28 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

Okay I am basically adding a plethora of new supplements starting january first 2009. Please tell me what you think of these in terms of life extension/anti-aging benefits.

Morning.

20 minutes before eating breakfast:
Fish oil combo pill.
250 mg micronized resveretrol (please tell me if I need more time on an empty stomach to allow absorption factors.)

With breakfast:
Multivitamin formula from Solgar.
Additional supplemental zinc in the form of picolinate (testosterone serum balance)
Cayenne pepper extract (circulatory health)
Saint johns wort extract from natures answer 300 mg (mood enhancement)

Half hour after eating
2 aplha lipoic acid capsules approximating 600 mgs

20 minutes later:
1 regular resveretrol capsule, non micronized. 150 mg

Directly before lunch take:
tribulus stacked with DHEA (increased testosterone boost for work outs)

Half hour later eat lunch, with lunch take:
DNA/RNA tablets (nucleic cellular health)
One tablespoon of Hyularanic acid (joint and connective tissues)

approximately 2 hours later take
1 capsule of The new Astral fruit extract from Revgenetics (telomere lengthening)

with dinner take:
one capsule Ocean pacifica silica (collegen sustainence)
And one capsule Zinc with chelated copper (theory is silica helps in the absorption of these other minerals)

within an hour or two before bed take:
One or two 3 mg melatonin capsules.

Now on the nootropic side of it I might add a new mood/cognitive enhancer called 'relagen' which I outlined in a post in the nootropics forum, maybe even in place of saint johns wort. Other add ons/subtractions? Opinions? Thanks.

Edited by TheFountain, 31 December 2008 - 02:09 PM.

[TheFountain]

No comments? Is my regimen that lame?

[wayside]

No comments? Is my regimen that lame?

It's the holidays, your post wasn't even up a day. Relax.

I count 9 separate times during the day you are taking stuff. Do you think you will be able to stick to this long term? I couldn't; I only take stuff twice a day and I don't always manage to do that every day.

That much melatonin wipes me out and leaves me groggy the next day.

You might consider adding extra vitamin D, subject to having your levels tested.

[ajnast4r]

you didnt list the amounts, but im guessing youre taking a lot of zinc..

make sure you have your male (and female) hormones monitored with bloodwork when taking DHEA... ive seen reports of decreased test and increased estrogen(s)

consider switching to perika st johns wort, it will be considerably more effective than any other brand.

dna/rna is a waste, imo.

600mg is a lot of lipoic acid if youre not diabetic

take your fishoil with food

[TheFountain]

you didnt list the amounts, but im guessing youre taking a lot of zinc..

make sure you have your male (and female) hormones monitored with bloodwork when taking DHEA... ive seen reports of decreased test and increased estrogen(s)

consider switching to perika st johns wort, it will be considerably more effective than any other brand.

dna/rna is a waste, imo.

600mg is a lot of lipoic acid if youre not diabetic

take your fishoil with food

What is your basis for claiming DNA/RNA is a waste? Can you go into detail? It really doesn't help to just say waste without explaining. Also, the reason I am taking the fishoil with the resveratrol is that I read that it makes a good delivery system for the latter, helping to pass the blood/brain barrier. And where DHEA is concerned, I wonder if it is diet that contributes to what hormones it will help trigger most. A diet high in soy products might yield higher estrogen, whereas a moderate calorie/protein/fat diet might do the opposite. Is the perika brand difficult to obtain in family health outlets? I tried to list the right amounts of key things, like resveratrol, but I was in a rush at the time, I will revisit it later.

Edited by TheFountain, 01 January 2009 - 04:12 PM.

[TheFountain]

No comments? Is my regimen that lame?

It's the holidays, your post wasn't even up a day. Relax.

I count 9 separate times during the day you are taking stuff. Do you think you will be able to stick to this long term? I couldn't; I only take stuff twice a day and I don't always manage to do that every day.

That much melatonin wipes me out and leaves me groggy the next day.

You might consider adding extra vitamin D, subject to having your levels tested.

Can you explain the vitamin D thing in greater detail? I mean, increase it for what purpose specifically? To aid in the absorption of something? Do I think I can stick to it long term? Absolutely! I wouldn't be a part of this if I didn't.

