66 replies to this topic

[3VeRL0ng]

Ok, so before I go and get Adderall prescribed to me right away, I figured it would be smart to post on here first, so I'll know what I am about to get myself into. Part of me feels a bit confident taking a stimulant drug to combat my ADD, but a part of me is somewhat hesitant. In a way, I have had sort of a "preview" of what using an amphetamine-drug would feel like, given the fact that I had used a supplement before (E3Live) that contained PEA, which they coined "the molecule of love," and gave me incredible focus that I could not believe... but then soon faded away. But now since I've been blessed to have found & be a part of Imminst, I was able to look up and learn how PEA is a very, very short-lived version of amphetamine (anyone know how to extend it's half-life by the way? I don't). So IF I do feel the same while on Adderall, or another amphetamine-drug I may soon be taking (although I'm aiming towards Adderall right now), it may be the answer I'm looking for... but I know the drug's addicting, I know it may build tolerance, and who knows, it just may not work, which is why part of me is on the hesitant-side about taking it. But if it DOES happen to work for me, what is it's half-life usually? when does a tolerance build up? And if so, is there a way to keep a tolerance building, say by, not using it everyday? I know they aren't the best kind of drugs to be taking, but I know for a fact that I need something designed to improve my attention, given that I've worked-out and exercised my heart out during certain semesters in college, and still felt like I needed additional focus in school (at the time I wasn't one who would consider taking these type of meds, given that I didn't want to have to rely on that sort of thing at the time, but I'm beginning to wonder if my brain had indeed been begging for it).

But being one who has experimented with a lot of supplements, some to try and put my attention problems to an end, to my surprise the only two that have ever done justice for me were the E3Live (for about a day, lol) and to my surprise & accidentally (since I couldn't find any pure maca supplements at the time) a maca supplement blended with horny goat weed, or the other way around I guess (this one in particular). I actually was AMAZED how well this worked for me, though the feeling only lasted for about a month, but my memory was better, mood lifted, libido... yeah, that definitely was improved. But I know by now that it definitely was the HGW, not the maca, which induced this well-being, focused feeling, since I don't receive this sense of focus just by taking maca alone. But I am actually very, very curious now as to how HGW actually effects the brain, what it's mechanism of actions are. Hopefully I can achieve this sense of well-being and focus with a stimulant. By the way, I am doing my hardest to try and seek out the best treatment for my ADD, in Dr. Amen's book "Healing ADD," I have realized that I fall under the Inattentive & Overfocused ADD-Types, Inattentive being the type best treated with stimulants, while Overfocused is best treated with SSRI's, which I never had really much success with by the way. But Effexor (an SNRI) is one of the drugs to combat the overfocused type, has anyone heard of it being used to treat ADD? But before I get into anything like that, my heart... or I guess my brain, is saying to go with a stimulant first to see how that works out. Sorry if I made this type of post a little too lengthy, it just felt right to elaborate a little to get my situation out on paper.

[lynx]

The way to minimize complicatiions with any psychoactive drug is achieve steady state delivery and keep the dose as low as possible.

So patches are good, long acting versions good and probably Vyvanse is best. I have no experience with Vyvanse, but it looks promising on paper and the feedback is really positive.

Plus, Vyvanse has none of the nasty L-form amphetamine that Adderall does that is responsible for the peripheral effects.

[3VeRL0ng]

Hmm... Lisdexamfetamine may be a safer & smarter alternative, but is it's half-life really only less than an hour? If that's the case, it unfortunately won't be able to cut it for me. Could anyone confirm on this? Has anyone had any positive experiences/success with it?

[lynx]

Vyvanse is designed to be released slowly by enzymatic cleavage of the lysine from the dex. It takes place slowly and predicatably within the body. Read up about it.

[StrangeAeons]

I haven't studied ADD in tremendous detail, though I allegedly have it based on certain diagnostic tests;
Here's a few ideas to try if others fail.
Eli Lilly now has Strattera, a selective norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.
Hopefully in a few years Indevus pharmaceuticals will release Dihydrexidine, a dopamine agonist preferentially targeting D1 receptors.
Modafinil is helpful with both alertness and motivation, and is a better/cleaner alternative to amps/conventional stims
There isn't a whole lot of evidence to it, but you might get benefit from a reversible inhibitor of MAO-A suck as Manerix (moclobemide) whic you can get from Canada. This might help if there's an underlying mood disorder, but it also appears to act on serotonin and NE, albeit in a different manner than Effexor.

[bgwithadd]

First, don't take straterra unless you have to. It's crap. Also, MAO-I is pretty useless, as well. This goes against what everyone seems to think but I am pretty sure dopamine doesn't do jack shit, plain and simple. Norepinephrine helps (ie from wellbutrin), and I am pretty sure it's NE + reversing DAT that makes amphetamine do its magic (both of these things affect the HCN channel I mentioned in another thread). I think dopamine might help, but only in an indirect way. I can bomb my heart with l-dopa until I have all the dopamine it can take, but it doens't improve my symptoms in the least. For parkinsons or alzheimers, sure, but I think it's of much less use than anyone thinks with ADD.

Second, deprenyl will extend the halflife of PEA. I was against PEA before and was worried about neurotoxicity, but reading a lot it turns out people with ADD have much lower levels of PEA than normal. Perhaps part of the issue is too much MAO-B? In one study I saw they bombed some rats with deprenyl (human equivalent of several hundred mgs) and it increased the halflife of PEA to 10 days. 10 days! On several hundred mg of deprenyl a day I am pretty sure you would die, though. On the other hand, it seems that you can take at least 20, maybe 40 mg of deprenyl before you get any MAO-A inhibition. Keep in mind, too, that having some inhibition is not necessarily bad. You don't instantly go into death from a sip of aged wine mode. Unfortunately, it's not easy to test mao-a danger levels easily and safely so it's difficult to tell just how much MAO-B inhibition you can get safely. Dopamine is destroyed by both MAO types, so it's not really a big issue in MAO-B inbition.

Anyone know if deprenyl extends the halflife of amphetamines? Last night I simply could not sleep and I felt kind of euphoric 14 hours after taking it so I am starting to suspect this is the case. I still feel a bit dazed, actually.

Also, will extending the halflife make neurotoxicity better, or worse? How does the neurotoxicity of amphetamine (or PEA) work, exactly? Is it from degrading or from some action it does? This is vitally important, so if anyone knows, please tell me.

