21 replies to this topic

[thenaturalstep]

My grandfather have some health issues and i am hopping you guys can suggest some health supplement for him.
His diagnose:
He is 79 years old and he have heart failures also he have had water in the lungs so he has to drink less fluid also he have had several small strokes, and his lung capacity is reduced. He has a pacemaker and he is taking waran (wafarin), so the health supplement must be compatible with wafarin. He have started to take stronger hearth medication recently but it doesn’t seems to help.

The problem is that he has almost no energy because of his health issues.

Do you guys know of any health supplement who could help him? (atleast to get some energie)

(Would resveratrol do any good?)

Kindly
Resveratrol

[unbreakable]

Coenzyme Q10
Propionyl-Carnitine
Magnesium Orotate
Taurine
Ribose
EPA/DHA
Hawthorn

Like many other supplements some of these can interact with drugs like Warfarin.

Is your Grandfather taking Carvedilol or just a Betablocker like Metoprolol? ACE-Inhibtors? Diuretics? I think optimizing the prescription drug regimen by a good cardiologist who is specialised in treating heart failure is one of the most important steps.

Edited by unbreakable, 08 August 2008 - 10:01 AM.

[nameless]

Ubiquinol might be a better option instead of regular CoQ10, although Ubiquinol may be more hype than science at this point. But some form of CoQ10, preferably in a fat soluble form, would be a good idea, with 200-300mg of CoQ10/daily a good starting point.

Several years ago I was diagnosed with Idiopathic Cardiomyopathy, which caused mild heart failure. 300mg of CoQ10 was recommended to me by my cardiologist, along with fish oil. Getting his vitamin D levels checked probably would be a good idea too.

And yeah, have him see a specialist in heart failure. Some hospitals have entire centers devoted to just heart failure treatment. I go to a specialized heart failure center/cardio myself. Coreg + ace inhibitor is a standard treatment too, so make sure he's not taking any peculiar or ineffective medicines there.

[Anthony_Loera]

FDA IND documentation from the Japanese manufacturers of Ubiquinol.

Interesting stuff is on page 8 and on...
FDA IND Application

So...
I prefer to use a water soluble CoQ10, for the price and amount you get.

A

[balance]

The following come to mind as top priority:

mk-7 vitamin k2 90mcg
green tea extract
blueberry pomegranate cocoa
venotone
ginkgo
r-lipoic acid Na-Rala
whole grape seed extract
gamma e with tocotrienols
resveratrol
curcumin (the higher absorbing one bio-curcumin)
Q10
fish oil
vitamin d3
natural astaxanthin 5-40mg
proprionyl-l-carnitine
DHEA
lots of magnesium as orotate/aspartate/glycinate
benfotiamine
carnosine 1000-3000mg

Edited by piet3r, 09 August 2008 - 01:16 AM.

[thenaturalstep]

Thank your for your replies
he have already visited a heart specialist, and he is taking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enalapril
and
U.S. Brand Names
Lopressor®; Toprol-XL®
It's active substance is:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Metoprolol

But it dosen't help he still has a very limitied fitness, he takes 3 steps then he needs to rest ...


/Twinsen

[shaggy]

I believe Creatine can be very useful to a failing heart.

Edited by shaggy, 10 August 2008 - 07:46 PM.

[luv2increase]

Regular good ole CoQ10 300mg-400mg daily in split dosages.... This among other things mentioned.

[nameless]

Thank your for your replies
he have already visited a heart specialist, and he is taking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enalapril
and
U.S. Brand Names
Lopressor®; Toprol-XL®
It's active substance is:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Metoprolol

But it dosen't help he still has a very limitied fitness, he takes 3 steps then he needs to rest ...


/Twinsen

You could ask his doctor why he is on Toprol-XL instead of Coreg. Although both are used for heart failure, sometimes patients have better results using one beta blocker instead of another. Coreg is generally considered the first type tried for heart failure, then Toprol, then Zebeta (I think). Worth asking his doc and see what he/she says.

[hamishm00]

What about the Linus Pauling recommendation of 5 grams of Lysine a day and high dose vitamin C?

[luv2increase]

What about the Linus Pauling recommendation of 5 grams of Lysine a day and high dose vitamin C?

