9 replies to this topic

[SonicSynapse]

Hi,

Does anyone have any experience of growing plants with nootropic properties here in the UK climate?

Also does anyone have any experience of extracting the active constituents from nootropic plants?

For example I understand the roots of Japanese Knotweed, which is commonly considered a pest here in the UK (alarm bells), are rich in Resveratrol. Does anyone know anything about its concentration in the roots or how it is extracted. I understand from my research that a mixture of ethanol and water is used to extract the Resveratrol, which is then spray dried somehow in a more concentrated form with the appearance of a brown powder. I am unsure of the extraction process though, thats why I'm asking. Hope this isnt too far out for my first post here.

[Guacamolium]

You have to calculate the molecule's dielectric constant to determine its apparent solubility. Then use solvents that most closely match that solubility to separate it from the undesirable molecules surrounding it that share less soluble characteristics. Look up "list of solvents" and "determining dielectric constant" and you should be in the right direction. Also understanding what polar and non-polar molecules are will greatly help with the "dielectric" part.

[SonicSynapse]

Hi,

Thanks for the info. I am wishing now I paid more attention to science at school. I googled "determining dielectric constant" and was slapped with very many different ways of doing it with different materials. I understand now it has something to do with figuring out how much air is in whatever matter one is testing though even after doing that I havent got my head around working out how much resveratol there would be compared to other matter in japanese knotweed (Polygonum cuspidatum) root.

I managed to get datasheet as such for extracted reservatol (50%), which I have attached to this message. There is still many things I'd like to know regarding this if anyone is kind enough to share the information.

I'm under the impression that there is a high concentration of reservatol in knotweed root. Does anyone maybe know the bioavailability of reservatol to the human body if one consumes knotweed root in its native form, or if one can eat the root and gain the benefits of resveratol. I am open to the possibility that the resveratol is not available to the body in this form, and that it may even be poisonous to humans, however I'd like to establish how one might prepare knotweed root for consumption if it is not poisonous and has bioavailability if consumed.

Another consideration I'd like to find more about is the resveratol content of UK grown Japanese knotweed compared to its counterparts grown in its native far eatern countries such as Japan, China or Korea.

For the record, my interest in knotweed is mainly in its apparant ability to mop up lipids from the blood as opposed to its nootropic properties, as unfortunatley hyperlipidemia runs in my family. For those who may be reading this who dont know what hyperlipidemia is, it means the liver produces too much cholosterol and saturates the blood with Low density lipoprotiens (bad cholosterol), which is not good for obvious reasons.

I'm beginning to think I should have put this in the resveratol section of the forum but I didnt realise it existed till it was too late, however I'm still looking for info on other plants with nootropic properties too.

I'd also love some information on anyone who knows if Mucuna Pruriens (Velvet Bean) can be cultivated in the UK. I understand it forms the basis of over 200 medicinal formulations, including it being a well known dopamine percusor, which in my opinion easily gives it Nootropic status. Any info would be greatly greatly appreciated.

Attached Files

•  Resveratrol___datasheet.jpg   592.66KB   3 downloads

[bgwithadd]

Well, if you're really willing to go to the effort of trying to extract, you may as well get hydroponic equipment for the growing itself. Then you can grow virtually anything. I doubt the growing will be the hard part, but the extraction. Most of the methods are patented and took months or years of qualified personnel tinkering with them to get results. A lot of the solvents are not particularly healthy for you.

I consider myself good at home chemistry and I have made a few things myself for friends, but I don't think it would be realistic to try and make your own extracts. If you got enough testing equipment to be sure you were being safe, you'd be spending so much that you could just buy it yourself.

Some of the plants can be used in whole form, though, which would make it easy on you. If you need something in bulk there are suppliers for virtually everything. For example I contacted the vitaspace.com guy (who seems able to obtain nearly anything) about vinpocetine and you can get a kg for 2500 dollars. That's a lot of money, but considering how little you need per dose that is like 100000 doses or something like that. For another 500 bucks I am sure you could a sample tested in a lab for all the likely contaminants. For some things, I think people worry too much about contamination, but for a many times concentrated plant extract you are going to take every day for years it might be worth checking for lead and PVCs just in case.

[SonicSynapse]

Thanks for your addition bqwithadd.

I am a dab hand at hydroponics as it goes and I already have the equipment but I dont think it would be a cost effective way to do it, but with reference to knotweed, I'm sure it would be the most effective way to get the roots in a nice mat all in one place ready for the extraction process.

I have never grown knotweed hydroponically but I have managed to find out that if you stress hydroponic plants by depriving them of water, they will grow more root to go looking for it. Its not the best idea if you want healthy plants, but with the knotweed it would be the roots I wanted so it would be ideal to do this (I found this out accidentaly when a pump broke whilst growing something else).

Do you or does anyone for that matter know which plants can be used in thier whole form?

I would buy in bulk but for personal use i'd be put off by the fact stuff goes past its sell by date, plus I'd really feel a sense of achievment if I could myself learn how to extract the active ingredients from a few things at least.

