18 replies to this topic

[HappyCamper]

Methylene Blue (Urolene Blue/Rember/Methylthioninum Chloride, "MTC", CAS# 61-73-4, 7220-79-3) is being hailed as a breakthrough for treating AD, breaking up the tau-tangles and proteins. Well, that is...the Phase II trials shows promise. Anyway...in some articles they speak of a "special form" of MTC. Personally, I think this is pure BS. Methylthioninum Chloride is Methylthioninum Chloride is Methylthioninum Chloride and nothing else, right? It might be a very PURE MTC used in the trials, but that's another thing.

Then there's two more things, first of all dosage: used to treat urinary tract infections etc. (well established since many years), the dosage is 50 mg three times daily. From what I have read, the optimum (so far!) dosage in the AD-studies is 60 mg three times daily. Yet, in other articles they seem to mention almost homeopathic doses!!! http://www.scienceda...80818101335.htm Is this because stupid so called scientific journalists don't know the difference between mcg and mg?!

Secondly, formulation. The MTC is just MTC, nothing special there, we already know that. And since the original report, and other papers state that it must be taken up in the stomach, and not the intestines, it cannot be anything else than a simple tablet or capsule! There might be some additive to make absorption easier (which then would be the "special" in regard to TauRx formulation), but I highly doubt that.

My point is this:

If someone buys very pure MTC, call it generic rember if you will, put's it in capsules with 60 mg each, eats these three times a day...they should be simulating the the current trials very well.

Remember that MTC is a powerful MAO-inhibitor, it would be very unwise to use it with SSRI:s and similar medications who raises serotonine levels. It might be possible, with adjustments of dosage, but for someone with mild to moderate AD, who want's to give it a try, I would let one week pass between the last dose of SSRI or similar, until start of MC therapy.

The above post is not intended to be, nor is, medical advice of any sorts. It's only one of billions of posts on the web. Input greatly appreciated, please post!

[HappyCamper]

http://www3.intersci...l...=1&SRETRY=0

[maxwatt]

http://www3.intersci...l...=1&SRETRY=0

I can't open that link, some error about accepting cookies.

The subject was discussed extensively in sci.life-extension newsgroup Here via Google.

It does look like they were using mcg amounts in some studies. it is possible to buy methylene blue at most pet stores. It cures fungal infections. If one could determine the correct dose, it should be possible to experiment with it. Microgram doses are unikely to present any problems.

[edward]

Very interesting, started early this stuff could prevent the tau protein cascade they speak of (possibility benefiting "normal" age related cognitive decline not just alzheimer's?) I need some more info on doses etc. as high concentrations damage the brain.... but I am very curious, don't like the MAO A inhibition though. Three times a day dosing would be a pain

try this link
http://www.scienceda...80818101335.htm

Edited by edward, 07 October 2008 - 11:25 AM.

[tunt01]

http://www.scienceda...90929181808.htm

Hsp70 inhibition helps rid the brian of Tau. Methylene blue inhibits hsp70.

[Lufega]

http://en.wikipedia....t_shock_protein

Extracellular and membrane bound heat-shock proteins, especially Hsp70 are involved in binding antigens and presenting them to the immune system.^[14]

Could Methylene blue have any implications in downregulating autoimmune conditions???

[Lufega]

http://www.scienceda...90929181808.htm

Hsp70 inhibition helps rid the brian of Tau. Methylene blue inhibits hsp70.

This study is apparently innacurate.

Hsp70 molecular chaperones and Parkinson's disease.
Because over-expression of Hsp70 molecular chaperones suppresses the toxicity of aberrantly folded proteins that occur in Alzheimer's disease (AD), Parkinson's disease (PD), amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, and various polyQ-diseases (Huntington's disease and ataxias), Hsp70 is garnering attention as a possible therapeutic agent for these various diseases. Here I review progress in this fascinating field of molecular chaperones and neurodegeneration and describe our current understanding of the mechanisms by which Hsp70 protects cells from the PD-related protein called alpha-synuclein (alpha-syn). © 2009 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. Biopolymers, 2009.

And the Science daily article confirms it

The USF researchers originally thought activating Hsp70 would direct the chaperone protein to decrease the tau gone bad -- preventing tau from stacking up into tangles inside cells involved in memory and destroying them. But instead of restoring tau to its normal supportive function, activating Hsp70 actually led to tau's preservation and even more accumulation, Dickey said. "Basically we think the chaperone binds to the tau, and somehow in the process of trying to fix things decides to keep holding onto tau when it shouldn't. So, activating Hsp70 is not necessarily what we want to do; we ultimately want to inhibit Hsp70 to promote the release or clearance of tau …to kill the bad tau."

[tunt01]

http://www.scienceda...90929133123.htm

maybe give that a quick glance. seems to again point to a similar direction.

[aaCharley]

http://www.scienceda...90929133123.htm

maybe give that a quick glance. seems to again point to a similar direction.

This may be a better link for the article on methylene blue
Protein Inhibitor Helps Rid Brain Of Toxic Tau Protein
http://www.scienceda...90929181808.htm

[FunkOdyssey]

For those that are currently using this, what is your dosage, where are you sourcing it from (aquarium supplies?), and what effects have you noted?