As for adderall, it's definitely the most effective, generally speaking. Some people respond better to ritalin or dex, but mostly it's adderall that has the best results. It lasts a bit longer and it doesn't hit all in one spike (even in the instant release) and for this kind of drug that's extremely important.

From instant release I get about 6 hours of use out of it. 14-18 for extended released but the extended release doesn't really seem to be quite as strong in its action. How long it will last, and the tlerance, varies a lot. A lot of people on places like the addforums will complain it lasts a very short time period, but I have realized the real problem is that that board is chock full of morons. Everyone I know with a brain who doesn't use high doses gets quite a lot of use out of it. The key is, to not expect a feeling of euphoria to be the indication it's working. Also, you have to realize that too much is worse than not enough. You very quickly go into the land of obsessive compulsive (which is why the drug works), but it's counterproductive to spend hours obsessing on stupid things you'd otherwise never have noticed.

Tolerance develops quick, so you really have to make an effort to keep it low by taking regular breaks. Unfortunately, you'll find it harder and harder to ake breaks as time goes by. You lose tolerance over time, though, assuming you don't do permanent damage to yourself which is very possible at higher doses (and maybe somewhat at lower doses?). You don't want high doses because the side effects suck. Even at lower doses impotence, aged skin, and a myriad of other problems come from the vasoconstriction.

Many supplements help to varying degrees, but there's no magic bullet.

[StrangeAeons]

MAO-A inhibitors do very little to dopamine; it's still debatable to what extent MAO-A even deaminates dopamine. As per the aged wine, the tyramine content is way overblown. I just bought the book "Clinical Advances in MAOI therapy" and it has a whole chapter discussing tyramine and tyramine responses. It's a really helpful book, and I would strongly recommend it to anybody who is considering MAOI's (it's also dirt cheap used via Amazon). What an RIMA like Manerix will do is boost norepinephrine, and substantially so. The risk of tyramine interactions with RIMA's is also effectively nil unless you make a routine habit of consuming a pound of aged cheese a day; all you have to watch out for is drug-drug interactions. I'm mostly trying to recommend things that have less abuse and tolerance issues.

[3VeRL0ng]

Thanks for the help on the suggestions guys, it's good to know that I have a variety of options to choose from. But I must admit that it's a little overwhelming at the same time, given that I'm still a little unsure of which option to go with first (obviously I'm hoping that the first I go with will be my last). But I actually can already tell that this is a good move for me to make, given the fact that just after writing my second post on here yesterday, I had to have my mom repeat herself a couple of times just so I could comprehend what she was telling me, lol. But my appointment is set for Monday, so it does give me some time to juggle around some ideas, and go with what I feel would work the best. But as of right now I plan on discussing stimulants (considering how some are intended as a "straight-target" for ADD) with my doctor: Adderall, Vyvanse, and perhaps Modafinil... then it's just narrowing it down to only one from there, hmm. I have a slight feeling, though, that I just might have to go through a trial & error process until I hit my "sweet spot." But I am wondering, since there is time, if it is possible to decide on the most effective treatment type most suitable for me, based on these circumstances:

-NeuroLink was a supplement which I expected to work for this, but though it did help somewhat (mostly for combating the "mental block" feeling while going to the bathroom) it did caused some minor anxiety (mostly at work) & worrisome feelings, may of been due to the amount of Tyrosine in the formula.

-St. John's Wort made me feel AWESOME, but it did not help so much with ADD issues. I read that combining it with Tyrosine is necessary for helping this, but because of how I felt while taking NeuroLink, I didn't bother.

-Vinpocetine DEFINITELY did not do anything good for me, I felt as if it was causing some sort of "strain" on my brain, inducing an anxiety-like feeling, discontinued immediately after I realized it was causing this. Ginkgo sort of did the same thing to me.

-5-HTP didn't really do anything for me, after I thought it probably would, guess not though.

-Piracetam & Pyritinol, though I wish that they would have worked for me, considering how they were the first nootropics I ever had experimented with (both together & one at a time), they didn't help so much with attention, or memory. Though I definitely think that Pyritinol helped me to be more talkative & social, I felt as if it slowed me down whenever I'd take it.

-VitaSynergy was I supplement I was using for energy issues, and expected it to enhance my focus as well, but it was causing major anxiety for me, most likely from the Rhodiola contained in the formula.

-CDP (Citicoline) & Huperzine-A appeared to work pretty well on both my memory & attention, but the effect for me just didn't last that long (especially Huperzine-A which only seemed to work for a couple hours).

-Picamilon seemed to put me in a depressed state of mind.

-Doctor's Horny Goat Weed Formula caused me to sit and dwell on negative thoughts, perhaps from heightened levels of dopamine induced by Mucuna Pruriens.

-Nature Bounty's Super Goat Weed, like I said before, this worked tremendously well for me. My attention/focus & mood was much better, my speech was more fluent and clearer, and my friends were actually surprised by how good my memory was. This shit made me feel like a kid again, but as I mentioned in my first post it lost it's effect after about a month, and even if I wanted to use it now, it probably wouldn't be a good idea since it caused me to have an upset stomach most of the time I would take it. Still wondering what it's mechanism of action is on the brain to help steer me towards a suitable medication.

-E3Live Renew Me Blend, as I mentioned in my first post, this definitely, definitely worked for me, but just not for that long. May consider bgwithadd's suggestion on extending PEA's half-life w/Deprenyl if all else fails.

But I am still wondering if the effects the E3Live and the Super Goat Weed w/maca formula had on me were in some way clues for healing my ADD. And after stepping back and taking a look at the list I made, it seems as if dopamine only makes things worse for me (sort of like what bg was explaining). But since the stimulants effect dopamine in some ways, I am praying that it won't cause the same feeling that other dopamine-enhancing-agents have caused.

I should point out that I've decided to tweak around my regimen, now that a stimulant will be thrown in the mix. So here's all that I'll be using at the moment, until I get things better situated:
-NeurOmega (Supposedly is formulated for the type of ADD I have, pretty helpful for depression as well. I actually take it with Glucosamine).
-Maca (Only because it was in the Super Goat Weed formula, so I assume it was helping with ADD in some way)
-LEF BlueBerry Extract (One of the best "brain-foods" on the planet)
-Multi-Vitamin (AOR Multi-Basics)

So this is all I'll be sticking to for now, only time will tell how these stimulants drugs will "benefit" for my ADD. I'll make sure to post next week after I begin.

