46 replies to this topic

[goku]

I've been a tea fanatic for ages, started with black, then green and white, now matcha and sencha -- and this my friends is some crappy news:

http://articles.merc...de-thyroid.aspx

(nota bene: I had to leave an email in the box that pops up in order to read article -- but you can use a fake email -- i did)

I did some more digging, it really seems the fluoride in tea has become very high nowadays, and the tea leaf evidentally accumulates fluoride in much much higher levels than any other plant out there.

And indeed, as a heavy tea drinker, I have had hypothyroidism and frequent fatigue bouts for years. Now I think this may very well be causal in that problem.


Anyway, thoughts and opinions -- I'm definitely done with tea.

Any ideas on metal detoxing? Specifically fluoride?

[senseix]

I've been a tea fanatic for ages, started with black, then green and white, now matcha and sencha -- and this my friends is some crappy news:

http://articles.merc...de-thyroid.aspx

(nota bene: I had to leave an email in the box that pops up in order to read article -- but you can use a fake email -- i did)

I did some more digging, it really seems the fluoride in tea has become very high nowadays, and the tea leaf evidentally accumulates fluoride in much much higher levels than any other plant out there.

And indeed, as a heavy tea drinker, I have had hypothyroidism and frequent fatigue bouts for years. Now I think this may very well be causal in that problem.


Anyway, thoughts and opinions -- I'm definitely done with tea.

Any ideas on metal detoxing? Specifically fluoride?

You could look into chelation like, edta, ip6 stuff like that.

[nameless]

Do green tea (or mainly EGCG) supplements contain fluoride too, or has it been removed?

And how much fluoride does rooibos tea typically have? I'm not a big tea person, as green tea upsets my stomach sometimes, but I do drink some rooibos. I have considered EGCG supplements too, but haven't started any yet.

Edited by nameless, 21 April 2008 - 11:47 PM.

[maxwatt]

Do green tea (or mainly EGCG) supplements contain fluoride too, or has it been removed?

And how much fluoride does rooibos tea typically have? I'm not a big tea person, as green tea upsets my stomach sometimes, but I do drink some rooibos. I have considered EGCG supplements too, but haven't started any yet.

From The Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University

Tea plants accumulate fluoride in their leaves. In general, the oldest tea leaves contain the most fluoride (9). Most high quality teas are made from the bud or the first two to four leaves—the youngest leaves on the plant. Brick tea, a lower quality tea, is made from the oldest tea leaves and is often very high in fluoride. Symptoms of fluoride excess (i.e., dental and skeletal fluorosis) have been observed in Tibetan children and adults who consume large amounts of brick tea (10, 11). Unlike brick tea, fluoride levels in green, oolong, and black teas are generally comparable to those recommended for the prevention of dental caries (cavities). Thus, daily consumption of up to one liter of green, oolong, or black tea would be unlikely to result in fluoride intakes higher than those recommended for dental health (12, 13). The fluoride content of white tea is likely to be less than other teas, since white teas are made from the buds and youngest leaves of the tea plant. The fluoride contents of 17 brands of green, oolong, and black teas is presented in the table below (12). These values do not include the fluoride content of the water used to make the tea.

[mitkat]

Having a luddite problem reading the article, however I can tell you that some major tea producing countries have shoddy horticultural practises, follow few standards, and then export. Just like cheap imported food, avoid cheap imported tea. Buy high quality green and white teas - don't get freaked about fluoride - also I don't believe everything I read at Mercola, that's for sure. Tea is an incredibly healthy item to consume if you choose good quality and are willing to pay reasonable prices/watch your sources.

[niner]

Any ideas on metal detoxing? Specifically fluoride?

You could look into chelation like, edta, ip6 stuff like that.

You could, but it wouldn't do any good, since fluoride isn't a metal. Maybe you could find a hydroponically grown tea, or some other kind of tea that was fluoride free. Or limit yourself to one or two cups a day.

[senseix]

Any ideas on metal detoxing? Specifically fluoride?

You could look into chelation like, edta, ip6 stuff like that.

You could, but it wouldn't do any good, since fluoride isn't a metal. Maybe you could find a hydroponically grown tea, or some other kind of tea that was fluoride free. Or limit yourself to one or two cups a day.

