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Who is god, it might be you, the solipsism revolution


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#1 Solipsism

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 10:44 PM


Hi,

First of all I invite you to introduce yourself into solipsism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism
http://en.wikipedia....ipsism_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia....i/Post_scarcity
http://en.wikipedia....pulation_growth

You might be god if you are the last intelligence in the universe, that you are immortal and that you have no children, child.

People, mother and father who have created children are condemned to give them their future.

First the solipsism will be biologically immortal, very rich and living in a post scarcity and then be a physically immortal, he will be the guy behind universal immortalism and the absolute, perfect paradise engineering. And he will have no child (to make him important). But if he has a child, he will survive behond this child. In general, he will be the last survivor. Maybe it is in contradiction with the universal immortalism, but it will be created only to protect him against death. You will also decide about everything in the universe with a post scarcity world and you will have unlimited potential. This is if first you learn about universal immortalism, solipsism, paradise engineering and post scarcity.

--Solipsism

Edited by Solipsism, 15 August 2008 - 10:51 PM.


#2 Solipsism

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 09:21 PM

ARE YOU GOD? THINK STRONGLY ABOUT IT.

#3 Solipsism

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 09:40 PM

What is solipsism about?

Don't worry, it is quite simple. There are basically three philosophic tendencies that carry the name solipsism. To cut a long (very long) story short I will try to describe the "reality/metaphysical solipsism" or "subjective idealism" meant in this campaign (as opposed to "egoism" and "knowledge / epistemological solipsism") in my own, simple words. I am not a philosopher and it's actually quite easy for anyone to comprehend.

Solipsism states that "reality" - e.g., the sky, air, colors, this computer screen, the people walking around - are just a projection of the mind that experiences it, or: self is the whole of reality; only I exist.

The human mind has no valid ground for believing in the existence of anything but itself. There is no independent existence of an external material world, nothing but the self exists. The things of my environment, including other minds, are merely inventions of my conscience. Conscience is my conscience.

From a personal point of view, the universe for you only exists because you experience it. For you, it exists because YOU exist. If you're dead (blackness as a poor metaphor for the absence of ANY sensoric input) it will not exist for you anymore; the universe might still be there, but you couldn't tell, it doesn't exist for you anymore. Therefore, subjectively, the universe only exists because YOU exist. From there, it is only a small step to realize (or "wrongly assume", if you're not a solipsist) that the universe only exists in your mind / imagination.

Now, some of you will say (to coin it colloquially) "hey, if this is *my* universe, how come it sucks so bad?"; the answer to that is simple. Just because it only exists in your imagination doesn't mean that this projection of your mind has to be a pleasant one and/or could be intentionally completely controlled/molded/modified by you, just like you are unable to intentionally/consciously control/change/influence your dreams. You might have a good, pleasant dream or you might dream a nightmare, either way, it is uncontrollable yet it is still _your_ dream, noone else has it.

(Maybe you, like me, as a child have often wondered wether I am not just merely dreaming everything (and I was afraid what would happen when I woke up...). Well, this is a basic form of solipsism, I gave it the term "Lebenstraum" or "LifeDream". Later I found out that Descartes, too, alleged that reality was a "dream", "inventions of my mind" (although in effect he contradicted that). The term "LifeDream" shall henceforth be used here as a way to roughly describe solipsism, it is a familiar term we can work with, but we have to keep in mind that it is not the exactly same sensation normally associated with the expression "dream".)

Solipsism: the world is yours

A solipsist does not try to define reality - he accepts it as his world. A solipsist can not be argued with, since everything you are telling him he believes he is more or less telling himself. You are, after all, just existing in his imagination. This does not, however, mean, that this LifeDream is always pleasant or that you can't influence it. It does not mean you should not / could not for example help a person in need or behave at all in a certain way. That is your way to take influence on your dream...Things do happen in this LifeDream, you can still help a needy person and feel good about something or experience pain.

Solipsism - a philosophical drug ?!

The facts above are not just strikingly logical but also have large consequences. One could argue that solipsism is a good excuse for arrogance. But this ignores the basic aim, no, wrong word, principle of solipsism. If at all it is a very subtle and hardly attackable nuance of arrogance as an unintended side effect of solipsism.

But it has great other potential. If you feel mistreated, your job is lousy, your relationship is a mess, people are annoying you all day, or a certain event or your life in general is a hassle - just remember, it is all yours, it is your dream, it all exists only in your imagination, your LifeDream; if it wasn't for you, none of it would exist. Solipsism is true solace, better than any drug.

