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Minimum effect Retin-A (Tretinoin) use


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#1 edward

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 08:43 PM


OK all you skin gurus (Fredrik, Eva etc.) I am straying away from supplments, diet, nutrition etc. to ask a question as skin is not my area of expertise. It appears from what I have read on here (correct me if I am wrong as I am a novice when it comes to skin care), the original now pretty inexpensive Tretinoin is one of if not the best at stimulating a wide range of retinoid receptors. What is the minimum amount of applications per week one would need of say a 0.05% cream for it's rejuvenation and anti-aging effect on skin (I am trying to minimize the redness, peeling and irritation I get). Could one apply it once a week or twice a week, or? What about using a mild retinoid like Adapalene 0.3% (the only one I can tolerate everyday) every day but then Tretinoin once or twice a week, is that reasonable or would I be wasting my time.

edit: spelin n' gramur

I really want to change the title too but I can't. It should read something like "title: Minimum Applications, Minimum Side Effects Yet still a Robust Anti-Aging/Rejuvenating Effect?" subtitle: what is the minimum? is once or twice a week enough.

Edited by edward, 14 August 2008 - 09:54 PM.


#2 mustardseed41

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 10:42 PM

OK all you skin gurus (Fredrik, Eva etc.) I am straying away from supplments, diet, nutrition etc. to ask a question as skin is not my area of expertise. It appears from what I have read on here (correct me if I am wrong as I am a novice when it comes to skin care), the original now pretty inexpensive Tretinoin is one of if not the best at stimulating a wide range of retinoid receptors. What is the minimum amount of applications per week one would need of say a 0.05% cream for it's rejuvenation and anti-aging effect on skin (I am trying to minimize the redness, peeling and irritation I get). Could one apply it once a week or twice a week, or? What about using a mild retinoid like Adapalene 0.3% (the only one I can tolerate everyday) every day but then Tretinoin once or twice a week, is that reasonable or would I be wasting my time.

edit: spelin n' gramur

I really want to change the title too but I can't. It should read something like "title: Minimum Applications, Minimum Side Effects Yet still a Robust Anti-Aging/Rejuvenating Effect?" subtitle: what is the minimum? is once or twice a week enough.


I've been using Tretinoin everday since Eva made a strong case for doing so.
Best prices I've found are here http://www.alldayche.../Tretinoin.html

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#3 Eva Victoria

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 02:10 PM

OK all you skin gurus (Fredrik, Eva etc.) I am straying away from supplments, diet, nutrition etc. to ask a question as skin is not my area of expertise. It appears from what I have read on here (correct me if I am wrong as I am a novice when it comes to skin care), the original now pretty inexpensive Tretinoin is one of if not the best at stimulating a wide range of retinoid receptors. What is the minimum amount of applications per week one would need of say a 0.05% cream for it's rejuvenation and anti-aging effect on skin (I am trying to minimize the redness, peeling and irritation I get). Could one apply it once a week or twice a week, or? What about using a mild retinoid like Adapalene 0.3% (the only one I can tolerate everyday) every day but then Tretinoin once or twice a week, is that reasonable or would I be wasting my time.

edit: spelin n' gramur

I really want to change the title too but I can't. It should read something like "title: Minimum Applications, Minimum Side Effects Yet still a Robust Anti-Aging/Rejuvenating Effect?" subtitle: what is the minimum? is once or twice a week enough.


Hi Edward!

I enclose a chapter from a book called Photoaging. I think you'll find your answer there.

http://www.amazon.co...C...5785&sr=1-1

Attached Files



#4 Hoon

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 03:10 PM

If you are currently using Adapalene with no problems and are okay with the cost (generic tretinoin would probably be a cheaper option, unless you are getting your topicals from an online pharmacy such as alldaychemist, in which case the prices are probably similar), I see no reason for you to switch from adapalene to tretinoin or tazarotene. This is, of course, unless you are treating more severe photodamage and would like to use a more aggressive approach.

