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Resveratrol Beliefs and Misinformation


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#1 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 03:36 PM


Hi Everyone,

I thought I would start this post to see if we can discuss some common beliefs about resveratrol, Below are some taken from a recent press release that I believe we mostly have discussed before. Maybe we can add more info about other beliefs as well.

So let's examine them!

-- Mice fed high-dose resveratrol did not live as long as mice fed a
plain standard calorie diet. Animals on the lower dose (360 milligram human
equivalent) lived longer than those on the higher dose (1565 mg) of
resveratrol. [Resveratrol Delays Age-Related Deterioration and Mimics
Transcriptional Aspects of Dietary Restriction without Extending Life Span.
Cell Metabolism 2008 Aug;8(2):157-68]


This one seems pretty good, what is left out, is that the mice on a low dose where fed an EOD (every other day) diet (out of convenience or costs, we are really not sure). But the fact is that folks could stop eating every other day, and maybe get the same results. However, the other item is that RSV might increase human average lifespan, possibly by reducing heart disease or by improving blood glucose disposal and insulin signaling in some people. The mice did not die of heart disease after all, while people do.

-- While researchers once advised consumers to wait for stronger
synthetic molecules that can stimulate the Sirtuin1 gene by 1000-fold or more,
actual studies with warm-blood mammals showed over-activation of the Sirtuin1
gene increases the occurrence of heart failure by more than 7.5 fold. [Sirt1
regulates aging and resistance to oxidative stress in the heart. Circulation
Research 2007; 100: 1512-21]


This is another common piece of misinformation.
The study mentioned simply did not use resveratrol to over-activate the Sirtuin1 gene. Resveratrol has never been recorded to provide that level of activation that would cause heart failure. Last but not least, the Sirtris drug that is "1000 times" more powerful than resveratrol, was given to mice and these did not have instant heart attacks. So, no, there has never been a mouse drop dead due to resveratrol.

-- While it was initially believed only mega-dose resveratrol would be
effective, and that strong Sirtuin1 gene activators would be required, a much
lower dose of resveratrol (100 milligrams human equivalent of trans
resveratrol, 4 to 320 times lower than previous studies, when provided in a
patent-applied for matrix of other small molecules), exerted a 9-fold greater
genomic effect than plain resveratrol or a calorie-restricted diet. In this
study, calorie restriction significantly differentiated (up or down-regulated)
198 genes, and resveratrol, its molecular mimic, significantly influenced 225
genes, while resveratrol-based matrix (Long******) significantly
differentiated 1711 genes. [Short-term consumption of a resveratrol-containing
nutraceutical mixture mimics gene expression of long-term caloric restriction
in mouse heart. Experimental Gerontology 2008 Sep;43(9):859-66]


This one is interesting, as it relies on additional ingredients to your regimen, not just resveratrol. It is known that mice and men have different metabolisms, so generally a human would take a greater dose than a mouse. For now, let's say that the dose calculations are right, what do we need to get this kind of benefit? Just like adding additional vitmains to your regimen, you can simply add Vitamin D3, IP6, and Quercitin (although in some studies this shows to lower SIRT1 activity) to your resveratrol regimen for the additional benefits.

Vitamin D3 (90 tablets) 1000ui can be bought for as low as $3.57
IP6 - (120 Capsules) 500mg can be bought for as low as $7.67
Quercetin - (180 Capsules) 250mg can be bought for as low as $9.26

Well, that would be it right? However, the author of this press release has a regimen of 300mg of micronized resveratrol: http://web.archive.o...;catagory=Tools
So it appears that 100mg is not enough for the Author of the press release, maybe 300mg of trans-resveratrol should be the minimum to consider.


Sardi says websites selling resveratrol supplements still parrot earlier
but now outdated news reports about Sirtuin1 genes and mega-doses appear
oblivious to the striking changes in resveratrol science that have been
recently published. "Paying heed to the current data now available, mega-dose
resveratrol is ill-advised and may be related to uncommon but reported side
effects, namely Achilles heel tendon inflammation, skin rash, joint
stiffening, flu-like symptoms and numbness in fingertips, all which are
reversible," says Sardi.


I believe we have read here in the forum, that most folks having issues with resveratrol (which is a total of 4-5 people here) generally take 50% resveratrol. There are no wide spread issues that we know of. If you are concerned, simply avoid 50% resveratrol products, and instead use 98% or 99% resveratrol products. People believe products that use 50% like Biofor** or Longevine** can cause issues because of other phytonutrients in the other 50% of the product that is not resveratrol.

Longe***** was formulated as an emulsified, stabilized, and
bioavailability-enhanced resveratrol supplement over four years ago and a
patent applied for in 2004. The 3rd generation Longe***** now features
micronized and microencapsulated trans resveratrol in a matrix of quercetin,
rice bran phytate, vitamin D3 and ferulic acid.