You mentioned solvents are bad. I would probably use a mixture of water and ethanol to extract Resveratrol from knotweed root. I am new to this, but I would have thought that the solvent would be removed by the time one reached the final product. If anyone can enlighten me, please do.

[zachadelic]

growing plants with noots is a lot like just growing plants. some can be water-stressed/shade-grown to increase chemical yield, but that's a case by case basis. as far as the climate/soil, just look it up or even just try it. if it won't grow, grow it inside. if it won't grow inside, build a makeshift greenhouse. I'm not really experienced with chemistry, though have done some podunk tinctures (ethanol/water extract) of herbs with success. they're pretty hard to screw up, especially compared to a serious extraction with defats. I couldn't find definitive numbers on the concentration in mg/kg, except that knotweed>grape-skins. if you're really interested, dig deeper (research) and feel free to enlighten yourself.

[Guacamolium]

Hi,

Thanks for the info. I am wishing now I paid more attention to science at school. I googled "determining dielectric constant" and was slapped with very many different ways of doing it with different materials. I understand now it has something to do with figuring out how much air is in whatever matter one is testing though even after doing that I havent got my head around working out how much resveratol there would be compared to other matter in japanese knotweed (Polygonum cuspidatum) root.

You can also determine its solubility from its dipole moment - which it seems to share with ethanol, mostly. The problem I see is that you'll go to extract it, and a few other similar substances tag-along creating an environment which the substrate will be accompanied with other undesirable compounds. This is even assuming a high active content from growing.

[SonicSynapse]

Thanks for the replies and keeping the thread alive. I will hopefully be posting the answers to all my questions here.

I have been researching more into hydroponic knotweed cultivation and I have managed to find an excellent photograph which illustrates the knotweed root (image attached).

 jk_identify_stand___Knotweed_root.jpg   37.22KB   9 downloads

I was a little dissapointed when I saw it as it seems to be quite a woody root, with rhizomes, which I wouldnt think would be good to be grown hydroponically.

I'm inclined to think the rhizomes will have the highest concentration of resvesterol, which I have found out apparantly acts as an antifungal agent in plants.

This is where I could use some help again. Has anyone grown plants with woody roots and rhizomes hydroponically? I'm would think that the risk of root rot will be somewhat massively increased, but I may be wrong. If the magic ingredient revesterol stopped the rot with its antifungal properties whilst being hydroponically grown it really would be killing two birds with one stone.

According to wikipedia, Japanese knotweed rhizomes can survive temperatures of -35 °C (-30 °F) and can extend 7 metres (23 ft) horizontally and 3 metres (9.8 ft) deep.

I also chanced upon some info on what is left after the extraction process in the commonly available 50% resvesterol.

Apparantly, it's a 50% trans-resveratrol powder, where the other 50% is plant residue consisting of plant glycons (or glyconutrients), less than 3% emodin, and a mix of plant fiber, and plant pigments.

Anyone have any more ideas?

[maxwatt]

I have been to a botanical extract factory in China that makes 50% and 98-99% resveratrol extracts from knotweed. Only ethanol is used for the extraction. First the roots are cleaned and ground to 40 mesh, then placed in an extractor. The process is akin to a giant percolator or recirculating tea pot; the crude extract is further processed by fractionation. The exact details are proprietary. The extractors can start with as much as 400 kilos or more of ground root. The wholesale price per kilogram, even shipped to the UK or North America, is low enough you could probably buy a lifetime supply of resveratrol for less than the cost of setting up and maintaining a hydroponic operation. The manufacturers state the shelf life at 2 to 3 years if kept dry, out of light, and at room temperature or below. This is a minimum. I think if kept sealed in air-tight containers, it would last indefinitely at the bottom of a freezer. Let it come to room temperature before unsealing, lest moisture condensation create a problem.

A 50% extract with only 3% emodin is of very high quality and would sell for a premium. Five to 10% is the norm.

The roots themselves contain 0.75 to 1.6% resveratrol, depending on grade.

The plant is classified as an invasive weed in the United Kingdom and the United States, and is illegal to plant in most places. Once established it's difficult to eradicate. If you find a patch, you might even get paid for removing it, though you might be expected to burn the roots. I've found large patches growing quite enthusiastically on the roadside, undeterred by the highway department's efforts at eradication. Once established, the roots can be harvested after two years, though four year-old roots are considered to be of better quality. I can think of no real advantage to growing it hydroponically, as even a greenhouse or grow-room would be less trouble until the harvest. In China it is all wild-harvested; no one cultivates it. Tea made from the stems and leaves is part of traditional Asian medicine. The roots are edible, and have been consumed in times of famine.

[SonicSynapse]

I think that explains it most excellently maxwatt. A medal winning explaination in fact. Thank you kindly.

I think that rules out plan A of hydroponic cultivation for me. It takes way too long.

I do have a Plan B though. I happen to know where there was a great big patch of knotweed. I will have to go back and check. It was pretty infested there so hopefully its still the same. It was at least six years ago so the roots there should be quite mature if they're still there. Wish me luck:)