Thats a bummer that neither would help remove flouride:(

[ajnast4r]

still gonna drink it

[InquilineKea]

Anyways I trust the epidemiological studies the most.

http://www.google.co...lient=firefox-a

Looks like they're mostly in favor of even heavy tea drinkers.

[goku]

Boron helps excrete fluoride the best -- and if you think a cup of tea at 5 for fluoride is safe -- realize that tap water is only 0.7-1.2 per liter, which many people already think is WAY way too high in superfluous fluoride (an extremely toxic substance even in extremely trace amounts)

IMO, there is zero reason to drink tea for antioxidants when there's so many other high ORAC plant life we consume.

Also, fluoride binds with aluminum in the body to create aluminum fluoride, which gets aluminum past the blood brain barrier --

The more I read the more convinced I am becoming fluoride is a huge bane society has been tragically misled about. Many places in continental europe have outright bans on fluoride in the drinking water -- the US, Canadians, and brits fill water with it in the name of preventing cavities -- it's quite silly when you dig into the information -- I watched some documentaries on the history of fluoride usage, and it's a very dark depiction indeed, entirely financially driven, not at all scientifically.

this was a good thread to peruse: http://www.earthclin...S/fluoride.html

I think this is a very big issue.

And here are some abstracts re: detoxifying from fluoride:

Journal of Pharmacology And Experimental Therapeutics, Vol. 74, Issue 2, 235-238, 1942 Copyright © 1942 by American Society for Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics

A STUDY OF ANTIDOTES FOR FLUORINE S. MARCOVITCH 1 and W. W. STANLEY 1

1 From the Department of Entomology, Agricultural Experiment Station, University of Tennessee, Knoxville

The fluoborates when fed in powdered form were found to be non-toxic to both rats and insects. In solution enough fluorine is liberated to produce toxic effects.

Both aluminum sulphate and hydrated lime are capable of saving animals from a lethal dose of sodium fluoride when mixed with the latter. Boric acid also has some value as an antidote through the formation of a fluoborate. The aluminum sulphate forms cryolite which was found to be much less toxic. When aluminum sulphate is mixed with the sodium fluoride and used as a roach powder, a lower kill is obtained than with sodium fluoride alone.

January 2002, Volume 56, Number 1, Pages 82-85 Table of contents Previous Article Next [PDF]

Original Communication Effect of tamarind ingestion on fluoride excretion in humans

A L Khandare, G S Rao and N Lakshmaiah

National Institute of Nutrition, Indian Council of Medical Research, Hyderabad, India

Correspondence to: A L Khandare, National Institute of Nutrition, Indian Council of Medical Research, Jamai Osmania PO, Hyderabad 500 007, AP, India. E-mail: alkhandare@yahoo.com

Research on Tamarind and Fluoride Removal:

Abstract

Objective: To evaluate the effect of tamarind (Tamarindus indicus) ingestion on excretion of fluoride in school children.

Design: Randomized, diet-control study.

Subject: Twenty healthy boys were included and 18 of them completed the study.

Interventions: Each subject consumed 10 g tamarind daily with lunch for 18 days at the social welfare boys' hostel. The nutrient composition of the daily diet was constant throughout the experimental period.

Results: Tamarind intake led to significant increase (P<0.001) in the excretion of fluoride in 24 h urine (4.8±0.22 mg/day) as compared to excretion on control diet (3.5±0.22 mg/day). However, excretion of magnesium and zinc decreased significantly (7.11±1.48 mg of Mg and 252.88±12.84 µg of Zn per day on tamarind diet as compared to 23.39±3.68 mg of Mg and 331.78±35.31 µg Zn per day on control diet). Excretion of calcium and phosphorous were not significantly different while creatinine excretion decreased with tamarind intake (225.66±81 mg creatinine/day with tamarind and 294.5±78.76 mg creatinine/day without tamarind).

Conclusion: Tamarind intake is likely to help in delaying progression of fluorosis by enhancing urinary excretion of fluoride.

Sponsorship: National Institute of Nutrition, Hyderabad, India (ICMR).

