13 replies to this topic

[Skötkonung]

I was curious if it was my dietary habits or my anti-glycation supplements that gave me a very low reading on my hemoglobin A1c test.

My A1c came back at around 4%.

I'm on:
-Benfotiamine 160mg
-Pyridoxamine - 50mg
-Alpha lipoic acid and Acetyl-l-carnitine - 400mg / 1000mg
-Carnosine - 1000mg
-IP6 - 1000mg (for my hemochromatosis)
-Creatine - 10g (for weight lifting)

I also follow a paleo type diet.

My doctor seemed concerned that my A1c was too low, but I am thinking that my supplements and dietary restriction are doing their job. Could I be harming myself with such a low A1c?

[stephen_b]

My doctor seemed concerned that my A1c was too low, but I am thinking that my supplements and dietary restriction are doing their job. Could I be harming myself with such a low A1c?

Since A1c is used to measure cumulative glucose exposure in the recent past, I'm wondering if your doctor thinks that you have low blood sugar. Absent an unhealthy blood sugar, I can't think of a reason why low A1c would be bad.

StephenB

[fatboy]

My A1c came back at around 4%.

As a diagnosed metabolic-syndrome, pre-diabetic 46 yo hypognadal male, ... fuck you ... and God Speed.

[Skötkonung]

My doctor seemed concerned that my A1c was too low, but I am thinking that my supplements and dietary restriction are doing their job. Could I be harming myself with such a low A1c?

Since A1c is used to measure cumulative glucose exposure in the recent past, I'm wondering if your doctor thinks that you have low blood sugar. Absent an unhealthy blood sugar, I can't think of a reason why low A1c would be bad.

StephenB

I'm also wondering that since most adults tend to eat quite a bit of refined sugar and my diet is very low in carbohydrates, my A1c could be considerably lower than he is used to seeing. I would be interested to see what other adherents of paleo-type diets or who use anti-glycation supplements are reporting for their A1c?

I did find this testimonial regarding the paleo-diet:

My A1C numbers were around 7 when this started (6-7 on this scale are "pre-diabetic", over 7 is diabetic), as of 2 months ago the number dropped to 5.2, within the normal range. My insulin levels are low. I now rarely check my sugars on a regular basis as I can tell by how I feel if they are rising.

I also found some evidence that high protein diets tend to decreased A1c:

Patients on the high-protein diet also fared better in terms of decrease in glycated hemoglobin (0.8% vs. 0.3%; P < .05); greater rate of change over time (P < .001); and lower fasting triacylglycerol (P < .03).

...

"The substitution of dietary protein for carbohydrate may improve glycemic control without increasing the risk of atherosclerosis," he writes.

http://www.medscape....warticle/462490

Benfotiamine didn't seem to lower A1c values in this study, but it did control neuropathy:

Effectiveness of different benfotiamine dosage regimens in the treatment of painful diabetic neuropathy.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10219465

If anyone has test results to share, please do.

As a diagnosed metabolic-syndrome, pre-diabetic 46 yo hypognadal male, ... fuck you ... and God Speed.

I hope things improve for you.

Edited by shawn57187, 11 March 2009 - 08:33 PM.

[nameless]

I remember reading somewhere that pycnogenol (or grapeseed) had some affect on A1c, but I'm not aware of antiglycation supplements lowering it.

I'd guess it's probably mostly your diet, not supplements. It'd be interesting if Duke would post his A1c numbers here.

Before diet and supplement changes, my A1c was 5.4. After retesting last summer, I had a 4.5 A1c, but I'm hardly on a Paleo diet, and the only supplement I take that could affect it (I think) would be grapeseed. I'm not sure what type of diet I'd be classified under, as I do eat a decent amount of fruits, oats, and such, and probably a small amount of snacks from time to time that aren't exactly super sugar-friendly. I guess maybe I'd be on what would be called a no-junkfood diet.

But I wonder, what is the ideal A1c level?

[stephen_b]

But I wonder, what is the ideal A1c level?

Why not 0%? I don't think that glycated hemoglobin has any use.

My last reading was 5.4% in May of last year. Since then I've started eating at least a bit more paleo (more meat and coconut oil) and started with pyridoxamine. I'll be testing in May of this year again.

StephenB

[pycnogenol]

My A1c was 6.1 last Fall but with walking nearly every day, weight reduction, careful diet/portion control and taking Benfotiamine in the range of 100-250 mg (among other supplements) with my dinner meal I'm now at 5.6

I'm going to order some Life Extension stabilized R-Lipoic Acid 300 mg strength and see if I can further lower it. I've already lengthened my walking regimen.

Edited by pycnogenol, 11 March 2009 - 10:22 PM.

[chabbo]

I recall that alpha lipoic acid is an insulin mimic and pyridoxamine also allegedly has a blood glucose lowering effect in some diabetics. I found that pyridoxamine actually increases my glucose levels by somehow stimulating my liver to dump glucose into my blood system. My guess would be the ALA having that effect, in addition to your diet, exercise, etc.


Manny

[pycnogenol]

I found that pyridoxamine actually increases my glucose levels by somehow stimulating my liver to dump glucose into my blood system.

Interesting. I didn't realize pyridoxamine could increase glucose levels. How much pyridoxamine did you take to cause this?

Does p-5-p (pyridoxal 5'-phosphate) also cause glucose levels to increase as well?

[Skötkonung]

But I wonder, what is the ideal A1c level?

Why not 0%? I don't think that glycated hemoglobin has any use.

According to this study (The clinical information value of the glycosylated hemoglobin assay: PMID 6690962) the lowest range for healthy A1c is 4%.

This article (Hemoglobin A1c Test) indicates the normal range to be 4-5.9 %. Having A1c lower than that level appears to be a indicative of hypoglycaemia, and people with "shortened red blood cell life span, such as with glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase deficiency, sickle-cell disease, or any other condition causing premature red blood cell death."

My test came back at 3.9 precisely, so it was probably cause for minor alarm. I am getting re-tested next week as my doctor wants to confirm my results. Honestly, I'm not worried though, I think it is my low sugar and high fat intake that keeps my blood sugar low. The only symptom I can report of hypoglycaemia is frequent coldness of my extremities, but nothing uncomfortable.

I wonder what hunter-gatherer tribes report for A1c? I looked through some studies and the best I could find was one on a group of modern living Native Americans who took store bought food and lived in the wilderness for three weeks. Hardly a good indication of what paleo or CR living individuals would have for A1c.

[RoadToAwe]

Since you mentioned Hemochromatosis I am wondering if you donate blood frequently. That could skew A1C.

[Skötkonung]

Since you mentioned Hemochromatosis I am wondering if you donate blood frequently. That could skew A1C.

Good question, I haven't had phlebotomies for quite awhile. I get them every 6 months to a year depending on my ferritin levels. Lately I've been able to go longer due to the IP6, which chelates iron.

[albedo]

I associate the only time I succeeded to bring A1C (slightly) under 5 was when I meticulously followed The Zone diet (hence a moderately increase of proteins). I am taking almost all the supplements you quoted but could not find an association for me. I also recently discovered high iron (while ferritin looks normal). I also taking IP6 and curious to know more about the effect on iron: can you point me to some re fence for this? Thank you.

[stephen_b]

Robb Wolf has also cited a study that he used to make the claim that a paleo diet like he follows will result in higher levels of A1C. The reason he gave is that red blood cells hang around longer, which somewhat lowers the usefulness of the hbA1c test for people following the diet. I'd like to find out which specific study he was talking about.