to the form of ingestion--either way it's going to be processed in my gut.

But thanks. I may try taking resveratrol with lecithin since I am not soy sensitive, don't believe it would be harmful, and concentrated lecithin caps are cheap. I've been exercising strenuously 6 days a week for a long time, and if I suddenly see a marked increase in my cardio performance after starting a res + lec regimen, I'll take that as some evidence that the lecithin + res is effective.

[niner]

I'm also not going to prepare a resveratrol cocktail; I take it in capsule form. I'm not persuaded there's a significant advantage to the form of ingestion--either way it's going to be processed in my gut.

If there were no advantage to dosing in a suspension, I'm pretty sure Sirtris would put SRT501 in capsules. They don't, and it tastes terrible. If a compound has great bioavailability, then the dosage form doesn't matter so much. When bioavailability is on the edge, (or over it) like resveratrol, then things like dosage form and adjuvants become a lot more significant.

[TianZi]

I'm also not going to prepare a resveratrol cocktail; I take it in capsule form. I'm not persuaded there's a significant advantage to the form of ingestion--either way it's going to be processed in my gut.

If there were no advantage to dosing in a suspension, I'm pretty sure Sirtris would put SRT501 in capsules. They don't, and it tastes terrible. If a compound has great bioavailability, then the dosage form doesn't matter so much. When bioavailability is on the edge, (or over it) like resveratrol, then things like dosage form and adjuvants become a lot more significant.

Thanks for your reply, Niner.

How do we know the form in which Sirtris' SRT501 compound is delivered to experimental subjects? To my knowledge, Sirtris has kept its proprietary formulation a closely-guarded trade secret. What if anything has Sirtris revealed, and where can I find this information?

[maxwatt]

I'm also not going to prepare a resveratrol cocktail; I take it in capsule form. I'm not persuaded there's a significant advantage to the form of ingestion--either way it's going to be processed in my gut.

If there were no advantage to dosing in a suspension, I'm pretty sure Sirtris would put SRT501 in capsules. They don't, and it tastes terrible. If a compound has great bioavailability, then the dosage form doesn't matter so much. When bioavailability is on the edge, (or over it) like resveratrol, then things like dosage form and adjuvants become a lot more significant.

Thanks for your reply, Niner.

How do we know the form in which Sirtris' SRT501 compound is delivered to experimental subjects? To my knowledge, Sirtris has kept its proprietary formulation a closely-guarded trade secret. What if anything has Sirtris revealed, and where can I find this information?

They published formulations in the Methods section of a paper their scientists published in Nature last November, detailing the results with SRT501 and several NCE's.
All the formulations use HPMC, and some used other substances, such as DOS. Earlier papers and a patent mentioned Tween80. The principle is the same, the substances act as dispersants. Lecithin acts similarly. I have some HPMC samples (there are several grades) and found HPMC 05 easiest to use. 20 milligrams well-stirred into a cup of water keeps 2 grams of resveratrol in suspension indefinitely. Only the largest resveratrol particles settle out. With micronized resveratrol I expect there would be no settling.

[sUper GeNius]

I'm also not going to prepare a resveratrol cocktail; I take it in capsule form. I'm not persuaded there's a significant advantage to the form of ingestion--either way it's going to be processed in my gut.

If there were no advantage to dosing in a suspension, I'm pretty sure Sirtris would put SRT501 in capsules. They don't, and it tastes terrible. If a compound has great bioavailability, then the dosage form doesn't matter so much. When bioavailability is on the edge, (or over it) like resveratrol, then things like dosage form and adjuvants become a lot more significant.

Actually, there could be a third answer. It may be that simply doubling the dose of t-res from 2g to 4g is sufficient to swamp the body's metabolism, but that due to the side effects, i.e. the runs, Sirtris has decided to make the 2g of t-res go a long way by using excipients.

[Hedgehog]

I'm also not going to prepare a resveratrol cocktail; I take it in capsule form. I'm not persuaded there's a significant advantage to the form of ingestion--either way it's going to be processed in my gut.

If there were no advantage to dosing in a suspension, I'm pretty sure Sirtris would put SRT501 in capsules. They don't, and it tastes terrible. If a compound has great bioavailability, then the dosage form doesn't matter so much. When bioavailability is on the edge, (or over it) like resveratrol, then things like dosage form and adjuvants become a lot more significant.

