35 replies to this topic

[caliban]

It has become really clear to me that there are two ways of navigating the ImmInst forums.
One way is much less desirable than the other.

Firstly, you can just just the forums. click on the section that you are interested in. Have a look at all the topics there. Most recent topics are at the top. Topics are rated by members for quality. The item next to the topic will indicate if you have seen the last post in it.


Secondly, you can click on the "active topics" page. This will list the most recent topics anywhere in the forum. Clicking on these will lead you straight to the topic.

The only people how should be using "active topics" are those who visit the forum VERY frequently and have an interest in everything that goes on. Its great for moderators I concede. All others should beware.

If you rely exclusively on active topics you will miss important items, you will miss context, you will be submerged with chatter and discussions that you are not interested in.

Looking back, I should have noticed the pervasiveness of this problem sooner. When BJ named the forums he gave each off them a little 'flagging letter' to be able to spot leadership posts in the busy active topics list. When Mind revised the frontpage, the only link he used for the forums lead to the "active topics page". I often wonder how members of leadership can miss important topics and even votes - surely they check the important forums and not just the active topics list? I wonder why people just place new topics strange places - well, as long as you are in the "active topics list" people will find your topic wether or not you are in the relevant section.
I began to realise how often people complain about the distractions of the active topic feature. Recently, the politics forum was even delisted from 'active topics' for that reason.

The are workarounds : In Firefox you can use the "selective" feature and only select certain forums to populate you active topics list.
We could pay someone to program "pre-seleted" active topics buttons (one for science, one for nutrition etc). But I don't think any of these options are desirable, because the basic problem would still remain. People should be checking forums not topic lists.

I suggested removing the "active topics" button entirely, but was rebuked that not only would this be unpopular with those who have become addicted to it, it would also be depriving users of functionality. I'm not sure about that. In my view the active topics function is not a feature, it a bug.

Maybe I'm missing something. (I did miss that this is useful to Navigators and others who try to read most of the forum). I'd be interested to hear your views.

But to those who rely mainly on the active topics button, I'd issue the challenge:
Try an "active topics withdrawal" for a couple of weeks and tell us if you are missing something.

[Brainbox]

I use both ways, but primarily the active-topics featured-bug-function-thing.
After longer absences I also skim the normal forum index.
Which kind-of suites me.

[FunkOdyssey]

Either you are missing something or I am hopelessly addicted to this rotten bug we know as Active Topics, because both my efforts as a navigator and as a regular user of the forum would be completely hamstrung if you removed it.

[Lazarus Long]

I use both the direct access and the active topics but I also use the select function too occasionally. I also sometimes have six or ten browser tabs and/or windows open to the site so I can reference multiple topics and issues fast.

[Mind]

It is indispensable for the ED in order to keep up with the "pulse" of the organization. That being said, as the site grows, and active topics get to be 5, 6, 7 pages each 24 hour period, it will be much more difficult to read "the pulse" (for NAVS as well). Still, at this point, I don't see the need to remove it. The NAV team should have the final say as they are responsible for the moderation.

[mitkat]

I rely on the active topics button definitely. I press it many times a day as I'm sure most of the moderating team does. If it's been a while however, I do look at the forum individually. For most users Caliban, I totally agree:

[Shepard]

I don't ever use it. I find it easier to moderate with the traditional format as I can go down the list of forums and also see flagged posts from the main page.

[sentinel]

TBH I don't think you are crediting the membership with a great deal of common sense (@Caliban). I hit the site everyday so AT is appropriate, and when I want do delve deeper in a particualr area (currently FaH for eg) then, naturally, I go through the topics of that sub forum. If people are daft and become part of an unintentional, self-inflicted form of info viral marketing (ie only reading popular bumps) then this is part of the natural wastage that one expects in the evolution of any forum.

[Lazarus Long]

Can we create 2 or 3 active topics buttons?

One for ALL (and ONLY) science, one for Social Science, Society and Philosophy, and one for Supp's noots and lifestyle. Maybe even a 4th that deals with just imminist, intros, FAQ''s Q&A's, news and organizational items and issues like the conference support, projects, member topics, essays, video and books we are responsible for.