Edited by TheFountain, 01 January 2009 - 04:14 PM.

[wayside]

Can you explain the vitamin D thing in greater detail? I mean, increase it for what purpose specifically? To aid in the absorption of something? Do I think I can stick to it long term? Absolutely! I wouldn't be a part of this if I didn't.

Evidence is accumulating that vitamin D is something of a magic bullet. For example, there are studies that show that taking adequate amounts of vitamin D3 can reduce occurrence many kinds of cancer by up to 75%. Personally, I've gotten sick much less frequently since I got my levels up. Search around the forum, there is a lot of info here on vitamin D.

[TheFountain]

Can you explain the vitamin D thing in greater detail? I mean, increase it for what purpose specifically? To aid in the absorption of something? Do I think I can stick to it long term? Absolutely! I wouldn't be a part of this if I didn't.

Evidence is accumulating that vitamin D is something of a magic bullet. For example, there are studies that show that taking adequate amounts of vitamin D3 can reduce occurrence many kinds of cancer by up to 75%. Personally, I've gotten sick much less frequently since I got my levels up. Search around the forum, there is a lot of info here on vitamin D.

It's funny because the day after I read this my mother randomly said to me out of no where 'what you should be taking is vitamin D because you get too little sun'. So I ran out and grabbed a cheap supplement containing 400 IU of vitamin D3. I was actually already getting 100% daily recommended value in my multi-vitamin supplement. How over the mark is still within safety limits? 200% 300%? I would like to take as much as possible.

The one thing that concerns me however is potential toxicity that can actually raise the risk of osteoporosis rather than decrease it. What is the upper limit of most adult males in healthy weight ranges? 2000 IU at 50 mcg?

Edited by TheFountain, 05 January 2009 - 03:52 PM.

[wayside]

It's funny because the day after I read this my mother randomly said to me out of no where 'what you should be taking is vitamin D because you get too little sun'. So I ran out and grabbed a cheap supplement containing 400 IU of vitamin D3. I was actually already getting 100% daily recommended value in my multi-vitamin supplement. How over the mark is still within safety limits? 200% 300%? I would like to take as much as possible.

The one thing that concerns me however is potential toxicity that can actually raise the risk of osteoporosis rather than decrease it. What is the upper limit of most adult males in healthy weight ranges? 2000 IU at 50 mcg?

There is little to no risk of toxicity until you get into doses of 50,000+ IU per day.

I personally take 4000-5000 IU/day.

People vary a lot in their response though, so really you should get your levels tested and adjust your dosage so you are in the 50-60 ng/ml.

Am I Vitamin D Deficient?
The Truth About Vitamin D Toxicity

[TheFountain]

It's funny because the day after I read this my mother randomly said to me out of no where 'what you should be taking is vitamin D because you get too little sun'. So I ran out and grabbed a cheap supplement containing 400 IU of vitamin D3. I was actually already getting 100% daily recommended value in my multi-vitamin supplement. How over the mark is still within safety limits? 200% 300%? I would like to take as much as possible.

The one thing that concerns me however is potential toxicity that can actually raise the risk of osteoporosis rather than decrease it. What is the upper limit of most adult males in healthy weight ranges? 2000 IU at 50 mcg?

There is little to no risk of toxicity until you get into doses of 50,000+ IU per day.

I personally take 4000-5000 IU/day.

People vary a lot in their response though, so really you should get your levels tested and adjust your dosage so you are in the 50-60 ng/ml.

Am I Vitamin D Deficient?
The Truth About Vitamin D Toxicity

Well i've definitely been reading the wrong medical journals then. Because most of what I saw has been implying the upper limit of daily intake being 2000 IU at 50 mcgs. I have also read, although the writer could not substantiate it, that higher intakes of vitamin D can result in heart abnormalities. Do you no anything about this?

Edited by TheFountain, 07 January 2009 - 03:38 PM.

[pycnogenol]

It's funny because the day after I read this my mother randomly said to me out of no where 'what you should be taking is vitamin D because you get too little sun'. So I ran out and grabbed a cheap supplement containing 400 IU of vitamin D3. I was actually already getting 100% daily recommended value in my multi-vitamin supplement. How over the mark is still within safety limits? 200% 300%? I would like to take as much as possible.

