17 replies to this topic

[edward]

Pretty impressive stuff, add this to the potential of it being an AGE breaker (topic previously posted) and wow.

Mean lifespan increase of 37.8% is some pretty darn good curve squaring and 10.3% maximum is on par with mild CR (10%)

Published Sept 2008

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18728386


"increased mean life span by 37.8%, mean life span of last 10% survivors by 20.8%, and maximum life span by 2.8 months (+10.3%) "

[drmz]

Pretty impressive stuff, add this to the potential of it being an AGE breaker (topic previously posted) and wow.

Mean lifespan increase of 37.8% is some pretty darn good curve squaring and 10.3% maximum is on par with mild CR (10%)

Published Sept 2008

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18728386


"increased mean life span by 37.8%, mean life span of last 10% survivors by 20.8%, and maximum life span by 2.8 months (+10.3%) "

Interesting, but can anybody explain what sort of mouse and SHR mouse is ?

[StrangeAeons]

Out of curiosity, does anybody know if glucophage is being used in any of the Mprize contestants?

[kismet]

Edward you are slow *g* Take a look at our short discussion about the available data on metformin, where the same study is mentioned.
If you read the whole thread you will know why I am fascinated with metformin and finally want to see it tested in some healthy rodents.

I would like to see same effects in not hypertensive rats.

So do I.

Edited by kismet, 30 December 2008 - 02:24 PM.

[edward]

Edward you are slow *g* Take a look at our short discussion about the available data on metformin, where the same study is mentioned.
If you read the whole thread you will know why I am fascinated with metformin and finally want to see it tested in some healthy rodents.

I would like to see same effects in not hypertensive rats.

So do I.

Sorry I missed that discussion. I am fascinated by Metformin as well.

[fatboy]

- metformin blocks not only testosterone but also aldosterone ...

Great stuff for blood sugar control if you're metabolic syndrome like me. Brought my fasting glucose levels down from 115 mg/dl to 100 mg/dl. But it also put my testosterone levels in the toilet. That's not a good thing (for many reasons). If your Doc is on the ball like mine is then you will be on Androgel, Testim or testosterone injections in addition to the Metformin, statins, and ACE inhibitors. If not, you're screwed.

Welcome to the wonderful world of hormone replacement therapy. Hope you enjoy your stay (I know I am). You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.

[edward]

- metformin blocks not only testosterone but also aldosterone ...

Great stuff for blood sugar control if you're metabolic syndrome like me. Brought my fasting glucose levels down from 115 mg/dl to 100 mg/dl. But it also put my testosterone levels in the toilet. That's not a good thing (for many reasons). If your Doc is on the ball like mine is then you will be on Androgel, Testim or testosterone injections in addition to the Metformin, statins, and ACE inhibitors. If not, you're screwed.

Welcome to the wonderful world of hormone replacement therapy. Hope you enjoy your stay (I know I am). You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.

Did you have before and after measures done if so, if you don't mind posting them that would be great. Alternatively your test level may have been in the toilet before but it was only realized after Metformin use and the Metformin was blamed. Also did you go on a diet and/or lose weight at the same time, this can affect test levels.

[fatboy]

Brought my fasting glucose levels down from 115 mg/dl to 100 mg/dl. But it also put my testosterone levels in the toilet.

Did you have before and after measures done

Yup. Testosterone levels at the time of metabolic syndrome diagnosis were 370 ng/dl (ref. range 240-870). And yup, lost 60 pounds eating a super-clean diet (no flour, no sugar, no processed food, "if it's white it ain't right") and hitting the gym after diagnosis. Doc kept monitoring my testosterone every 3 months with all my other labs. 18 months into treatment T came back at 214 ng/dl. TRT was started immediately, no looking back.

Edit: By the way, this may be the best thing that ever happened to me. No more ED, insomnia is now just a bad memory, decades-long depression is gone, muscles coming back like the high school football player I once was, waist has gone from 40" to 37" (this is at the same weight after losing 60 lbs. - weight was lost pre TRT, steady at 205 lbs.), wife very happy to be married to a man again. The fact that my Doc monitored me all along for T indicates that he knew about both the correlation between metabolic syndrome and low-T, and, more importantly, the correlation between metformin and low-T. He's a good Doctor.

Edited by Michael, 19 July 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[yoyo]

SHRs are used as a model of ADHD.

[david ellis]

A side effect suffered by one out of three is nausea, one out of 20, suffers it severely enough to stop treatment. I figured something that made me sick was probably not good for me. YMMV.

[kismet]

A side effect suffered by one out of three is nausea, one out of 20, suffers it severely enough to stop treatment. I figured something that made me sick was probably not good for me. YMMV.