This product has switched from regular resveratrol (50% purity) to micronized resveratrol (still 50% purity). This simply means that this product has increased the dosage, not by adding more resveratrol to the product, but by increasing it's absorbability. In essence you maybe absorbing more of the product with micronized resveratrol. How much more?

Here is an example: The Author of this press release takes 300mg of micronized resveratrol. Using the animal study by Westphal (CEO of Sirtris) that was submitted in in USPTO document 20060292099, regarding regulr resveratrol comparision versus micronized resveratrol. The Author's dose of 300mg of micronized resveratrol, comes out to about 900mg of regular resveratrol.

900mg of Non-micronized Resveratrol might be considered a high dose by some, but apparently is ok for the author.



Does anyone want to add more interesting misnomers, beliefs about resveratrol or items to discuss?

A

#2 sUper GeNius

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 01:20 PM

Oh man, how could you have forgotten all the Licap crap promulgated by some?

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#3 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 02:31 PM

Licaps!! Of course!!!

How could I forget those?

Licaps are capsules made by Pfizer. Pfizer holds the patents, not any other supplement company that may have advertised this in the past. Basically the resveratrol formulation is premixed into a mostly liquid, that is then used with nitrogen to fill these capsules. The idea is that no oxygen is used or trapped in the capsule.

The capsules themselves come in Gelatin form, and HPMC (Vegetarian). However, the vegetarian capsules have an additional ingredient, namely beeswax that is mixed in with the other ingredients and creates a paste. This paste decreases the absorption of ingredients, and other people may call this "micro-encapsulation" and a benefit. From our standpoint, if it effects absorption, it's not a benefit to our customers at all. Our company has worked with Pfizer folks at Licaps recently regarding strictly an absorption formula for our micronized resveratrol, and that's how we know about this info.

Here's the myth:
Originally it was thought that resveratrol would oxidize when it came into contact with oxygen, heat, and light.
Now we know that the real culprit is really UV light, and heat if you decide to cook/bake resveratrol into some food (It is estimated about half of resveratrol to turn into cis-resveratrol when baking).

So why am I going to use Licaps in a new product?
1- Good marketing, as people believe the Licaps capsules can survive an atomic blast... (ok, maybe not that, but they are considered the volvo of capsules)
2- Our new Micronized Resveratrol application is a liquid, so it was between Pfizer and other liquid filled caps...
3- Pfizer's unmatched manufacturing techniques.
4- Some folks think it's time

Personally, if you don't mind making your own emulsion... the resveratrol powders will still be considered a "best buy".
For those wanting a portable capsule with a guaranteed increase in absorption over what you can do in a blender, you will soon have more options.


Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 11 September 2008 - 02:34 PM.


#4 SearchHorizon

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 12:23 PM

Based on my 99% resveratrol use, I think the joint pains from resv administration are real.

I am now also getting muscle aches and constant diarrhea. Diarrheas occur whether I take the resveratrol via buccal delivery or orally. It makes little difference.

-----------------------

My suspicion is that resveratrol exerts its positive effect by applying stress on the body. This causes SIRT1 to be activated, much like the way heat, UV light, or hunger does. If this is true, one's resveratrol intake should be low (for longevity purposes).

#5 niner

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 05:34 AM

Based on my 99% resveratrol use, I think the joint pains from resv administration are real.

I am now also getting muscle aches and constant diarrhea. Diarrheas occur whether I take the resveratrol via buccal delivery or orally. It makes little difference.

My suspicion is that resveratrol exerts its positive effect by applying stress on the body. This causes SIRT1 to be activated, much like the way heat, UV light, or hunger does. If this is true, one's resveratrol intake should be low (for longevity purposes).

I've heard enough reports of joint pains, including with high purity extracts, to believe there is something to it.

"Applying stress on the body" really doesn't have a meaning to a biochemist. Resveratrol interacts directly with SIRT1, although it appears to have other actions as well. I think that there are some people who shouldn't take it; you may be one of them.

#6 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 01:01 PM

Well 2 things have happened that changes 2 things, and that I need to correct:

1- The regimen on his page here (Dated 09/21/2008 by google snapshot) has been edited out. So it appears his regimen has changed. Since this is no longer available, I assume he has changed it:

http://74.125.45.104...lient=firefox-a

2- Licaps are not used anymore.

I recently ordered the capsules in the old regimen (before it was changed) to check a few things, and make sure we had our ducks in a row.
I sent some capsules to the Pfizer formulator to see if he could provide any info on them, here is what his email said after he had time to look at them:

This product is not a liquid filled capsule. Capsules are filled with dry powder blend and sealed using similar principles as our technology.
Capsule used are regular HPMC (vegetarian capsules) designed for powder fill applications.
They are not L-Vcaps™ which we use exclusively in products we manufacture.
We are not selling our L-Vcaps to anybody else.