[tlm884]

Hmm... Lisdexamfetamine may be a safer & smarter alternative, but is it's half-life really only less than an hour? If that's the case, it unfortunately won't be able to cut it for me. Could anyone confirm on this? Has anyone had any positive experiences/success with it?

Yes Lisdexamfetamine has a half life of less then an hour but this is because the molecule is a prodrug. It is metabolised into amphetamine which has a half life of 10 - 28 hours.

[bgwithadd]

Some people do well on it, and others not as well. It's great in that it lasts a long time, but more people seem to get anxiety and aggression issues. With adderall and dex you generally get the opposite if you have ADD. I use IR, but adderall xr is coming out generic in two months. If you want something long acting, that's probably the place to start because the other one is mindbogglingly expensive.

[Jacovis]

Not sure anything could compete with the neurostimulant (Amphetamines and Methylphenidates) treatments for ADHD at the moment in terms of sheer improvement in ADHD symptoms for the most people (though other medications may have better side effect profiles).

In terms of supplements, the ones to try seem to be PhosphatidylSerine and Fish Oil. For me, the most promising formulation for ADHD looks to be Enzymotec's Sharp-PS™ PLATINUM PS-DHA/EPA conjugation which isn't yet publicly available. For what it's worth below are some details of an 'internal' [:o] study Enzymotec did on a product called Sharp●PS™ PLATINUM on schoolchildren with ADHD. This product is similar to their Sharp●PS™ GOLD except the PLATINUM version is a unique PS-DHA/EPA conjugation whereas the GOLD version is simply a PS-DHA conjugation. Now the GOLD formulation is available now in Country Life's Sharp Thought™ product as well as being in LEF's Cognitex with NeuroProtection Complex. It may be interesting to try the PLATINUM version (if anyone knows of a source?) though it may not give better results for ADHD than simply taking the same amounts of Fish Oil and Soy-derived Phosphatidyl Serine separately...

I want to try it but don't know when the (Sharp-PS™ PLATINUM PS-DHA/EPA conjugation) product will be available.

http://www.enzymotec.com/Page.asp

Enzymotec to expose successful ADHD trial findings

[05,2007] Enzymotec' study on the effect of Sharp●PS™ PLATINUM on ADHD schoolchildren was presented at the 2007 Annual Meeting of the Pediatric Academic Societies (PAS), in Toronto. The study, conducted by Prof. Nachum Vaisman from the Sourasky Tel Aviv Medical Center, Tel-Aviv, Israel, involved over sixty children, divided in 3 groups .

"Providing Sharp●PS™ PLATINUM to these children had a pronounced impact on their Test of variables of Attention (TOVA) scores, inasmuch as 60% of them presented asymptomatic total TOVA score at the end of the intervention" says Dr. Dori Pelled, Enzymotec's CTO.
"We find it very reassuring that the alleviated TOVA results, were highly correlated with the incorporation of this product into the blood components. It seems that conjugation of Omega-3s to phospholipids have a significant beneficial effect on cognitive performance." concludes Dr. Pelled.

Sharp●PS™ PLATINUM is a unique PS-DHA/EPA conjugation, based on Enzymotec's unique line of cognitive products, including : Sharp●PS™ and Sharp●PS™ GOLD , which are already being marketed in the US and elsewhere. Earlier this year , the company has announced of a second, large clinical trial, which will be conducted in Israel and will further evaluate the product efficacy on the same product.

Enzymotec (www.enzymotec.com) is an Israeli biotech company, that seeks to provide branded nutrition companies with a better value proposition in 3 main health areas: CVD management, improving cognitive performance and balanced nutrition for babies.
We do that by taking ingredients, which have already gained market and scientific acceptance, such as: DHA, PS or plant-sterols and enhance their efficacy by mode of conjugation or modification. We also increase their value proposition by investing significant resources in clinical trials, regulatory affairs and patent protection while ensuring highest quality standards.


http://www.nutrition...ok.com/news.php

Omega-3 Enriched Phospholopids Show Promise For Pediatric ADHD Patients
ISRAEL – Pediatric ADHD patients may benefit from omega-3 LC-PUFA conjugated to phospholipids (PL-Omega3) according to a study presented during the 2007 Annual Meeting of the Pediatric Academic Societies (PAS), in Toronto.

The study, conducted by Prof. Nachum Vaisman from the Sourasky Tel Aviv Medical Center, Tel-Aviv, Israel, involved over sixty children, divided into three groups and randomized in a three month, double blind, placebo-controlled study. One group received PL-Omega3 (250 mg/d EPA+DHA and 300 mg/d PS), another received fish oil (250 mg/d EPA+DHA), while the control group received canola. Sustained visual attention and discrimination were objectively measured using the Test of Variables of Attention (TOVA). Omega-3 LC-PUFA incorporation into blood compartments also was analyzed.

The study reported that the PL-Omega3 and fish oil treatment groups showed marked increase in plasma phospholipids omega-3:omega-6 and in EPA:arachidonic acid (AA) ratios.

The TOVA average ADHD index z score improved by 3.35 SD and 1.72 SD for the PL-Omega3 and FO groups, respectively, compared with a decline of -0.42 SD for control patients (P<0.001).

All TOVA indexes under investigation were significantly (P<0.05) improved for PL-Omega3 group (0.75 SD 1.01 SD). Accordingly, in PL-Omega3 (11/18) but not in FO (7/21) a significant (P<0.05) ratio of subjects demonstrated asymptomatic ADHD index score, compared with control (3/21). Interestingly, the increase in EPA:AA ratios was shown to correlate with ADHD index score alterations only for PL-Omega3 group. No Adverse effects were recorded.

"Providing Sharp-PS™ PLATINUM to these children had a pronounced impact on their Test of variables of Attention (TOVA) scores, inasmuch as 60% of them presented asymptomatic total TOVA score at the end of the intervention" said Dr. Dori Pelled, Enzymotec's CTO.

"We find it very reassuring that the alleviated TOVA results, were highly correlated with the incorporation of this product into the blood components. It seems that conjugation of Omega-3s to phospholipids have a significant beneficial effect on cognitive performance." concludes Dr. Pelled.

Sharp-PS™ PLATINUM is PS-DHA/EPA conjugation, based on Enzymotec's line of cognitive products, including: Sharp-PS™ and Sharp-PS™ GOLD, which are already being marketed in the US and elsewhere.

Earlier this year, the company announced a second, large clinical trial, which will be conducted in Israel and will further evaluate the product efficacy on the same product.

