38 replies to this topic

[ajnast4r]

after about a few months of fatigue & some recent joint pain i went to the doc... turns out i have mono again. first time was REALLY bad when i was around 16 (im 27 now)...

anything i can do supplement wise, other than the standard rest + water?

bloodwork was as follows"

EBV CAPSID Ag.Ab.IgM 0.26
EBV CAPSID Ag.Ab/IgG ................. 4.02 HIGH

EBNA Ab/IgG ......................................6.03 HIGH
EBNA Ab/IgM ......................................0.94 HIGH
EBV EARLY Ag.Ab 0.66

Edited by ajnast4r, 02 September 2008 - 11:17 PM.

[mitkat]

Sorry to hear it, bro. Last year of high school I had to drop out of first semester and ended up hospitalised for 3 days due to dehydration and didn't eat for a week from mono.. I'm not sure what you can do except look into immunity boosting supps, maybe splurge on some new chapter mushroom complex, and even though you aren't huge on dairy, lactoferrin might be something to consider for the time being. That's all I can think off the top of my head. Get better

after about a few months of fatigue & some recent joint pain i went to the doc... turns out i have mono again. first time was REALLY bad when i was around 16 (im 27 now)...

anything i can do supplement wise, other than the standard rest + water?

bloodwork was as follows"

EBV CAPSID Ag.Ab.IgM 0.26
EBV CAPSID Ag.Ab/IgG ................. 4.02 HIGH

EBNA Ab/IgG ......................................6.03 HIGH
EBNA Ab/IgM ......................................0.94 HIGH
EBV EARLY Ag.Ab 0.66

[CobaltThoriumG]

after about a few months of fatigue & some recent joint pain i went to the doc... turns out i have mono again. first time was REALLY bad when i was around 16 (im 27 now)...anything i can do supplement wise, other than the standard rest + water?bloodwork was as follows"EBV CAPSID Ag.Ab.IgM 0.26EBV CAPSID Ag.Ab/IgG ................. 4.02 HIGHEBNA Ab/IgG ......................................6.03 HIGHEBNA Ab/IgM ......................................0.94 HIGHEBV EARLY Ag.Ab 0.66

I'm just coming off of my first (to my knowledge) bout of mono at 33. I can't say I found anything that I think has made me get better faster other than sleeping more and staying hydrated. But I have been using a lot of the LEF whey with lactoferrin for the past week. For my test, through LEF, EBV IgG was 555 Au/mL and everything else was negative, so I think I'm not quite over it yet. My bilirubin went to 2.5 times high normal and I still don't know if it is because of mono or something else, perhaps Gilbert's Syndrome. Other liver function tests are normal.

Edited by CobaltThoriumG, 03 September 2008 - 03:55 AM.

[ajnast4r]

I'm just coming off of my first (to my knowledge) bout of mono at 33. I can't say I found anything that I think has made me get better faster other than sleeping more and staying hydrated. But I have been using a lot of the LEF whey with lactoferrin for the past week. For my test, through LEF, EBV IgG was 555 Au/mL and everything else was negative, so I think I'm not quite over it yet. My bilirubin went to 2.5 times high normal and I still don't know if it is because of mono or something else, perhaps Gilbert's Syndrome. Other liver function tests are normal.

my cmp came back normal... liver & kidney function was perfect. wbc was on the lower end of the reference range, but still normal.

weirdness

Edited by ajnast4r, 03 September 2008 - 03:53 AM.

[CobaltThoriumG]

Looking at your test reuslts, I don't see why they wouldn't be consistent with a past infection as opposed to a reactivated infection, just going by a couple sites: link, link.

Edited by CobaltThoriumG, 03 September 2008 - 03:56 AM.

[ajnast4r]

Looking at your test reuslts, I don't see why they wouldn't be consistent with a past infection as opposed to a reactivated infection, just going by a couple sites: <a href="<A href='http://www.rcpamanua...i=115">link</a>, <a href="<A href='http://www.clinlabna...html">link</a>.

early AG was neg, & accoring to my test it should only be negative during complete lack of infection, current infection or reactivation. i have near constant fatigue, and some other symptom that would be consistent with reactivation. they are gonna draw some more blood thurs and ill get a chance to sit down with my doctor. i only spoke to the nurse today and she insisted i have 'mono' despite my looking over & questioning the blood work.