Some important notes:
- In aggressive tretinoin treatments in several studies, the patients eased up to a daily application of .05% for about a year and then maintained results with application 3-4 times a week
- In a study looking at the effects of adapalene on photoaging, using both .1% and .3%, both resulted in lightening of solar lentigines, and other improvements in the appearance of photoaged skin at an application of 2x a day (adapalene is stable in daylight, unlike tretinoin)
- Tazarotene is probably more expensive than tretinoin (again, unless you are purchasing from an online pharmacy), but also results in a faster onset of results. Also worth mentioning, the effects of tazarotene did not plateau after 52 weeks (whereas I believe, the effects of tretinoin did). Also, short-contact therapy (leaving on the product for 10 minutes to an hour) has been proven to be effective (without the irritation) with tazarotene. You may be interested in this option.

I suppose the main question is:
How severe is your photodamage?

If it is not too severe, adapalene or a 3-4 nightly application of tretinoin might be enough for you. If you are looking to correct more serious photodamage, you will likely want to use tretinoin or tazarotene and aim for eventual nightly application of the product. In the case of tazarotene, you may be able to minimize irritation through short-contact therapy.

Hope this was of some help!

#5 kismet

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 04:28 PM

- Tazarotene is probably more expensive than tretinoin (again, unless you are purchasing from an online pharmacy), but also results in a faster onset of results. Also worth mentioning, the effects of tazarotene did not plateau after 52 weeks (whereas I believe, the effects of tretinoin did). Also, short-contact therapy (leaving on the product for 10 minutes to an hour) has been proven to be effective (without the irritation) with tazarotene. You may be interested in this option.


I believe Fredrick mentioned  the plateauing being a misunderstanding? Don't remember the details, though.
Retinoids don't seem to merely treat photoaging, recently I read an abstract saying "There is in addition emerging evidence that topical retinoids could be beneficial in the treatment of intrinsically aged skin." Sounds promising, doesn't it?

#6 Hoon

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 04:47 PM

I believe you are referencing Fredrik's quote from the "Anti-Aging Supplements" thread. He was responding to a comment that suggested that tretinoin's effects FADE and the appearance of the treated group becomes the same as the control's. This is not what I meant by the plateau. I am saying that tretinoin's effects on the apparent signs of aging improved to a point but reached a peak before 52 weeks (though continued use would undoubtedly continue to slow the signs of aging and maintain the reduction in solar lentigines). Tazarotene did not reach its peak before 52 weeks (hence the lack of a plateu), suggesting that its peak could be reached later, possibly resulting in greater improvement in appearance.

Here is Fredrik's quote for reference:

"QUOTE (rodentman)By the way.. I heard that the effects of Retin-A as a colligen enhancer fade after about a year or so of use, and the control groups start to look identical to the placebo groups.

RodentMan
FREDRIK: This may come off as arrogant but what you´ve heard is an misunderstanding. I think I know where this comes from. The visual graded signs of improvement on aging skin PLATEUED after about 52 weeks. But after that initial imrovement tretinoin will continue to inhibit collagenase and elastase and dyspigmentation so your skin will age MUCH slower than if you haven´t been using it at all. It will stay more firm, even, clear and unwrinkled.

Interesting side note, tazarotene did not plateu after a year."

- Tazarotene is probably more expensive than tretinoin (again, unless you are purchasing from an online pharmacy), but also results in a faster onset of results. Also worth mentioning, the effects of tazarotene did not plateau after 52 weeks (whereas I believe, the effects of tretinoin did). Also, short-contact therapy (leaving on the product for 10 minutes to an hour) has been proven to be effective (without the irritation) with tazarotene. You may be interested in this option.


I believe Fredrick mentioned the plateauing being a misunderstanding? Don't remember the details, though.
Retinoids don't seem to merely treat photoaging, recently I read an abstract saying "There is in addition emerging evidence that topical retinoids could be beneficial in the treatment of intrinsically aged skin." Sounds promising, doesn't it?