But it is also a very dangerous idea. If one gets too indulged into it he might get carried away. If taken very serious and if you believe in it and think about it too much, the effects are just like other drugs.

Sure, there are many who disagree with the idea of solipsism, and they have good arguments, too. But even if one plays a little with the idea but generally rejects it he has to agree that in everyday life there can occur solipsistic everyday effects. Again and again you might ask yourself: what is wrong here?. ..am I the only sentient being here? Are these people really existing? Does anything really exist? Am I the only one to notice something?

#4 Solipsism

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 10:09 PM

thanks to every visitor of this page, you make me happy! :)

#5 vyntager

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 12:21 AM

Becoming God, as an end-point, for any limited being, such as a human, is equivalent to death. What is called God (with a capital G) is supposed to be infinite, omnipotent, and more importantly, omnipresent and omniscient. Starting from any limited being, you end being the same thing, that is, God, since there is only one way to be all those omni-things at the same time. Since you can't differentiate "God as the end-state" of the evolution of one being, compared to another, then it can be said that those beings lost themselves in the process.

Using solipsism as a solace is also pretty similar to using religion for the same ends. In the end, you're gambling on an unproven, and unprovable fact.

Who knows, maybe twenty years hence some of us will decide to retreat inside a simulation of their own, revelling in some virtual world where they'd be as gods. Maybe they'd even become uploads, and thus practically immortal inside the fortress of their supercomputer. Let's hope they won't forget that the plug lies still in the real world. Same thing for anyone who'd bet that God will save them, or any such escapism. Never forget that your plug may well lie in the physical universe, not in your fantasy nor in your control. Unless you try to do something about it. For real.

It didn't matter that base reality was petty and grey and mean and demeaning and quite empty of meaning compared to the glorious majesty of the multi-hued life you'd been living through metamathics; it didn't matter that base reality was of no consequence aesthetically, hedonistically, metamathically, intellectually and philosophically; if that was the single foundation-stone that all your higher-level comfort and joy rested upon, and it was kicked away from underneath you, you fell, and your limitless pleasure realms fell with you.

It was just like some ancient electricity-powered computer; it didn't matter how fast, error-free and tireless it was, it didn't matter how great a labour-saving boon it was, it didn't matter what it could do or how many different ways it could amaze; if you pulled its plug out, or just hit the Off button, all it became was a lump of matter; all its programs became just settings, dead instructions, and all its computations vanished as quickly as they'd moved.

It was, also, like the dependency of the human-basic brain on the human-basic body; no matter how intelligent, perceptive and gifted you were, no matter how entirely you lived for the ascetic rewards of the intellect and eschewed the material world and the ignobility of the flesh, if your heart just gave out…

That was the Dependency Principle; that you could never forget where your Off switches were located, even if it was somewhere tiresome.



#6 cyborgdreamer

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 01:39 AM

ARE YOU GOD? THINK STRONGLY ABOUT IT.


Well, I certainly wish I was :) .

Seriously though, if you're a solipsist who assumes that we don't exist, then why do you bother explaining solipsism to us?

#7 Solipsism

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 04:17 PM

you know first of all, maybe you are god and that you will die, a god can die. when you will die, everything will cease to exist, as before you were born. Same Same thing. Maybe solipsism cant be proved, it does not need to, that would make it perfect. Also I discuss with you guys about solipsism because it is part of my lucid dream. I wish to be able to proove that I am the only one that exist.

#8 Solipsism

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 06:21 PM

http://en.wikipedia....istic_solipsism

#9 Varkaus

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 12:11 AM

Wow, and I thought I saw it all.

#10 forever freedom

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 01:03 AM

Wow, and I thought I saw it all.


What's the matter? Hard for you to conceive of fantasies other than the one about your dear christian religion?

#11 Varkaus

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 03:07 AM

Wow, and I thought I saw it all.


What's the matter? Hard for you to conceive of fantasies other than the one about your dear christian religion?


What's the matter, hard to conjure up reality? Hard for you too comprehend that its insulting to assault other peoples faiths?

Edited by Varkaus, 19 August 2008 - 03:10 AM.


#12 Varkaus

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 03:09 AM

I don't care if you insult me on the issue of immortality, but don't assault my faith please.

#13 Varkaus

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 03:22 AM

So, um, why does everyone coincidenttaly conjure up the exact same world for thousands of years..... hmmm lets think about this.

How do people interact with each other if the universe is seemingly random? Obviously we are not spirits and we are quite alive.
We don't wander a dead spirit world, which would be your own conscience, as oppossed to another person's conscience. How is it all magically in one big rock, Earth?