For more information, visit www.enzymotec.com
published date: 05-15-2007

The above study sponsored by Enzymotec is in Pubmed now (see abstract below) and the full text can be viewed at http://www.nutrition...ns/ajcnMay4.pdf.

1: Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 May;87(5):1170-80.
Correlation between changes in blood fatty acid composition and visual sustained attention performance in children with inattention: effect of dietary n-3 fatty acids containing phospholipids.
Vaisman N, Kaysar N, Zaruk-Adasha Y, Pelled D, Brichon G, Zwingelstein G, Bodennec J.
Clinical Nutrition Unit, Tel Aviv Sourasky Medical Center, Tel-Aviv, Israel. vaisman@tasmc.health.gov.il

BACKGROUND: Increasing evidence supports n-3 fatty acid (FA) supplementation for patients with psychiatric disorders, such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. However, the exact metabolic fate of dietary eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) on different glyceride carriers remains unclear. OBJECTIVE: We investigated whether conjugation of EPA and DHA to phospholipid (PL-n-3) or to triacylglycerol (fish oil; FO) affects their incorporation in blood compartments and influences executive functioning. DESIGN: Children aged 8-13 y with impaired visual sustained attention performance received placebo, 250 mg/d EPA + DHA esterified to PL-n-3 (300 mg/d phosphatidylserine), or FO for 3 mo in a randomized double-blind manner. Main outcome measures included plasma and erythrocyte FA profile and continuous performance test results (Test of Variables of Attention; TOVA). RESULTS: Sixty of the 83 children enrolled completed the interventions (n = 18-21 per group). There was an enrichment of EPA (1.5-2.2-fold), docosapentaenoic acid (DPA; 1.2-fold), and DHA (1.3-fold) in the PL fraction in the plasma of FO- and PL-n-3-fed children. In erythrocytes, only PL-n-3 resulted in a significant reduction (approximately 30%) of very-long-chain saturated FAs (C20-24) and in an increase (1.2- and 2.2-fold, respectively) in linoleic acid and DPA. Total TOVA scores increased in the PL-n-3 (mean +/- SD: 3.35 +/- 1.86) and FO (1.72 +/- 1.67) groups but not in the placebo group (-0.42 +/- 2.51) (PL-n-3 > FO > placebo; P < 0.001). A significant correlation between the alterations in FAs and increased TOVA scores mainly occurred in the PL-n-3 group. CONCLUSION: Consumption of EPA+DHA esterified to different carriers had different effects on the incorporation of these FAs in blood fractions and on the visual sustained attention performance in children. This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT00382616.

PMID: 18469236 [PubMed - in process]

I don't have access to the full text of this study but I do know from cutting and pasting on searches it includes the following passage:
"...In the erythrocyte PLs, an increase ( 230%) in nervonic acid (24:1n–9) concentrations was detected in response to PL-n –3 administration compared with the placebo (P = 0.029) but not the FO (P 0.389) treatment..."

Nervonic Acid was found to be significantly lower in children with ADHD in the following study...

1: J Nutr Biochem. 2004 Aug;15(8):467-72. Links
Dietary patterns and blood fatty acid composition in children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder in Taiwan.Chen JR, Hsu SF, Hsu CD, Hwang LH, Yang SC.
Department of Nutrition and Health Sciences, Taipei Medical University, Taiwan.

Nutritional factors may be relative to attention-deficit hyperactive disorder (ADHD), although the pathogenic mechanism is still unknown. Based on the work of others, we hypothesized that children with ADHD have altered dietary patterns and fatty acid metabolism. Therefore, the aim of this study was to evaluate dietary patterns and the blood fatty acid composition in children with ADHD in the Taipei area of Taiwan. The present study found that 58 subjects with ADHD (average age 8.5 years) had significantly higher intakes of iron and vitamin C compared to those of 52 control subjects (average age 7.9 years) (P < 0.05). The blood total protein content in subjects with ADHD was significantly lower than that in control subjects (P < 0.05). On the other hand, children with ADHD had significantly higher blood iron levels compared to the control children (P < 0.05). Additionally, plasma gamma-linolenic acid (18:3 n-6) in children with ADHD was higher than that in control children (P < 0.05). Concerning the composition of other fatty acids in the phospholipid isolated from red blood cell (RBC) membranes, oleic acid (18:1n-9) was significantly higher, whereas nervonic acid (24:1n-9), linoleic acid (18:2n-6), arachidonic acid (20:4n-6), and docosahexaenoic acid (22:6n-3) were significantly lower in subjects with ADHD (P < 0.05). Our results suggest that there were no differences in dietary patterns of these children with ADHD except for the intake of iron and vitamin C; however, the fatty acid composition of phospholipid from RBC membranes in the ADHD children differed from that of the normal children.

PMID: 15302081 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I wonder if Nervonic Acid is the key to the positive results and where this can be obtained? I understand it is concentrated in the seed oil of Lunaria annua and Nervonic acid is thought to be an essential nutrient for the growth and maintenance of the brain as well as in biosynthesis of nerve cell myelin...

Below is the link to Phase II of the above study and I am pretty sure they are using Enzymotec's Sharp-PS™ PLATINUM PS-DHA/EPA conjugation here (Phase II is currently in progress)...

http://clinicaltrials.gov/
PS-Omega3 Supplementation to Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) Children (ADHD-3)
This study is not yet open for participant recruitment.
Verified by Tel-Aviv Sourasky Medical Center, June 2008
Sponsors and Collaborators: Tel-Aviv Sourasky Medical Center
Enzymotec
Information provided by: Tel-Aviv Sourasky Medical Center
ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00700323
Purpose
To assess the effect of phosphatidylserine-omega-3 consumption on the immune system parameters in children suffering from attention and concentration deficits.

