7 replies to this topic

[NickCage]

Hello Everyone,

It's my final year at college studying advanced chemistry, advanced biology, physics and further mathematics. Last year a friend of mine gave me some modafinil to try and I was very impressed with it to say the least. I could sit and study for 8-12hrs straight, without getting up from my chair. Needless to say I ended up using it constantly for a month and went up to dosages of excess of 800mg a day. Yes I know that was silly, and most likely counterproductive from what I read on the forums anyways, with the inverted U shape dose response and all. So this year round I am going to use nootopics more sensibly and systematically. I would be very grateful if you could comment on my stack and give advice etc.

Intended to be taken daily
Modafinil 200mg
Aniracetam 750mg
Piracetam 3500mg
Deprenyl 5mg
ALCAR 2000mg
K-RALA (the stable potassium salt form of R-Lipoic Acid) 250mg
Chocamine 100mg (to find out what this is http://www.myprotein...ess/chocamine/)
Glucuronolactone 200mg
L-tyrosine 750mg
Citicoline 500mg
Choline Bitartrate 1000mg

In addition to: good sleeping habits (up at 7am bed at 10pm), regular cardio 4 times a week, only drinking water and green tea, eating properly, and taking a good multivitamin and omega 3 tablet every day.

Questions
Is modafinil safe with racetams?
Can I just get normal ALA and double up, as its a hell of a lot cheaper than K-RALA ?
Will Deprenyl negatively interact with Chocamine and L-tyrosine?
Can I safely take this stack for 80 days, or should I cycle on and off, take breaks ect?
Should I spread the doses out or can I take them all at once, together?
Which is better Citicoline or Alpha GPC?
Am I missing anything from my stack?

[mystery]

Here's regarding combining deprenyl (an MAO) with modafinil.
Mofainil Prescribing Information

Monoamine Oxidase (MAO) Inhibitors - Interaction studies with monoamine oxidase inhibitors have not been performed. Therefore, caution should
be used when concomitantly administering MAO inhibitors and modafinil.

I'm not so sure about combining either modafinil or deprenyl with that much L-Tyrosine. All of these seemed to have an impact on my heart rate. Maybe you'd want to cut the deprenyl to <2 mg, and the L-tyrosline to <250 mg and see how that goes? These two might improve alertness and concentration some, so it might not be necessary to take as much modafinil.

Edited by mystery, 26 September 2008 - 04:18 PM.

[juanjo_asdf]

For my personal taste

- You dont need so many things on that stack more is not better
- I dont know how youre doing with it but I personally have bad experiences combining aniracetam and piracetam. If you are going to be toying with racetams my advice is to introduce them slowly and patiently and gauge effects by yourself. More is not better. Start of the stack with some anira or pira and slowly pump the dosages. Im not a believer in attack dosages. Ive heard some experienced users say that people react well to piracetam OR aniracetam rarely to both. I havent heard accounts of too many people combine both together
- Deprenyl and modafinil dont mix, they caused anxiety and inability to concentrate. Its goint to take about 3 weeks for it to clear out of your system
- alpha-gpc is superior to citicoline
- Some people find alcar interfering with their racetam/choline stack. I did too, but maybe it was other things I was taking at the time, you never know. Run a search at Mind and Muscle forums


For your study purposes I would start of with
- racetam plus choline source and slowly and patiently pump up the dosages, giving it a full month, month and a half to kick in. Once you peak you can try to lower the dosages to gauge for the lower range in dosaging
- are you missing anything in your stack? I personally like to combine centrophenoxine with alpha-gpc for the choline source
- modfinil in low dosages would be ok (my guess is that piracetam is going to be increasing the stimulation of moda). For your purposes I would choose modafinil over deprenyl
- in addition to runing you can try out breathing exercises
- diet will have a big influence on your mental abilities

[Advanc3d]

why do people fail to realised that Selegiline at appropiate doses IS NOT A ALL MAO inhibitor.
5mg a days is a good dose to potently just inhibit maoi-b

modafinil is safe with selegiline at right doses, selegiline would probably potentiate it, this is a good thing because you will only have to use half the dose and it will save you money!
hell, theres a study that says selegiline taken with methamphetamine SIGNIFCANTLY reduces cardivascular side effects


also yea take less than 2.5mg of selegiline a day, if you are infact going to take it daily.
otherwise 5mg a day for a prolong period of time will cause excessive sleepyness

add Green tea extract to the mix.
green tea is a potent COMT inhibitor. COMT is one of several enzymes that degrade catecholamines such as dopamine, epinephrine, and norepinephrine

Edited by Advanc3d, 26 September 2008 - 11:44 PM.