The one thing that concerns me however is potential toxicity that can actually raise the risk of osteoporosis rather than decrease it. What is the upper limit of most adult males in healthy weight ranges? 2000 IU at 50 mcg?

There is little to no risk of toxicity until you get into doses of 50,000+ IU per day.

I personally take 4000-5000 IU/day.

People vary a lot in their response though, so really you should get your levels tested and adjust your dosage so you are in the 50-60 ng/ml.

Am I Vitamin D Deficient?
The Truth About Vitamin D Toxicity

Well i've definitely been reading the wrong medical journals then. Because most of what I saw has been implying the upper limit of daily intake being 2000 IU at 50 mcgs. I have also read, although the writer could not substantiate it, that higher intakes of vitamin D can result in heart abnormalities. Do you no anything about this?

If you're going to take a vitamin D supplement -- get a blood test. It's the only way to go. I take 5400 IU of vitamin D-3 and I'm at 50 nanograms per milliliter (ng/mL) and will be going up to 5800 IU pretty soon.

I do love blood tests!

TheFountain: you do go to a doctor on a regular basis, do you not? Yes? No? They really come in handy, especially when you're taking various supplements/nootropics/etc.

Edited by pycnogenol, 07 January 2009 - 05:07 PM.

[suspire]

It's funny because the day after I read this my mother randomly said to me out of no where 'what you should be taking is vitamin D because you get too little sun'. So I ran out and grabbed a cheap supplement containing 400 IU of vitamin D3. I was actually already getting 100% daily recommended value in my multi-vitamin supplement. How over the mark is still within safety limits? 200% 300%? I would like to take as much as possible.

The one thing that concerns me however is potential toxicity that can actually raise the risk of osteoporosis rather than decrease it. What is the upper limit of most adult males in healthy weight ranges? 2000 IU at 50 mcg?

There is little to no risk of toxicity until you get into doses of 50,000+ IU per day.

I personally take 4000-5000 IU/day.

People vary a lot in their response though, so really you should get your levels tested and adjust your dosage so you are in the 50-60 ng/ml.

Am I Vitamin D Deficient?
The Truth About Vitamin D Toxicity

Well i've definitely been reading the wrong medical journals then. Because most of what I saw has been implying the upper limit of daily intake being 2000 IU at 50 mcgs. I have also read, although the writer could not substantiate it, that higher intakes of vitamin D can result in heart abnormalities. Do you no anything about this?

You should read Dr. William Davis's blog: http://heartscanblog...label/vitamin D

I sent you to all his Vitamin D posts (except his one on toxicity, which you can find on the left hand side of the blog). He writes extensively about Vitamin D and its useage in the field, with his heart patients over the last several years. Pretty informative stuff and should answer a number of your questions on Vitamin D.

[TheFountain]

It's funny because the day after I read this my mother randomly said to me out of no where 'what you should be taking is vitamin D because you get too little sun'. So I ran out and grabbed a cheap supplement containing 400 IU of vitamin D3. I was actually already getting 100% daily recommended value in my multi-vitamin supplement. How over the mark is still within safety limits? 200% 300%? I would like to take as much as possible.

The one thing that concerns me however is potential toxicity that can actually raise the risk of osteoporosis rather than decrease it. What is the upper limit of most adult males in healthy weight ranges? 2000 IU at 50 mcg?

There is little to no risk of toxicity until you get into doses of 50,000+ IU per day.

I personally take 4000-5000 IU/day.

People vary a lot in their response though, so really you should get your levels tested and adjust your dosage so you are in the 50-60 ng/ml.

Am I Vitamin D Deficient?
The Truth About Vitamin D Toxicity

Well i've definitely been reading the wrong medical journals then. Because most of what I saw has been implying the upper limit of daily intake being 2000 IU at 50 mcgs. I have also read, although the writer could not substantiate it, that higher intakes of vitamin D can result in heart abnormalities. Do you no anything about this?

If you're going to take a vitamin D supplement -- get a blood test. It's the only way to go. I take 5400 IU of vitamin D-3 and I'm at 50 nanograms per milliliter (ng/mL) and will be going up to 5800 IU pretty soon.