*edit*

Edited by ajnast4r, 03 September 2008 - 04:23 AM.

[ajnast4r]

mono seems to be a big mystery? the only credible recommendation i could find anywhere was astragalus from dr weil. i plan on taking 2 caps 2x per day of natures answer astragalus extract (250mg std astragalus @ 0.3% astragalosides + 250mg astragalus root powder) which totals about 3mg per day astragalosides.

[Mixter]

almost everyone has (had) mono, and being a herpes-like virus,
it increases chronic fatigue and cancer risk significantly... if you're
in an active (reactivated) infection, urgently add antivirals, like:

high-dose zinc (for up to 10 days)
green tea extract
resveratrol extract
garlic
DHEA

Fore more antivirals, see: http://www.lef.org/p...nfluenza_02.htm

And use anti-inflammatories. as long as you feel the infection,
you should be on NSAIDs like Ibuprofen, to mitigate any damage
caused by excess inflammation from the virus -- even more so
if you have an active and intact immune system.

There are too much indications to chronic fatigue links to mono,
and fatigue up to a month or more after mono infection is common
and well-known. So as far as I've once researched it, fatigue is also
due to inflammation damage to nerves and myelin, and in some people,
this doesn't recover 100%. Hence, make sure to protect against excess
inflammation during mononucleosis and use antivirals to minimize the duration.

Edited by mixter, 05 September 2008 - 06:16 PM.

[ajnast4r]

Do you have any refrenses showing nsaids are helpful during viral infection? As far as I know the immune response to viral infection is an inflammitory response...wouldn't suppressing that be counter productive?

almost everyone has (had) mono, and being a herpes-like virus,
it increases chronic fatigue and cancer risk significantly... if you're
in an active (reactivated) infection, urgently add antivirals, like:

high-dose zinc (for up to 10 days)
green tea extract
resveratrol extract
garlic
DHEA

Fore more antivirals, see: http://www.lef.org/p...nfluenza_02.htm

And use anti-inflammatories. as long as you feel the infection,
you should be on NSAIDs like Ibuprofen, to mitigate any damage
caused by excess inflammation from the virus -- even more so
if you have an active and intact immune system.

There are too much indications to chronic fatigue links to mono,
and fatigue up to a month or more after mono infection is common
and well-known. So as far as I've once researched it, fatigue is also
due to inflammation damage to nerves and myelin, and in some people,
this doesn't recover 100%. Hence, make sure to protect against excess
inflammation during mononucleosis and use antivirals to minimize the duration.

[ajnast4r]

added herb-pharm super echinacea a few days ago, and it make a HUGE difference in how i feel... helped with the fatigue A LOT.

added sambucol lozenges today, i will report back on how that works in a week.

[ajnast4r]

herb-pharm super echinacea helped a lot with fatigue
natures plus oliceutic olive leaf extract helped with everything
gaia herbs turmeric supreme worked -excellent- for inflammation.. much better than otc nsaids

Edited by ajnast4r, 08 December 2008 - 08:18 AM.

[rwac]

herb-pharm super echinacea helped a lot with fatigue
natures plus oliceutic olive leaf extract helped with everything
gaia herbs turmeric supreme worked -excellent- for inflammation.. much better than otc nsaids

I'm curious. Did the astragalus do anything at all ?

[ajnast4r]

I'm curious. Did the astragalus do anything at all ?

hard to say... it didn't make a perceptible difference, but that doesn't mean it didn't do anything. it was cheap and didn't hurt me i would have used this product if i had it to do over again...

i believe herb-pharm immune defense tonic also kept me from getting sick a few times when i should have.

SHI adapt 232 helped with fatigue as well

[rwac]

I'm curious. Did the astragalus do anything at all ?

hard to say... it didn't make a perceptible difference, but that doesn't mean it didn't do anything. it was cheap and didn't hurt me i would have used this product if i had it to do over again...

i believe herb-pharm immune defense tonic also kept me from getting sick a few times when i should have.

