17 replies to this topic

[nameless]

I am considering protein powders, and have some questions that I hope someone can help me with.

First, is whey protein considered the best form of protein powder? I'm not interested in muscle building or things like that, but just general health. I'm also not talking about tons of protein, just a little extra daily. What health benefits does whey possess over vegetarian proteins (rice, pea)?

I went over some old whey threads here regarding recommended brands, and it seemed like half a dozen were listed. I also have some confusion over how whey is processed. Is an isolate or concentrate the better form? The brands I am considering are Jarrow, Biochem, and Designer Whey. Is one considered better than the other?

And... are there any health concerns? Two off the top of my head could be casein and methionine. Casein should be low to non-existent in most wheys (I think), with concentrates having a small amount, while good isolates having none at all... right?

For methionine... that is only an issue if the methionine restriction/life extension theory holds up in people. Any concerns there, and I suppose there is no such thing as a low methionine whey or protein powder?

[VespeneGas]

Whey protein is an excellent dietary source of cysteine, which gets converted into glutathione, which does a bunch of good things. It is much more bioavailable than vegetarian sources, so you get more bang per gram. I've never heard about a low-methionine whey product, but unless you're practicing calorie/methionine restriction, that shouldn't be an issue.

I've always bought isolates, primarily because I don't like casein interfering with polyphenol (blueberry, green tea, cocoa) absorption.

[tunt01]

from a prior thread on this topic:

http://www.rimkor7.com/lowcost.php

Jarrow comes out on top in this analysis.

[nameless]

Thanks for the responses:

Jarrow's is a concentrate though, right? So does it contain casein?

I've never heard about a low-methionine whey product, but unless you're practicing calorie/methionine restriction, that shouldn't be an issue.

True. It's probably just me being super careful, but if the theory is correct, in the back of my mind I wonder if: low methionine = good, so high methionine = bad.

[tunt01]

I've spent some time on this protein source question due to the same issue you are bringing up - methionine. I previously analyzed about 5 whey protein powders, and they were all about 1.1-1.3% methionine as a % of total protein. There was minimal variation amongst vendors. I think I found one vendor that was sub 1% but it was such a weird name that I didn't have confidence in them as a vendor.

When you compare any whey protein brand to your other available sources, you are pretty much coming out ahead.

Here are other protein sources and their methionine %, as you can see non-animal products come out on top.






Note: Each is measured as 100g of sourced product.
Source: USDA nutrient lab database - http://www.nal.usda....oodcomp/search/

Edited by prophets, 17 July 2009 - 02:12 AM.

[tunt01]

i incorrectly remembered in my prior post what the Whey figures were when I last looked at them. Whey is not 1.1-1.3%, they are higher - closer to 2%.



I've noted one product at the bottom called "Big One" by Professional Dietetics. It is an Italian product - capsules, not whey protein. It's a complete amino acid formula in pill form. I read about it in a study about sarcopenia. They used this product to treat sarcopenia induced in rats. It has 1.25% methionine content. Perhaps something for us to aspire to find in the perfect protein mix.

Italian Site, translated to English:

http://translate.goo...v...sl=it&tl=en

Edited by prophets, 17 July 2009 - 04:10 AM.

[nameless]

Thanks for the methionine info. It is probably a moot issue, as I'm not on CR or methionine restriction. Or at least I should say I don't practice it on purpose... but I do notice my diet is a bit low on the protein side of things. I also eat a decent amount of Quorn, which I think isn't so bad methionine-wise.

But I'm not 100% sure if adding extra protein/methionine is really a good idea either.

One could sort of go piecemeal, and supplement separate amino acids to get at least of the portion of what is found in whey (without methionine), but besides being a pain to do with lots of capsules, I'm not sure if there would be a real point to it.

Are there any rodent studies that show excess methionine decreasing lifespan? Just because low methionine may increase lifespan, it doesn't necessarily mean the opposite is true where excess decreases it. Although it is something I've wondered about as a possibility.

