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Supps for Neuropathy?


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#1 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 01:05 AM


I recently had to go off my amitriptyline after upping the LDN to 3mg as the combo was too stimulating and left me feeling miserable. But now I need some stuff to help with the neuropathy. I am taking benfotiamine right now. Any other ideas?

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 02 March 2010 - 01:28 AM.


#2 bocor

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 02:24 AM

YES...Astaxathin itlest 16mg per day and modifilan algae extract is awesome but need 5 grams per day.You can buy bulk kilo from the company for $180..
And dont forget Cannabis

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#3 rwac

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 02:43 AM

Have you tried a full spectrum E ? or plain tocotrienols ?

What about vit C ?

B6, B12 ?

#4 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 09:28 AM

Have you tried a full spectrum E ? or plain tocotrienols ?

What about vit C ?

B6, B12 ?


Haven't tried the full spectrum, but I am taking he other things already.

#5 Johann

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 06:27 PM

dude you should try taking some alcar...

#6 VespeneGas

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 07:28 PM

Lipoic acid has been successfully used to treat peripheral neuropathy in diabetic patients.

#7 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 07:44 PM

I have some ALCAR and it's on my list. I am waiting for the changes I just made to settle down and then I am gonna up the amount of zinc I am taking first.

So, where did the ALCAR/ALA debate end? Is ALA needed with ALCAR? But I take it the benefits of ALA for neuropathy are a separate thing.

I don't know exactly what to call my condition. It's not traditional neuropathy, where it hurts. But it can cause anxiety and anxiety attacks. It's the worst in my hands and feet. When I rub my hands, I feel it in my feet.

All the things that help with neuropathy help with this though, so I just called it neuropathy.

#8 rwac

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 09:57 PM

I can't tell if you're already taking tocotrienols.
Just in case you aren't.

Tocotrienol ameliorates behavioral and biochemical alterations in the rat model of alcoholic neuropathy.

Tiwari V, Kuhad A, Chopra K.

Chronic alcohol consumption produces a painful peripheral neuropathy for which there is no reliable successful therapy, which is mainly due to lack of understanding of its pathobiology. Alcoholic neuropathy is characterized by spontaneous burning pain, hyperalgesia (an exaggerated pain in response to painful stimuli) and allodynia (a pain evoked by normally innocuous stimuli). Chronic alcohol intake is known to decrease the nociceptive threshold with increased oxidative-nitrosative stress and release of proinflammatory cytokines coupled with activation of protein kinase C. The aim of the present study is to investigate the effect of both isoforms of vitamin E, alpha-tocopherol (100mg/kg; oral gavage) and tocotrienol (50, 100 and 200mg/kg; oral gavage) against alcohol-induced neuropathic pain in rats. Male Wistar rats, were administered 35% v/v ethanol (10 g/kg; oral gavage) for 10 weeks, and were treated with alpha-tocopherol and tocotrienol for the same duration. Ethanol-treated animals showed a significant decrease in nociceptive threshold as evident from decreased tail flick latency (thermal hyperalgesia) and decreased paw-withdrawal threshold in Randall-Sellito test (mechanical hyperalgesia) and von-Frey hair test (mechanical allodynia) along with the reduction in nerve glutathione and superoxide dismutase levels. TNF-alpha and IL-1beta levels were also significantly increased in both serum and sciatic nerve of ethanol-treated rats. Treatment with alpha-tocopherol and tocotrienol for 10 weeks significantly improved all the above-stated functional and biochemical deficits in a dose-dependent manner with more potent effects observed with tocotrienol. The study demonstrates the effectiveness of tocotrienol in attenuation of alcoholic neuropathy.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19541419