SHI adapt 232 helped with fatigue as well

Well, thanks a bunch for the After Action Report.
I hope you're all better now.

[FunkOdyssey]

Have you recovered? Did your WBC recover from the low end of the range? Are fatigue and joint pain completely resolved? I have my own suspicions whenever fatigue and joint pain are mentioned in the same breath (you know where I'm going with this), and joint pain is not a typical symptom of mono.

[ajnast4r]

Have you recovered? Did your WBC recover from the low end of the range? Are fatigue and joint pain completely resolved? I have my own suspicions whenever fatigue and joint pain are mentioned in the same breath (you know where I'm going with this), and joint pain is not a typical symptom of mono.

i would say im 80-85% recovered... its been 4 months since my diagnosis. 5 months since symptoms began.

fatigue is much better but not totally resolved... joint paint is not resolved but reduced drastically since starting turmeric. I don't have joint pain per say, what i believe is happening is that the inflammation levels through my entire body occasionally go through the roof because of the mono... which leads to pain in my problem areas, usually old workout injuries(knees, a few knuckles, my lower back)... there is never any NEW areas of pain, just flare ups in old areas

i do know where youre going with this and lyme was originally what i suspected but i tested negative. i had some issues with work where my health insurance was dropped, so i haven't been able to get back in to get more blood work done. i got it all squared away and got my insurance back, so as soon as i get the card in the mail im going to get more bookwork done... see where my antibodies are, wbc count & another western blot.

[cyborgdreamer]

I don't know what would help once you have mono, but there are ways to avoid getting it in the future. Mono is spread via saliva, so you should avoid sharing beverages with people, eating from the same fork or spoon as another person, eating food that someone else has bitten, or letting people double-dip in sauses you eat. Also, make sure that anyone you kiss follows the same rules (for their health as well as yours).

[ajnast4r]

I don't know what would help once you have mono, but there are ways to avoid getting it in the future. Mono is spread via saliva, so you should avoid sharing beverages with people, eating from the same fork or spoon as another person, eating food that someone else has bitten, or letting people double-dip in sauses you eat. Also, make sure that anyone you kiss follows the same rules (for their health as well as yours).

im not sure if youre talking about me avoiding getting it again or me avoiding giving it to someone...

as far as giving it... mono is only contagious during and around the fever stage of the illness.

as far as getting it again... once you're infected with the epstein-barr virus (which causes mono) you're infected for life. ive seen estimations of 80-95% of adults are infected with epstein-barr. i cant 'catch' mono again... my current mono infection is a reactivation of the virus that i was infected with nearly 10 years ago... most likely from immunosuppression from celiac disease.

Edited by ajnast4r, 09 December 2008 - 02:08 AM.

[cyborgdreamer]

as far as getting it again... once you're infected with the epstein-barr virus (which causes mono) you're infected for life. ive seen estimations of 80-95% of adults are infected with epstein-barr. i cant 'catch' mono again... my current mono infection is a reactivation of the virus that i was infected with nearly 10 years ago... most likely from immunosuppression from celiac disease.

Wow, that's horrible! Sorry, I didn't know that.

[Lufega]

I wonder if using Lysine can keep the viral replication at bay like it does for the herpes simplex virus? I also have Epstein Barr so this is an issue that concerns me. In the last two year I had two reactivations but I never confirmed these with blood tests. I've also become more sensitive to parasites lately. I'm studying in the Dominican Republic right now and have had Amebiasis twice in the last year. (Th2 dominance??)

Found this:

Zinc Acetate Lozenges and Mononucleosis
Continuous use of zinc acetate lozenges while awake as treatment for severe tonsillitis caused by Epstein Barr virus as mononucleosis in a 17-year old girl produced rapid (a) reduction in oral and nasopharyngeal inflammation; (b) elimination of bilateral shaggy gray tonsillar exudate; © elimination of fever; (d) improvement in patient's feeling of well-being; (e) elimination of supraorbital edema; (f) elimination of malaise, and fatigue; (g) return to normal vocalization; (h) elimination of anorexia; and (i) atrophy of extremely swollen tonsils to less than normal size. All benefits occurred within 1 to 3 days of treatment initiation.

