20 replies to this topic

[Cassox]

Hi,
I feel a need exists for a wiki style section listing supplements according to pharmocological organization (i.e. Expected Organismal Effects, Precise Mechanism of action, elimination route, side effects, potential toxicity) and including dosage, aproximate pricing etc.
I think its important to really have a basic understanding of each nootropic. I've noticed in stacks that people list, they often make mistakes, such as stacking up loads of acetylcholine choline promoters and esterase inhibitors, but don't take anything for any other neurotransmitter. Or they don't even have any cholines, or are taking compounds that inactivate each other. Did you know that vitamin C, and nearly any fluid with a ph lower than 4 effectively inactivates ritalin? I did'nt until I started reading journals! Now heres the issue: I started working on/ organizing one on the mentat wiki (http://www.ludism.org/mentat/SmartDrug), but its very glitchy AND most importantly, it was a one man job. Theres not too much traffic, and people who could provide valuable information on these compounds are at ImmInst. So, what can i do?
I am offering to do alot of the foot work and editing, however I would like people to essentially double check what I put up. I am a biology student, working on my RN, and am competent at researching journals and literature from ebscohost and medline. What I am not, is neuro-pharm md, so it would be nice to have helpful criticism if I overlook anything. Also, of course space somewhere online would be nice. Anyone interested in helping? Also, If anyone has questions in terms of physiology, I teach basic phys to pre-nursing students with an emphasis on the CNS. Once again, I don't have my masters so thats my disclaimer, but I would like to have something to colab on to help the ImmInst project.

Edited by Mind, 01 February 2009 - 07:32 PM.

[M.speciosa]

This is a good idea, and would be very nice to have around. I wish I could help, but I have very little time as it is. FYI: Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) and acids in general make lower a lot of chemicals absorbtion in the body...Such as many Opiates and Stimulants (Amphetamines especially). If I decide to take one of those, I always make sure to take an antacid such as Tums, or even better, Cimetadine (Tagamet). Cimetadine increases blood levels of many drugs, significantly. White Grapefruit Juice (only the white kind) has the same method of action an Cimetadine, but to a much lesser extent. Sorry if that was a little bit off-topic!

[spacey]

I promise that I will do my best to help you with this if you get MediaWiki instead, the current system is very bad.

[edward]

Good luck, I've tried to get interest in such things before . We and I include myself in this are lazy

Edited by edward, 03 October 2008 - 03:08 AM.

[Mind]

Many people have wanted a better wiki of Imminst information and we are getting started on this but we could use a lot more participation. Caliban and Mondey have gotten a good start on a supplements section. I have tried my best to get a Lifestyle wiki section up and running. Please consider contributing to this community project. Director candidate Zoolander has as part of his platform an idea to use our nutrition/diet/lifestyle information to help many groups within society live healthy and disease free. Getting the information collected in the wiki is the best place to start. Given the passion of the members here, I think we should have the number one most semantically constructed supplement/nutrition wiki on the Net.

Everyone can put forth ideas and content, but due to past vandalism, only members can edit the wiki. If there is enough commitment from registered users, then perhaps we can open it up a bit more.

[Zans Mihejevs]

Looks like a great idea - I might be interested in participating myself.

Anyone interested in joining me to tackle the nutrition sections?

[modelcadet]

Why don't we all just start contributing to the ImmInst wiki about all the crazy stuff we blather about? Make entries for nutrition, nootropics, and nebulous gray goo.

On a completely unrelated note, I cannot wait to eat stem cell grown steak. Meat is delicious, especially when it's eco-friendly, humane, and engineered to ultimate scrumptiousness.

[Just to connect the two nodes for Nova or Novamente down the road]

Edited by modelcadet, 04 February 2009 - 03:43 PM.

[Zans Mihejevs]

On a completely unrelated note, I cannot wait to eat stem cell grown steak. Meat is delicious, especially when it's eco-friendly, humane, and engineered to ultimate scrumptiousness.

I can't wait for stem cell grown salmon. Nutritious, lots of protein and none of the heavy metal poisoning!

[brokenportal]

Please do add to this wiki. Ive long hoped to find a place where I can view everybodies recommended lists of supplements and nootropics. This is an awsome idea. Im sure I speak for a lot of people when I say that I will probably be checking this page every day, at least for a while, when it gets going, especially if people start putting in their main recommended lists.



http://www.imminst.o...php/Supplements

[m86]

An installation of Semantic MediaWiki would be a good idea, IMO... presuming there are no major conflicts with IpbWiki (or anything else).

[brokenportal]

An installation of Semantic MediaWiki would be a good idea, IMO... presuming there are no major conflicts with IpbWiki (or anything else).

What exactly is that? Is that a possible upgrade for the wiki we have installed here?

[m86]

An installation of Semantic MediaWiki would be a good idea, IMO... presuming there are no major conflicts with IpbWiki (or anything else).