#7 Eva Victoria

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 03:46 PM

Here is a link about Retinoids that Ben-Aus has posted the other day at Hoon's thread:

http://www.medscape....rticle/464026_1

It was very informative!!!

#8 davpet

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 03:12 AM

From the official Renova website : http://www.aboutrenova.com/

"RENOVA (Retin-A) DOES NOT ELIMINATE WRINKLES, REPAIR SUN-DAMAGED
SKIN, REVERSE PHOTOAGING, or RESTORE MORE YOUTHFUL or YOUNGER SKIN."

#9 Ben

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 03:52 AM

From the official Renova website : ***

"RENOVA (Retin-A) DOES NOT ELIMINATE WRINKLES, REPAIR SUN-DAMAGED
SKIN, REVERSE PHOTOAGING, or RESTORE MORE YOUTHFUL or YOUNGER SKIN."



From the Renova website:

"As part of a comprehensive skincare and sun avoidance program, RENOVA 0.02% can reduce the signs of photodamage, helping to smooth out fine facial wrinkles"

***

Obviously no product can do any of that completely. What we are talking about is treating. Emphasis on the treating (not how I refused the horrible temptation to use capitals like "TREATING!!! ARRRRR"). Treating until a product or treatment comes out that completely reverses.

(edited by Matthias: in this case the caps are part of the source (or here) )

Edited by Matthias, 19 August 2008 - 09:48 AM.


#10 davpet

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 06:37 AM

***


That's a direct cut and paste from the Renova package insert.

See for youself : http://www.fda.gov/c.../21108s1lbl.pdf.

***

(edited by Matthias: yes, it is a direct cut and paste)

Edited by Matthias, 19 August 2008 - 09:38 AM.


#11 Hoon

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:59 AM

??? Why so much hostility?

In any case, looking at the numerous studies that have been posted/cited on this forum and elsewhere, I don't see how you could deny tretinoin's value in treating photodamaged skin. Also, considering Edward's young age, the use of a retinoid may be more of a preventative measure than an aggressive treatment.

#12 Eva Victoria

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:59 AM

I would like to add two things here:
There is no need to use ugly language at this forum. It'll only have a negative effect towards you.

Second:
That there is no one topical agent has so great effects on the aging skin as a combination of 2 or 3 of them.
So basically, using Azaleic Acid in the morning (10-20% conc.) or Phytic Acid (4% concentration) and/or Vit. C (L-Ascorbic Acid 10-25% conc.) + Sunscreen.
Evening: 0,05-0,1% Tretinoin (1 inch) mixed with Azaleic Acid (1/2 inch), no moisturizer used at least 1 hour after treatment. You'll see great benefits from 6-12 weeks depending on the greatness of photo damage. The more damage one has the more pronounced the effects will be.

It goes without saying that trying a treatment of this kind should always be supervised by a dermatologist. However there are reversible effects of this treatment in a few days after stopping if side effects should be unbearable.
Side effects include: redness, scaling, itching, irritation of the treated area. These side effects subside within 4 weeks even with continued use.

#13 davpet

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 09:16 AM

Second:
That there is no one topical agent has so great effects on the aging skin as a combination of 2 or 3 of them.
So basically, using Azaleic Acid in the morning (10-20% conc.) or Phytic Acid (4% concentration) and/or Vit. C (L-Ascorbic Acid 10-25% conc.) + Sunscreen.
Evening: 0,05-0,1% Tretinoin (1 inch) mixed with Azaleic Acid (1/2 inch), no moisturizer used at least 1 hour after treatment. You'll see great benefits from 6-12 weeks depending on the greatness of photo damage. The more damage one has the more pronounced the effects will be.


Eva Victoria, why do you use Azelaic acid and not Glycolic acid ? Does Azelaic acid function as a anti-inflammatory ?

I am unaware of any studies using Azelaic acid to treat photodamage. If there are any, could you please list them ?

