13 replies to this topic

[dumbdumb]

Hello!

I'm taking the basic noots (Piracetam, Choline CDP, DLPA) and various supplements, and frankly they're not doing enough for me.
I've noticed however, upon awakening in the middle of the night, that my mind seems to be positively racing with thoughts, ideas and impulses, making it very difficult to return to slumber - but I always do, and, upon waking, find this exciting condition to be lost to me. It has never happened upon waking in the morning after a full night's sleep, nor when I stay awake into the night, so I am fairly certain that it must have something to do with the activity of my brain during sleep, rather than during any given time of the night; that is, it is a function of neurochemistry in and of itself, rather than any other external factor upon it.

Does this indicate any possible particular deficiency of my "Waking brain?" Anything that I could tweak or supplement while awake, to regain a level of function and activity remotely similar to what I experience when awoken from deep sleep? GABA, perhaps?

Thanks for your ideas, take care.

[brokenportal]

This happens to me a lot too. Ill wake up in the middle of the night with ideas outside the box for problems racing around in my head, but in the morning they are gone. It usually comes back for a few hours in the evening and that is about it. I think it has something to do with the chemicals all building up in the right percentages of each other at those times, how like you say, do we help line our natural chemicals and brain cycles up with nootropics at will?

[REGIMEN]

Hello!

I'm taking the basic noots (Piracetam, Choline CDP, DLPA) and various supplements, and frankly they're not doing enough for me.
I've noticed however, upon awakening in the middle of the night, that my mind seems to be positively racing with thoughts, ideas and impulses, making it very difficult to return to slumber - but I always do, and, upon waking, find this exciting condition to be lost to me. It has never happened upon waking in the morning after a full night's sleep, nor when I stay awake into the night, so I am fairly certain that it must have something to do with the activity of my brain during sleep, rather than during any given time of the night; that is, it is a function of neurochemistry in and of itself, rather than any other external factor upon it.

Does this indicate any possible particular deficiency of my "Waking brain?" Anything that I could tweak or supplement while awake, to regain a level of function and activity remotely similar to what I experience when awoken from deep sleep? GABA, perhaps?

Thanks for your ideas, take care.

Your supplements are overtaxing your Liver and creating mucus and Heat buildup. Your symptoms are common in people with stress, insomnia, alcoholism, drug-abuse, and other Liver issues. I should know since I used to tweak on nootropics and vitamins for two years (~$2000 on the shit) and I'm still getting over the worst of it with returning bouts of insomnia and hyperthyroidism.

Here's a link for a graphic that shows what times each organ system is most active.
http://upload.wikime...iurnalCycle.jpg
Overlay the times you wake up. Probably between 9pm and 3am is when I would have the strongest bouts of these issues. Cut stimulants after 3pm since that is the hinge-point of waking consciousness into resting consciousness.

My recommendation is quit the overpriced chemicals and follow through my posts to get a hint of what's to come.

Edited by liplex, 02 September 2008 - 10:48 PM.

[dumbdumb]

Thank you for replying, Liplex, but I don't really understand what you're telling me, nor do I understand how you could confidently conclude that my supplements are harming me solely because, in the middle of the night upon waking, I seem to have periods where I can think particularly clearly and with marked rapidity. Are you saying that no-one should take any nootropics or vitamins?

[bgwithadd]

If you have a lot of trouble waking up each morning and wake up more the later int he day it gets, it could be simple lithium deficiency

[nancy_axel]

Hello!

I'm taking the basic noots (Piracetam, Choline CDP, DLPA) and various supplements, and frankly they're not doing enough for me.
I've noticed however, upon awakening in the middle of the night, that my mind seems to be positively racing with thoughts, ideas and impulses, making it very difficult to return to slumber - but I always do, and, upon waking, find this exciting condition to be lost to me. It has never happened upon waking in the morning after a full night's sleep, nor when I stay awake into the night, so I am fairly certain that it must have something to do with the activity of my brain during sleep, rather than during any given time of the night; that is, it is a function of neurochemistry in and of itself, rather than any other external factor upon it.