What exactly is that? Is that a possible upgrade for the wiki we have installed here?

probably worth reading the docs+intro on the Semantic MediaWiki website for a fuller view of the plugin, but it basically just allows the embedding of triples (ex. Polygonum cuspidatum contains [resveratrol, min. amount, max. amount]) into MediaWiki articles as well as usage of a semantic query (which is also usable from within articles, allowing for dynamic pages with semantic query derived information). it would be considerably more flexible than the simplistic category structuring of MediaWiki.

it is possible to upgrade a standard mediawiki install with no problems.. but again, IpbWiki could potentially conflict with the plugin (and does, going by what some guy said in 2007 via. google).

[brokenportal]

I will ask around about the mediawiki. I think that is the upgrade that wasnt jiving throught the imminst forums bridge but Im not sure. Please ask about it in the chat room too. Especially during the brainstorming meetings. The chat link and schedule is here: imminst.org/meetings Although there is life extension discussion in there most all the time.

Can somebody write this topic up in the positive, advertising the supps wiki section that has been started? I recommend putting it in the projects section. Either that or direct me to one, I thought there was one but I cant find it.

Ive been directing people to this one, but it could really use its own official topic explaining and linking to it right off the bat.

[beatsme]

With regards to this wiki:
http://www.imminst.o...php/Supplements
I would be helping out, but I cannot edit any pages after logging in

[Cassox]

Same as above; I have'nt been able to modify pages. I'm going to try to attend one of the chat brainstorms and bring up the topic.
What I am thinking though, is that each supplement/drug should have a simple grid with all the basic info. Then below that should be sections addressing the following topics:
Pharmocodynamics, pharmocokinetics, pharmocogenetics, routes of administration, absorption, distribution, excretion, and detoxification. There should most definitely be a contraindication, side effects, etc. section. The basics section could have dosage, and purported effects. Rather than including all the links to studies in the dialog info section, there should be something akin to a works cited at the bottom. It could be numbered so referencing the studies is easy. Also, there should be some form of peer review involved. Now, I'm just finishing up a degree in nursing so saying "peer review" is not exactly what I mean. I don't neccesarilly beleive that one has to be a pharmocologist/md. to write said sections and do literature review. I do think there needs to be some controls. I've seen people try to do stuff like this before that had totally unsupported claims like: "vitamin C will increase your critical thinking ability." I think changes need to be reviewed. Dosage is another issue. Perhaps we could list a few dosage selections with regards to what study used what dose. Another item that should be addressed is a disclaimer. It needs to be stated that imminst is in no way advising, treating illness, responsible for anything in the wiki. Any self administration of anything is entirely on the takers head.

Ummmm..... Also, a link to a forum post regarding the nootropic/sup would be nice.

Can anyone think of anything I've missed?

Also! It would be nice to be able to organize the list of supps in different ways. I don't know how hard it would be, but it sure would be nice to be able to say, list all supps that increase acetylcholine levels. Or, alternatively organize according to type such as neurotransmitter precursor, cns stimulant, etc. If we have to choose one way to organize..... what do you think would be best? An alphabetical list is horrible. One might as well buy a pdr if thats all its going to be.

[yoyo]

this would be a great thing. it would be great if there were a way to have a poll-type information input, so when you go look at the page for huperzine, you can see what the common expereicnes of people who take it are. first person accounts are helpful along side the physicology side of things.

[yoyo]

i think one problem is people don't think abotu the wiki while posting: they stay two separate things.

i think one way to just get some info on the page would be that ask whenever someone starts a thread on a supp, to at least copy/paste the most useful posts to the wiki. once some info is there, then there is more incentive for someone to clean it up a bit, and the pedants to start editing with links to studies that support their view, etc.


is there a way create autolinks, so if someone makes a post that says "which is better, piracetam or aniracetam" it link those articles automatically? i have no useful knowlege of coding/scripting languages but if tighter integration of forum & wiki existed it would improve the wiki and also make posting better as lots of the redundant stuff wouldn't be necessary. i'm imaging when you open a thread, it is usually a thread about the wiki, for instance 'hey lets discuss this new AGE study, should we change the AGE page?"

[brokenportal]

Good idea. We'll get you guys access, and then check to see if you can conduct a poll in the wiki. If you cant, then create the poll in the forums here and link it to its corresponding spot in the wiki.

If your willing to put in a little time each week then pm Mind and request access to the wiki.

[brokenportal]

Again, that section is here:

http://www.imminst.o...php/Supplements

Once a few people latch on to this idea it will probably really take off.

[m86]

just fyi..

if you don't feel like or are too lazy to get write permission, feel free to toss any junk you might want to add to the imminst wiki here (or any free wiki provider, there are a bunch out there... referata is decent) and I'll copy the data over, providing that data is not terrible.

[bgwithadd]

I was going to say maybe use wikipedia, but this might give better results. It would be nice to come up with a sort of standardized format.

Such as:

description

uses and rationale for uses

evidence


All categorized of course.