I do love blood tests!

TheFountain: you do go to a doctor on a regular basis, do you not? Yes? No? They really come in handy, especially when you're taking various supplements/nootropics/etc.

I didn't think it was necessary to see one outside of getting an annual physical since I am still in my early 20s and every time I have requested any sort of extraneous testing they act as if I am asking too much of them. But currently I am just under 1000 IUs and will perhaps look into blood testing to see what my levels are. If it were my choice and I could afford it I would go to the same life extension clinic ray kurzweil does.

[TheFountain]

It's funny because the day after I read this my mother randomly said to me out of no where 'what you should be taking is vitamin D because you get too little sun'. So I ran out and grabbed a cheap supplement containing 400 IU of vitamin D3. I was actually already getting 100% daily recommended value in my multi-vitamin supplement. How over the mark is still within safety limits? 200% 300%? I would like to take as much as possible.

The one thing that concerns me however is potential toxicity that can actually raise the risk of osteoporosis rather than decrease it. What is the upper limit of most adult males in healthy weight ranges? 2000 IU at 50 mcg?

There is little to no risk of toxicity until you get into doses of 50,000+ IU per day.

I personally take 4000-5000 IU/day.

People vary a lot in their response though, so really you should get your levels tested and adjust your dosage so you are in the 50-60 ng/ml.

Am I Vitamin D Deficient?
The Truth About Vitamin D Toxicity

Well i've definitely been reading the wrong medical journals then. Because most of what I saw has been implying the upper limit of daily intake being 2000 IU at 50 mcgs. I have also read, although the writer could not substantiate it, that higher intakes of vitamin D can result in heart abnormalities. Do you no anything about this?

You should read Dr. William Davis's blog: http://heartscanblog...label/vitamin D

I sent you to all his Vitamin D posts (except his one on toxicity, which you can find on the left hand side of the blog). He writes extensively about Vitamin D and its useage in the field, with his heart patients over the last several years. Pretty informative stuff and should answer a number of your questions on Vitamin D.

Thank you, this is invaluable information. I will read it, study it, and apply whatever is most beneficial of it.

[TheFountain]

In addition to the below revised regimen I have recently added:

L-Arginine+ L-Ornithine (as an anabolic/HGH releaser) Pharmacutical grade ajipure, 500 mgs once about an hour prior to exercises on exercise days.
Biosil (orthosilicic acid) 5 mg Twice daily with meal (note: I am still not sure whether or not the pill or the liquid form of this is more bioavailable, but I am experimenting with both).
Vitamin D3 800 I.U Once daily with a meal.
Extra Vitamin C between 500 and 1000 mgs daily, depending on my needs.

On the nootropics side I added
A synergistic blend of:
Scullcap
Wood Betony
Black Cohosh
Hops
Valerian
Cayenne pepper
equaling 860 mgs

Ginko Biloba Liquid extract, 5 drops daily
Huperzine-A standardized 50 mcgs, 2-3 times daily as needed
Valerian root, 475 mgs 1-2 times daily at bed time or when feeling stressed.

Okay I am basically adding a plethora of new supplements starting january first 2009. Please tell me what you think of these in terms of life extension/anti-aging benefits.

Morning.

20 minutes before eating breakfast:
Fish oil combo pill.
250 mg micronized resveretrol (please tell me if I need more time on an empty stomach to allow absorption factors.)

With breakfast:
Multivitamin formula from Solgar.
Additional supplemental zinc in the form of picolinate (testosterone serum balance)
Cayenne pepper extract (circulatory health)
Saint johns wort extract from natures answer 300 mg (mood enhancement)

Half hour after eating
2 aplha lipoic acid capsules approximating 600 mgs

20 minutes later:
1 regular resveretrol capsule, non micronized. 150 mg

Directly before lunch take:
tribulus stacked with DHEA (increased testosterone boost for work outs)

Half hour later eat lunch, with lunch take:
DNA/RNA tablets (nucleic cellular health)
One tablespoon of Hyularanic acid (joint and connective tissues)

approximately 2 hours later take
1 capsule of The new Astral fruit extract from Revgenetics (telomere lengthening)

with dinner take:
one capsule Ocean pacifica silica (collegen sustainence)
And one capsule Zinc with chelated copper (theory is silica helps in the absorption of these other minerals)

within an hour or two before bed take:
One or two 3 mg melatonin capsules.

