10 replies to this topic

[Nihilated]

There are no 'big' or 'small' choices in this world. Until the modern era, it has been believed that time would lead to death, which would (hopefully) lead to heaven. Now, the choices are as simple: one must either die or transcend their current life through the use of mind-manipulating technologies. Either way, life past a threshold won't be life as it was.

Thus it can be concluded that the current state of existence is trivial and insignificant. Whether one lives in a mansion currently or had a date to prom in high school will have no impact on the outcome of the future. Whether one received a prestigious degree from Harvard or a modest one from a different university is completely insignificant. There is no point in achieving for the sake of achieving, as there is no pressure to do things against one's will.

After all, who can be absolutely sure that they will live to see tomorrow's morning?

Edited by Nihilated, 02 November 2008 - 10:34 PM.

[cyborgdreamer]

There are no 'big' or 'small' choices in this world. Until the modern era, it has been believed that time would lead to death, which would (hopefully) lead to heaven. Now, the choices are as simple: one must either die or transcend their current life through the use of mind-manipulating technologies. Either way, life past a threshold won't be life as it was.

Thus it can be concluded that the current state of existence is trivial and insignificant. Whether one lives in a mansion currently or had a date to prom in high school will have no impact on the outcome of the future. Whether one received a prestigious degree from Harvard or a modest one from a different university is completely insignificant. There is no point in achieving for the sake of achieving, as there is no pressure to do things against one's will.

After all, who can be absolutely sure that they will live to see tomorrow's morning?

I disagree. First of all, we don't have 'mind manipulating technologies' yet. When and if we get them depends on how people live their lives now. It depends on how many people study to become biomedical researchers or computer scientists and on how many people donate money to help. Furthermore, any individual's chance of surviving to see that technology depends on whether they take care of their health, avoid unnecessary risks, and sign up for cryonics.

Uploading technology wouldn't necessarily have to render our current lives ineffectual, either. People would enhance themselves according to their current values, which may include preserving various aspects of their human lives. For example, spouses might choose to become posthumans who are still capable of maintaining their marriage. In this case, who you date now could greatly affect your posthuman life.

[brokenportal]

There are no 'big' or 'small' choices in this world. Until the modern era, it has been believed that time would lead to death, which would (hopefully) lead to heaven. Now, the choices are as simple: one must either die or transcend their current life through the use of mind-manipulating technologies. Either way, life past a threshold won't be life as it was.

But thats ok because life tomorrow will never be life as it was yesterday, we are always changing ourselves, and society is always changing too. We will continue to be people, just people that are progressively more enabled.

Thus it can be concluded that the current state of existence is trivial and insignificant. Whether one lives in a mansion currently or had a date to prom in high school will have no impact on the outcome of the future. Whether one received a prestigious degree from Harvard or a modest one from a different university is completely insignificant. There is no point in achieving for the sake of achieving, as there is no pressure to do things against one's will.

After all, who can be absolutely sure that they will live to see tomorrow's morning?

Your right, our current state of affairs are trivial. Doing anything but fighting for life extension at this point is horrific. Like building a big acres long designer gazzeebo for flowers to grow on in the middle of a civil war encampment full of soldiers with out enough housing that are freezing to death.
If we could we would/should draft people for Indefinite Healthy Life Extension advancement, and sanction the rationing of resources like they did, like, put a ban on spending more than 100,000 on a house or stuff like that so more resources can be filtered into the cause.

This reminds me of when I used to constantly tell christians something along these lines, "If you guys really think that the unsaved will burn for eternity, then you should be out there desperately trying to get through to them, doing anything you can to save them. Like for example if there were a fire in a school, you would bust your ass off to help make sure everybody got out of there alive. You should be acting like that."

Well what you wrote here in this topic makes me realize, (not sure how I didnt think this before) that that is the same for us. We, should be working on this like its a burning school. If I could I would sanction a draft to help with life extension. This concept has got me all worked up now. In conclusion I think we should start planning now to get a life extensionist president into office. We could set a 20 year goal.

Ill outline it in this projects list Im developing and helping people develop, get in with us here: http://docs.google.c...evision=_latest

[bacopa]

I couldn't agree with you more. This is a ticking time bomb and if we don't diffuse it we'll all be worm food one day. There should be nothing more important than advocating for healthy life extension. I know it's on my mind 24/7!

[brokenportal]

Then start collaborating more. I rent out rooms in a building here. Life extensionists that can, move in here. Mind lives around here too.

Or find out who all is in your area, and get them all to move closer to you. Collaborate, focus in, help with everything you can. I could really use a hand in here:
http://docs.google.c...evision=_latest

Edited by brokenportal, 03 November 2008 - 07:21 AM.