[Wedrifid]

Good advice Advanc3d.

Just to reiterate, selegiline does not inhibit MAO-a except at high doses (over 10mg per day). MAO-a is the one that warrants the huge warning signs. MAO-a inhibitors mess with seratonin. Having two things that mess with seratonin at the same time is like russian roulette. It can kill you. MAO-b inhibition is, by comparison at least, just candy.


I'll also confirm that the research has found that selegiline significantly reduces both the cardiovascular and neurotoxic side effects when used with methamphetamines. Selegiline is sometimes used to lower blood pressure and is neuroprotective. As a bonus, it potentiates the effect of modafinil and stimulants allowing lower doses.

why do people fail to realised that Selegiline at appropiate doses IS NOT A ALL MAO inhibitor.
5mg a days is a good dose to potently just inhibit maoi-b

modafinil is safe with selegiline at right doses, selegiline would probably potentiate it, this is a good thing because you will only have to use half the dose and it will save you money!
hell, theres a study that says selegiline taken with methamphetamine SIGNIFCANTLY reduces cardivascular side effects


also yea take less than 2.5mg of selegiline a day, if you are infact going to take it daily.
otherwise 5mg a day for a prolong period of time will cause excessive sleepyness

add Green tea extract to the mix.
green tea is a potent COMT inhibitor. COMT is one of several enzymes that degrade catecholamines such as dopamine, epinephrine, and norepinephrine

[mystery]

[...]
MAO-b inhibition is, by comparison at least, just candy.


I'll also confirm that the research has found that selegiline significantly reduces both the cardiovascular and neurotoxic side effects when used with methamphetamines. Selegiline is sometimes used to lower blood pressure and is neuroprotective. As a bonus, it potentiates the effect of modafinil and stimulants allowing lower doses.

I would not be too quick to conclude that it is "just candy".

I noticed an increase in heart rate on deprenyl. It might have been due to the small amount of l-methamphetamine that deprenyl metabolizes to which is a potent norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. People have reported heart palpitations on L-tyrosline, and I've noticed an increase in heart rate on this. I've noticed an increase in heart rate on modafinil. I think I would be very cautious about combining these 3, as there seems like a risk of hypertensive crises.

In regards to using deprenyl with methamphetamine or amphetamine, there is no differentation between MAOI As or Bs in the following, but that's not to say I know if there shouldn't be.

Desoxyn Prescribing Information

DESOXYN tablets are contraindicated during or within 14 days following
the administration of monoamine oxidase inhibitors; hypertensive
crisis may result.

Mallinckrodt Dextroamphetamine Prescribing Information

Drug Interactions
[...]
MAO inhibitors – MAOI antidepressants, as well as a metabolite of furazolidone, slow
amphetamine metabolism. This slowing potentiates amphetamines, increasing their effect on the
release of norepinephrine and other monoamines from adrenergic nerve endings; this can cause
headaches and other signs of hypertensive crisis. A variety of neurological toxic effects and
malignant hyperpyrexia can occur, sometimes with fatal results.

Edited by mystery, 27 September 2008 - 10:26 PM.

[Advanc3d]

.

Edited by Advanc3d, 28 September 2008 - 12:36 AM.

[NickCage]

L-amphetamine and L-methamphetamine (wikipedia)

Selegiline is partly metabolized to l-methamphetamine, one of the two enantiomers of methamphetamine in vivo.^[8] A characteristic metabolic pattern was noted, exemplified by a ratio of l-methamphetamine to l-amphetamine of about 2.8.^[9] This stereoisomer is not considered psychoactive and has little abuse potential.^[10] The stimulatory effect on locomotor activity and dopamine synthesis may be contributed to by the action of l-methamphetamine. Due to this metabolite selegiline can cause false positives for amphetamine/methamphetamine on drug tests.


Bioavailability 4.4%

I'm not really worried taking deprenyl with it's extremly low bioavailability, I am taking it orally.