44 replies to this topic

[100YearsToGo]

Even moderate alcohol consumption of more than two drinks a week may raise the risk of cancer, according to a new study.

http://www.abcnews.g...e...9629&page=1

[ajnast4r]

i believe this is related to alcohols effects on estrogen levels, and is not as much relevant for men as it is for women

[FunkOdyssey]

The increase in breast cancer might be related to estrogen, but it increased the risk of other cancers like liver, rectal, and upper digestive tract, and I bet those apply equally to men. Basically any tissue or organ alcohol comes into contact with is going to have an increased risk of cancer, that's a simple and accurate way to describe it.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 25 February 2009 - 08:00 PM.

[Mind]

The increased risk was 2% for one-a-day drinkers. Not that bad. 15% increased if you drink 2 or more per day. Not that good.

Moderate alcohol consumption seems to protect against heart disease. Does the decreased mortality from heart disease balance out the increase mortality from cancer?

Edited by Mind, 25 February 2009 - 10:09 PM.

[Johan]

Another thing to keep in mind is that we don't know exactly how the study was performed, so all this article tells us is that there seems to be a positive correlation between alcohol intake and cancer risk. It doesn't necessarily mean that alcohol causes increased cancer risk; something else might account for that. Only the full paper may tell.

[nowayout]

The increased risk was 2% for one-a-day drinkers. Not that bad. 15% increased if you drink 2 or more per day. Not that good.

Moderate alcohol consumption seems to protect against heart disease. Does the decreased mortality from heart disease balance out the increase mortality from cancer?

It exceeds it in the general population according to the same article:

But for those whose personal history offers no added risk for alcohol consumption, taking a look at the overall life expectancy of alcohol drinkers might help to sway one's decision on whether the buzz is really worth it.
A study published in the journal Epidemiology in November 1998 found that light to moderate drinkers had the lowest risk of death compared with nondrinkers. Those who drank between one and seven alcoholic beverages a week experienced a 20 percent reduction in overall mortality.

When the researchers looked more closely at why light to moderate alcohol drinkers had less risk of death, they found that this group experienced a reduction in death from heart disease, thereby suggesting that the moderate alcohol consumption could have some protective benefits for the heart.

[VictorBjoerk]

alcohol is a cancer-promoting substance in virtually every organ. A moderate consumption of alcohol can be beneficial regarding arteriosclerosis but are bad for the heart itself and can make it weaker.

[100YearsToGo]

Here is the study:

http://jnci.oxfordjo...abstract/djn514

I'm quiting!

Fish oil, K2 and D3 will take care of the cardio risk. No reason to take alcohol.

[lucid]

One thing that the study didn't account for was how many days people drank in the week. A study i read recently showed that women who were in the moderate drinking group @ 14 a week, but who consumed the majority of those on weekends (fri & sat night) were at a very high increased risk of breast cancer (probably estrogen related). I would suspect that most of the people in the 14 a week group are in the weekend drinking catagory. I think im going to read the full article later and comment on how they controlled for short term vs long term abstainers. More later.

[nowayout]

Here is the study:

http://jnci.oxfordjo...abstract/djn514

I'm quiting!

Thank you for the link. The brouhaha seems a little overblown, especially if you are male and a non-smoker. The major effect is on breast cancer: Quoting:

For every additional drink regularly consumed per day, the increase in incidence up to age 75 years per 1000 for women in developed countries is estimated to be about 11 for breast cancer, 1 for cancers of the oral cavity and pharynx, 1 for cancer of the rectum, and 0.7 each for cancers of the esophagus, larynx and liver, giving a total excess of about 15 cancers per 1000 women up to age 75.

But let's assume that for males the breast cancer can be removed from the list. Furthermore, they find that "for cancers of the upper aerodigestive tract, the alcohol-associated risk was confined to current smokers, with little or no effect of alcohol among never and past smokers". So if you are a male nonsmoker, at worst the conclusion would presumably be modified to

For every additional drink regularly consumed per day, the increase in incidence up to age 75 years per 1000 for nonsmoking men in developed countries is estimated to be about 1 for cancer of the rectum, and 0.7 each for cancers of the liver, giving a total excess of about 1.7 cancers per 1000 men up to age 75.

Given the known cardiovascular benefits (up to 20% decreased overall mortality as quoted from another study), this would still definitely weigh the equation in favor of moderate alcohol consumption at least for males.

Also, note that they find that

Increasing levels of alcohol consumption were associated with a decreased risk of thyroid cancer (P_trend = .005), non–Hodgkin lymphoma (P_trend = .001), and renal cell carcinoma (P_trend = .03).

so the claim that "basically any tissue or organ alcohol comes into contact with is going to have an increased risk of cancer" is incorrect if this study is to be believed.