From what I can find it is useful for treating melasma, which has more to do with the interaction of female hormones and sunlight, than photodamage.

Edited by davpet, 19 August 2008 - 09:55 AM.


#14 Hoon

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:48 AM

I believe Eva recommends azelaic acid over glycolic due to its effect on hyperpigmentation, its anti-inflammatory effect and its ability to act as an anti-oxidant. I believe that its effect on pigmentation is not limited to melasma, as the same mechanism would be helpful in lightening solar lentigines (not unlike the use of hydroquinone to lighten such dyspigmentation from photodamage). On a related note, there is a study about the combined effect of azelaic and glycolic acid. I will include pubmed link. Here are a few excerpts from studies and links to the full articles:

In relation to hyperpigmentation:
"Azelaic acid may also be helpful, particularly during pregnancy as it is pregnancy category B. This chemical inhibits DNA synthesis in melanocytes and has a modest antityrosinase effect (2). Comparisons of azelaic acid to 2% hydroquinone revealed superiority with azelaic acid, but no significant difference from 4% hydroquinone (11,12). Pruritus, mild transient erythema, scaling, and burning may occur (13)."
link: http://findarticles....ag=artBody;col1

On the combined effect of azelaic and glycolic acids:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ogdbfrom=pubmed

On its anti-inflammatory effects:
"One of the most effective topical treatments for mild to moderate papulopustular rosacea is azelaic acid (AzA), a naturally occurring dicarboxylic acid that has proven anti-inflammatory effects, as well as antikeratinizing and antimicrobial action, although its mechanism of action in rosacea is not well understood. (5-8) Azelaic acid 15% aqueous gel was approved for mild to moderate papulopustular rosacea in the US in 2002 and in the European Union in 2003-the first new drug class to be approved for rosacea in more than a decade. (6) Among the advantages offered by the micronized solubilized 15% gel formula over the previously used 20% cream formulation (indicated for the treatment of mild to moderate acne vulgaris) are improved drug release and better absorption."
link: http://goliath.ecnex...5-gel-once.html

On its role as an anti-oxidant:
"Free radicals are believed to contribute to hyperpigmentation, and azelaic acid acts by reducing free radical production"
link: http://www.medscape....rticle/482649_4

#15 davpet

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 11:27 AM

I believe Eva recommends azelaic acid over glycolic due to its effect on hyperpigmentation, its anti-inflammatory effect and its ability to act as an anti-oxidant. I believe that its effect on pigmentation is not limited to melasma, as the same mechanism would be helpful in lightening solar lentigines (not unlike the use of hydroquinone to lighten such dyspigmentation from photodamage).


Yes, but unless you have pigmentation problems, glycolic acid would be superior over azelaic acid in terms of anti-aging as it increases collagen synthesis.

#16 Hoon

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 11:33 AM

Does glycolic acid stimulate collagen synthesis at the concentrations found in OTC products (usually 8-10%)? I thought the studies on collagen production were related to higher concentration peels performed at the doctor's office. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Having said that, I am also a fan of a well-formulated glycolic acid product, but mainly for its ability to exfoliate and get rid of flaky skin from retinoid use. I do not count on it to prevent the loss of or rebuild collagen.

Also, unless you are experiencing excessive irritation, I see no problem is using glycolic and azelaic acid together.

Edited by Hoon, 19 August 2008 - 11:33 AM.


#17 Eva Victoria

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 12:01 PM

Second:
That there is no one topical agent has so great effects on the aging skin as a combination of 2 or 3 of them.
So basically, using Azaleic Acid in the morning (10-20% conc.) or Phytic Acid (4% concentration) and/or Vit. C (L-Ascorbic Acid 10-25% conc.) + Sunscreen.
Evening: 0,05-0,1% Tretinoin (1 inch) mixed with Azaleic Acid (1/2 inch), no moisturizer used at least 1 hour after treatment. You'll see great benefits from 6-12 weeks depending on the greatness of photo damage. The more damage one has the more pronounced the effects will be.