If it can't be a drop down of options for Active topics then perhaps 4 distinct buttons in the primary menu.

BTW, I thought Spirituality & Religion was invisible on the active topics page too?

Religion and Spirituality can go under the Social Science, Society and Philosophy, as well as legislative analysis, politics, economic discussion etc.

This would give any visitor the ability to choose what area of interest without having the competition to be on top of the list interfering.

To be frank we are supposed to give more focus to science than we can with all the popular interest in somewhat superficial ideas. By separating the science topics into a distinct category (which we have already done in the forum areas) we can also create a means of keeping that focus more visible to those that share such interests.

4 separate Active topics categories would be better even if we had to give up having one global active topics button IMHO.

[brokenportal]

The different forms of active topics and no active topics options should change to cater to what is needed for different levels of member activity right?

The different forms are:

1. an active topics forum
2. multiple active topics forums
3. no active topics forum

The way in which they should be used in accordance to the proportion of active members is:

If there were no active topics section at a time like recently, where imminst didnt have many members looking to be active, then those few that did come by would be largely turned away by an inactive forums. Who wants to chat about something that goes nowhere fast right? The active topics function provides a semblance of activity to draw those people in.

That effort builds on itself until finally you have a ton of people interested in being active at imminst at which point you start bordering on the ability to erase the active topics section because all the forums will be active, but its not quite there yet and so you would be well off to create a couple of active topics sections to keep up with the over action in the active topics, its a balance between to much action and not enough action.

Then eventually we will have so much action that we can do away with all the active topics sections and people will be able to find topics that are active in any of the forums.

This is how it seems to me. Yes, no?

Edited by brokenportal, 07 November 2008 - 11:43 PM.

[rwac]

Thanks for telling me about the Active Topics button!

It's great when I'm feeling bored, need to find something to read.
Saves me the bother of clicking on all the various forums.

I might be on my way to being addicted!

[Matthias]

people who should be using "active topics" are those who visit the forum VERY frequently and have an interest in everything that goes on.

Exactly. Don't remove this button, pls. It's definitely very useful.

[Lazarus Long]

The Active Topic button, your gateway drug to being addicted to Imminst.

[Brainbox]

Hèhè, Caliban's brilliant viral marketing effort...

[lightowl]

I have suggested many solutions to these problems in the past. I have also offered my help to implement some of those features. If leaders is now interested in this, I would like the reiterate that intent. I am however not going to argue anymore. I have wasted enough time on that. If you want my programming skills to work for you, please let me know.

Edited by lightowl, 08 November 2008 - 03:51 PM.

[forever freedom]

Hey looks like a useful button. I didn't even know of its existence before.

[FunkOdyssey]

Look what you've done caliban! Just by raising awareness of the issue, you have spawned a new generation of Active Topics pushing zombies that will threaten us all!

[DukeNukem]

Is there another way to look at the forums other than Active Topics???!!! ;-)

In fact, my bookmark to ImmInst.com takes me directly into the Active Topics page -- I never see the home page on ImmInst.

[brokenportal]

Hence, to summarize,

1. draw in action for under active forums with a good active topics section, (that was done)

2. once the active topics gets too active for the active topics section, but not active enough to keep the forums active enough, then split the active topics section. (If you want that then vote on it here: http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=23857 )

3. once the two or three active topics section becomes too active, experiment with dropping them, because then all of the branches of the forums will be active topics sections.

[Shannon Vyff]

I certainly have missed important threads because they'd not been "kept up" in the three or so active topics page. I'd support taking active topics away, we are such a large organization --even when you are following a thread you are interested in you can miss it by only logging into "active topics". I've noticed in some very large forums where there are hundreds who participate daily you have to navigate into the subforums that you are interested in, they don't even have an "active topics" function.

[eternaltraveler]

i use active topic to skim, and click on individual forums I care about. The solution is multiple levels of active topics (overall active topics like we have now, intermediate which would be broad categories, then individual forums).