Titre du document / Document title
Tocotrienol attenuates oxidative-nitrosative stress and inflammatory cascade in experimental model of diabetic neuropathy
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
KUHAD Anurag ; CHOPRA Kanwaljit ;
Résumé / Abstract
Diabetic neuropathic pain, an important microvascular complication in diabetes mellitus, is recognised as one of the most difficult types of pain to treat. The development of tolerance, inadequate relief and potential toxicity of classical antinociceptives warrant the investigation of the newer agents to relieve this pain. Reactive oxygen/nitrogen species, cytokines and apoptosis are implicated in the pathogenesis of diabetic neuropathy. The aim of the present study was to explore the effect oftocotrienol on thermal and mechanical hyperalgesia, allodynia, oxidative-nitrosative stress, inflammation and apoptosis in streptozotocin-induced experimental diabetes. Diabetic rats developed neuropathy which was evident from a marked hyperalgesia and allodynia associated with enhanced nitrosative stress, release of inflammatory mediators (TNF-α, IL-1β, TGF-1β) and caspase-3. Chronic treatment with tocotrienol (25, 50 and 100 mg/kg body weight; p.o.) for 4 weeks starting from the 4th week of streptozotocin injection significantly attenuated behavioral, biochemical and molecular changes associated with diabetic neuropathy. Moreover, diabetic rats treated with insulin-tocotrienol combination produced more pronounced beneficial effect as compared to their per se groups. The major finding of the study is that insulin alone corrected the hyper-glycemia and partially reversed the pain response in diabetic rats. However, combination with tocotrienol not only attenuated the diabetic condition but also reversed neuropathic pain through modulation of oxidative-nitrosative stress, inflammatory cytokine release and caspase-3 in the diabetic rats and thus it may find clinical application to treat neuropathic pain in the diabetic patients.


http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=21905699

Edited by rwac, 02 March 2010 - 09:58 PM.


#9 adamh

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 10:19 PM

There are various threads on this subject. I believe one is about ngf which is a promising compound but impossibly expensive. Then there are compounds which stimulate ngf. NGF is responsible for maintaining nerve health and growth. I have neuritis but you might as well call it neuropathy. I've been taking benfotiamine for a couple years with no noticeable benefit. Likewise with vit e and b complex even in fairly high dose. I've been taking ala and alcar and a bunch of herbs. All you can do is take everything that sounds promising and hope.

I've been taking lions mane which is a mushroom and is supposed to stimulate ngf. I'm taking ashitaba now which is supposed to help. Also rosemary, ginger and various other herbs like ashwaganda and bacopa.

Good luck, come back and tell us if you find anything that works.

#10 KimberCT

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 10:25 PM

Definitely not recommending them, but have you ever taken a benzodiazepine and noticed an improvement in the neuropathy?

#11 pycnogenol

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 11:46 PM

I have a medical condition that is related to neuropathy and for me what helps somewhat is:

A plant-based diet (very important)

R-Lipoic Acid
Omega-3
Benfotiamine
DHEA
Vitamin D-3
Magnesium Glycinate
Vitamin C
Methylcobalamin

I've taken amitriptyline years ago and it did not help. Pamelor, on the other hand, definitely does help.

Edited by pycnogenol, 02 March 2010 - 11:51 PM.


#12 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:02 AM

Amitriptyline helped me way more than nortriptyline (Pamelor). A plant-based diet is impossible for me due to being celiac and further intolerances to soy, nuts, peanuts. Benzos help, but I am looking for a long-term solution.

Once I get to the 4.5mg of LDN in a little under three months now, things should be better.

#13 pycnogenol

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:10 AM

Does Phenibut help with neuropathy? I've never taken it but I guess I'm curious.

Edited by pycnogenol, 03 March 2010 - 12:10 AM.


#14 Lufega

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:55 AM

I am using astragalus powder and gotu kola alcohol extract for my neuropathy. There's research that backs these up.

#15 youandme

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 03:34 AM

Can I ask if the 4.5mg LDN has helped you at all since you started ?...what nearly 3 months ago..

Thx

#16 KimberCT

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:57 PM

Have you tried valproic acid or any of the other anticonvulsants? I'm going to give Depakote a try in a couple weeks.

#17 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 03:39 PM

Can I ask if the 4.5mg LDN has helped you at all since you started ?...what nearly 3 months ago..