Condition Intervention Phase
ADHD
Dietary Supplement: PS-Omega3 conjugate supplementation
Dietary Supplement: placebo
Phase II

MedlinePlus related topics: Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Dietary Supplements
U.S. FDA Resources
Study Type: Interventional
Study Design: Treatment, Randomized, Double Blind (Subject, Caregiver, Investigator), Placebo Control, Parallel Assignment, Efficacy Study
Official Title: Phase 2b Study of PS-Omega3 Conjugate Supplementation to ADHD Diagnosed Children

Further study details as provided by Tel-Aviv Sourasky Medical Center:

Estimated Enrollment: 45
Study Start Date: July 2008
Estimated Study Completion Date: July 2009
Estimated Primary Completion Date: July 2009 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)
Arms Assigned Interventions
1: Active Comparator
Patients receiving active product
Dietary Supplement: PS-Omega3 conjugate supplementation
2: Placebo Comparator
Patients receiving placebo
Dietary Supplement: placebo

Eligibility

Ages Eligible for Study: 8 Years to 13 Years
Genders Eligible for Study: Both
Accepts Healthy Volunteers: No
Criteria
Inclusion Criteria:
Parental written informed consent.
Age: 13≥ years ≥8 (including).
Gender: both male and female.
TOVA computerized test score ≤-1.8 at baseline.
Language: Subjects, parents, and teachers must be able to read, write and speak Hebrew.
Normal weight and height according to Israeli standards.
21 days without any treatment for ADHD symptoms, whether medication or food supplement.
Exclusion Criteria:
History or current diagnosis of any serious systemic (e.g., diabetes, hyper/hypothyroidism, etc.) or neurological condition (e.g., epilepsy, brain tumors, etc.)
Pervasive developmental disorder or Non-Verbal Learning Disability
Any evidence of psychotic disorders, suicidal risk, any current psychiatric co-morbidity that required psychiatric pharmacotherapy.
History of allergic reactions or sensitivity to marine products (seafood), soy or corn as well as any illness, which may jeopardize the participants health or limit their successful trial completion.
Having a sibling already included in the study.
Contacts and Locations
Please refer to this study by its ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT00700323

Contacts
Contact: Nachum Vaisman, Prof' 972-3-697-4807 vaisman@tasmc.health.gov.il

Locations
Israel
Tel-Aviv Sourasky Medical Center
Tel-Aviv, Israel
Sponsors and Collaborators
Tel-Aviv Sourasky Medical Center
Enzymotec
Investigators
Principal Investigator: Nachum Vaisman, Prof' Tel-Aviv Sourasky Medical Center
More Information

Responsible Party: Enzymotec Ltd. ( Yoni Manor STUDY PROJECT MANAGER )
Study ID Numbers: TASMC-08-NV-263, 263-08-TLV
Study First Received: June 17, 2008
Last Updated: June 17, 2008
ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00700323 [history]
Health Authority: Israel: Ministry of Health

Keywords provided by Tel-Aviv Sourasky Medical Center:
ADHD
ADHD diagnosed children

Study placed in the following topic categories:
Attention Deficit Disorder with Hyperactivity
Mental Disorders
Mental Disorders Diagnosed in Childhood
Attention Deficit and Disruptive Behavior Disorders
Hyperkinesis

ClinicalTrials.gov processed this record on February 05, 2009

Edited by Visionary7903, 06 February 2009 - 12:31 PM.

[bgwithadd]

With nervonic acid, the problem is there's no natural plant that's easily grown and has high concentrations so it's not really available. Some canadian company or organization recently made a genetically engineered bean or something that does this, so I expect in the next few years we'll see nervonic acid as a common supplement.

I'm not sure how much help nervonic acide will do when fully grown, but there are some drugs that increase myelin sheath growth. Probably some supplements, too, but I am not sure what.

[3VeRL0ng]

Alright, so I'm back here to post an update regarding my topic. Unfortunately, Adderall was not prescribed to me as I was hoping it would. My doctor seemed extremely concerned about it's black box warning regarding sudden death, so instead he seemed more comfortable having me try Strattera (even though it's b.b.w. mentions increased risk of suicidal tendencies, something I was unaware of at the time). So I gave it a chance, and I really couldn't agree more with what bgwithadd said about it. It may not be "crap" to some, but I definitely could tell it was doing more bad than good for my needs. I'd honestly rather feel focused while concentrating, rather than paranoid. So I'm planning to set another app., and I'm striving to get what I want prescribed to me this time, because after doing all my research & pondering & procrastinating, I THINK this just may be the right thing for me. BTW, I've been considering the following noots until my next app. is scheduled, mostly just to compare & see if any of them satisfies my needs: DMAE, L-Tyrosine (maybe even combined with St. John's Wort), Pycnogenol, Centrophenoxine, Deprenyl, DHEA, and Vasopressin. But there were some thoughts that had crossed my mind, and I'd appreciate if some light could be shed on them:

-DMAE seems to be somewhat of a risky noot to be taking, but I don't understand how it's considered an anti-depressant even though it is advised not to be taken with a history of depression. I'm mostly considering because supposedly it's helpful for attention & learning problems.

-Exactly how different is Centrophenoxine from DMAE? I know DMAE is contained in Cen., but which of the two is actually better for brain function?

-Very recently, I have realized that every vasodilator I have taken (Vinpocetine, Picamilon, and Ginkgo) had very negative effects on me (anxiety, depression, nervousness, a strain-like feeling in my forehead, etc.), causing me to avoid vasodilators altogether. Is there any reason behind this? Does this show that there may be other types of noots for me to avoid taking?

[bgwithadd]

You can get anxiety from vasodilators by not getting enough blood flow if it goes too far. If your bp is too low it can do that, as I am learning from guanfacine.

[jackinbox]

You can get anxiety from vasodilators by not getting enough blood flow if it goes too far. If your bp is too low it can do that, as I am learning from guanfacine.

I tried every possible medications, nootropics, supplements, etc. to help with my ADD. Nothing really worked until I tried coca tea. My current stack is 4-6 brew of coca tea per day (each brew is 1g of coca leaf) + 2-4 grams of piracetam, 600mg - 1200mg of Alpha-GPC, 200mg of Pramiracetam + Gingko Biloba. I buy my coca tea from an American suppliers, Reyes Avila, and get it shipped to Canada (no problem with customs). Coca tea also helps with my IBS. I did cut on my IBS medication since I take it.

[kikai93]

You can get anxiety from vasodilators by not getting enough blood flow if it goes too far. If your bp is too low it can do that, as I am learning from guanfacine.

Maybe with guanfacine (though I would doubt it at a typical therapeutic dosage), but gingko and vinpocetine are more selective and vinpocetine in particular has no significant effect on systemic circulation in a therapeutic dose. Vinpocetine has five main pharmacological and biochemical actions (according to the studies I cite below for ease of reference): 1) selective enhancement of the brain circulation and oxygen utilization without significant alteration in parameters of systemic circulation, 2) anticonvulsant activity 3) increased tolerance of the brain toward inadequate levels of oxygen and reduced blood flow, 4) improvement in flow properties of the blood and a reduction in platelet aggregation, actions which reduce excessive clotting.and 5) an inhibitory effect on phosphodiesterase (PDE) enzyme.