Eva Victoria, why do you use Azelaic acid and not Glycolic acid ? Does Azelaic acid function as a anti-inflammatory ?

I am unaware of any studies using Azelaic acid to treat photodamage. If there are any, could you please list them ?

From what I can find it is useful for treating melasma, which has more to do with the interaction of female hormones and sunlight, than photodamage.


Thank you Hoon for posting the links! :)
Azelaic Acid is a very potent anti-oxidant naturally occurring in plants (f. ex.barley).
Why I recommend it against photo damage is that it can be used as a vehicle to transport Tretinoin deeper in the skin layers hence enhance its effect.
Secondly, it does exfoliates the skin which will also make that other drugs will have an easier way to penetrate the skin hence have greater effect faster.
Azaleic Acid is a strong anti-inflammatory which can also help reduce dermatitis from prolonged Tretinoin use.

The usage of Azaleic Acid is very controversial among dermatologists however a few do recommend it for the treatment of photo aging together with other agents like Tretinoin. Remember that Tretinoin and also Azelaic Acid are approved only as drugs for the treatment of Acne (none of them are approved as the treatment of photo aging but they are still used for this as the only topical agents available against photo aging today).

I personally have used 20% Azaleic Acid mixed with 10% Glycolic Acid (have seen it lately as used for treatment og melasma also by derms.) for a long time. I also add 10% L-Ascorbic-Acid to the mixture and store it in the fridge.
Have some clients who have used this mixture Am and Tretinoin 0,05% mixed with 20% Azaleic Acid Pm with great success when it comes to minimizing, sluggish skin, wrinkles, melasma. Generally their skin looked younger, fresher, more even skin tone and less lined. These changes were visible after approx. 6 weeks but for some it took as long as 24 weeks. Many of them still tell me after 2 years of use that they still see improvement in their skin. (These are women of age 45-60 with considerable photo damage).

Here is a link to several articles/studies about the effect of Azaleic Acid.

http://search.medsca...xt=azelaic acid

I found an other prersentation an Medscape the other day and you and your thread about Facial rejouvenation spring in my mind:

http://www.medscape....rticle/488415_1

It says among others about facial rejouv. that there are 3 types:

1.Medical Rejouvenation:
Anti-oxidants, retinoids, Growth-factors, AHAs.

2.Procedural rejouvenation:
Resurfacing, Fillers, Botox, Volumetric treatments, Thermage.

3.Surgical rejouvenation:
Liposuction, Blepharoplasty, Rhytidectomy, Implants.

http://www.medscape....rticle/488415_4


Here is the table of Off-label use of Topical Retinoids. This is from the link Ben-Aus kindly provided us with! I enclose the article from Medsacape in .doc so every body can have the pleasure to read it. (Tretinoin Therapy.doc)


Table 2. Indicated vs. Off-Label Use of Topical Retinoids


Indicated uses

Acne Vulgaris

  • Tretinoin (Retin-A®, Retin-A Micro®, Avita®)
  • Adapalene (Differin®)
  • Tazorotene gel or cream (Tazorac®)
Adjunct to Comprehensive Skin Care and Sunlight Avoidance Programs in the Palliation of Fine Wrinkles, Mottled Hyperpigmentation, and Tactile Roughness of Facial Skin

  • Tretinoin (Renova®)
Plaque Psoriasis

  • Tazarotene gel or cream (Tazorac®)
An Adjunctive Agent for the Use in the Mitigation (Palliation) of Fine Wrinkling, Facial Mottled Hyper and Hypopigmentation, and Benign Facial Lentigines in Patients Who Use Comprehensive Skin Care and Sunlight Avoidance Programs

  • Tazarotene cream (Avage®)
Off-Label uses

Photoaging/Intrinsic aging
Actinic keratoses/Actinic lentigines
Pre-malignant oral lesions
Rosacea
Verruca
Hypertrophic scars/Keloids/Acne scars/Striae
Cutaneous lichen planus
Melasma
Darier's disease
Wound healing
Granular parakeratosis
Multiple miliary osteoma cutis
Alopecia areata
Nevus sebaceous
Acanthosis nigricans

Sources: Allergan (2002); NPPR (2003)

So as you can see there are different usage of topical agents than they are approved for by the FDA. And it is also valid for Azaleic Acid, Hydroquinone (approved for skin lightening but can be used successfully in the treatment of acne which it is not approved for).