Thx


The first time I took LDN, I went to 3mg after a week and then 4.5mg after another week. The benefits to neuropathy and concentration were tremendous (could walk barefooted for once, though it was still there), but the side-effects were horrendous on 4.5mg. Inability to eat, even vomited after eating a banana once. Inability to wake up, took 3 hours. So I did what I mentioned in the OP, and no sides now. I will be going up to 4.5mg on May 14, which is about 3 months since I will have gone up to 3mg. I am very excited. I think combined with other supps and 4.5mg of LDN, neuropathy will be a thing of the past, and so will ADD. I think an endorphin deficiency is one of my main problems, seeing as that it fixes so much.

@Lufega Links please

@KimberCT Depakote made me horribly paranoid and disassociated.

#18 Lufega

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 04:35 PM

@Lufega Links please


Effect of Astragalus membranaceus in rats on peripheral nerve regeneration: in vitro and in vivo studies.Lu MC, Yao CH, Wang SH, Lai YL, Tsai CC, Chen YS.

School of Post Baccalaureate Chinese Medicine, Changhua Christian Hospital, Changhua. lumc@mail.cmu.edu.tw

BACKGROUND: This study provides in vitro and in vivo evaluation of Astragalus membranaceus (AM) on peripheral nerve regeneration. METHODS: In the in vitro study, we analyzed the effects of AM on cell differentiation and neurite outgrowth by using a PC12 cell model. In the in vivo study, silicone rubber chambers filled with the AM water extract were used to bridge a 10-mm sciatic nerve defect in rats. RESULTS: We found that the AM water extract caused a marked enhancement of the nerve growth factor-mediated neurite outgrowth and the expression of growth-associated protein 43 from PC12 cells. Animals from the groups treated with the AM for 8 weeks had a relatively more mature structure with larger mean values of myelinated axon number, endoneurial area, and total nerve area when compared with those in the controls receiving the saline only. CONCLUSION: These results suggest that the silicone rubber tubes present a good framework for the nerve fibers to regenerate across the gap, and the AM extract can be a potential nerve growth-promoting factor, being salutary in aiding the growth of axons in the peripheral nerve.


AM can also inhibit AGe formation.

<h1 class="title">Centella asiatica accelerates nerve regeneration upon oral administration and contains multiple active fractions increasing neurite elongation in-vitro.</h1>Soumyanath A, Zhong YP, Gold SA, Yu X, Koop DR, Bourdette D, Gold BG.

Department of Neurology, Oregon Health & Science University, 3181 SW Sam Jackson Park Road, Portland OR 97239, USA.

Axonal regeneration is important for functional recovery following nerve damage. Centella asiatica Urban herb, also known as Hydrocotyle asiatica L., has been used in Ayurvedic medicine for centuries as a nerve tonic. Here, we show that Centella asiatica ethanolic extract (100 microg mL-1) elicits a marked increase in neurite outgrowth in human SH-SY5Y cells in the presence of nerve growth factor (NGF). However, a water extract of Centella was ineffective at 100 microg mL-1. Sub-fractions of Centella ethanolic extract, obtained through silica-gel chromatography, were tested (100 microg mL-1) for neurite elongation in the presence of NGF. Greatest activity was found with a non-polar fraction (GKF4). Relatively polar fractions (GKF10 to GKF13) also showed activity, albeit less than GKF4. Thus, Centella contains more than one active component. Asiatic acid (AA), a triterpenoid compound found in Centella ethanolic extract and GKF4, showed marked activity at 1 microM (microg mL-1). AA was not present in GKF10 to GKF13, further indicating that other active components must be present. Neurite elongation by AA was completely blocked by the extracellular-signal-regulated kinase (ERK) pathway inhibitor PD 098059 (10 microM). Male Sprague-Dawley rats given Centella ethanolic extract in their drinking water (300-330 mg kg-1 daily) demonstrated more rapid functional recovery and increased axonal regeneration (larger calibre axons and greater numbers of myelinated axons) compared with controls, indicating that the axons grew at a faster rate. Taken together, our findings indicate that components in Centella ethanolic extract may be useful for accelerating repair of damaged neurons.