Kiss B, Karpati E. [Mechanism of action of vinpocetine]. Acta Pharm Hung. 1996 Sep;66(5):213-24.
Miyazaki M. The effect of a cerebral vasodilator, vinpocetine, on cerebral vascular resistance evaluated by the Doppler ultrasonic technique in patients with cerebrovascular diseases. Angiology. 1995 Jan;46(1):53-8.
Biro K, Karpati E, Szporny L. Protective activity of ethyl apovincaminate on ischaemic anoxia of the brain. Arzneimittelforschung. 1976;26(10a):1918-20.
Sukhareva MP, Aref'eva NA, Farkhutdinova LV [Pharmacopuncture in combined treatment of children with neurosensory hypoacusis]. Vestn Otorinolaringol. 2000;(6):24-6.
Solntseva EI, Bukanova JV. Enhancement of low-threshold A-current of the neuronal membrane by vinpocetine. Membr Cell Biol. 2000;14(2):181-8.


For the OP, I'm not sure how the vasodilators you mentioned were causing the symptoms you attributed to them, to be honest. Were you taking anything with them? Sometimes vasodilators potentiate the effects of other medications/supplements significantly. As to the difference between centrophenoxine and DMAE, Centro is a LOT more potent. You get more bang for your buck, but I have seen a lot of people reporting overstimulation and an increase in typical negative DMAE side effects as well. Either are pretty cheap, so whatever works best for you (although there have been some studies indicating it has slight anticholinergic properties, as a caveat).

On the Deprenyl tip, use caution. It's potent and MAO-B inhibition has an extremely long halflife (~40days!) in humans (it keeps going long after the drug is gone). In responsible doses it seems ok (1mg/day or so for 14-30 days, cycled with 60 days of "off time" seems to be the most-cited success story, as well as "just using it for the test") but I've seen a lot of negative reports on this forum and others (mostly due to overdoses resulting in cheese effect type stuff). It's definitely contraindicated if you use stimulants such as Adderall and at high doses (and dosage is cumulative) it loses selectivity and inhibits MAO-A as well (DANGER Will Robinson!).

You mentioned DHEA, which I have on order as well (amongst several other candidate) as I am also on the same mission as are you, and it seems to have a better stack of literature behind it than does DMAE for ADD/ADHD. For that matter, ALCAR, N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine, NAC, Magnesium Orotate, various adaptogens (Brahmi and Rhodiola come to mind), Gotu Kola, and several others I can't remember (notes are at home, doh!) all have more supporting and less conflicting reports than DMAE. Just sayin'. I'll definitely be following your threads in the future, do keep us posted on the mission.

[bgwithadd]

jack - it helps me, too. I often forget I have it, though.

kikai - yet he has anxiety from it. I don't think it's very common, but it is definitely possible. It's not just systemic blood pressure but local blood pressure that matters, and obviously the point is to change local blood pressure. Blood pressure changes in either direction can cause anxiety. If blood vessels are too relaxed you might not get enough blood flow to your entire brain. By the same token you can become impotent from too much vasodilation though generally it should have the opposite effect.

[StrangeAeons]

Jack: cocaine is a helluva drug. I personally would rather not screw with it, and I'm guessing you don't have an employer who conducts drug screenings. Like the amphetamines, coke burns out your neurotransmitter pathways, leaving behind the all-too familiar pattern of abuse potential, addiction, and withdrawal.
Firstly, how long did you take the Strattera? It's principle effects, much like SSRI's, are not immediately felt; it takes several weeks of dealing with unpleasantness before the drug does its thing. If it was too much for you to even tolerate for a short period of time, then by all means the discontinuation was justified; but if you feel like you can tolerate the stuff for a while then I would give it a couple of months. I've done this myself many times with meds that were far less worthy or even indicated in these instances; it's just part of psychiatry you have to put up with.
I should also point out that mechanism/neurotransmitter activity is a poor predictor of a drug's efficacy when you don't even rightly know why you have these cognitive difficulties. I would not discount MAOI's, and especially the reversible one I mentioned above (moclobemide). Do more research, I think you might be surprised.
As per blood pressure, I would leave it be. I would generally avoid any drug that has a vascular side effect, much less one whose principal activity is vascular. If bloodflow played any significant role in psychiatry we would know; it's a much easier thing to study than the brain's intricate neural activity. Hence the diagnosis of vascular dementia.
On the other hand, I am currently being treated by an orthomolecular psychiatrist, and his method is principally in identifying metabolic imbalances. In my case I turned out to have severe vitamin D and iron deficiencies, among others-- suggesting a malabsorption disorder. I am currently treating them, but as I mentioned earlier, the payoff is not always instantaneous. It's been a week and a half of aggressive supplements but thus far no improvement; these things take time. My point is that you may benefit from being likewise screened for any notable deficiencies, etc.

[kikai93]

jack - it helps me, too. I often forget I have it, though.

kikai - yet he has anxiety from it. I don't think it's very common, but it is definitely possible. It's not just systemic blood pressure but local blood pressure that matters, and obviously the point is to change local blood pressure. Blood pressure changes in either direction can cause anxiety. If blood vessels are too relaxed you might not get enough blood flow to your entire brain. By the same token you can become impotent from too much vasodilation though generally it should have the opposite effect.

He could have anxiety from Vinpocetine use (though again, I'm not sure how save if the dosage was too high or perhaps a pre-existing condition exacerbated by the Vinpocetine). He could also have anxiety from something else he's taking at the same time, an environmental cause (social, chemical, etc). I was asking if he was taking anything else at the time to rule out other supplement/drug agents and drug interactions. My next question (and it probably should have been the first) is "How much are you taking?" Most of the time when people complain about those kinds of effects from a selective vasodilator, their dosage is too high. All that said, it doesn't sound like Vinpocetine would be much help to him regardless.

[3VeRL0ng]

Now that you mention it, kikai, I do remember taking a Racetam with Vinpocetine (10mg, Source Naturals Brand btw) on two separate occasions (Pir & Ani to be exact), perhaps this may of contributed to the anxiety I was feeling. But, although one would think to take Vin. alone, or without a Racetam to avoid any adverse effects, I actually had done just that & still felt as if it was implementing that same kind of effect on me, but not nearly as great though. But I think during the time I assumed that it was ok to combine the two since I was researching up on "focus stacks," and things like that on here which had included the two. But I am assuming regardless of how I take Vin., in terms of dosage and stacking, it's going to induce this reaction either way & ultimately this makes me want to to avoid taking vasodilators (including Ginkgo) altogether.