And I'm still unsure regarding concentrates vs isolates. Any benefit using one over another? Besides the casein, that is, which is actually something that I consider important. What do people think of Designer Whey? Sort of leaning towards it, as it's pretty cheap at Vitamin Shoppe (and I have a coupon for it too).

Edited by nameless, 17 July 2009 - 04:43 AM.

[ironchet]

Whey concentrate has lactose, which gives me explosive gas (not fun). Most whey isolate has very low or no lactose at all so if you're lactose intolerant stick with the isolate form.

[FunkOdyssey]

I use a custom mix from trueprotein.com, 100% whey protein isolate (CFM) with aminogen (proteolytic enzymes), electrolytes, premium vanilla flavor and stevia sweetener. I make shakes with about 35g of protein and 1.5 Tbsp MCT Oil.

[Happy Gringo]

1.5 Tbsp MCT Oil? What is your reasoning behind that? I was adding 1 tablespoon of coconut oil to my shakes for awhile until I ran out. It was tasty, but I didn't notice any added energy at the gym.

[Athanasios]

I use a custom mix from trueprotein.com, 100% whey protein isolate (CFM) with aminogen (proteolytic enzymes), electrolytes, premium vanilla flavor and stevia sweetener. I make shakes with about 35g of protein and 1.5 Tbsp MCT Oil.

Right on. I use them as well. For my shakes or oatmeal, I have deferred to zoolander and his desired mix:

40% Whey Protein Isolate Cold Filtered, 30% Micellar Casein, 10% Creatine (3g), 10% Glutamine (3g), 5% Arginine (1.5g), 5% Taurine (1.5g)

[FunkOdyssey]

1.5 Tbsp MCT Oil? What is your reasoning behind that? I was adding 1 tablespoon of coconut oil to my shakes for awhile until I ran out. It was tasty, but I didn't notice any added energy at the gym.

Added fat slows gastric emptying and should slow absorption of the whey protein without having to use more allergenic and polyphenol-binding casein, also a good source of easily digested extra calories with favorable effects on body composition, and the caprylic acid component helps prevent yeast overgrowth from my continuous antibiotic therapy.

[kilgoretrout]

And I'm still unsure regarding concentrates vs isolates. Any benefit using one over another? Besides the casein, that is, which is actually something that I consider important. What do people think of Designer Whey? Sort of leaning towards it, as it's pretty cheap at Vitamin Shoppe (and I have a coupon for it too).

I use Designer Whey... It has has an extremely advanced formula that I find quite impressive. I am especially impressed by the BCCA'a, the GMPs including lactoferrin, the Full Spectrum Peptides, and other aspects. Plus I have tried lots of others and it mixes easiest, and tastes best. They have been doing this longer than anyone else and have had alot of time to perfect it. Their Vanilla mixed into Orange Juice makes an incredible tasting smoothie that is really smooth and not grainy like som eother brands I tried that with. I guess the satement "America's #1 Whey Protein" means it is the best selling?"

Here is an part of their FAQ containing answers I thought members here might be most interested in:


Does DESIGNER WHEY protein powder contain whey protein concentrate and whey protein isolate?
DESIGNER WHEY Protein products are processed using the most advanced technology available. They contain both whey protein concentrate and whey protein isolate to ensure that you receive a full spectrum of whey peptides.
What is the amino acid make-up of the DESIGNER WHEY Protein Products?
Branched Chain Amino Acids DW (mg per serving)Isoleucine1020Leucine2219Valine900Total BCAA's4139 Essential Amino AcidsLysine1740Threonine1080Methionine363Phenylalanine660Tryptophan360Total Essential Amino Acids8342 Conditionally Essential Amino AcidsArginine 480Histidine 303 Non-Essential Amino AcidsAlanine900Aspartic Acid2021Cysteine360Glutamic Acid3126Glycine303Proline843Serine720Tyrosine602Total Cond. Ess./ Non-Ess. Amino Acids9658
What are Full Spectrum Whey Peptides?
Full Spectrum Whey Peptides are DESIGNER WHEY's proprietary blend of a complete spectrum of very low, low, medium and high molecular weight whey peptides. These peptides make up the major and minor fractions of specially prepared whey protein. Beta-Lactoglobulin (~55-60%) is the largest protein fraction of whey and rich in branched chain amino acids, necessary to fuel muscle growth.