After the first lozenge, the patient resolutely and continuously used zinc acetate lozenge treatment, refusing codeine, ibuprofen, and lidocaine. Corticosteriods for severe airway obstruction were not given in preference to the beneficial effects reported from zinc acetate lozenges. Antibiotic for concurrent strep throat was continued for the normal course. Splenomegaly, lymphadenophy, hepatomegaly and other complications did not occur. No side effects to treatment nor recurrence of diseases occurred. The patient was able to return to school on the fourth day after diagnosis (which occurred on the 4th day of illness) and was sufficiently well to resume athletic activities on the fourteenth day after diagnosis. This anecdote should stimulate others to investigate the antiviral properties of Zn2+ ion from zinc acetate solutions (1 to 5mmol) against Epstein Barr virus and to conduct clinical trials of the effects of zinc acetate lozenges in treatment of mononucleosis.

Because zinc acetate releases Zn2+ ions at physiological pH which are antiviral to several herpes simplex viruses (see Chapter 2 from Handbook for Curing the Common Cold - The Zinc Lozenge Story), Zn2+ ions also may be antiviral to the Epstein Barr virus, another member of the herpes family. However a thorough literature search revealed no evidence of anti-Epstein-Barr activity by Zn2+ ions in 1994.

If Zn2+ ions are antiviral to Epstein-Barr viruses, zinc acetate lozenge treatment of mononucleosis might prevent Burkitt's lymphoma. Burkitt's lymphoma is associated with Epstein-Barr virus in Africa, Turkey, and other locations where dietary zinc is often inadequate, but rarely in countries such as the United States where zinc nutrition is normally adequate. As Burkitt's lymphoma is a serious and difficult-to-treat disease, immediate investigation of the effects of zinc acetate lozenges in preventing Burkitt's lymphoma through treatment of mononucleosis is warranted. Of related interest, Ananda S. Prasad, MD, and others have shown that head and neck cancer patients with the highest zinc serum concentration have the best recovery.

http://george-eby-research.com/html/

Edited by Lufega, 09 December 2008 - 06:59 AM.

[ajnast4r]

Wow, that's horrible! Sorry, I didn't know that.

thanks but really its not a big deal... its not cancer. its not a life-threatening or disabling disease... technically I'm pretty lucky

I wonder if using Lysine can keep the viral replication at bay like it does for the herpes simplex virus? I also have Epstein Barr so this is an issue that concerns me. In the last two year I had two reactivations but I never confirmed these with blood tests. I've also become more sensitive to parasites lately. I'm studying in the Dominican Republic right now and have had Amebiasis twice in the last year. (Th2 dominance??)

if you're having that many reactivations you're most likely experiencing immunosuppression from some place... i would take a -critical- look at your eating & supplementation habits, your sleep habits, and your exercise habits and figure out where the problem is. you do NOT want the EBV to be reactivating over and over as this can lead to a lot of very serious problems later in life. get with a good doctor, get regular blood work and get those antibodies down.

if you need help with supplementation/diet/whatever, just let me know.

Zinc Acetate Lozenges and Mononucleosis

ive taken cold-eeze, which releases zinc ions the same way zinc acetate does, for quite a while now... works well, especially if my throat is sore.

Edited by ajnast4r, 09 December 2008 - 08:20 AM.

[ajnast4r]

9 months post diagnosis.

i believe pycnogenol has had a miraculous effect on my energy levels.

[nameless]

Interesting about the pycnogenol...

Not sure if you have tried this (or if it's even works), but my doctor recently mentioned B-12 shots can help for those with high EBV antibodies + fatigue. I have a feeling he plans to stab me with a shot during my next visit.

[tham]

Selenium as sodium selenite.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

[Lufega]

9 months post diagnosis.

i believe pycnogenol has had a miraculous effect on my energy levels.

I'm spending a lot of time and effort chasing down a diagnosis but in the back of my mind, Chronic EBV is probably the most likely culprit of all my problems.

How have you dosed the pycnogenol for the last 9 months? What turned you to it in the first place???

[ajnast4r]

Have you been tested? What are your antibody numbers?

I actually am taking the pycnogenol for allergy related asthma... I just noticed that after a few days of 200mg my energy levels and mood went though the roof. I mean a miraculous increase...