Actually, there could be a third answer. It may be that simply doubling the dose of t-res from 2g to 4g is sufficient to swamp the body's metabolism, but that due to the side effects, i.e. the runs, Sirtris has decided to make the 2g of t-res go a long way by using excipients.

Here are some graphs I made based on a resveratrol paper (David J. Boocock et al)

Attached Files

•  res2.JPG   25.11KB   19 downloads
•  Resv1.JPG   23.87KB   22 downloads

[sUper GeNius]

I'm also not going to prepare a resveratrol cocktail; I take it in capsule form. I'm not persuaded there's a significant advantage to the form of ingestion--either way it's going to be processed in my gut.

If there were no advantage to dosing in a suspension, I'm pretty sure Sirtris would put SRT501 in capsules. They don't, and it tastes terrible. If a compound has great bioavailability, then the dosage form doesn't matter so much. When bioavailability is on the edge, (or over it) like resveratrol, then things like dosage form and adjuvants become a lot more significant.

Actually, there could be a third answer. It may be that simply doubling the dose of t-res from 2g to 4g is sufficient to swamp the body's metabolism, but that due to the side effects, i.e. the runs, Sirtris has decided to make the 2g of t-res go a long way by using excipients.

Here are some graphs I made based on a resveratrol paper (David J. Boocock et al)

What is the import, Hedge?

[Hedgehog]

I'm also not going to prepare a resveratrol cocktail; I take it in capsule form. I'm not persuaded there's a significant advantage to the form of ingestion--either way it's going to be processed in my gut.

If there were no advantage to dosing in a suspension, I'm pretty sure Sirtris would put SRT501 in capsules. They don't, and it tastes terrible. If a compound has great bioavailability, then the dosage form doesn't matter so much. When bioavailability is on the edge, (or over it) like resveratrol, then things like dosage form and adjuvants become a lot more significant.

Actually, there could be a third answer. It may be that simply doubling the dose of t-res from 2g to 4g is sufficient to swamp the body's metabolism, but that due to the side effects, i.e. the runs, Sirtris has decided to make the 2g of t-res go a long way by using excipients.

Here are some graphs I made based on a resveratrol paper (David J. Boocock et al)

What is the import, Hedge?

I used these numbers from the paper:

Resveratrol (g) 0.5 1 2.5 5 AUC (ng h/mL) 223.7 544.8 786.5 1319 Cmax (ng/mL) 72.6 117 268 538.8
NOTE: Values are the mean of n = 10

[maxwatt]

...
What is the import, Hedge?

In case Hedgehog's answer did not enlighten you, I think the point is that the dose vs. blood serum levels is not a linear relationship.
Taking twice as much reseratrol does not result in twice the level in the blood, though the level is higher than at the ower dose.

[Hedgehog]

...
What is the import, Hedge?

In case Hedgehog's answer did not enlighten you, I think the point is that the dose vs. blood serum levels is not a linear relationship.
Taking twice as much reseratrol does not result in twice the level in the blood, though the level is higher than at the ower dose.

Maybe this graph will help. The theoretical data is based on the 500mg data from the paper.

Attached Files

•  res.JPG   35.46KB   22 downloads

[TianZi]

Maxwatt,


Thanks for your post.

Let's see if I understand this correctly.

So you believe I'd enhance the bioavailability of my 500mg Biotivia Transmax resveratrol by simply cutting open the resveratrol capsule, cutting open my soy lecithin capsules, mixing the contents of both in a glass of water, and then drinking the water on an empty stomach? That's the "liquid suspension"?

By the way, do you have a link handy to the article in Nature magazine in which Sirtris discloses some details of their proprietary resveratrol formulation?

Edited by TianZi, 11 April 2008 - 08:35 AM.

[mikeinnaples]

Maxwatt,


Thanks for your post.

Let's see if I understand this correctly.

So you believe I'd enhance the bioavailability of my 500mg Biotivia Transmax resveratrol by simply cutting open the resveratrol capsule, cutting open my soy lecithin capsules, mixing the contents of both in a glass of water, and then drinking the water on an empty stomach? That's the "liquid suspension"?

By the way, do you have a link handy to the article in Nature magazine in which Sirtris discloses some details of their proprietary resveratrol formulation?

What 'I' do is mix with small amount of high proof clear alcohol (pick your brand), then mix with lecithin and a bit of warm water and take it like a shot. If this is the best method or not ....I have no clue.