Does this indicate any possible particular deficiency of my "Waking brain?" Anything that I could tweak or supplement while awake, to regain a level of function and activity remotely similar to what I experience when awoken from deep sleep? GABA, perhaps?

Thanks for your ideas, take care.

I totally agree! It seems to happen a lot with ALCAR and the 'racetams (oxi,pram,pira) & choline. I get profoundly vivid images that seem so real -- seems to be realer than reality especially after waking up from a 20 minute nap. The effect lasts for 1 minute after waking ..

[Obsidius]

This is one of the reasons I always keep a voice recorder along with pen & paper next to my bed. It lets me capture all the great ideas I have in dreams or right upon waking, and the occasional mumblings of my half-awake self can be quite entertaining as well.

[REGIMEN]

Thank you for replying, Liplex, but I don't really understand what you're telling me, nor do I understand how you could confidently conclude that my supplements are harming me solely because, in the middle of the night upon waking, I seem to have periods where I can think particularly clearly and with marked rapidity. Are you saying that no-one should take any nootropics or vitamins?

Waking up too early is a symptom. This combined with high-octane racing thoughts in the middle of the night is another symptom.

Symptoms are not generally positive and are signs of a systemic imbalance.

Also, if that time in the middle of the night is the only time you have such clear thinking then you have an issue. That time in the middle of the night (11pm-3am) is when the Liver/Gallbladder is at its most active which would explain your increased mental activity incurred by Excess from diet or supplements. Self-prescribed supplements work best for people without health imbalances. Imbalance accrues into disease.

Choline is better had from food sources or spread out in smaller doses. You don't need the whitewater surge of high doses to gain justifiable benefits. Less can be better.

Other than that all I can say is I went a lot further down that rabbit hole and it wasn't pretty. You are experiencing the mild pre-shocks. Vitamins and supps are probably not the best thing for you and I can only say this to people in this thread willing to state that they have this particular symptom. I am not preaching to everyone...just the early-wakers woken by brain hyperactivity. At night "energy" descends in the body...away from the head; if that is when your brain is most active you have a problem.

But who knows...."I don't know you".

Edited by liplex, 03 September 2008 - 07:29 PM.

[dumbdumb]

Well, my awakening in the night has nothing to do with my supplements. For about 7 years now I have awoken between three and six times nightly with an urgent need to urinate (and during the day need to go once every two hours at least.) No doctor I've ever been to has managed to do anything to help - they keep prescribing pills that don't do anything, so I stop taking them and have stopped seeing doctors about it. Anyway, I digress...
It might be only in the middle of the night that I'm thinking particularly clearly, but I think more clearly during the day than I did before I started taking supplements, so I'm not about to give them up; there's no winning in this situation.
I must say though that I think there must be better explanations for racing thoughts and dissociative thinking than one's liver being hyperactive. There must be something related to REM sleep that is being provoked while I slumber and that is lingering when I awaken - I just wish someone here knew more about that sort of thing, but it appears I'm out of luck.

[bgwithadd]

Well, I said it in a kidding manner, but that is common for people with mood disorders. Especially if you have trouble getting up in the morning.

[REGIMEN]

Well, my awakening in the night has nothing to do with my supplements. For about 7 years now I have awoken between three and six times nightly with an urgent need to urinate (and during the day need to go once every two hours at least.) No doctor I've ever been to has managed to do anything to help - they keep prescribing pills that don't do anything, so I stop taking them and have stopped seeing doctors about it. Anyway, I digress...
It might be only in the middle of the night that I'm thinking particularly clearly, but I think more clearly during the day than I did before I started taking supplements, so I'm not about to give them up; there's no winning in this situation.
I must say though that I think there must be better explanations for racing thoughts and dissociative thinking than one's liver being hyperactive. There must be something related to REM sleep that is being provoked while I slumber and that is lingering when I awaken - I just wish someone here knew more about that sort of thing, but it appears I'm out of luck.