European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2002) 56, 82-85. DOI: 10.1038/sj/ejcn/1601287

Please see references material attached, especially:

1: Z Gesamte Hyg. 1977 Jan;23(1):14-20. Links [Results of animal experimental studies on rabbits with sodium fluoride and the effect of antidotes] [Article in German]

Baer HP, Bech R, Franke J, Grunewald A, Kochmann W, Melson F, Runge H, Wiedner W.

PMID: 842048 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Here is the research material on the fluoride antidote using boron:

Fluoride 1981; 14(1):21-29

Boron as antidote to fluoride: effect on bones and claws in subacute intoxication of rabbits

Elsair J, Merad R, Denine R, Azzouz M, Khelfat K, Hamrour M, Alamir B, Benali S, Reggabi M

Laboratories of Physiology, Toxicology and Galenic Pharmacy, Medical Institute, Algiers, Algeria

Summary: Rabbits were "subacutely" intoxicated by administration of 30 mg/kg/day of fluoride for 3 months followed by 15 mg/kg/day for a subsequent 3 months (F). Boron was given alone (B) as preventive and simultaneously with fluoride prophylactically (F + Bp), as well as therapeutically namely midway during the experimental period (F + Bpc) while fluoride was being administered and after it was discontinued (Bc compared with fluoirde interuption F*), at a constant F/B ratio. All groups were compared to normal controls.

Boron administered during fluoride intoxication or after its interruption, reduces fluoremia and increases urinary fluoride excretion. Skeletal fluoride levels are directly relatd to those of claws. They bear no relationship to fluoride in hair. The high fluoride content in bone in lot F decreases with addition of boron. It is still high in lot F* but returns to normal in loc Bc. Calcium content of bones remains normal in all lots. Posterior pad radiography shows a cortical thickness in lot F which is less pronounced in lots F + Bpc and F*, and returns to normal in lot Bc."

10/26/2007: Lois from Chicago, USA writes: "I don't know that Tamarind is so good for fluroide poisoning. Take a look at this website. It says that Tamarind has a very high fluoride count. That's why when people eat it, lots of fluoride comes out in the urine. [url="http://bruha.com/pfpc/html/tamarind.html""]http://bruha.com/pfpc/html/tamarind.html"[/url]

[goku]

by the way it's estimated fluoride is used in 1/3 of all pharmaceuticals -- it potentiates many substances thus the manufacturer needs to use less active substance for equal effect, saving money.

There is also significant evidence suggesting fluoride -- once used to treat hyperthyroidism and (in many cases destroying the thyroid), is the cause behind the epidemic occurances of hypothyroidism now seen in the general population, which is often misdiagnosed as fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue and a host of other idiopathic conditions poorly defined and understood.

A tube of generic toothpaste has enough fluoride to kill a baby if consumed. It's a very ubiquitous and highly illogical substance to be using by the medical and dental community, especially when the the studies that ostensibly showed fluoride is good protection against cavities is highly contested as legitimate whatsoever -- actually cocoa has recently been shown to be a much better strengthener of tooth enamel -- if filling your bones with fluoride and getting fluorosis makes sense for you as a way on strengthening your skeleton, I guess you work for the ADA.

I'd post but there's so much out there I encourage people to simply google this idea and see for themselves.

[goku]

a solid Q&A fast read:

http://www.earthclin..._questions.html

[Agarikon]

Does anyone know which teas have lowest flouride content?

and I wonder:

Is it possible to grow tea a certain way to yield low flouride? Or process it so their is lower flouride?

[zoolander]

did they test the tea leaves alone or did they test the tea. Water contains ~1ppm. Skeletal fluorosis can occur when the water supply exceeds 1ppm

[zoolander]

Look closely.....I'm betting mercola sells fluoride free tea

[maxwatt]

Does anyone know which teas have lowest flouride content?

and I wonder:

Is it possible to grow tea a certain way to yield low flouride? Or process it so their is lower flouride?

green tea, if prepared properly, contains only 0.25 ppm of fluoride, whereas other teas contains up to 28 times more of the substance or 7 ppm.

This quote is from an article: Calls for FDA to introduce tea fluoride safety standard in Food Navigator three years ago.

White tea is from even younger leaves than green tea, and should have even lower levels.

You can get a fluoride test kit here http://www.thomassci...g/product/26067
or here Hach Fluoride Test Kits

Edited by maxwatt, 22 April 2008 - 10:48 AM.