Now on the nootropic side of it I might add a new mood/cognitive enhancer called 'relagen' which I outlined in a post in the nootropics forum, maybe even in place of saint johns wort. Other add ons/subtractions? Opinions? Thanks.

Edited by TheFountain, 31 January 2009 - 02:05 PM.

[TheFountain]

Update:
I just added Glucosamine 1000-2000 mg
and Green tea extract 500 mg

[TheFountain]

Edit on the Ginko Biloba, I am actually taking one vial daily with huperzine-A which consists of about 25 drops. Why I said 5 drops is beyond me.

Edited by TheFountain, 05 February 2009 - 11:04 PM.

[niner]

Biosil (orthosilicic acid) 5 mg Twice daily with meal (note: I am still not sure whether or not the pill or the liquid form of this is more bioavailable, but I am experimenting with both).
Vitamin D3 800 I.U Once daily with a meal.
Extra Vitamin C between 500 and 1000 mgs daily, depending on my needs.

Biosil is good stuff; I use 5 drops/day of the liquid. I used to use the pills, but the liquid is way cheaper. Either one should be sufficiently bioavailable. This is a silica supplement with actual data behind it, which is good. If you're taking this, you can probably drop the ocean pacifica silica.

Your vitamin D should be an oil-based formulation in a gelcap. According to William Davis, the dry formulations just don't get your blood levels up. They might if you took them with enough lipids, but most people probably don't. 800 IU is probably WAY too little for you, if you don't get sun. I'm taking ~4000IU/d, will adjust up or down depending on my next test.

Lipoic acid after breakfast? It's absorbed better on an empty stomach. It would be better to combine the resveratrol doses, and take them all at once. The theory behind this is that attaining a blood level high enough to throw the genetic switches is better than spreading it out, but never hitting the effective level. Given the low doses you are taking, I would definitely combine. It's easier to keep to a regimen that has fewer dosings.

[TheFountain]

Biosil (orthosilicic acid) 5 mg Twice daily with meal (note: I am still not sure whether or not the pill or the liquid form of this is more bioavailable, but I am experimenting with both).
Vitamin D3 800 I.U Once daily with a meal.
Extra Vitamin C between 500 and 1000 mgs daily, depending on my needs.

Biosil is good stuff; I use 5 drops/day of the liquid. I used to use the pills, but the liquid is way cheaper. Either one should be sufficiently bioavailable. This is a silica supplement with actual data behind it, which is good. If you're taking this, you can probably drop the ocean pacifica silica.

Your vitamin D should be an oil-based formulation in a gelcap. According to William Davis, the dry formulations just don't get your blood levels up. They might if you took them with enough lipids, but most people probably don't. 800 IU is probably WAY too little for you, if you don't get sun. I'm taking ~4000IU/d, will adjust up or down depending on my next test.

Lipoic acid after breakfast? It's absorbed better on an empty stomach. It would be better to combine the resveratrol doses, and take them all at once. The theory behind this is that attaining a blood level high enough to throw the genetic switches is better than spreading it out, but never hitting the effective level. Given the low doses you are taking, I would definitely combine. It's easier to keep to a regimen that has fewer dosings.

I am assuming that the fish oil+my fairly high fat intake would account for the lipids necessary to make several supplements more bioavailable, including Resveratrol and Vitamin D, currently taken in dry form, as I could afford nothing else at the moment, but I plan to invest in some gelcaps next paycheck. Yes, the biosil I am taking currently for a couple of weeks is in the form of tiny gobulars in a capsule. Then I will either begin a full fledged liquid supplementation of it, or alternate between this and the liquid form, which I could also take with hyaluronic acid (I wonder how these two would work in a liquid solution). I have dropped the inferior OP silica as anything with science behind it is preferrable to anecdotal supplementation. As far as the resveratrol goes, I am now taking 600 mgs of R300 (2 capsules) in the evening within an hour after eating dinner, along with the 'extreme omega' 1,200 mgs fish oil. Do you recommend me taking more resveratrol than this?