[Ben]

Hmm, so basically why bother if we're going to die anyway?

I think that's the only coherent point you make.

[brokenportal]

Hmm, so basically why bother if we're going to die anyway?

I think that's the only coherent point you make.

Isnt it true?

Why bother if your going to die anyways? My grandparents built a bustling ever expanding farm over the years. It was fun to watch and be a part of. Now that they are older they have sold their cows and the buildings are moving back into the dirt. If they remained robust then we would still be out there keeping the buildings up to date and expanding the operation and building on that life. But not only the buildings but soon they are going to go back into the ground and with it a part of my life. What was the point of me even making it part of my life if its just going to all compost away? Why did they even build it? I would almost rather have never known them and that life than to have to face the impending obliteration and the pain that will come with all of that. Memories dont do it justice. Does a drawing of the roman empire do it justice? The purpose of building anything is for securing yourself a brighter more enabled fulfilling future.

When I walk through the woods and see traces of old houses I think about how kids probably grew up and learned to walk and had their first puppies and stuff like that right here. That they have already passed through their 40s, 70s, and died. What was all that for? Who rembers them? If they had secured a hut or a mansion it would be all the same right now.

The only point in living, with out life extension, is to reproduce in hopes that the future will figure life extension out.

[Evolutionary]

Game of Life

[Evolutionary]

http://www.zbp.univi.../whatislife.htm -What is Life?(Erwin Schrodinger)

[Cassox]

I disagree with the idea that because something will ultimately end, it is irrelevant. Think of your early loves. I have had many relationships that are "just for now." They were still fulfilling and worthwhile. I don't regret ending them though. Life overall is the same. Its experiential. I think that it the pursuit, the passion of living each moment that makes it worthwhile. I would even go so far as to say that immortality will probably decrease the significance of events, because hey... I got all the time in the world.

Now, I'm not saying that immortality in NOT a worthwhile goal. I'm simply saying that people should not lose sight of what they have now. Cows do get sold, buildings go back into the ground, but right this moment you are alive so take a deep breathe and appreciate it. If you die, it doesn't take away from that. A person who can't appreciate the worth of an impermanent life, shouldn't be seeking after a permanent one.

[brokenportal]

Well your right, but there is a difference between people in your life not being such a big part or any part of your life any more, and them obliterating.

The buildings are sad too, but they can be built again and cows can be bought back.

I agree, that its the persuit, the living of each moment, but every person that is robbed and lessened from it is a burden to all future moments.

If the person doesnt obliterate, they will always still be a part of your life. Like, just because you dont talk to them for 10 years, it doesnt mean you cant again.

They will all still be a part of the big equation.

In other words, Im trying to explain to you why your better off if your family is alive rather than dead. The pro aging trance is so embeded in humanity that it comes down to this. Im still fighting off some aspects of its effects too, Im just saying.

I would say that

I would even go so far as to say that immortality will probably decrease the significance of events, because hey... I got all the time in the world.

is maybe good in theory, but just is flat out not true at all. When you are alive you can always gain any sight you may have lost as to things being significant. When you are dead you lose all sight and have no chance of regaining it through perspective, through life style change etc.. The persuit of what I call the big 8 things in the universe would be hard pressed from what I can see to allow anybody to decrease their appreciation for the significance of events.

And death will take away from my life. Its a direct correlation actually, it will take everything away from my life. See how entrenched the pro aging trance can get? It even suggests to a lot of people that death might not take away from life.

If I were to try to rephrase your last sentence I would probably say something like, 'a person who cant appreciate the worth of life probably wont care if they die or not.'

I disagree with the idea that because something will ultimately end, it is irrelevant. Think of your early loves. I have had many relationships that are "just for now." They were still fulfilling and worthwhile. I don't regret ending them though. Life overall is the same. Its experiential. I think that it the pursuit, the passion of living each moment that makes it worthwhile. I would even go so far as to say that immortality will probably decrease the significance of events, because hey... I got all the time in the world.

Now, I'm not saying that immortality in NOT a worthwhile goal. I'm simply saying that people should not lose sight of what they have now. Cows do get sold, buildings go back into the ground, but right this moment you are alive so take a deep breathe and appreciate it. If you die, it doesn't take away from that. A person who can't appreciate the worth of an impermanent life, shouldn't be seeking after a permanent one.

*reason for edit, to ad link to "the big 8". How do you guys add that little box that says "reason for edit"?

Edited by brokenportal, 08 November 2008 - 08:48 PM.