L-Vcaps ™- Liquid Vegetarian Capsules
Licaps ™ - Liquid Gelatin Capsules.

I hope this will help.


Having gotten that information from Pfizer, it appears I was incorrect regarding Licaps, and stand corrected by the Pfizer formulator. I don't mind being corrected by Pfizer, although I prefer to have found this info in a public place or on the package, as Pfizer personnel doesn't usually do these kind of favors for the average person.

I just wanted to clear that up, since we have gotten this info recently. It certainly throws off some of my assumptions. But since this was not made public, I could have not of known about it prior to Pfizer eyeballing the capsules.

Now, we are still going to use Licaps, since we have established a great formulation for absorption.

Cheers
A

#7 BrandonFlorida

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 05:56 PM

Who exactly is this guy, Sardi, does he have any financial interest in a competing product, and does he have the background, reputation, etc. to be believed? Does he publish in peer reviewed journals? Not every statement released is reliable.

#8 edward

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 03:14 AM

Who exactly is this guy, Sardi, does he have any financial interest in a competing product, and does he have the background, reputation, etc. to be believed? Does he publish in peer reviewed journals? Not every statement released is reliable.


He is the PT Barnum of Resveratrol

#9 niner

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 03:20 AM

Who exactly is this guy, Sardi, does he have any financial interest in a competing product, and does he have the background, reputation, etc. to be believed? Does he publish in peer reviewed journals? Not every statement released is reliable.


He is the PT Barnum of Resveratrol

Good one, edward. Sardi runs Longevinex. He was in the Resveratrol field early; I have to give him credit for that. I don't think that he's a scientist, but he seems to be capable of reading the literature. The problem is that he tends to twist the science to fit his commercial ends. He has his own 'theory of aging'. Something about metals.

#10 Dmitri

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 03:42 AM

Hi Everyone,

This one is interesting, as it relies on additional ingredients to your regimen, not just resveratrol. It is known that mice and men have different metabolisms, so generally a human would take a greater dose than a mouse. For now, let's say that the dose calculations are right, what do we need to get this kind of benefit? Just like adding additional vitmains to your regimen, you can simply add Vitamin D3, IP6, and Quercitin (although in some studies this shows to lower SIRT1 activity) to your resveratrol regimen for the additional benefits.

Vitamin D3 (90 tablets) 1000ui can be bought for as low as $3.57
IP6 - (120 Capsules) 500mg can be bought for as low as $7.67
Quercetin - (180 Capsules) 250mg can be bought for as low as $9.26

Well, that would be it right? However, the author of this press release has a regimen of 300mg of micronized resveratrol: http://web.archive.o...;catagory=Tools
So it appears that 100mg is not enough for the Author of the press release, maybe 300mg of trans-resveratrol should be the minimum to consider.


I have a question for you, for someone who has never taken resveratrol what dosage would you recommend I start with? Also, should res be taken at the same time as a multi-vitamin/mineral supplement or should I take it at a later time?

Edited by Dmitri, 12 October 2008 - 04:00 AM.


#11 thefirstimmortal

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 05:53 AM

Based on my 99% resveratrol use, I think the joint pains from resv administration are real.

I am now also getting muscle aches and constant diarrhea. Diarrheas occur whether I take the resveratrol via buccal delivery or orally. It makes little difference.


I've been using 15g to 20g for several months now, I have not noticed any joint pains. How much do you take?

#12 SearchHorizon

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 06:40 AM

Based on my 99% resveratrol use, I think the joint pains from resv administration are real.

I am now also getting muscle aches and constant diarrhea. Diarrheas occur whether I take the resveratrol via buccal delivery or orally. It makes little difference.


I've been using 15g to 20g for several months now, I have not noticed any joint pains. How much do you take?

I have been taking 2 g / day.

I note that I have diarrhea when I take resveratrol, even when I use buccal delivery method.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#13 maxwatt

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:10 PM

Based on my 99% resveratrol use, I think the joint pains from resv administration are real.

I am now also getting muscle aches and constant diarrhea. Diarrheas occur whether I take the resveratrol via buccal delivery or orally. It makes little difference.


I've been using 15g to 20g for several months now, I have not noticed any joint pains. How much do you take?

I have been taking 2 g / day.

I note that I have diarrhea when I take resveratrol, even when I use buccal delivery method.

Diarrhea remedy: 1 cup of water, 2 tsp sugar, 1/4 tsp salt. Dissolve.
Drink half hour or more after eating, and 1/2 hur or more before eating.
restores intestinal electrolyte balance.




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