[zoolander]

I waiting for the fluoride conspiracy theorists to come out of the woodwork

[maxwatt]

I waiting for the fluoride conspiracy theorists to come out of the woodwork

To my surprise, there do seem to be some problems with high fluoride levels causing borderline thyroid deficiency problems. Enough so that some tea producers are looking to reduce fluoride levels in their product.

However, the amounts used in drinking water do not seem to pose a great risk of thyroid problems.

Klin Wochenschr. 1984 Jun 15;62(12):564-9.
Fluorine and thyroid gland function: a review of the literature.Bürgi H, Siebenhüner L, Miloni E.
The increasing use of fluoride for prevention of dental caries poses the problem as to whether this halogen has antagonistic properties towards iodine, whereby it could hamper the success of iodine prophylaxis of endemic goitre. Review of the literature shows that some authors have found an inhibition by fluoride of various steps of thyroid hormone biosynthesis in animal experiments. By and large, the inhibition was only slight and it was elicited only with fluoride doses greatly in excess of those recommended for caries prevention. The inhibition was not consistently present and other authors could not confirm it in comparable experiments. There is no convincing evidence that fluoride produces true goitres with epithelial hyperplasia in experimental animals. There are some reports based on casual observations that fluoride is goitrogenic in man. On the other hand, several good studies with adequate exposed and control populations failed to detect any goitrogenic effect of fluoride in man. It is noteworthy in particular that fluoride does not potentiate the consequences of iodine deficiency in populations with a borderline or low iodine intake. Published data failed to support the view that fluoride, in doses recommended for caries prevention, adversely affects the thyroid.
PMID: 6384648

The studies summarized above were looking at acute toxicity rather than at borderline hypothyroidism. It isn't clear to me yet if hte latter is or is not a problem. However, chronically high intake of some teas could be a problem. Green and white teas are much less likely to be a prblem.

Edited by maxwatt, 22 April 2008 - 11:04 AM.

[zoolander]

check out this paper

Perhasp Modified Citrus Pectin and Pectasol complex can help?

[s123]

If you are afraid of fluoride then just add some calcium.

F- (aq) + Ca2+ (aq) <--> CaF (v)

By adding some calcium the equilibrium will shift to the side of calcium fluoride.

[niner]

by the way it's estimated fluoride is used in 1/3 of all pharmaceuticals -- it potentiates many substances thus the manufacturer needs to use less active substance for equal effect, saving money.

This is just flat wrong. Kind of like most of the anti-fluoride propaganda. We've already beaten this thing to death; do a search.

[goku]

This was an estimation a pharmacist made, not me. It's often mixed in in small amounts not accounted for on label apparently

here's link for some drugs to check meds you currently take:

http://www.slweb.org...natedpharm.html

[sdxl]

They do not mix fluoride into drugs, fluoride makes part of some of the drug molecules.

[drunkfunk]

http://products.mercola.com/green-tea/ <- huh?

[mitkat]

http://products.mercola.com/green-tea/ <- huh?

Nice, you found the salespitch! I knew it had to be on that site somewhere...

[krillin]

They do not mix fluoride into drugs, fluoride makes part of some of the drug molecules.

There are some interesting papers about using MRIs calibrated for 19F instead of 1H to look at antidepressant concentrations in different parts of the body.

[drunkfunk]

like i'm about to let him ruin my joy of drinking matcha all day.
i already gave up drugs and premarital sex!
then the question becomes, what am i living for?

[InquilineKea]

calcium fluoride = undesirable

The mechanism of toxicity involves the combination of the fluoride anion with the calcium ions in the blood to form insoluble calcium fluoride, resulting in hypocalcemia; calcium is indispensable for the function of the nervous system, and the condition can be fatal.

[mediumspiny]

http://products.mercola.com/green-tea/ <- huh?

When I see things like this it gets my antennae up

Although green tea happens to be the most nutritious beverage on the planet, you also must be very careful about your source, as much of the inferior green teas (especially those grown in China, Pakistan, and India) contain potentially high levels of metals such as fluoride, lead, and aluminum.

As has been pointed out, fluorine is not a metal. Such simple mistakes make me wonder what else they have got wrong.