9 replies to this topic

[j03]

I hate to sound like I am promoting any drug, but I tried the drug Modafinil recently and it works for me personally. I suffered from ADD and anhedonic feelings and they seem to be lifted the last few days.

However, I got a persistent case of social phobia. What would be a safe and effective adjunct to this? I have propranolol on hand, but I read a few things that stated they arn't too safe to mix. I'm also taking baclofen, and buspar. I take the buspar solely for bruxism, and it does nothing for anxiety even in high doses... so maybe switching that for clonazepam? Would it help bruxism symptoms as well as buspar has?

Any advice appreciated

Edit: Opps wow wrong forum. It's late here, sorry. I meant to post this in the Nootropic forum, so if a moderator could move it it would be appreciated

Edited by j03, 01 September 2009 - 08:30 AM.

[KimberCT]

After suffering from a surprise benzo addiction, I try and steer everyone away from drugs like clonazepam. The damn things got me hooked on them good after 3 weeks of use, so I try and leave my poor GABA receptors alone.

Tolerance to clozaepam, baclofen, and even propranolol all build pretty quickly and need to be tapered off.

Buspar never did anything for my anxiety either, but if it is working for the bruxism... why not just add an SSRI for the social phobia and drop everything else?

There's dozens of supplements you could try (magnesium, taurine, bacopa, ashwagandha, etc. etc.), but in my experience they're nothing compared to Lexapro.

[j03]

Modofinal is the only thing I've tried that has given me a boost without side effects like bruxism. Every SSRI made my bruxism unmanageable. Actually, it was Effexor that started that. Most SSRI's didn't work either. Wellbutrin made me feel like I do right now on Modofinal, however, it brought my bruxism to unbearable levels even buspar didn't help. I might try Wellbutrin again when Gabitril comes on the market in Canada (it reportedly stops Wellbutrin induced bruxism), but for now I'm happy with what i have

I think I am noticing vasoconstriction (less erect), and I was up until 8AM last night. So those are two major sides I need to watch. Otherwise though, I feel pretty good today.

I'm still nervous and awkward in public. It's to the point where I'm self conscious and it's ruining my quality of life, so that's something i want to deal with

Edited by j03, 01 September 2009 - 09:47 PM.

[Zoroaster]

The only interactions I'm aware of between modafinil and propanolol would be the fact that modafinil inhibits p450 and would thus slow the metabolism of propanolol, extending its duration of action. But this shouldn't be a problem since propanolol has a very broad therapeutic range and is not that easy to overdose on unless you have asthma. If you aren't taking propanolol regularly then you should notice help with your social anxiety even at the lowest doses.

I take atenolol (another beta-blocker) occasionally for heart palpatations and off label for social anxiety. I take a single low-dose pill, which is something like 1/5th the daily dose of many people on atenolol and it works wonders in social situations. If you're talking about the kind of physical social anxiety, where you can feel your adrenalin pumping, your mouth getting dry, heart thumping, etc, there is nothing better than beta-blockers. If your social anxiety is something different than it might not be the best choice.

Still, you're taking several medications so you should run it past your doctor if you're thinking of taking something new. I'd also echo the advice to stay away from benzos if possible. I took clonazapam for a while and it wasn't great. The side effects were more pronounced than the desired effect. Beta blockers outperformed clonazapam for me ten fold when it came to anxiety, but once again it depends on the type of your anxiety.

[j03]

Anyone notice vasoconstriction with Modafinal? I.E being significantly less erect?

[skinniest200]

I would up the baclofen or add phenibut, but only when the social anxiety is real bad. Both should work good for social anxiety, and GABA-B agonists increase the effects of modafinil, whereas GABA-A agonists (and probably benzos) reduce the effects of modafinil.

Eur J Pharmacol. 1996 Jun 13;306(1-3):33-9.

The vigilance promoting drug modafinil increases dopamine release in the rat
nucleus accumbens via the involvement of a local GABAergic mechanism.

Ferraro L, Tanganelli S, O'Connor WT, Antonelli T, Rambert F, Fuxe K.

Institute of Pharmacology, University of Ferrara, Italy.

The present in vivo microdialysis study demonstrated that the subcutaneous
injection of modafinil (diphenyl-methyl-sulfinyl-2-acetamide) in doses of 30-300
mg/kg dose dependently increased dopamine release from the intermediate level of
the nucleus accumbens along the rostro-caudal axis of the halothane anaesthetized
rat. The effect of modafinil in a dose of 100 mg/kg was counteracted by the local
perfusion in the nucleus accumbens with the GABAB receptor antagonist phaclofen
(beta-p-chlorophenyl-gamma-aminopropyl-phosphonic acid) (50 microM), the GABAA
agonist muscimol (3-hydroxy-5-aminomethyl-isoxazolol) (10 microM) and the
neuronal GABA reuptake inhibitor SKF89976A (4,4-diphenyl-3-butenyl-nipecotic
acid) (0.1 microM), whereas it was increased by the GABAB receptor agonist
(-)-baclofen [beta-(p-chlorophenyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid)] (10 microM). In
addition, the modafinil-induced increase of dopamine release was associated with
a significant reduction of accumbens GABA release. These results suggest that the
dopamine releasing action of modafinil in the rat nucleus accumbens is secondary
to its ability to reduce local GABAergic transmission, which leads to a reduction
of GABAA receptor signaling on the dopamine terminals.