A definitely more significant side effect of metformin is death. Acute lactic acidosis at about the doses used to treat diabetic patients. Although it is said to occur only very rarely in patients with impaired kidney or liver function.
"Making you sick" is definitely not an argument for or against any kind of treatment, it's a drug and every drug has its side-effects. Even most supplements can have unpleasant or severe, even deadly, side effects in certain high-risk groups (by simple chance you can be in one of those "high-risk" groups due to individual variation).

[david ellis]

YMMV, Your mileage may vary. Just a statement from someone who decided to stop, thinking it was not smart to take something that made me sick rather than better.

[kismet]

YMMV, Your mileage may vary. Just a statement from someone who decided to stop, thinking it was not smart to take something that made me sick rather than better.

Yes, but I want you to reconsider (not necessarily) change your opinion. Zinc is known to produce stomach upset (although I've not experienced it myself) on an empty stomach, the same or similar can be said for several health foods and other supplements at different doses e.g. onions, garlic, chilis. Would you conclude they are unhealthy just because they can "make you sick"? What if we find a way to mitigate those side-effects (e.g. take that stuff with food)?
Niacin makes you flush, which is not that pleasant, is it unhealthy?
If the overall data were positive (e.g. life extension and safety proven in humans - which did not yet happen) would you still not take it?

If it made you sick, it's ok to stop, but it is not necessarily the best choice (the body can easily deceive us, and even if it was detrimental to one organ - let's say the stomach - the net effect could be very positive). Although, for now most healthy people should stay away from the substance in the first place.

[OneScrewLoose]

After having discovering I have celiac diease and other food intolerances that went undiagnosed for many painful years, I do not have anything that "makes me sick," especially to the stomach. It's your body telling you that it doesn't want it, and even if it is still good for you I doubt the excess acid production is good for you as well.

[fatboy]

A definitely more significant side effect of metformin is death. Acute lactic acidosis at about the doses used to treat diabetic patients. Although it is said to occur only very rarely in patients with impaired kidney or liver function.

When there are no pre-existing kidney problems, the risk of lactic acidosis with Metformin is almost non-existent. Even in the presence of heavy alcohol consumption. Cheers!

[kismet]

A definitely more significant side effect of metformin is death. Acute lactic acidosis at about the doses used to treat diabetic patients. Although it is said to occur only very rarely in patients with impaired kidney or liver function.

When there are no pre-existing kidney problems, the risk of lactic acidosis with Metformin is almost non-existent. Even in the presence of heavy alcohol consumption. Cheers!

I'm not aware of the mechanisms leading to lactic acidosis, does it affect basal lactate levels? What does happen if your body needs to use  anaerobic glycolysis for its energy needs (e.g. 400m sprint or other such activity)? Will metformin impair performance or could it even be dangerous?
What about sudden kidney or liver failure? Could it kill you because of your metformin intake, while someone not taking metformin would easily survive on dialysis/transplants?

[geddarkstorm]

I'm not aware of the mechanisms leading to lactic acidosis, does it affect basal lactate levels? What does happen if your body needs to use anaerobic glycolysis for its energy needs (e.g. 400m sprint or other such activity)? Will metformin impair performance or could it even be dangerous?
What about sudden kidney or liver failure? Could it kill you because of your metformin intake, while someone not taking metformin would easily survive on dialysis/transplants?

This study, looking at metformin and exercise in healthy males suggests that it does not affect lactate production during strenuous activity - so it may be safe for that.

On the other hand, here are a few case reports of lactate acidosis in people taking metformin who did not have renal failure or other pathologies [1,2,3,4]. Ironically, lactate acidoses induces renal failure later down the road too.

Looking at this another way, here's a study that shows an increase of lactate in patients given metformin, but it wasn't significant. On the other hand, in a perfused rat liver, a closed system, metformin significantly increased lactate, according to its mechanism of stimulating flux of glucose to lactate, preventing lactate turn over back into glucose (gluconeogenesis), and blocking liver uptake of lactate, all of which can increase lactate levels in cells and serum. Apparently, generally the body can deal with this fine, which means metformin is generally safe, even under conditions of exercise. These cases and its mechanism of action, are interesting though, and something to keep in mind; after all, the life span increasing ability has only been seen with hypertension mice and female transgenic HER-2/neu mice, which may mean it's a good drug candidate for the treatment of such. However, both types of mice did not live as long as, or only matched, the normal life span of wild type laboratory mice, even with metformin (half the life span of a normal mouse for the HER-2/neu mice with metformin, and about the same life span of a normal mouse for the SHR mice with metformin).

Edited by Michael, 19 July 2012 - 11:52 AM.