As for the Strattera, I only had taken it for a 5-day period (I was given two, 10mg samples by my dr., w/each bottle containing 7 capsules). I know that definitely seems like too short of a period of time to tell if anything is working, but I definitely could feel the Strattera was not. And even if there was a wall to get over during the first few weeks of taking, my body just couldn't handle the suffering. From my experience, though, I definitely can tell if my body's accepting, or rejecting what I put into it. And having that mindset... in mind, I assumed the drug wasn't intended for me, especially showing no sign(s) of benefit.

One crucial factor I always try to give close attention to, after taking any psychoactive substance, is the way I speak. I usually know that something's working if it's causing me to speak with confidence & clarity. But when I'm struggling to get words out of my mouth, and speaking in what almost seems like a "soft-spoken voice" (almost as if I was coming off as shy), then it's a pretty good indicator that I'm reacting badly to something. But I'm mostly bringing this up because this was a way of allowing me to tell that the vasos I had mentioned, and even Strattera failed my expectations, and supps. like E3Live and even Horny Goat Weed worked tremendously for me (it seemed as if they immediately "flipped" something on that wasn't working correctly). So, I guess it's just a matter of time, patience, and persistence until I hit that "sweet spot." Here's a couple more things I've been curious about:

-What is the difference between L-Tyrosine & N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine? Is one better than the other, or are they pretty much the same?

-For quite some time now (and just recently I learned the correct term for it) Paruresis,aka "Shy Bladder Syndrome," has been an unfortunate ADD-related issue/side-effect interfering with my life. Just recently though, I've been supplementing with Jarrow L-Tyrosine, and to my surprise it appears to alleviate the problem a little. Could this problem have to do with a dopamine-related issue? Are there any other supplements/noots out there that are known to help assist with this "mental block"?

[jackinbox]

Jack: cocaine is a helluva drug. I personally would rather not screw with it, and I'm guessing you don't have an employer who conducts drug screenings. Like the amphetamines, coke burns out your neurotransmitter pathways, leaving behind the all-too familiar pattern of abuse potential, addiction, and withdrawal.
Firstly, how long did you take the Strattera? It's principle effects, much like SSRI's, are not immediately felt; it takes several weeks of dealing with unpleasantness before the drug does its thing. If it was too much for you to even tolerate for a short period of time, then by all means the discontinuation was justified; but if you feel like you can tolerate the stuff for a while then I would give it a couple of months. I've done this myself many times with meds that were far less worthy or even indicated in these instances; it's just part of psychiatry you have to put up with.
I should also point out that mechanism/neurotransmitter activity is a poor predictor of a drug's efficacy when you don't even rightly know why you have these cognitive difficulties. I would not discount MAOI's, and especially the reversible one I mentioned above (moclobemide). Do more research, I think you might be surprised.
As per blood pressure, I would leave it be. I would generally avoid any drug that has a vascular side effect, much less one whose principal activity is vascular. If bloodflow played any significant role in psychiatry we would know; it's a much easier thing to study than the brain's intricate neural activity. Hence the diagnosis of vascular dementia.
On the other hand, I am currently being treated by an orthomolecular psychiatrist, and his method is principally in identifying metabolic imbalances. In my case I turned out to have severe vitamin D and iron deficiencies, among others-- suggesting a malabsorption disorder. I am currently treating them, but as I mentioned earlier, the payoff is not always instantaneous. It's been a week and a half of aggressive supplements but thus far no improvement; these things take time. My point is that you may benefit from being likewise screened for any notable deficiencies, etc.

It's all about dosage. There is about 1mg of cocaine in each tea bag and only a part of it get into the water. A typical dosage of cocaine (snorted) is 50mg. I'm no where close to that. With dexedrine I used to get my neurotransmitter depleted after 2-3 days. I have been using coca tea everyday for weeks now without side effects. The effect also come from others alkaloid contained in the plant. By the way, I had a very bad experience with Strattera. I have permanent tinnitus because of this medication. It's one of the ADHD medication with the worse side effects. Anyway, I don't have any alternative. I wouldn't be using it (coca tea) if I didn't need it or if there was a better alternative.

[FunkOdyssey]

If there was less than 1mg of cocaine in the tea, I doubt it would be effective for your ADD. There is actually a substantial amount, especially if you are having several cups daily:

Identification and quantitation
of alkaloids in coca tea
by
Jenkins AJ, Llosa T, Montoya I, Cone EJ
Addiction Research Center,
NIDA/NIH, Baltimore,
MD 21224, USA.
Forensic Sci Int 1996 Feb 9; 77(3):179-89

ABSTRACT

The consumption of coca tea is a common occurrence in many South American countries. The tea is often packaged in individual servings as tea bags which contain approximately 1 g of plant material. The consumption of coca tea leads to ingestion of cocaine and other alkaloids; however, there is little information available regarding the pharmacological or toxicological effects that result from consumption of coca tea. We performed a series of studies with coca tea bags from two South American countries, Peru and Bolivia. The alkaloidal content of the 'coca leaf' in coca tea bags was determined by two different extraction methods: Soxhlet extraction with methanol (exhaustive extraction), and mechanical agitation with methanol. Extracts were purified by solid-phase extraction (SPE) followed by analysis by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (GC/MS). Coca tea prepared from Peruvian and Bolivian coca tea bags was also analyzed by SPE-GC/MS assay. In addition, urine specimens were analyzed from an individual who consumed one cup of Peruvian coca tea and one cup of Bolivian coca tea on separate occasions. Urine samples were analyzed by immunoassay (TDx) and SPE-GC/MS. Analysis of coca tea bags and coca tea indicated that cocaine, benzoylecgonine, ecgonine methyl ester and trans-cinnamoylcocaine were present in varying quantities. With exhaustive extraction, an average of 5.11 mg, and 4.86 mg of cocaine per tea bag were found in coca leaf from Peru and Bolivia, respectively. The average amounts of benzoylecgonine, ecgonine methyl ester in Peruvian coca leaf were 0.11 and 1.15 mg, and in Bolivian coca leaf were 0.12 and 2.93 mg per tea bag, respectively. trans-cinnamoylcocaine was found in trace amounts in Peruvian tea bags and 0.16 mg/tea bag of Bolivian tea. When tea was prepared, an average of 4.14 mg of cocaine was present in a cup of Peruvian coca tea and 4.29 mg of cocaine was present in Bolivian tea. Following the consumption of a cup of Peruvian tea by one individual, a peak urine benzoylecgonine concentration of 3940 ng/ml occurred 10 h after ingestion. Consumption of Bolivian coca tea resulted in a peak benzoylecgonine concentration of 4979 ng/ml at 3.5 h. The cumulative urinary excretion of benzoylecgonine after approximately 48 h, determined by GC/MS, was 3.11 mg and 2.69 mg after consumption of Peruvian and Bolivian coca tea, respectively. This study demonstrated that coca tea bags and coca tea contain a significant amount of cocaine and cocaine-related alkaloids and the consumption of a single cup of Peruvian or Bolivian coca tea produces positive drug test results for cocaine metabolites.