Alpha-Lactalbumin (~15-25%) is a low molecular weight peptide that is easily digested allowing faster absorption and uptake into muscles.

Glycomacropeptides (~10-20%) stimulate the release of CCK, a hormone that signals the brain "you're full", helping to reduce your appetite.

Immunoglobulins (~1-2%), as the name implies, may help to bolster the immune system.

Bovine Serum Albumin peptides (~1-2.5%) are rich in the precursors necessary for the production of glutathione - the body's most important antioxidant. Research has shown whey protein increases glutathione levels in the body.16

Lactoferrin, lactoperoxidase and lysozyme (~1%) have antimicrobial properties.


Can I use DESIGNER WHEY if I am lactose intolerant?
Our whey protein products contain extremely low levels of lactose (less than 3%)--much lower than the levels reported to cause discomfort in people with lactose intolerance. A small number of people are allergic to milk proteins. The majority of these individuals are allergic to casein. DESIGNER WHEY does not contain any casein. However, some individuals may also be allergic to other milk proteins, such as lactoglobulin. Whey contains lacatoglobulin, so there is a very small chance of an allergic reaction to whey.
What are glycomacropeptides?
Glycomacropeptides (GMPs) are nature's richest source of critical muscle-building, anti-catabolic branched chain amino acids, and aid dieters in weight loss by releasing CCK, a powerful hormone that suppresses appetite.
What is the Biological Value of DESIGNER WHEY protein?
Biological Value (BV) is a measure of nitrogen (protein) retained for growth and/or tissue maintenance. The higher the BV, the higher the nitrogen retention. The BV of common food protein is based upon a study by Renner.18 This study demonstrated that whey protein had the highest biological value of all food-grade proteins at 104. For comparison, consider the BV of these other food proteins: soy=74, casein=77, egg=100.
What is the glycemic index? What is DESIGNER WHEY protein's glycemic index?
The Glycemic index refers to how a food, usually a carbohydrate, affects your body's blood sugar (glucose). Proteins and fats, by nature, have little effect on blood sugar response. Research shows that protein-only meals produce either a small rise in blood glucose or no effect on blood glucose. In short, consumption of protein appears to have a negligible effect on blood sugar. Based on existing research DESIGNER WHEY probably falls between 10 and 30 on the glycemic index. The precise glucose response will vary from person to person depending upon factors including: the individual's body composition, fitness level, and emotional state; other foods eaten with DESIGNER WHEY; and whether food is already present in the stomach.


Are DESIGNER WHEY Protein products lactose free?
All DESIGNER WHEY products are 97% lactose free and suitable for most anyone with lactose intolerances.
Do any DESIGNER WHEY products contain gluten?
All of our DESIGNER WHEY Powders, regardless of flavor, are gluten free. DESIGNER WHEY is a pure whey protein derived from cow's milk, and does not contain any traces of gluten, wheat, corn, rye, or any other grain. There is no possibility of cross contamination as the manufacturing facility we use does not mix or bottle any products that contain any form of grains. Our Aria Women's Protein, 50% whey combined with 50% soy, is also gluten free.
Do any DESIGNER WHEY Protein products contain peanut allergens?
All of our DESIGNER WHEY Protein powders are peanut free and do not come into contact with any peanut products during the packaging process. This applies to all flavors, including Chocolate Peanut Caramel! Therefore you can readily enjoy our whey protein powders without being concerned about experiencing an allergic reaction.
What is bovine serum albumin? Bovine serum albumin (BSA) gets its name from the Latin name for whey: serum lactis. In the dictionary you will also find that "serum" means "whey." Bovine serum albumin is a naturally occurring minor protein/peptide found in whey protein, and therefore, in cow's milk as well. Simply put, bovine serum albumin is a milk protein. If you currently drink cow's milk, you are consuming bovine serum albumin. Bovine serum albumin is one of the protein fractions that make whey protein so uniquely beneficial for health. BSA is rich in cysteine residues that are necessary for the production of glutathione-the body's most important antioxidant. Research shows that glutathione acts as an antioxidant, protecting cells against free radicals that can cause cancer and accelerate aging. Glutathione may also help to enhance your immune system.