Edited by andre, 26 February 2009 - 01:30 PM.

[100YearsToGo]

Here is the study:

http://jnci.oxfordjo...abstract/djn514

I'm quiting!

Thank you for the link. The brouhaha seems a little overblown, especially if you are male and a non-smoker. The major effect is on breast cancer: Quoting:

For every additional drink regularly consumed per day, the increase in incidence up to age 75 years per 1000 for women in developed countries is estimated to be about 11 for breast cancer, 1 for cancers of the oral cavity and pharynx, 1 for cancer of the rectum, and 0.7 each for cancers of the esophagus, larynx and liver, giving a total excess of about 15 cancers per 1000 women up to age 75.

But let's assume that for males the breast cancer can be removed from the list. Furthermore, they find that "for cancers of the upper aerodigestive tract, the alcohol-associated risk was confined to current smokers, with little or no effect of alcohol among never and past smokers". So if you are a male nonsmoker, at worst the conclusion would presumably be modified to

For every additional drink regularly consumed per day, the increase in incidence up to age 75 years per 1000 for nonsmoking men in developed countries is estimated to be about 1 for cancer of the rectum, and 0.7 each for cancers of the liver, giving a total excess of about 1.7 cancers per 1000 men up to age 75.

Given the known cardiovascular benefits (up to 20% decreased overall mortality as quoted from another study), this would still definitely weigh the equation in favor of moderate alcohol consumption at least for males.

Also, note that they find that

Increasing levels of alcohol consumption were associated with a decreased risk of thyroid cancer (P_trend = .005), non–Hodgkin lymphoma (P_trend = .001), and renal cell carcinoma (P_trend = .03).

so the claim that "basically any tissue or organ alcohol comes into contact with is going to have an increased risk of cancer" is incorrect if this study is to be believed.

You are correct. It is most dangerous for women. I however easily reach 35 drinks a week. A lot of happy hours with clients etc. So the risk is about 1 in 100. for me. Thats too much! On top of that it is often in rooms with heavy smoking going on. brrrrr....

[pobuoy]

it sounds like some people are trying to justify their own alcohol consumption. Why would we ever want consume ethanol for any reason than other than for it's psychoactive effects? Whatever cardiovascular benefits alcoholic drinks can provide are certainly outweighed by its immune depressing, vitamin depleting, judgment impairing, and carcinogenic properties.

[niner]

it sounds like some people are trying to justify their own alcohol consumption. Why would we ever want consume ethanol for any reason than other than for it's psychoactive effects? Whatever cardiovascular benefits alcoholic drinks can provide are certainly outweighed by its immune depressing, vitamin depleting, judgment impairing, and carcinogenic properties.

It sounds like some people are trying to justify their own choice to abstain...

[wydell]

Haha, half the posts on immist are people trying to justifying their own positions, while ignoring or finding fault with evidence to the contrary. It's not particular to folks on imminst. It's just a natural tendency of people in general.

it sounds like some people are trying to justify their own alcohol consumption. Why would we ever want consume ethanol for any reason than other than for it's psychoactive effects? Whatever cardiovascular benefits alcoholic drinks can provide are certainly outweighed by its immune depressing, vitamin depleting, judgment impairing, and carcinogenic properties.

It sounds like some people are trying to justify their own choice to abstain...

[nowayout]

it sounds like some people are trying to justify their own alcohol consumption. Why would we ever want consume ethanol for any reason than other than for it's psychoactive effects? Whatever cardiovascular benefits alcoholic drinks can provide are certainly outweighed by its immune depressing, vitamin depleting, judgment impairing, and carcinogenic properties.

Sure, there is a lot of self-justification going on. However, your claim on the health issues is very questionable on the basis of available evidence and may very well be wrong. To answer your question, many oenophiles would disagree that they consume wine mainly (or even at all) for its psychoactive effects. It is like asking why anyone would consume food for any reason other than its nutritional value. Good wine, like good food, enriches people's lives in ways that go beyond mere physical sustenance. A long and healthy life has to be rich in experience, otherwise what is the point of it?

Edited by andre, 02 March 2009 - 03:13 PM.

[JLL]

Well, I certainly don't drink beer because I think it's healthy. I drink it 'cause it makes me feel like I need to feel! One or two glasses of wine per day, however, seems to me like a healthy choice when weighing the positives and negatives.

[burungnasar]

This article presents an interesting take on the study:

Spike article

Quote:

Third, the study is full of significant puzzles that suggest that its results are unreliable. For example, it reports that the incidence of all types of cancer studied in its non-drinking subjects was 5.7 per cent compared with 5.3 per cent for those subjects who had at least a drink a day, and up to 14 drinks a week.