[rwac]

For those that are currently using this, what is your dosage, where are you sourcing it from (aquarium supplies?), and what effects have you noted?

Sourcing it from aquarium supplies. It needs to be diluted down a fair bit.
I started with 30 mcg 3-4 times a day. Now I've bumped it up to about 240 mcg/day.

Also, it interferes with CoQ10, so you might want to experiment with smaller doses if 30 mcg doesn't work.
People have reported effects with doses as small as 1 mcg!

It cleared my brain fog right up, for one thing. Other people have reported nootropic effects too.

[Lufega]

I feel a lot sharper while I'm on it. I do feel that Q10 and MB antagonize each other but I learned to take them at separate times.

[FunkOdyssey]

I feel a lot sharper while I'm on it. I do feel that Q10 and MB antagonize each other but I learned to take them at separate times.

I can't help but wonder if some placebo effect is involved then with this CoQ10/Methylene Blue relationship because CoQ10 has a serum half-life of greater than 30 hours (changing dosing schedule should make no difference).

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 09 October 2009 - 03:54 PM.

[Jurence]

MAOI means it is addictive- yeah?

[s123]

For those that are currently using this, what is your dosage, where are you sourcing it from (aquarium supplies?), and what effects have you noted?

Sourcing it from aquarium supplies.

Don't use that stuff, it is contaminated with related thiazine dyes and heavy metals. Pharmaceutical grade has become available a few years ago. The DNA staining by MB is mostly caused by the contaminants (azures).

[rwac]

Don't use that stuff, it is contaminated with related thiazine dyes and heavy metals. Pharmaceutical grade has become available a few years ago. The DNA staining by MB is mostly caused by the contaminants (azures).

You got a reference for DNA staining being caused by the contaminants ? MB stains DNA too, you know.
Some links about impurities in non-pharma grade MB that's not just scare-mongering would be good.

Assuming 1 mg as a maximum nootropic dose, say impurities are high at say 5%.
That would be about 50mcg of Lead/Arsenic (worst case), which is probably below toxicity levels ...

A source for pharma-grade ? That would be just amazing.

[maxwatt]

Don't use that stuff, it is contaminated with related thiazine dyes and heavy metals. Pharmaceutical grade has become available a few years ago. The DNA staining by MB is mostly caused by the contaminants (azures).

You got a reference for DNA staining being caused by the contaminants ? MB stains DNA too, you know.
Some links about impurities in non-pharma grade MB that's not just scare-mongering would be good.

Assuming 1 mg as a maximum nootropic dose, say impurities are high at say 5%.
That would be about 50mcg of Lead/Arsenic (worst case), which is probably below toxicity levels ...

A source for pharma-grade ? That would be just amazing.

I may have such a source in about a month.

I thought methylene blue is a stain in and of itself. It certainly is blue. The stuff used for fish? Fish are pretty delicate, it would need to be pretty darn pure - if it killed the fish, a lot of unhappy aquarium owners would be suing the manufactures.

[NeuroGuy]

Don't use that stuff, it is contaminated with related thiazine dyes and heavy metals. Pharmaceutical grade has become available a few years ago. The DNA staining by MB is mostly caused by the contaminants (azures).

You got a reference for DNA staining being caused by the contaminants ? MB stains DNA too, you know.
Some links about impurities in non-pharma grade MB that's not just scare-mongering would be good.

Assuming 1 mg as a maximum nootropic dose, say impurities are high at say 5%.
That would be about 50mcg of Lead/Arsenic (worst case), which is probably below toxicity levels ...

A source for pharma-grade ? That would be just amazing.

I may have such a source in about a month.

I thought methylene blue is a stain in and of itself. It certainly is blue. The stuff used for fish? Fish are pretty delicate, it would need to be pretty darn pure - if it killed the fish, a lot of unhappy aquarium owners would be suing the manufactures.

Did you end up getting that source maxwatt?

[maxwatt]

Don't use that stuff, it is contaminated with related thiazine dyes and heavy metals. Pharmaceutical grade has become available a few years ago. The DNA staining by MB is mostly caused by the contaminants (azures).

You got a reference for DNA staining being caused by the contaminants ? MB stains DNA too, you know.
Some links about impurities in non-pharma grade MB that's not just scare-mongering would be good.

Assuming 1 mg as a maximum nootropic dose, say impurities are high at say 5%.
That would be about 50mcg of Lead/Arsenic (worst case), which is probably below toxicity levels ...

A source for pharma-grade ? That would be just amazing.

I may have such a source in about a month.

I thought methylene blue is a stain in and of itself. It certainly is blue. The stuff used for fish? Fish are pretty delicate, it would need to be pretty darn pure - if it killed the fish, a lot of unhappy aquarium owners would be suing the manufactures.

Did you end up getting that source maxwatt?

yes. I am trying to get Kingherbs (former sponsor of the Retailor/Product Discussion forum) to carry it...
It's not a money maker though, a year's supply would be around $30; it would be more of a public service if/when they do. There are other issues, too, involving labeling and human use. Even though the original material is pharmaceutical grade, once it is opened and repackaged it cannot be labeled as such. If there is interest please contact me so I can get an idea of how much would need to be packaged.

Edited by maxwatt, 30 July 2010 - 11:01 AM.