There is more info available at the link which shows the different types of urine related to particular types of imbalance.
http://www.shen-nong...exam_urine.html

"Urinary Frequency

This refers to an increase in the frequency of urination; the amount of urine may be normal or increased.

* Frequent urination with a large amount of clear urine is due to kidney qi failing to consolidate urine in the bladder.
* Frequent urination, urgency with a small amount of deep-yellow urine or even with bloody or painful urination is due to damp-heat in the bladder.
* An increase in nocturnal (night) urination with clear urine is seen in late stage kidney disease or aged people where the kidney-yang fails to control the urine excretion."

"Volume of Urine

* Profuse, clear urine and polyuria (excessive passage of urine) at night are due to insufficiency of kidney yang.
* Diabetes is a disease characterized by excessive thirst and polyuria.
* Scanty, yellow urine can be caused by excessive heat, over sweating, vomiting and diarrhea due to the over consumption of body fluids.
* Scanty urine accompanied with edema (general swelling) can be seen in yang deficiency of the lungs, spleen or kidneys; because, the organs are unable to vaporize body fluids and cause water-dampness retention."

++++++++++++
http://www.mybodywis..._Kidney_Yin.pdf

Edited by liplex, 05 September 2008 - 03:43 AM.

[REGIMEN]

Well, my awakening in the night has nothing to do with my supplements. For about 7 years now I have awoken between three and six times nightly with an urgent need to urinate (and during the day need to go once every two hours at least.) No doctor I've ever been to has managed to do anything to help - they keep prescribing pills that don't do anything, so I stop taking them and have stopped seeing doctors about it. Anyway, I digress...
It might be only in the middle of the night that I'm thinking particularly clearly, but I think more clearly during the day than I did before I started taking supplements, so I'm not about to give them up; there's no winning in this situation.
I must say though that I think there must be better explanations for racing thoughts and dissociative thinking than one's liver being hyperactive. There must be something related to REM sleep that is being provoked while I slumber and that is lingering when I awaken - I just wish someone here knew more about that sort of thing, but it appears I'm out of luck.

If you go to my profile you'll see a link for a Wiki on Wu Xing and a JPG of the five-node cycle that is the Five Element theory which is one of the fundamental principles in some of the more prevalent modes of Chinese Medicine. On to the graphic. You'll see that Water creates Wood. That in essense means that whatever goes on in your Kidney meridian then feeds/initiates/enables functions of the Liver meridian. If your Kidney meridian is Deficient in whatever manner it is it cannot fully nourish the Liver meridian. In general the concept of Yin covers a balancing counterpart to Yang which is more akin to fluids to Yang's calorie-expenditure(these are summations of these concepts for use in this example). So it Liver Yin is Deficient then it may be because there is a Deficiency upstream (Kidney meridian). Sooner or later that Deficiency is going to lead to a case of Heart Yin Deficiency and you will be on your way to many further unpleasantries. That's just one possibility. I don't mean to scare you but you were the one that informed me you've had this very serious issue for 7 whole years. If you've given up on all your prior doctors give these ones a try because it was the old ones whose practice of medicine is based on concepts like REM sleep.

You are not out of luck.

[cyborgdreamer]

What happens if you stay awake while you're feeling that way? Does it work after you take naps?

[REGIMEN]

TCM and Sleep:

There are six links at this one link:

http://www.shen-nong...role_sleep.html


The quick version is here:

http://www.tcmpage.com/hpinsomnia.html

This one goes through good descriptions of why one wakes up too early, has dream disturbed sleep, wakes up easily, wakes up at the same time every night, and their related emotional manifestations during the day.

Edited by REGIMEN, 08 September 2008 - 03:49 AM.