I won't argue that there is no therapeutic potential there but it does seem like the short half-life is less than ideal when compared to a similar agent like ritalin. How do you maintain any kind of steady effect throughout the day? Sip it constantly?

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 20 February 2009 - 03:47 AM.

[Guacamolium]

"-What is the difference between L-Tyrosine & N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine? Is one better than the other, or are they pretty much the same?"

NALT is 20 times the potency of regular L-Tyrosine and water soluble. They share the same efficacy and mechanism of action in the brain. Dopamine and NE increase in the brain due to supplementation could hypothetically be serving the motivation drive for peeing in the company of others when normally in deficit. I have Paruresis as well.

[yoyo]

cocaine is much safer than the AMP drug class, its not neurotoxic even at abuse-level doses. i'd prefer it for ADD if availible.

[kikai93]

cocaine is much safer than the AMP drug class, its not neurotoxic even at abuse-level doses. i'd prefer it for ADD if availible.

This is a joke, right?

Cocaine is highly neurotoxic:
www.nida.nih.gov/pdf/monographs/Monograph163/Monograph163.pdf

Amphetamine compares favourably with cocaine in terms of neurotoxicity:
www.drugabuse.gov/Nida_notes/NNVol13N1/Comparing.html

Hyperglycemia can exacerbate:
www.aemj.org/cgi/content/abstract/7/9/974?ck=nck

Additional Studies and resources on Cocaine's Neurotoxic effects:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8464338
www.ionchannels.org/showabstract.php?pmid=7603637
http://www.ingentaco...25?crawler=true
linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0014299908008546

Bottom line: Cocaine is not a good choice. Just sayin'.

[kikai93]

-What is the difference between L-Tyrosine & N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine? Is one better than the other, or are they pretty much the same?

-For quite some time now (and just recently I learned the correct term for it) Paruresis,aka "Shy Bladder Syndrome," has been an unfortunate ADD-related issue/side-effect interfering with my life. Just recently though, I've been supplementing with Jarrow L-Tyrosine, and to my surprise it appears to alleviate the problem a little. Could this problem have to do with a dopamine-related issue? Are there any other supplements/noots out there that are known to help assist with this "mental block"?

I'm using the N-Acetyl form (300mg twice daily), and it has fairly immediate and pronounced effects on drive, mood, and paruresis for me. I would use it thrice daily save that it occasionally makes sleep a wee bit difficult. I am led by research and testimonials to believe that "regular" form is slower to act and less pronounced, though I didn't try it. Acetyl L-Carnitine, Fish Oil, Alpha Lipoic Acid and DHEA have all shown some favourable results as well on various symptoms (primarily focus, concentration and memory). I'm considering oxiracetam, but I'm dubious about its efficacy vs cost. Any experience there?

[FunkOdyssey]

I am developing some interest in the use of low-dose, continous delivery nicotine patches for the treatment of ADD, at a dose of 3.5 - 7mg daily. There is a saying in research circles, "nicotine is a good drug with a bad delivery system". It has shown efficacy for ADHD in several studies and performed as well as ritalin in a comparison study.

[kikai93]

I am developing some interest in the use of low-dose, continous delivery nicotine patches for the treatment of ADD, at a dose of 3.5 - 7mg daily. There is a saying in research circles, "nicotine is a good drug with a bad delivery system". It has shown efficacy for ADHD in several studies and performed as well as ritalin in a comparison study.

I'm considering this as well, but the cost for transdermal patches is pretty stiff and they deliver a pretty high dose. Do you know of any good alternatives?

[bgwithadd]

In the very study you post, it says outright that cocaine is not neurotoxic (which begs the question of why it's illegal).

Meth is laso not the same as adderall or dexedrine, though. Meth is much stronger and causes a lot of neurotoxicity. You use a lot smaller doses therapeutically, but ultimately for therapetic uses stimulants are stimulants. There's about 1 mg of cocaine in each bag of tea, and it absorbs over a couple of hours or so. It's fairly helpful, though not as good as taking an adderall, but then nothing is.

From what I've read it's basically the transportation of dopamine to the receptor sites that kills off the receptors. Cocaine doesn't do that (which is why it's munch less helpfull than amphetamines and doesn't cause neurotoxicity). Basically, if you are feeling intense euphoria with amphetamines that's the feeling of your brain cooking itself off. If you are not getting that intense euphoria then it seems you are not getting any neurotoxicity. Smart people come to realize quick that the euphoria is not what means it's working (and really, I've never gotten any, anyway). I get a brightened mood, but not what other people seem to get out of it.

FunkyOddesy - Nicotine is extremely effective, but it has bad side effects of vasoconstriction and at higher doses, nausea, manickiness, and irritability. When I was using it for 3-4 months (along with wellbutrin and occasional adderall) it was enough to completely halt my ADD 24 hours a day.

[FunkOdyssey]

I am developing some interest in the use of low-dose, continous delivery nicotine patches for the treatment of ADD, at a dose of 3.5 - 7mg daily. There is a saying in research circles, "nicotine is a good drug with a bad delivery system". It has shown efficacy for ADHD in several studies and performed as well as ritalin in a comparison study.

I'm considering this as well, but the cost for transdermal patches is pretty stiff and they deliver a pretty high dose. Do you know of any good alternatives?

Fourteen 21mg patches are $32.99 at drugstore.com, and these can be cut into fractional pieces to produce lower doses. I was going to experiment with 1/4 of a 21mg patch, or 5.25mg, worn for about 12 hours, which should deliver about 2.625mg of nicotine in total. I assume this small of a dose would not produce significant nausea, vasoconstriction, or significant elevation of heart rate or BP. I will be monitoring for all of these potential side effects.