I can't for sure attribute it to the pycnogenol because I made a few other changes(stopped using caffeine and st Johns wort, started using an albuterol inhailer)... But the pycnogenol is the most likely suspect, since caffeine and sjw cessation have exacerbated my fatigue in the past, and I only use one puff per day of the albuterol.

[nameless]

Using albuterol daily isn't that great really. If you just need it several times weekly, it means your asthma is not properly controlled.

Hopefully the pycnogenol will improve your asthma enough so you can stop the albuterol entirely. Singulair or an inhaled corticosteroid may be better options. I have found that Allegra helps my asthma a little too.

Is there any significance to raised EBV antibodies (without active mono)? I read that like 95% of the population has EBV exposure.

Edited by nameless, 24 May 2009 - 07:26 PM.

[ajnast4r]

Pycnogenol has reduced the asthma by around 80% within 2 weeks... I expect by the 2 month mark it will be totally relieved. Singulair and steroid inhailers and injections have WAY more severe side effects than albuterol. In my opinion 1-2 puffs of albuterol is significantly safer than daily singulair or inhailed steroid use, or long lasting steroid injections.

Also I don't HAVE to use the albuterol... Its not really a matter of necessity, more of convenience. Im not using it as a rescue inhailer per say. I take 1 puff and it opens everything up enough for me to expell whatever mucous is in there, and then I am good for the rest of the day.

As far as EBV antibodies, most people will have some... But I believe there is a threshold where you can tell the body is actively trying to supress and infection. Honestly I can't remember how to interpret the monospot, but I can look when I get home and let you know if you want?

[hullcrush]

I'll definitely check out pycnogenol. Mono is the damn trigger to whatever, not the root cause. Despite good pilot study(ies), yet to be published results on Valcyte against HHV infection are equal to placebo =/. Not good.

I was diagnosed five years ago. Here are my results from a month ago:

EBV EA-------------------------------- 1.4 HIGH 0.0-0.8
EBV Ab VCA ------------------------- >8.0 HIGH 0.0-0.8
EBV Nuclear Antigen ----------------- >8.0 HIGH 0.0-0.8
HHV-6----------------------------------1:640 HIGH >1:10

^Labcorp

I'm finding Epstein and shitting on his grave.

Edited by hullcrush, 24 May 2009 - 08:04 PM.

[nameless]

Pycnogenol has reduced the asthma by around 80% within 2 weeks... I expect by the 2 month mark it will be totally relieved. Singulair and steroid inhailers and injections have WAY more severe side effects than albuterol. In my opinion 1-2 puffs of albuterol is significantly safer than daily singulair or inhailed steroid use, or long lasting steroid injections.

Also I don't HAVE to use the albuterol... Its not really a matter of necessity, more of convenience. Im not using it as a rescue inhailer per say. I take 1 puff and it opens everything up enough for me to expell whatever mucous is in there, and then I am good for the rest of the day.

As far as EBV antibodies, most people will have some... But I believe there is a threshold where you can tell the body is actively trying to supress and infection. Honestly I can't remember how to interpret the monospot, but I can look when I get home and let you know if you want?

That is a real nice improvement there. I would hold off on anything else until you see how pycnogenol works anyway.

But I'm not sure if the risks of low dose inhaled steroids or Singulair would outweigh lung damage from uncontrolled asthma. And you don't have to be wheezing, gasping for air to have lung inflammation. But see how you do.

There is also Intal/Tilade (if they still make it) which is an inhaled Cromolyn, which could be an option for you if pycnogenol doesn't work 100%. It's good supposedly for allergy/exercise induced asthma, and works via mast cells, if I remember right. Just... it needs to be dosed a lot and I've read it tastes bad... and only works so-so. Most docs just recommend the low dose inhaled steroid route instead.

And I'm not even sure what all the Mono tests mean, to be honest. I was tested with some tick and Lyme things, and the active part came back negative, but my EBV IGG was high: >750.

No idea if this is significant in anyway. My doc just mentioned the B12 thing, but not that the EBV levels meant a whole lot.

Edited by nameless, 24 May 2009 - 08:21 PM.