• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

Any thoughts on Neurogenex?


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 alkonik

  • Guest
  • 2 posts
  • 0

Posted 11 October 2004 - 02:56 AM


Hello. I was wondering about your thoughts on this product Neurogenex.

Per Capsule:
Huperzine A .................50mcg
Vinpocetine ......................2mg
Bacopa (20% bacosides) ....50mg
Galantamine ........................1500mcg
Choline Bitartrate ...............100mg
2-oxo-pyrrolidone ...............400mg
DMAE ................................50mg
Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate .........5mg
Nicotinamide ........................5mg
Calcium Pantothenate .............5mg
Vitamin C...............................25mg
Acetyl-l-Tyrosine ..................25mg
Acetyl-l-Carnitine ..................50mg

Since I live in Canada, this is the only product I can find that has piracetam and
that's on a Canadian website. I would like to buy some piracetam in bulk from
the USA, but i'm afraid that it might not go through customs.
So, is Neurogenex a decent product? Also, from the Canadians, what were your
experiences on ordering piracetam from the USA?
Thanks.

#2 nootropi

  • Guest
  • 1,207 posts
  • -3
  • Location:Arizona, Los Angles, San Diego, so many road

Posted 11 October 2004 - 11:51 AM

Personally, I think that the product you refer to is crap.

You should buy a scale, empty caps, and in bulk and experiment with different combos. You don't necessarily need to use cap em quick right off the bat; you could just encapsulate manually (With your hands) at first to find the best combos. Buying in bulk will save you money even though you may lose some time learning how to do it...in the long run you will be better for it; and have another new skill.

I am sure that customs will let piracetam into Canada. You can buy 400 grams (500 800 mg doses) at smi2le for $8.99.

Take care.

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 faust

  • Guest
  • 28 posts
  • 0

Posted 11 October 2004 - 12:14 PM

Hello. I was wondering about your thoughts on this product Neurogenex.

Per Capsule:
Huperzine A .................50mcg
Vinpocetine ......................2mg
Bacopa (20% bacosides) ....50mg
Galantamine ........................1500mcg
Choline Bitartrate ...............100mg
2-oxo-pyrrolidone ...............400mg
DMAE ................................50mg
Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate .........5mg
Nicotinamide ........................5mg
Calcium Pantothenate .............5mg
Vitamin C...............................25mg
Acetyl-l-Tyrosine ..................25mg
Acetyl-l-Carnitine ..................50mg

Since I live in Canada, this is the only product I can find that has piracetam and
that's on a Canadian website. I would like to buy some piracetam in bulk from
the USA, but i'm afraid that it might not go through customs.
So, is Neurogenex a decent product? Also, from the Canadians, what were your
experiences on ordering piracetam from the USA?
Thanks.


Hi!

I'm from Montreal (Canada) and I have ordering Piracetam from IAS (UK). 10 days for receive my order.

I have also ordering at smart-nutrition (USA) and uniquenutrition (USA) ..... I wait...I wait....I wait...

Maybe a will try smi2le. I will give some news if I ordering

#4 alkonik

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
  • 2 posts
  • 0

Posted 12 October 2004 - 01:33 AM

Thanks for your replies. Im not going to purchase Neurogenex, and ill get the piracetam in bulk with confidence.
Oh and nootropi, I sent you a PM. Thanks again.

#5 AORsupport

  • Guest
  • 84 posts
  • 4
  • Location:Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Posted 12 October 2004 - 05:02 PM

Hello. I was wondering about your thoughts on this product Neurogenex.

Per Capsule:
Huperzine A .................50mcg
Vinpocetine ......................2mg
Bacopa (20% bacosides) ....50mg
Galantamine ........................1500mcg
Choline Bitartrate ...............100mg
2-oxo-pyrrolidone ...............400mg
DMAE ................................50mg
Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate .........5mg
Nicotinamide ........................5mg
Calcium Pantothenate .............5mg
Vitamin C...............................25mg
Acetyl-l-Tyrosine ..................25mg
Acetyl-l-Carnitine ..................50mg


The dosages don't seem to make sense. If you took 8 capsules a day, you would be within the clinically-tested range for most of these nutrients, and while you would likely not want to take a full 8 due to the likelihood of synergistic interaction and the known inverted-U response curve of many cognitive-enhancement supplements, you would still be far too low in ALCAR to expect a benefit, andn be taking nearly a full day's dose of galantamine -- which would be a bad idea as you'd also be taking a very high dose of huperzine.