Attached Files



#18 davpet

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 12:09 PM

Does glycolic acid stimulate collagen synthesis at the concentrations found in OTC products (usually 8-10%)? I thought the studies on collagen production were related to higher concentration peels performed at the doctor's office. Please correct me if I am wrong.


The problems with most glycolic acid products, is that alot of companies, want to offer a high percentage of glycolic acid without the irritation so they buffer the acid - thus rendering it largely ineffective. They care more about sales than your results. Thus you should look for products that give the Free Acid Value (FAV) (eg. If you buy a 8% glycolic acid cream it's FAV is probably about 3-4%). Glytone is the only company i know that lists the FAV. I know you can purchase their products OTC up to a 20% FAV. Neostrata also offers a high potency cream at 18% glycolic acid but they do not indicate it's FAV.

From : http://www.dermstore..._Glytone_16.htm

Glycolic acid is a type of alpha hydroxy acid that is made from sugar cane. It weakens the bonds between cells in the dead outer layer of skin, which helps with exfoliation and speeds up the normal skin shedding process. By helping to remove this dull layer of dead skin cells and therefore revealing the new skin cells underneath, glycolic acid improves the texture of skin, unclogs pores, can reduce the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles and may aid in the building of collagen and elastin, which help to make skin firmer.

There are numerous companies out there that sell products that contain glycolic acid, and many of them state the percentage of total glycolic acid in each product. Glytone, however, is unique because they decided years ago to clearly and concisely state science-based product information. For that reason, they publish the percentage of glycolic acid actually available for activity in each of their products upon application to the skin, which is the more important clinically relevant number. “For example,” explains dermatologist and DermStore.com founder Dr. Craig Kraffert, “some glycolic lines have a high concentration of glycolic compound, say 30 percent, but if one third of it is buffered; the actual bioavailable percentage of glycolic acid on the skin is only 20 percent.” Dr. Craig believes that this openness speaks to the scientific integrity of Glytone and is evidence of their commitment to maximizing the value of their product offering through information and education.

Edited by davpet, 19 August 2008 - 12:12 PM.


#19 davpet

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 12:17 PM

From : <A href="http://dianayvonne.z...y/16.aboutpeels

A closer look at the pH and Percents of AHA's




How important is the pH of an acid? The concentration of �free� acid is what determines activity (table); Product pH is a critical aspect of efficacy with acids. Although higher concentrations of AHA should be more potent, pH is more important as the following tables illustrates.

The efficacy of alpha hydroxy acids depends less on the specific AHA that is being used, but rather on the concentration of the AHA and the pH of the medium in which it is used. For skin renewal, a lower (more acidic) pH and higher concentration of acid are more effective. Lactic acid both pH and concentration are critical. At a fixed lactic acid concentration (lactic acid 10%), the desquamative (exfoliation) effect was highly pH dependent. At a fixed pH (lactic acid percentage 5%, 10%, 15% at fixed pH of 3.0), the turnover rate of skin was concentration dependent. The desquamative and proliferation-stimulating effects of lactic acid are very pH and concentration dependent.[5]

In determining what you want to accomplish, the free acid value of the AHA is responsible for cell renewal stimulation. A 4% free acid is usually the threshold minimum for this effect.