What is the lecithin in DESIGNER WHEY products derived from?
The lecithin in our DESIGNER WHEY products is derived from soy. DESIGNER WHEY contains only 240 mg of soy lecithin per serving of our protein powder. If you are allergic to soy this may or may not fall into the same category of soy protein that would potentially disqualify you from consuming this product. We suggest that you consult your physician to determine whether this derivative of soy would affect you in a negative manner.
Why should I take DESIGNER WHEY Protein products instead of other proteins
In a word: results. The whey protein in DESIGNER WHEY Protein has produced bigger and better results than any other protein supplement in history-up to 3 times better than regular whey proteins. Not only is whey the easiest protein to absorb, it also lowers cholesterol and helps to build strong bones. DESIGNER WHEY is a complete protein containing all 8 essential amino acids. And thanks to an advanced ultra-filtration technology, DESIGNER WHEY contains all the major fractions of whey as well as additional fractions with significant health benefits, including glycomacropeptides, which can aid dieters in curbing and controlling their cravings, and lactoferrin, which boosts the immune system.

How can DESIGNER WHEY Protein products help improve my exercise results?
DESIGNER WHEY Protein is the best protein supplement available for athletes and exercisers. Three separate university studies have proven that DESIGNER WHEY increases lean muscle while decreasing body fat. On average, these studies found that DESIGNER WHEY helped slash body fat 5.4 lbs and increased lean muscle mass 18.8 lbs when used in conjunction with a systematic workout program.
Are DESIGNER WHEY Protein products the same as regular 100% whey protein? While DESIGNER WHEY is derived from 100% whey protein, its formula is designed to produce even greater results. For instance, DESIGNER WHEY delivers a precise blend of three separate, partially pre-digested whey proteins that make up our Full Spectrum Whey Peptide Blend. Peptides have been proven in clinical science to be the body's preferred source of digestible nitrogen. DESIGNER WHEY is also L-glutamine enhanced, providing over 2 grams of moisture stable anticatabolic glutamine in every 2-scoop serving. In addition, each serving contains ZinMag-6, a powerful blend of ingredients shown in clinical research to help increase performance, including improved strength, power, and recovery.

You say DESIGNER WHEY Protein products are clinically tested. How so?

DESIGNER WHEY has been tested in several clinical studies and is considered by many to be the most researched protein available.

DESIGNER WHEY has been shown to help promote muscle growth and fat loss in carefully controlled settings. In 3 separate university studies, athletes (both men and women) who supplemented their diet with DESIGNER WHEY gained on average 18.8 lbs of lean muscle and lost an average of 5.4 lbs. of body fat after weeks of systematic exercise training. In one double-blind study, DESIGNER WHEY was compared head-to-head with regular whey protein.

After just 28 days, subjects taking DESIGNER WHEY gained over 3 times more lean mass, while doubling their fat loss compared to the regular whey group. These results make it easy to see why DESIGNER WHEY has been #1 in protein since 1993.

DESIGNER WHEY has been proven to be an effective treatment for renal dialysis patients. After 3 months, patients using DESIGNER WHEY improved their serum albumin levels (a health marker) by 9%.

In a study conducted at Case Western Reserve University, laboratory animals fed a diet of DESIGNER WHEY had a 60% reduction of cancerous tumors of the head and neck when also treated with photodynamic therapy.

Researchers are currently evaluating whether DESIGNER WHEY may offer similar benefits to human patients with cancer of the head and neck.