Removing functionality is always a terrible idea. Yes some people use it incorrectly, but we need ever increasing levels of functionality in order for our monkey brains to have a chance of surviving and contributing in the run up to the singularity.

[eternaltraveler]

"Active topics"- does it push your buttons?
I rely often on the active topics button
I rarely use it

where is the inbetween option? This reminds me of the surveys you take in college that are designed to prove that all college students are alcoholics.

How much alcohol do you drink in one week?

a. I don't drink alcohol
b. 1 drink
c. 2-50

Edited by elrond, 08 November 2008 - 09:28 PM.

[brokenportal]

I certainly have missed important threads because they'd not been "kept up" in the three or so active topics page. I'd support taking active topics away, we are such a large organization --even when you are following a thread you are interested in you can miss it by only logging into "active topics". I've noticed in some very large forums where there are hundreds who participate daily you have to navigate into the subforums that you are interested in, they don't even have an "active topics" function.

Dropping the active topics could be a good idea, but what about the reasoning in the 2. line of my last reply?

I dont think we are quite to that point that you state yet but that it is coming. Increasing levels of functionality, like Elrond says.

[caliban]

Just to clarify: This is not an initiative to remove the active topics button.
It is just to get people to think about why they use it and to alert those who rely on it a lot to the fact that in the forum layout and design the "active topics" button is not intended to be the default mode of orientation.

[senseix]

I like the active topics myself saves me time for the style of browsing i prefer to do.

[Live Forever]

I almost exclusively use active topics. It takes too much time to click through every forum to see if there are new posts.

[bacopa]

It's a whole lot easier to quickly navigate the forums with the active topics menu than looking up each individual topic in the forums pages, so yes I think we should keep the active topic menu I just wish it were many pages longer instead of three or four.

[Lazarus Long]

It's a whole lot easier to quickly navigate the forums with the active topics menu than looking up each individual topic in the forums pages, so yes I think we should keep the active topic menu I just wish it were many pages longer instead of three or four.

It will be for as long as you set the time for Devon.

If you look you at the bottom right hand side of the Active Topics page there is a drop down menu that asks;
Get active topics for:
and offers options up to a year. Frankly it gets a little absurd at that amount of time and it is better to focus on the specific forum for that topic and this filters out a lot of competing topics that might not be the primary focus of the moment.

There are other ways to search out posts and topics in a similar fashion when focusing on specific fora or individuals. When looking at a specific forum active topics can be selected for again in the bottom right hand corner with a set of drop down menu options that allow a variety of sorting/selecting options and an individuals posts and topics can always be searched for now through the person's profile tabs.

I have long lamented our poor search features but I should now comment that things have changed dramatically recently. We need to all explore all these new features and share a bit of our search practices that streamline finding obscure items because our options have improved a lot with the last upgrade.

[Lazarus Long]

So remember there are ways of filtering the Active topics page both by specific forum under the drop down at the top, SELECTIVE button AND at the bottom where you can filter for time and extend the search for days, weeks, months and up to a year with the Get active topics for: option.

Also when inside a specific forum area you can use the filter at the bottom right to sort by order in various ways, alphabetically, by time, order of posting, who posted, even when there were replies or if there are attachments. In fact you can sort by whether you started a topic or if you replied. You can sort by it being a hot topic or pinned etc. You can even set the options and keep them by checking the box that allows you to Remember these options.

So maybe it is time to run a scavenger hunt for some of the really good old forgotten topics and spend a little time cleaning up a lot of redundant threads by consolidating them.

I guess the truth about our community is that you almost never here one of us say: TMI

Well here is an acronym many of us should spread as a meme: NEI

Not Enough Information

Next time someone gives you some vague quip and expects your solemn agreement just say: NEI

[senseix]

Is there another way to look at the forums other than Active Topics???!!! ;-)

In fact, my bookmark to ImmInst.com takes me directly into the Active Topics page -- I never see the home page on ImmInst.

HAHAHAH that sounds like my setup:)