Free Acid ValueEffect0% - 2%Increased moisturization2% - 4%Smoother, softer skin. Moderate increase in glycosaminoglycans (GAGs).4% - 8%Moderate increase in squamous cell turnover. Significant increase in GAGs.8% - 12%Significant increase in squamous cell turnover. Moderate increase in collagen deposition12% - 15%Significant increase in collagen deposition. Thicker, less fragmented elastic fibers 20%Reversal in basal cell atypia. More uniform melanin pattern The following table demonstrates how the pH effects the Free Acid Values of AHA's. It will help you determine the Free Acid Value of an AHA that you might elect to work with, or have worked with in the past along, and how Free Acid Values relate to accomplishing skincare goals.

Percent of Glycolic on LabelpHFree Acid Value7%1.86.9%8%3.674.7%12%3.38.5%15%3.778%20%4.34.8%20%3.414.6%20%2.5518.650%1.350%As demonstrated in the above tables, working with a 20% AHA at 4.3 pH will have less effect on squamous cell turnover and less collagen deposition than working with a 7% solution at 1.8 pH.



#20 Eva Victoria

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 12:27 PM

I would like to add one more thing:
What I have learnt about skin is that you have enormous possibilities when it comes to treat aging with topical agents but still the best solution won't come from an Rx drug but from a well-formulated full protection sunscreen-use from early on, every day and rigorous sun-avoidance!
So the bottom line is:
No drug can or will give back your youth when it is once gone! :(
So the best investment is in SUNSCREEN!

#21 kismet

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:47 PM

So would you suggest to use azelaic acid in the evenings together with a retinoid, how far apart? I'm currently using azelaic acid for acne, I do prefer to apply it in the evening, as it's slightly irritating/exfoliating.

#22 Eva Victoria

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 07:38 PM

So would you suggest to use azelaic acid in the evenings together with a retinoid, how far apart? I'm currently using azelaic acid for acne, I do prefer to apply it in the evening, as it's slightly irritating/exfoliating.


If you are young you won't need to use Azaleic Acid together with Tretinoin in the evening. But if you feel that Tretinoin won't give you the results you would like than to boost its effect you can mix 1 inch of Tretinoin with 0.5 inch Azaleic acid and massage it in cleansed and fully dry skin. Don't use a moisturizer. If you need one, wait at least an hour before doing so. You should still use Azaleic Acid in the morning on cleansed skin.
If it is very irritating on your skin then just go back to Tretinoin in the evening and Azaleic Acid in the morning.

#23 TheFountain

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 08:00 PM

I would like to add two things here:
There is no need to use ugly language at this forum. It'll only have a negative effect towards you.

Second:
That there is no one topical agent has so great effects on the aging skin as a combination of 2 or 3 of them.
So basically, using Azaleic Acid in the morning (10-20% conc.) or Phytic Acid (4% concentration) and/or Vit. C (L-Ascorbic Acid 10-25% conc.) + Sunscreen.
Evening: 0,05-0,1% Tretinoin (1 inch) mixed with Azaleic Acid (1/2 inch), no moisturizer used at least 1 hour after treatment. You'll see great benefits from 6-12 weeks depending on the greatness of photo damage. The more damage one has the more pronounced the effects will be.

It goes without saying that trying a treatment of this kind should always be supervised by a dermatologist. However there are reversible effects of this treatment in a few days after stopping if side effects should be unbearable.
Side effects include: redness, scaling, itching, irritation of the treated area. These side effects subside within 4 weeks even with continued use.


Where do you acquire Azaleic and Phytic acid?

Is this a good formulation?

http://www.drugdeliv...ELAIC-ACID.aspx

Edited by TheFountain, 27 May 2009 - 08:05 PM.


#24 Eva Victoria

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 03:54 PM

I would like to add two things here:
There is no need to use ugly language at this forum. It'll only have a negative effect towards you.

Second:
That there is no one topical agent has so great effects on the aging skin as a combination of 2 or 3 of them.
So basically, using Azaleic Acid in the morning (10-20% conc.) or Phytic Acid (4% concentration) and/or Vit. C (L-Ascorbic Acid 10-25% conc.) + Sunscreen.
Evening: 0,05-0,1% Tretinoin (1 inch) mixed with Azaleic Acid (1/2 inch), no moisturizer used at least 1 hour after treatment. You'll see great benefits from 6-12 weeks depending on the greatness of photo damage. The more damage one has the more pronounced the effects will be.