What is this supposed to prove, anyway? We apparently don't have all the power that God has.

Edited by Varkaus, 19 August 2008 - 03:32 AM.


#14 Varkaus

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 02:21 PM

wrong post

Edited by Varkaus, 19 August 2008 - 02:29 PM.


#15 forever freedom

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 05:37 PM

Now don't get all pissy. kid. I won't argue with you because it's senseless and i don't want to waste my time arguing with religious people about their faiths; such discussions never get anywhere.

#16 Varkaus

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 07:29 PM

Alright whatever idc

Edited by Varkaus, 19 August 2008 - 07:30 PM.


#17 Solipsism

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:29 PM

you guys are not good with god. maybe like a nightmare, you dont get a good life and it suck, so you say you are not god. because god have all the power. but maybe god has not all the power and is very fragile. Also I write this because I want to become a better solipsist, I dont know presently why I write this however.

#18 Solipsism

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 02:21 AM

From the Principia Cybernetica Web :
"Solipsism is the theory that locates reality entirely in the mind of
the beholder. It specifically denies the existence of involuntary
experiences with an outside world be it through direct perception of
something or through vicarious experiences created in the process of
communication." (Source URL is...
http://pespmc1.vub.a...SOLIPSISM.html)


That was a pretty good definition! Wordy though. How about this
definition from "MCB 61 - Brain, Mind and Behavior
An introduction for non-scientists to functions of brains - 3 units
class from University of California at Berkeley:.


"Solipsism: the theory that a self knows only its constructs." (Source
URL is... http://sulcus.berkel...1sp96.lec1.html )


That was brief but, somehow, vague too. I prefered the one from the
Principia Cybernetica Web. But here's another brief one that is much
clearer (in ordinary English anyway). It is by Harry Erwin, a PhD
student in comp neurosci:


"Epistemological (not metaphysical!) solipsism holds that for the
individual the internal state is all that is directly observable."
(Source URL is...
http://www.ai.sri.co...list/0457.html).


That one said that there is more than one type of solipsism! Here is
another mention of "epistomological solipsism":


"Epistemological (the study or science of knowing/knowledge) solipsism
involves the idea that each individual "knows"/perceives the world in a
unique way, precisely because each person's
knowledge/apprehension/perception/awareness of the world is unique."
(Source URL... http://sulcus.berkel...1sp96.mt1.html)


Are there other types of solipsism? Well, from the resume of Steven
Davis (a Professor of Philosophy): his "Research Interests are
pragmatics, philosophy of language and theory of action and belief;
methodological solipsism as a research strategy for cognitive science;
nature of pragmatic phenomena and how they fit within cognitive
science." (Source URL... http://fas.sfu.ca/cs...ers/davis.html)


Here are some more:


"Right. The title of this page kind of makes it pointless for me to tell
you anything, as you are all figments of my imagination. And, as such,
you already have the access to all that I already know. But to whom, if
not themselves, are solipsists supposed to comment upon their skewed
world-views? Accordingly, I'll pretend that you are all real."
(http://www-ts.cs.obe...st/provost.html)


and


"They are all the same. Every one is an aspect of the one.
And the one is nothing. It can never be anything. It never
was anything. It is a nonentity. Imagination is all that
exists. Everything else is just a product of imagination.


"The world does not exist. Nothing exists. All of time is
just fictious. This moment exists. Nothing more, possibly
less. The past--your imagination. The present--you con-
ceived it. The future--you just believe it. Your eyes or
ears or fingers observing these words have been cleverly
dreamed up by you. Neither I nor this exits.


" Nothing can change, will change, is changing, has changed,
would change, once changed, changes, should change, short
changed. There is no way to change because only now and
less than now can or does exist."
(http://www.netusa.ne.../solipsism.html)

#19 Cyberbrain

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 02:36 AM

GOD is an AI who became so advanced that it survived the destruction of this universe and created another.

Issac Asimov The Last Question

#20 Cyberbrain

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 02:40 AM

Btw, Welcome to Imminst Solipsism!

From Wikipedia:

Solipsism: "My mind is the only thing that I know exists"

Comments:

1. What does Solipsism then have to do with being God :)
2. The statement is rhetorical if 'mind' and 'exists' is not defined :)

Edited by Kostas, 21 August 2008 - 03:03 AM.


#21 Cyberbrain

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 02:45 AM

Solipsism states that "reality" - e.g., the sky, air, colors, this computer screen, the people walking around - are just a projection of the mind that experiences it.

Exactly! But that is how reality is general defined: what the mind perceives with it's senses. "True Reality" if there is such a thing, can never be known. We could be living in a computer simulation, and so forth.