Edited by TheFountain, 07 February 2009 - 08:42 PM.

[TheFountain]

On the L-Arginine+ L-Ornithine. I added an extra dosage and altered my method of supplementation. I now take it once upon waking, on an empty stomach, about 30 minutes prior to food intake, and once at 'bedtime' on a somewhat empty stomach.

[kismet]

Update:
I just added Glucosamine 1000-2000 mg

No. You should take the correct glucosamine formulation at the correct dose or cut it out. Use 1500mg glucosamine sulphate (rottapharm or another renown formulation preferred).

Vitamin D dry tabs are vastly inferior to oil based formulations it seems, even if taken with oil you never know how much you can absorb.

[torrential]

TheFountain,

For an easy and cheap vitamin D test that also helps capital "S" Science, check out the Vitamin D Action folks:

http://www.grassrootshealth.org/

I also like Dr. Davis' blog. The Whole Health Source blog is worthy, too:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/

Both have been recommended and are read by other members but it can't hurt to mention them again.

[TheFountain]

Update:
I just added Glucosamine 1000-2000 mg

No. You should take the correct glucosamine formulation at the correct dose or cut it out. Use 1500mg glucosamine sulphate (rottapharm or another renown formulation preferred).

Vitamin D dry tabs are vastly inferior to oil based formulations it seems, even if taken with oil you never know how much you can absorb.

Is there something wrong with Glucosamine Hydrochloride? It is considered on par with G-Sulfate, but apparently cheaper to manufacture. Point me to any and all studies indicating otherwise please. Thanks.

[TheFountain]

TheFountain,

For an easy and cheap vitamin D test that also helps capital "S" Science, check out the Vitamin D Action folks:

http://www.grassrootshealth.org/

I also like Dr. Davis' blog. The Whole Health Source blog is worthy, too:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/

Both have been recommended and are read by other members but it can't hurt to mention them again.

Thank you. And as I said, I plan to add a vitamin D gel form soon. Just waiting to get rid of the remaining stock of dry tablets. Then I will invest in gels.

[kismet]

Update:
I just added Glucosamine 1000-2000 mg

No. You should take the correct glucosamine formulation at the correct dose or cut it out. Use 1500mg glucosamine sulphate (rottapharm or another renown formulation preferred).

Vitamin D dry tabs are vastly inferior to oil based formulations it seems, even if taken with oil you never know how much you can absorb.

Is there something wrong with Glucosamine Hydrochloride? It is considered on par with G-Sulfate, but apparently cheaper to manufacture. Point me to any and all studies indicating otherwise please. Thanks.

Well, the biggest study performed to date (GAIT), indicates that it's not better than placebo. [1] Every other positive study was performed using sulphate (and most are sponsored by rottapharm). [2][3] Maybe absorption is to blame (yeah, I know they tested horses) [4]

[1] Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulfate, and the Two in Combination for Painful Knee Osteoarthritis. Volume 354:795-808. February 23, 2006 Full: “Glucosamine/chondroitin Arthritis Intervention Trial (GAIT)”
http://content.nejm....tract/354/8/795
[2]Glucosamine Sulfate Use and Delay of Progression of Knee Osteoarthritis 
A 3-Year, Randomized, Placebo-Controlled, Double-blind Study 
Karel Pavelká, MD, PhD; Jindriska Gatterová, MD; Marta Olejarová, MD; Stanislav Machacek, MD; Giampaolo Giacovelli, PhD; Lucio C. Rovati, MD 
Arch Intern Med. 2002;162:2113-2123.
[3] Lancet. 2001 Jan 27;357(9252):251-6. Long-term effects of glucosamine sulphate on osteoarthritis progression: a randomised, placebo-controlled clinical trial.
Reginster JY, Deroisy R, Rovati LC, Lee RL, Lejeune E, Bruyere O, Giacovelli G, Henrotin Y, Dacre JE, Gossett C. 
[4] Osteoarthritis Cartilage. 2008 Sep;16(9):973-9. Epub 2008 Mar 4.
Comparison of pharmacokinetics of glucosamine and synovial fluid levels following administration of glucosamine sulphate or glucosamine hydrochloride.
Meulyzer M, Vachon P, Beaudry F, Vinardell T, Richard H, Beauchamp G, Laverty S.