Further, we are continuously participating in university and medical research to examine the proper levels of protein intake and possible health benefits for health conscious individuals like you.

What is denaturation & are DESIGNER WHEY products made with non-denatured protein? DESIGNER WHEY contains virtually all non-denatured protein. However, exposing protein to extreme temperature (hot or cold) will denature the protein to a certain degree. Heating whey protein to temperatures above 140 degrees Fahrenheit (60 degrees Celsius) will result in denaturation. Repeated freezing and thawing of a protein solution can also result in denaturation. This, however, does not mean that the amount of protein in the product is diminished. Denaturation can affect biological value (bioavailability) and may slow the digestion and absorption of the protein; but denatured protein will still retain its full nutritional value and amino acid composition. DESIGNER WHEY is an excellent source of all essential and non-essential amino acids; therefore, even if it is denatured, it is still a very high-quality protein source.

Are the DESIGNER WHEY Protein products kosher? NEXT Proteins has not gone through the process to have our products officially certified as kosher.

[kilgoretrout]

Very good article from Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, full text at below link, much of interest here, scientific research oriented:

http://www.pubmedcen...tid=2129148#top

J Int Soc Sports Nutr > v.2(2); 2005AbstractFull TextPDF (55K)ContentsArchiveRelated material:PubMed recordPubMed related artsPubMed LinkOut
PubMed articles by:Williams, M.J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2005; 2(2): 63–67. Published online 2005 December 9. doi: 10.1186/1550-2783-2-2-63.PMCID: PMC2129148Copyright © 2005 A National Library of Congress Indexed JournalDietary Supplements and Sports Performance: Amino AcidsMelvin Williams¹¹Exercise Science, Sport, Physical Education, and Recreation, Old Dominion University, Norfolk, VACorresponding author.Melvin Williams: profrunner@aol.com Received October 9, 2005; Accepted November 4, 2005.

AbstractThis is the third in a series of six articles to discuss the major classes of dietary supplements (vitamins; minerals; amino acids; herbs or botanicals; metabolites, constituents/extracts, or combinations). The major focus is on efficacy of such dietary supplements to enhance exercise or sport performance.Keywords: ergogenic aids, sports supplements, protein

Dietary Protein and Protein Supplements
Amino Acids: Ergogenic Theoryhttp://www.pubmedcen...129148#id813461
http://www.pubmedcen...129148#id624078Whey Protein and Colostrumhttp://www.pubmedcen...129148#id813461
http://www.pubmedcen...129148#id624176Safety, Legalityhttp://www.pubmedcen...129148#id813461
http://www.pubmedcen...129148#id624209Referenceshttp://www.pubmedcen...129148#id813461

[nameless]

Thanks for all the replies. TrueProtein looks sort of neat there, although I don't really know enough about whey to make my own powder properly.

For a second I thought the thread vanished, but I see it was moved into the vendor area for some reason. I guess because specific products are mentioned? Just seems odd, as past whey & numerous supplement threads mentioned products too.

One last whey question, which is sort of a dumb question that I think I know the answer to anyway: I assume it's fine to heat up/cook whey powder? I was thinking of putting some whey in with my oat bran muffin mix, to sort of 'protein-them-up'. No problems doing that, right?

Edited by nameless, 17 July 2009 - 11:25 PM.

[nameless]

Found this article about different wheys:

http://www.fitnessat..._hard_facts.htm

Don't know if it's 100% accurate, and it is a muscle-oriented site (as anyone can tell by all the musclebound people), but the basic advice seems to be to avoid concentrates, and go for microfiltered isolates. Designer has a lot of concentrate in it, if one goes by cholesterol levels in the product. And the cholesterol may be oxidized.

Biochem looks pretty clean, may go with that instead.

[Atropy]

Best bang for buck Whey Protein Isolate I have found is is Now Whey protein Isolate Unflavoured.

Edited by Atropy, 15 June 2013 - 12:07 AM.

[zorba990]

Native Whey Isolate from protein factory is my current favorite. Less denatured since it is processed directly from milk.