40 replies to this topic

[synaesthetic]

You might want to try a 1/4th of a 21mg nicotine patch. It has helped me with some ADD symptoms.
Here are some threads about it:

http://www.imminst.o...?showtopic=9481

http://www.imminst.o...&...=169&t=8742

[bgwithadd]

Hey, that is an interesting idea.

[Undaunted]

Well yeah, I am kinda new to this site, but I am glad I found it, especially this topic. For about 5 years now, I have been taking Adderall XR, at first it was only 25mg I think and has gradually increased to where I am now at 60mg a day. I started taking the adderall halfway through my 8th grade year of school, where I noticed a great improvement in my performance. It helped me all through high school. All along though, if I would mistakely forget to take it one morning, I would feel horriable the rest of the day, drowsie, etc. So I have always made the attempt to take the meds, to save myself from feeling like that, cause I cant stand it. But recently, while meeting with my doctor, he suggested that I all of a sudden stop taking 60mg a day and only take 30mg, after I have been taking 60mg for about 2 years. I tried it one day, I was fine for the morning, but then as the day went on, I felt the effects of it running out. I got very drowsy, couldnt focus on anything, and only want to sleep, which I wasnt able to do. I just dont know what I should do, it is a really bad time for me to be trying to adjust to something like this, what with college about to start and everything. Any suggestions on what anyone thinks could help.

Hi Oscar,

I also took Adderall for ADHD-Inattentive Type. Like you, I found over time I had to start increasing the dosage (up to 80 mgs) to achieve the same prior effectiveness. I was about ready to forego Adderall altogether and search for a new treatment when I stumbled accross the clinical trial results for Provigil. To make a long story short, it was a miracle. I found I was able to take a small dose of Provigil (50 mg) 2x a day along with the Adderall for a pure lucidity I hadn't achieved before. An additional side benefit the Provigil (alertness drug) provided was, over a short period of time I was able to significantly reduce my Adderall dosage from 75 mgs per day down to 10 mgs - yes, you read that right 10 mgs! I think the reason for this is the Provigil provides alertness and allays fatigue while the Adderall is able to zero-in and deal with the focus (or lack thereof) aspect of our problem.

Here is the dosage schedule that works best for me: 9:00 AM take 50 mgs Provigil and 5 mgs Adderall with late breakfast or low-carb mid-morning snack . . . Immediately after lunch take 50 mgs Provigil and 5 mgs Adderall. The Provigil will also diminish the drop off or let down you used to experience when the adderall's effectiveness wore off. The great thing about Provigil versus other stimulents is once your body adapts to a dosage you can simply raise or lower your morning dosage (i.e. down to 25 or up to 75 mgs) for just a couple days then you can return back to the normal dose again. It appears varying the dosage every few weeks higher or lower will ensure you are achieving the maximum efficacy. Again you only need to vary the dosage for a day or so roughly once a month, then you return back to the original dosage.

Also, If you don't already, you should incorporate a light workout program at least 2-3 times a week and eat smaller balanced (30% protein, 45% carb, 25% unsaturated fat) meals throughout the day.

I know just because this works for me doesn't necessarily mean it will for you. But if it works half as well for you as it has for me I guarantee you will be a very happy camper. Best wishes and please respond with your results.

Cheers!

[HighDesertWizard]

The effects of a low carb diet, high dose fish oil, and 5-Loxin Boswellia are great.

I've tried Modafinil and Adderall a bit. After doing Boswellia, I can't imagine a reason to do them ever again.

[luv2increase]

The effects of a low carb diet, high dose fish oil, and 5-Loxin Boswellia are great.

I've tried Modafinil and Adderall a bit. After doing Boswellia, I can't imagine a reason to do them ever again.

So boswellia has a very good effect on your cognitive abilities? Looks like I may have to add this one for sure. I was going to add it anyway to ensure healthy soft tissue support, but this definitely is the icing on the cake!

[luv2increase]

sorry, repeat post. delete please

thank ya much

Edited by luv2increase, 31 August 2008 - 08:07 AM.

[Jacovis]

Dan, I currently take memantine at 30mg/daily to stave off tolerance to the motivating/mood-boosting effects of dextroamphetamine, without having to raise the dose. I feel it's a little early to make a positive report on this combination, but it has worked fairly well without having to raise the dexedrine doses for four weeks.