In other words, not only was there no dose-response in terms of cancer risk, but teetotallers had a higher population incidence of cancer than those consuming up to 14 drinks a week!

Even those women in the study who drank the most (15 or more drinks a week) had a cancer incidence of 5.8 per cent, which is virtually identical to those who drank nothing. But this particular take-home message somehow escaped Allen’s notice, and that of the media as well.

[Mind]

Alcohol consumption might increase pancreatic cancer risk.

PHILADELPHIA – Consuming two or more drinks per day could increase a person's risk of pancreatic cancer by about 22 percent, according to data published in Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers and Prevention, a journal of the American Association for Cancer Research.

"Our findings support multiple nutrition recommendations that men should limit intake to no more than two alcoholic beverages per day and women should limit intake to no more than one," said lead author Jeanine M. Genkinger, Ph.D., an assistant professor at the Lombardi Comprehensive Cancer Center. A drink is defined as 12 ounces of beer, four ounces of wine, or 1.5 ounces of 80-proof distilled liquor.

Genkinger and colleagues conducted a pooled analysis of the primary data from 14 research studies, for a population that included 862,664 individuals. Researchers identified 2,187 individuals diagnosed with pancreatic cancer during the study.

[Matt]

I've never really understood the need to drink alcohol anyway. I only had a few sips about 6+ years ago and haven't consumed any since. Just not interested at all, even before CR. And I think that if one eats a very healthy diet then the 'claimed' health benefits from things like red wine would be very small, if any.

[nowayout]

I've never really understood the need to drink alcohol anyway. I only had a few sips about 6+ years ago and haven't consumed any since. Just not interested at all, even before CR. And I think that if one eats a very healthy diet then the 'claimed' health benefits from things like red wine would be very small, if any.

Maybe, but as any oenophile can attest, we do not consume wine for the health benefits. Those are just a bonus. People tend to forget that health is only a means to an end, not an end in itself.

Edited by andre, 05 March 2009 - 09:48 PM.

[JLL]

Yeah, don't knock it till you try it!

[Matt]

I hate the taste. I wouldn't care if alcohol didn't exist at all

Edited by Matt, 06 March 2009 - 12:30 AM.

[VictorBjoerk]

I've virtually never drunk alcohol and I have no plans to do it. The only alcohol I consume is when I dip the bread in the wine during the holy communion. However I'm not moralizing, I don't think other people should abstain from alcohol. It is also a natural part of the development during your teens to go to parties and drink alcohol when you are still underage as well as other rebellious things. I do not know a lot of other people who have not drunk alcohol.

[JLL]

I hate the taste. I wouldn't care if alcohol didn't exist at all

Hate the taste of what? Alcohol? I don't think most people enjoy the actual taste of alcohol but rather the format it comes in. And there are plenty to choose from.

I'm not trying to get people to drink here, I could care less, but that just sounds like a weird comment. That's like saying I don't like the taste of carbohydrate.

[Luna]

If it is the format people enjoy why not just drink the format :X?
(Never drank alcohol yet ^^)

[JLL]

If it is the format people enjoy why not just drink the format :X?
(Never drank alcohol yet ^^)

As in drinking non-alcoholic beer? Sure, but many of them don't taste as good as the real thing, because the process of removing alcohol also removes other things that affect the taste. And of course, you would lose the fuzzy feeling alcohol gives you - which is a separate thing from the taste.

In other words, there are two sides to the coin: one is that some alcoholic beverages actually taste good; it's not so much the alcohol itself but the rest of the compounds that come with it. The second is that alcohol makes you feel good (if that's your thing), which is directly related to the alcohol and not so much the format.

[platypus]

Alcohol has it's place but it's not mind-expanding like the psychedelics. I think it's a pity if people refrain from exploration of altered states of consciousness as mind-expansion/exploration can be highly educational.

[nootrope]

Was there any distinction of the source of alcohol? Maybe red wine is healthier than, say, vodka. Also, red wine may protect against dementia. It contains anthocyanins as well as resveratrol.

Even moderate alcohol consumption of more than two drinks a week may raise the risk of cancer, according to a new study.

http://www.abcnews.g...e...9629&page=1

[nootrope]

Aaaand..... There's this study out today. Wine may decrease the risk of a precursor to esophageal cancer by 56%.

Edited by nootrope, 07 March 2009 - 06:22 AM.

[dehbleh]

Time to give up the booze you ask?

Never!

No supplement I've tried comes close to the effects of a good red wine.

Since indulging in 2 glasses per day, I have had a significant drop in resting blood pressure. So much so that I'm down to 20mg of Propranolol a day. Previously I was taking 100mg Propranolol and 2.5mg of Coversyl.

6 months prior: average resting blood pressure was around 135/75
present: average resting blood pressure is 115/60

It's also makes a great night cap :-)