Don't forget Proline

[unbreakable]

You could ask his doctor why he is on Toprol-XL instead of Coreg. Although both are used for heart failure, sometimes patients have better results using one beta blocker instead of another. Coreg is generally considered the first type tried for heart failure, then Toprol, then Zebeta (I think). Worth asking his doc and see what he/she says.

That's a very important point. Carvedilol should be used as first line treatment for chronic heart failure. Adding CoQ10 like luv2increase said is a good idea. Hawthorn, (Proprionyl)-Carnitine, Magnesium-Orotate, Taurine and D-Ribose could help to improve his condition IMHO.

[nameless]

If you are considering Hawthorn, just keep an eye out for drug interactions, and ask his doctor about it first.

I ran across this article a while ago:

http://www.theheart....ticle/875105.do

Which suggests it could worsen heart failure when taken with standard medications to treat the condition. And to confuse matters, I believe there was a previous study that stated it helped heart failure (no idea if it took into account drug interactions or not).

I'll assume his doctor suggested a specialized diet too. Low sodium will be very important. In your previous post you stated he has seen a heart specialist. Is this a heart failure specialist, or just a regular cardiologist?

Edited by nameless, 13 August 2008 - 11:34 PM.

[HighDesertWizard]

Efficacy and safety of berberine for congestive heart failure secondary to ischemic or idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy


This study was designed to assess the efficacy and safety of berberine for chronic congestive heart failure (CHF). One hundred fifty-six patients with CHF and >90 ventricular premature complexes (VPCs) and/or nonsustained ventricular tachycardia (VT) on 24-hour Holter monitoring were randomly divided into 2 groups. All patients were given conventional therapy for CHF, consisting of angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitors, digoxin, diuretics, and nitrates. Patients in the treatment group (n = 79) were also given berberine 1.2 to 2.0 g/day. The remaining 77 patients were given placebo. Symptoms, a 6-minute walk test, left ventricular (LV) ejection fraction (EF), frequency and complexity of VPCs, and quality of life were assessed after 8 weeks of treatment and during a mean 24-month follow-up. After treatment with berberine, there was a significantly greater increase in LVEF, exercise capacity, improvement of the dyspnea–fatigue index, and a decrease of frequency and complexity of VPCs compared with the control group. There was a significant decrease in mortality in the berberine-treated patients during long-term follow-up (7 patients receiving treatment died vs 13 on placebo, p <0.02). Proarrhythmia was not observed, and there were no apparent side effects. Thus, berberine improved quality of life and decreased VPCs and mortality in patients with CHF.

[hamishm00]

Don't forget Proline

Can you get that from supplementing with L-glutamine?

[Mixter]

100-300mg Ubiquinol is most important, second most important would be R-Alpha-Lipoic acid & Acetyl-L-Carnitine (=> energy for the heart muscle).

Third, if his heart failure is advanced (NYHA II and above), he will probably benefit from
Creatine and D-Ribose. For the creatine, his creatinine blood values must not be
high prior to starting. D-Ribose should always be safe, and replenish ATP reserves in
the heart muscle, which can mitigate heart failure and increase ejection fraction. I'm pretty
sure Ribose could prolong his life, and notably increase his energy, together with Ubiquinol.

On the medical side, is your grandpa taking a diuretic (e.g. Furosemide, Torasemide, Bumetanide...)???
If not, he should probably urgently get a prescription.. This is not direct medical advice, but make sure to discuss
it with his doctor. Patients with inoperable heart/lung failure generally benefit a lot from a standard treatment of:
diuretics, warfarin, and sometimes an ACE-inhibitor and a calcium channel antagonist. Someone should discuss
options in case any are missing, each of them (if applicable) can significantly prolong life in heart failure patients.

Edited by mixter, 14 August 2008 - 02:41 PM.

[Mixter]

Regarding debilitating mini-strokes, these become increasingly frequent with old age.

One important step is to get a lot more Vitamin B12: http://www.orbitoxyg...-deficiency.asp

To prevent further mini-strokes, he probably should go for 1000 mcg Methylcobalamin (Methyl-B12) sublingually each day.