PMID: 8813612 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[ZenBuddha]

I would up the baclofen or add phenibut, but only when the social anxiety is real bad. Both should work good for social anxiety, and GABA-B agonists increase the effects of modafinil, whereas GABA-A agonists (and probably benzos) reduce the effects of modafinil.

Eur J Pharmacol. 1996 Jun 13;306(1-3):33-9.

The vigilance promoting drug modafinil increases dopamine release in the rat
nucleus accumbens via the involvement of a local GABAergic mechanism.

Ferraro L, Tanganelli S, O'Connor WT, Antonelli T, Rambert F, Fuxe K.

Institute of Pharmacology, University of Ferrara, Italy.

The present in vivo microdialysis study demonstrated that the subcutaneous
injection of modafinil (diphenyl-methyl-sulfinyl-2-acetamide) in doses of 30-300
mg/kg dose dependently increased dopamine release from the intermediate level of
the nucleus accumbens along the rostro-caudal axis of the halothane anaesthetized
rat. The effect of modafinil in a dose of 100 mg/kg was counteracted by the local
perfusion in the nucleus accumbens with the GABAB receptor antagonist phaclofen
(beta-p-chlorophenyl-gamma-aminopropyl-phosphonic acid) (50 microM), the GABAA
agonist muscimol (3-hydroxy-5-aminomethyl-isoxazolol) (10 microM) and the
neuronal GABA reuptake inhibitor SKF89976A (4,4-diphenyl-3-butenyl-nipecotic
acid) (0.1 microM), whereas it was increased by the GABAB receptor agonist
(-)-baclofen [beta-(p-chlorophenyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid)] (10 microM). In
addition, the modafinil-induced increase of dopamine release was associated with
a significant reduction of accumbens GABA release. These results suggest that the
dopamine releasing action of modafinil in the rat nucleus accumbens is secondary
to its ability to reduce local GABAergic transmission, which leads to a reduction
of GABAA receptor signaling on the dopamine terminals.


PMID: 8813612 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I have social Phobia. I am now combining Modafinil-Piracetam-Propranolol-Ltheanine-Sulbitiamine. I can say it works. I am feelin much better

[j03]

Also, this is the 5th night in a row I've been up until 6Am

Insomnia, and erectile difficulties. Anyone get this? Any way to assuage these things?

Otherwise I feel good. What a shame about these two side though.

[jpars82]

Sorry to get off track but I have a question for you.

Have you found the Buspar to have any negative/positive effect on your ADD?

The reason I ask is because a metabolite of Buspirone, 1-(2-pyrimidinyl)-piperazine, is an alpha 2-adrenoreceptor antagonist. Where as Intuniv(guanfacine), is an alpha 2-adrenoreceptor agonist prescribed for ADHD.

I was wondering if the Buspar could make some ADD symptoms worse.
But, then I've also read a study where Buspirone was effective on some ADHD symptoms in children.

As far as your anxiety goes... that's a tough one. I deal with Social Anxiety Disorder myself. For me, there hasn't really been any good treatments. Klonopin has been somewhat helpful before, but I couldn't tolerate the memory problems and anhedonia it gave me. Perhaps, your modafinil would counteract that. I wish they'd do some more research into Social Phobia. For being the third most common psychiatric disorder, they sure don't seem to be focusing a lot of research on it.

Edited by jparsell82, 04 September 2009 - 07:17 PM.

[j03]

Sorry to get off track but I have a question for you.

Have you found the Buspar to have any negative/positive effect on your ADD?

The reason I ask is because a metabolite of Buspirone, 1-(2-pyrimidinyl)-piperazine, is an alpha 2-adrenoreceptor antagonist. Where as Intuniv(guanfacine), is an alpha 2-adrenoreceptor agonist prescribed for ADHD.

I was wondering if the Buspar could make some ADD symptoms worse.
But, then I've also read a study where Buspirone was effective on some ADHD symptoms in children.

As far as your anxiety goes... that's a tough one. I deal with Social Anxiety Disorder myself. For me, there hasn't really been any good treatments. Klonopin has been somewhat helpful before, but I couldn't tolerate the memory problems and anhedonia it gave me. Perhaps, your modafinil would counteract that. I wish they'd do some more research into Social Phobia. For being the third most common psychiatric disorder, they sure don't seem to be focusing a lot of research on it.

I don't think it increased ADD symptoms. I don't feel any mental effect from the buspar. I wouldn't even think it's working until i stop and the bruxism returns. it is effective for that thing.