Edited by kismet, 22 February 2009 - 12:56 PM.

[TheFountain]

Update:
I just added Glucosamine 1000-2000 mg

No. You should take the correct glucosamine formulation at the correct dose or cut it out. Use 1500mg glucosamine sulphate (rottapharm or another renown formulation preferred).

Vitamin D dry tabs are vastly inferior to oil based formulations it seems, even if taken with oil you never know how much you can absorb.

Is there something wrong with Glucosamine Hydrochloride? It is considered on par with G-Sulfate, but apparently cheaper to manufacture. Point me to any and all studies indicating otherwise please. Thanks.

Well, the biggest study performed to date (GAIT), indicates that it's not better than placebo. [1] Every other positive study was performed using sulphate (and most are sponsored by rottapharm). [2][3] Maybe absorption is to blame (yeah, I know they tested horses) [4]

[1] Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulfate, and the Two in Combination for Painful Knee Osteoarthritis. Volume 354:795-808. February 23, 2006 Full: “Glucosamine/chondroitin Arthritis Intervention Trial (GAIT)”
http://content.nejm....tract/354/8/795
[2]Glucosamine Sulfate Use and Delay of Progression of Knee Osteoarthritis
A 3-Year, Randomized, Placebo-Controlled, Double-blind Study
Karel Pavelká, MD, PhD; Jindriska Gatterová, MD; Marta Olejarová, MD; Stanislav Machacek, MD; Giampaolo Giacovelli, PhD; Lucio C. Rovati, MD
Arch Intern Med. 2002;162:2113-2123.
[3] Lancet. 2001 Jan 27;357(9252):251-6. Long-term effects of glucosamine sulphate on osteoarthritis progression: a randomised, placebo-controlled clinical trial.
Reginster JY, Deroisy R, Rovati LC, Lee RL, Lejeune E, Bruyere O, Giacovelli G, Henrotin Y, Dacre JE, Gossett C.
[4] Osteoarthritis Cartilage. 2008 Sep;16(9):973-9. Epub 2008 Mar 4.
Comparison of pharmacokinetics of glucosamine and synovial fluid levels following administration of glucosamine sulphate or glucosamine hydrochloride.
Meulyzer M, Vachon P, Beaudry F, Vinardell T, Richard H, Beauchamp G, Laverty S.

mmm I think the sodium chondroitin may have somehow degraded the bioavailability of the Glucosamine in the study using hydrochloride. But that is just a blank guess. I will have to see if there is any effect on my joints relative to yoga and other exercises, then try the widely used form of glucosamine on a trial basis. I just don't understand why Glucosamine Sulfate is so damn expensive.

[kismet]

mmm I think the sodium chondroitin may have somehow degraded the bioavailability of the Glucosamine in the study using hydrochloride. But that is just a blank guess. I will have to see if there is any effect on my joints relative to yoga and other exercises, then try the widely used form of glucosamine on a trial basis. I just don't understand why Glucosamine Sulfate is so damn expensive.

The study had a placebo, glucosamine, glucosamine+chondroiting group. The glucosamine+chondroitin group had a similar response to glucosamine alone (actually it was marginally and non-significantly better). I am aware of all the study's shortcomings, but the results do not lie. First and foremost we should blame hydrochloride. You should be weary of any "effect" on your joints, the GAIT noted an extraordinarily strong placebo response, which is not that unusual (placebos are known to affect pain quite a lot).

Glucosamine sulphate isn't that expensive anyway.

Edited by kismet, 23 February 2009 - 10:30 PM.

[TheFountain]

Glucosamine sulphate isn't that expensive anyway.

It is when you are already on a 250$ monthly regimen. Another 18$ for a month supply of GLucosamine seems superfluous an expense. If it was around 8-10$ it wouldn't be as much of a tax.

[TheFountain]

Glucosamine sulphate isn't that expensive anyway.

It is when you are already on a 250$ monthly regimen. Another 18$ for a month supply of GLucosamine seems superfluous an expense. If it was around 8-10$ it wouldn't be as much of a tax.

Thank goodness I have since discovered Iherb.