It goes without saying that trying a treatment of this kind should always be supervised by a dermatologist. However there are reversible effects of this treatment in a few days after stopping if side effects should be unbearable.
Side effects include: redness, scaling, itching, irritation of the treated area. These side effects subside within 4 weeks even with continued use.


Where do you acquire Azaleic and Phytic acid?

Is this a good formulation?

http://www.drugdeliv...ELAIC-ACID.aspx


Raw materials I buy from producers. But there is a prescription medication Azaleic Acid Creme with 20% Azaleic Acid: Skinoren (Scherring) and one with 15% Finexa (Scherring). These you can get from a doctor.

#25 TheFountain

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 08:25 PM

I would like to add two things here:
There is no need to use ugly language at this forum. It'll only have a negative effect towards you.

Second:
That there is no one topical agent has so great effects on the aging skin as a combination of 2 or 3 of them.
So basically, using Azaleic Acid in the morning (10-20% conc.) or Phytic Acid (4% concentration) and/or Vit. C (L-Ascorbic Acid 10-25% conc.) + Sunscreen.
Evening: 0,05-0,1% Tretinoin (1 inch) mixed with Azaleic Acid (1/2 inch), no moisturizer used at least 1 hour after treatment. You'll see great benefits from 6-12 weeks depending on the greatness of photo damage. The more damage one has the more pronounced the effects will be.

It goes without saying that trying a treatment of this kind should always be supervised by a dermatologist. However there are reversible effects of this treatment in a few days after stopping if side effects should be unbearable.
Side effects include: redness, scaling, itching, irritation of the treated area. These side effects subside within 4 weeks even with continued use.


Where do you acquire Azaleic and Phytic acid?

Is this a good formulation?

http://www.drugdeliv...ELAIC-ACID.aspx


Raw materials I buy from producers. But there is a prescription medication Azaleic Acid Creme with 20% Azaleic Acid: Skinoren (Scherring) and one with 15% Finexa (Scherring). These you can get from a doctor.


How does what I linked you to look? Pwease pwease pwease tell me?

#26 Eva Victoria

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 03:14 PM

I would like to add two things here:
There is no need to use ugly language at this forum. It'll only have a negative effect towards you.

Second:
That there is no one topical agent has so great effects on the aging skin as a combination of 2 or 3 of them.
So basically, using Azaleic Acid in the morning (10-20% conc.) or Phytic Acid (4% concentration) and/or Vit. C (L-Ascorbic Acid 10-25% conc.) + Sunscreen.
Evening: 0,05-0,1% Tretinoin (1 inch) mixed with Azaleic Acid (1/2 inch), no moisturizer used at least 1 hour after treatment. You'll see great benefits from 6-12 weeks depending on the greatness of photo damage. The more damage one has the more pronounced the effects will be.

It goes without saying that trying a treatment of this kind should always be supervised by a dermatologist. However there are reversible effects of this treatment in a few days after stopping if side effects should be unbearable.
Side effects include: redness, scaling, itching, irritation of the treated area. These side effects subside within 4 weeks even with continued use.


Where do you acquire Azaleic and Phytic acid?

Is this a good formulation?

http://www.drugdeliv...ELAIC-ACID.aspx


Raw materials I buy from producers. But there is a prescription medication Azaleic Acid Creme with 20% Azaleic Acid: Skinoren (Scherring) and one with 15% Finexa (Scherring). These you can get from a doctor.


How does what I linked you to look? Pwease pwease pwease tell me?


I honestly don't know. There is nothing that would describe the 10% Azaleic Acid Generic Creme. I would need to see the ingredient list to be able to say anything about this product.
But I would rather trust a dermatologist and his prescription than a website.




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