In the end it's all about relativism :)


Solipsism: the world is yours

If that's true and the world is derived from my mind, then my mind must either:

1. Unconsciously hate itself
2. Be at war with it self
3. Is trying to destroy itself

A solipsist does not try to define reality - he accepts it as his world.

But you already defined that reality is mind.

A solipsist can not be argued with.

I'll put that to the test :)

Since everything you are telling him he believes he is more or less telling himself. You are, after all, just existing in his imagination.

You mean to say "yours" not "his".

If this is true, then why am I only consciuos of certain peices of information?

Why must I explore my own mind through the elaborate illusion of a world in order to learn something rather than access information directly?

This also prompts the question of whether there are other separate consciousness's or intelligence's in my mind acting separate from my own will?

Then again is will an illusion like the world?

Also a couple more questions :)

How does the mind exist, and on what?
Why is my consciousness a slave of pain and pleasure (biology) if the world is part of my imagination?
Why is the world separate from my imagination if it derives from it?
Why does everything (meaning the mind) exist to begin with?
What's it's purpose?

Edited by Kostas, 21 August 2008 - 03:08 AM.


#22 cyborgdreamer

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 03:12 AM

If you're the only thing in that exists in the universe, then where do you suppose you came from?

#23 Solipsism

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 07:34 AM

If you're the only thing in that exists in the universe, then where do you suppose you came from?


well.. maybe you will get a little inspiration for that. like when google poped up in my mind, I cant describe why it did, but it came at my mind.

I suspect it's inspiration.

thanks to discuss with me, I am alone. For true, it is real, I came from nothing, I was born, nothing existed before me. I experienced that, and this is the reason why I fear the same happening in the future. I cannot explain why this reality exist, why nothing existed before me, I cant describe this, and that is why I have the fear of my death. If I can explain the after death world, like the before born world, then all will be ok.

Edited by Solipsism, 24 August 2008 - 07:38 AM.


#24 Solipsism

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 07:46 AM

I suggest we create a forum about solipsism, anybody is interested to risk his/her money for that? 91$ for 10 years for the domain name.

#25 AdamSummerfield

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 05:54 PM

Well the idea that we can never experience another person truly and that we are all confined to our own mental reality may one day be rendered a thing of the past with neural technology.

#26 cyborgdreamer

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 01:30 AM

Well the idea that we can never experience another person truly and that we are all confined to our own mental reality may one day be rendered a thing of the past with neural technology.


Could we still retain our individual identities if that happened? Or would we all become one merged consciousness?

#27 Solipsism

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 05:52 AM

I think the future of all religion is solipsism. I will beat the world with this. BEAT IT.



--The BEST Solipsist.

#28 AdamSummerfield

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 04:25 PM

Well the idea that we can never experience another person truly and that we are all confined to our own mental reality may one day be rendered a thing of the past with neural technology.


Could we still retain our individual identities if that happened? Or would we all become one merged consciousness?


You know that this question has no answer yet and you were clever to raise it. If we were assimilated in that way, then any consciousness, would have no way of knowing other minds without those other minds becoming itself, so perhaps even neural technology cannot answer this question.

#29 samantha

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 07:35 PM

Becoming God, as an end-point, for any limited being, such as a human, is equivalent to death. What is called God (with a capital G) is supposed to be infinite, omnipotent, and more importantly, omnipresent and omniscient. Starting from any limited being, you end being the same thing, that is, God, since there is only one way to be all those omni-things at the same time. Since you can't differentiate "God as the end-state" of the evolution of one being, compared to another, then it can be said that those beings lost themselves in the process.


If the universe is such that time travel is possible and/or such that universe equivalent "simulations" are posible then a sufficiently developed intelligence is very similar to God in the simulation at least. If the universe is closed under time travel such that the intelligence being can become complicit in its own becoming then it becomes effectively Alpha and Omega. Given near limitless intelligence, immortality and time travel it can quite effectively become omnipresent and omniscient. Omnipresence is also no big deal in a simulation or simply by spreading nanoprobes everywhere and positing instaneous communication.

But yes, the original being as known objectively and subjectively is not very relevant to even much more modest changes in capability.

#30 Solipsism

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 05:16 AM

But yes, the original being as known objectively and subjectively is not very relevant to even much more modest changes in capability.


The stuff to understand is that god might not be capable and might have no capability at all. This is not the question. And I push this discussion even more.. I push I push.. ;) I hope to make it the biggest thread in this religion channel. lol. Thanks for all your comments.

God is limited in its capability.




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