Typically for me any motivation/mood effect (these being related to nucleus accumbens dopamine release) from d-amphetamine disappears after 2-3 days of stable dosing, only returning if the dose is increased, which becomes impossible as adrenaline-related side effects increase and retarded, tweaky behavior emerges. When the motivation goes it leaves a duller, subjectively zombifying concentrative effect (related to stimulation of prefrontal structures) which is tolerated much more slowly, and can and even sensitize, and that I feel is actually less therapeutic for me -- inattentive, with low-energy depression and social avoidance -- than the initial effects.

The working model that some have speculated on is that the additional mechanism of tolerance in the nucleus accumbens is related to glutamate overexcitation desensitizing dopamine neurons. Memantine, as a partial NMDA antagonist, is at the right dose suggested to block this overexcitation without compromising the healthy functioning that is required for learning and memory.

Effects of appetite suppression and weight loss from the sympathomimetic effects of amphetamine, though, will (fortunately for me -- I am already underweight, and unfortunately for you) always gain tolerance, and there is no mechanism that we know of to prevent this tolerance from occurring.

Except for, potentially, if the amphetamine helps you with focus or motivation, then it helping one to adopt and keep behaviors that promote health -- proper eating, exercise, etc.

No easy road in that department but there is certainly much hope.

If you genuinely have ADD, then you will probably not feel 'energetic' taking adderal, though. It should make you feel like waves of slowness and lethargy that bring your mind down to sane levels of speed instead of racing 10000 miles per hour and jumping around everywhere.

Not always. This is, roughly speaking, the difference between inattentive and hyperactive forms of the disorder, which are actually probably fairly different conditions. Pure hyperactive forms are rare in adulthood, as the prefrontal cortex catches up with an overdeveloped motor cortex. I am inattentive and quite zombie-like without medication -- dextroamphetamine energizes me.

graatch,
is the Memantine still working well for you at preventing tolerance to Dextroamphetamine's therapeutic effects?
Any side effects you have noticed from this protocol of combining Memantine with Dextroamphetamine?
What dosage of Dextroamphetamine have you been taking?
How are you obtaining your Memantine (you are not in the US right, is it hard to obtain legally in your location)?

Thanks in advance!

[graatch]

is the Memantine still working well for you at preventing tolerance to Dextroamphetamine's therapeutic effects?

It is, going into 12 weeks now. With this combination, I still notice a bit of tolerance to mood/motivational effect, which is taken care of by taking one day off the dextroamphetamine weekly. There's no question that for me this is very different from the tolerance that I acquire rapidly with dextroamphetamine alone.

Any side effects you have noticed from this protocol of combining Memantine with Dextroamphetamine?

Well, it's been a complex experience. I'm trying to use the internet less, but most of my more detailed memantine posts are collected on the mindandmuscle forums. Here is one thread that contains many of my experiences and primary thoughts on the matter: http://www.mindandmu...p...c=35395&hl=

What dosage of Dextroamphetamine have you been taking?

I take 70mg Vyvanse in the morning, and 10mg dextroamphetamine once or twice daily in the evening (the vyvanse's positive effects wear off quickly for me, "fast metabolizer", at about T+7 hours, so the booster doses extend the duration for as much as I want)

I take memantine at 30mg in the morning, 10mg in the evening.

How are you obtaining your Memantine (you are not in the US right, is it hard to obtain legally in your location)?

I now have been lucky enough to locate a doctor who I can speak to freely and legally prescribes my full dose to me off-label (for the real purposes of the combination -- relief of anhedonic depression and inattention) but I used to order it from overseas.

Thanks in advance!

Sure, glad to help. As I said, I haven't been using the internet much, but feel free to PM me with any questions, and check out the M&M thread.

Edited by graatch, 05 October 2008 - 11:59 PM.

[Rags847]

most of my more detailed memantine posts are collected on the mindandmuscle forums. Here is one thread that contains many of my experiences and primary thoughts on the matter: http://www.mindandmu...p...c=35395&hl=

Graatch, somethings wrong with that M&M link, it takes you to their site but not the specific thread. Got the direct link?

Thanks.

[graatch]

Whoops, try these: http://www.mindandmu...p...=35395&st=0
http://www.mindandmu...p...st&p=511349

Edited by graatch, 06 October 2008 - 07:13 AM.

[kurdishfella]

Adderall depletes your dopamine so it forces your body to make more by increasing its activity of conversion and seek certain foods