[joseph583984]

These suggestions should hit on almost every aspect of heart disease:

vitamin C and mixed vitamin B
vitamin D3 (gelcaps) and vitamin K2 (as MK-7)
CoQ10
acetyl L-carnitine and carnosine and creatine
ribose or better yet, uridine or Triacetyluridine
nattokinase or Nattozimes

And these supplements would be overall beneficial to someone his age: pregnenolone, Glisodin, ellagic acid. I would be cautious with anything that is considered a vascodilator or anticoagulant at his age, and in his condition, especially in combination with the aforementioned medications.

Edited by joseph583984, 15 August 2008 - 12:32 PM.

[Lufega]

pycnogenol

Pycnogenol® in vitro study provides evidence of strengthening heart muscle.
Hasegawa, N., Kinoshita, H., and Mochizuki, M. (2007)
Pycnogenol Increases the Probability of the Contraction State in Chick Embryonic
Cardiomyocytes, indicating Inotropic Effects.
Phytother Res, 21: 181-182.

[krillin]

pycnogenol

Pycnogenol® in vitro study provides evidence of strengthening heart muscle.
Hasegawa, N., Kinoshita, H., and Mochizuki, M. (2007)
Pycnogenol Increases the Probability of the Contraction State in Chick Embryonic
Cardiomyocytes, indicating Inotropic Effects.
Phytother Res, 21: 181-182.

I think it would be more accurate to say that it stimulated the muscle rather than strengthen it. According to the abstract, it's a beta agonist. Inotropic drugs have drawbacks, so caution is warranted.

Phytother Res. 2007 Feb;21(2):181-2.
Pycnogenol increases the probability of the contraction state in chick embryonic cardiomyocytes, indicating inotropic effects.
Hasegawa N, Kinoshita H, Mochizuki M.
Department of Health and Nutrition, Faculty of Home Economics, Gifu Women's University, Gifu, Japan. hsgwn@gijodai.ac.jp

The influence of pycnogenol on the probability of contraction was studied in chick cardiomyocytes. Ventricles from 9-11 day chicken embryos were cultured. After 10-11 days in culture, stable spontaneous contractions were recorded and the contraction kinetics analysed. Isoproterenol and pycnogenol increased the probability of the contraction state. After pretreatment with the beta-receptor antagonist, propranolol reduced the isoproterenol- and pycnogenol-increased probability of contraction state. These data suggested that pycnogenol has inotropic effects via stimulation of beta-receptor mediated activity. Copyright © 2006 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

PMID: 17078108

Crit Care Med. 2008 Jan;36(1 Suppl):S106-11.
Inotropes in the management of acute heart failure.
Petersen JW, Felker GM.
Division of Cardiovascular Medicine, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC, USA.

Impaired cardiac contractility is a fundamental component of the heart failure syndrome, initiating the cycle of vasoconstriction, neurohormonal and inflammatory activation, and adverse ventricular remodeling that leads to heart failure progression. Based on this core paradigm, drugs that increase cardiac contractility (positive inotropes) are theoretically appealing as a heart failure therapy, and such agents have been extensively investigated in both acute and chronic heart failure. Although these agents clearly improve cardiac output, their use in heart failure has consistently been associated with increased myocardial oxygen demand, cardiac arrhythmias, and mortality in a variety of clinical settings. Based on these data, the routine use of inotropes as heart failure therapy is not indicated in either the acute or chronic setting. Inotropes may be a necessary evil in a subset of acute heart failure patients, such as those with acute heart failure decompensation in the setting of clinically evident hypoperfusion or shock, or as a bridge to more definitive treatment, such as revascularization or cardiac transplantation. Currently available inotropes, such as dobutamine and milrinone, act (directly or indirectly) by increasing cyclic adenylate monophosphate and therefore intracellular calcium flux. Whether newer inotropes with differing mechanisms of action will realize the potential clinical benefits of inotropic therapy without the risk remains a subject of ongoing investigation.

PMID: 18158469

[tomnook]

Your grandfather may benefit by taking Alagebrium ( ALT-711 ) : see here . Might be worthwhile seeing if Synvista are still recruiting for the "BENEFICIAL" study mentioned in the text.

Paul Wakfer has lots of information about this particular chemical at his and Kitty's Morelife site in the "Supplements" section link to Morelife

All the best

[Lufega]

Any updates on grandpa ?

Btw, I suggest Copper. I'm reading a lot of research that suggests that COPPER DEFICIENCY = ISCHEMIC HEART DISEASE

http://wholehealthso...ar-disease.html