Edited by Lufega, 03 March 2010 - 04:36 PM.


#19 adamh

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 11:02 PM

I am using astragalus powder and gotu kola alcohol extract for my neuropathy. There's research that backs these up.


Is Astragalus membranaceus the same as Centella asiatica? Or is that gotu kola? I've been using both but in small concentrations. How much do you use per day and for how long have you used it? What concrete results have you seen? Studies are great but does it work for us?

One screw, that sounds very interesting but you may have a different condition than many others have. Results like that after a few weeks or even a month or two are eyebrow raising to say the least. Regenerating nerves takes longer than that. I hesitate to try ldn given the many sides reported from its use.

#20 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 11:43 PM

For u guys recommending supps, can u recommend which brand for each sup u recommend?

#21 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 01:43 AM

But you are assuming that nerve growth is needed to fix the problem. I am sure many cases of neuropathy are a result of malfunctioning instead of malgrowth or actual damage.

Much of the stuff that is known to help with neuropathy helps with this, amitriptyline, LDN, benfotiamine, pregabalin and gabapentin (the latter two having bad sides). I don't exactly like calling it neuropathy either, as I don't feel like it properly describes it, but I can't find a better term for it, and it seems to be highly related.

@pyco: Phenibut is probably more addictive than most benzos.

Edited by OneScrewLoose, 04 March 2010 - 02:10 AM.


#22 pycnogenol

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 04:00 PM

For u guys recommending supps, can u recommend which brand for each sup u recommend?



R-Lipoic Acid (Doctor's Best or Life Extension)
Omega-3 (Now Foods)
Benfotiamine (Life Extension)
DHEA (Jarrow Formulas)
Vitamin D-3 (Country Life or Jarrow)
Magnesium Glycinate (Blue Bonnet)
Vitamin C (Thorne Research)
Methylcobalamin (Jarrow Formulas)

#23 tlm884

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 04:47 PM

Pregabalin or Gabapentin may help with the pain associated with it and may also help reduce the anxiety that accompanies it.

Edit: Gabapentin low dose may help with the pain and keep side effects to a minimum (100 mg TID or 200mg TID)

Edited by tlm884, 04 March 2010 - 04:49 PM.


#24 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 06:46 PM

Pregabalin or Gabapentin may help with the pain associated with it and may also help reduce the anxiety that accompanies it.

Edit: Gabapentin low dose may help with the pain and keep side effects to a minimum (100 mg TID or 200mg TID)


Pregabalin made me horribly negative and gabapentin is one of the many meds that contribute to my hand tremor.

#25 pycnogenol

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 11:39 PM

---

Edited by pycnogenol, 04 March 2010 - 11:48 PM.


#26 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 11:41 PM

pregabalin=Lyrica

#27 pycnogenol

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 11:47 PM

pregabalin=Lyrica


Oops. You're right. Nevermind.

I can't take Neurontin (too many side effects for me) but I can take a low-dose of Lyrica.

Gabapentin = Neurontin
Pregabalin = Lyrica

Edited by pycnogenol, 04 March 2010 - 11:50 PM.


#28 tlm884

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 02:23 AM

pregabalin=Lyrica


Oops. You're right. Nevermind.

I can't take Neurontin (too many side effects for me) but I can take a low-dose of Lyrica.

Gabapentin = Neurontin
Pregabalin = Lyrica


Have you tried any other GABAergic drugs that work by different mechanisms? What about Keppra, it blocks the SV2 vescicle, I don't know its effect on pain. Valrpoic Acid, Topomirate, Carbamezipine? Benzo's may help, in an extreme case barbituates.

Taurine, Glycine, Valerian?

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#29 OneScrewLoose

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 02:26 PM

Tried Taurine, Glycine and Valerian for sleep but never for neuropathy. I have tried picamilon. Carbamezapine would be bad considering I am on Lamictal right now. ALCAR will be the next thing I will try. Should I have it with food? I am thinking 1g/day.

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