Moreover, I don't understand why they've included acetyl-L-tyrosine. All of the studies that I could find tended to show that it is no better than, and apparently inferior to, tyrosine itself In particular, Topall and Laborit found that when “mice had been treated with L-tyrosine, O-phospho-L-tyrosine, L-tyrosine methyl ester or N-acetyl-L-tyrosine …. After the intraperitoneal administration of O-phospho-L-tyrosine or the methyl ester, there was a substantial increase in bioavailability in terms of the effect of tyrosine. The two prodrugs were as powerful as tyrosine following oral administration. N-Acetyl-L-tyrosine was the least effective prodrug tested.” Now, if after oral administration O-phospho-L-tyrosine or the methyl ester were only “as powerful as tyrosine,” and if acetyl-L-tyrosine “ was the least effective prodrug tested,” that seems to indicate that it is actually less effective than tyrosine itself. Since the clinically-tested dose of tyrosine is typically 9 grams, it’s hard to see what one can get out of this ingredient.

Taking DMAE, ALCAR, and choline in one pill is counterproductive, because of the competition for absorption and blood-brain barrier transport of quaternary amines; moreover, taking pro-cholinergic (choline, huperzine, galantamine) and anti-cholinergic (DMAE) supplements in one serving seems to guarantee the least possible benefits from all of the ingredients in question.

The vitamins don’t seem to be well-chosen or -dosed, either. P5P is not an effective supplement. The body dephosphorylates it before it can pass through cellular membranes; thus, 5 mg of P5P is equivalent to less than 5 mg of plain pyridoxine (vitamin B6). The doses of B5 and vitamin C seem unlikely to add to the intake of people taking a quality multivitamin.

More importantly: in my opinion, life extensionists should not take nicotinamide, due to the potential issue of niacinamide’s nullification of the potential anti-aging effects of sirtuins.

(Ker-plug): You may want to have a look at AOR’s OrthoMind formulation, which (of course :) ) I consider to be much better-designed. It includes pyroglutamic acid, the root molecule of the ‘racetams.

Since I live in Canada, this is the only product I can find that has piracetam and that's on a Canadian website. I would like to buy some piracetam in bulk from the USA, but i'm afraid that it might not go through customs.


Again, you may want to consider pyroglutamic acid instead. But if you prefer piracetam: while I am not a lawyer or n agent of Health Canada :), and you should double-check with your local Therapeutic Products Directorate enforcement officer, I do not believe that piracetam will be stopped at the border. Several years ago, I spoke with mine, and he informed me that since piracetam is not on Schedule F, a small personal supply would be allowed through. I did order some piracetam for myself some time back and had no problems with the process.

To your health!

AOR

Van Goudoever JB, Sulkers EJ, Timmerman M, Huijmans JG, Langer K, Carnielli VP, Sauer PJ. Amino acid solutions for premature neonates during the first week of life: the role of N-acetyl-L-cysteine and N-acetyl-L-tyrosine. JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr. 1994 Sep-Oct;18(5):404-8.

Topall G, Laborit H. Brain tyrosine increases after treating with prodrugs: comparison with tyrosine. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1989 Nov;41(11):789-91.

Magnusson I, Ekman L, Wangdahl M, Wahren J. N-acetyl-L-tyrosine and N-acetyl-L-cysteine as tyrosine and cysteine precursors during intravenous infusion in humans. Metabolism. 1989 Oct;38(10):957-61.

#6 unipolar_mania

  • Guest
  • 87 posts
  • 0

Posted 17 October 2004 - 12:36 PM

"It includes pyroglutamic acid, the root molecule of the ‘racetams". Is that a good thing?

What effect does pyroglutamic acid have on the brain?

#7 AORsupport

  • Guest
  • 84 posts
  • 4
  • Location:Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Posted 29 October 2004 - 08:08 PM

"It includes pyroglutamic acid, the root molecule of the ‘racetams".  Is that a good thing?   

What effect does pyroglutamic acid have on the brain?


In your original post, you indicated an interest in piracetam. Pyroglutamic acid is the orthomolecular root molecule of all of the nootropic drugs with names ending in "-racetam," such as piracetam, aniracetam, pramiracetam, and oxiracetam. All of these drugs are "tweaked" version of pyroglutamic acid. Its effects are similar; it has the advantage of being an orthomolecular compound.

Pyroglutamic acid is an ingredient in AOR's OrthoMind formulation. In a research summary of supplements for brain and cognitive function, you can read:

• L-Pyroglutamic Acid, the so-called “forgotten amino acid,” is the natural molecule behind the nootropic drugs, such as piracetam, oxiracetam, and pramiracetam: these drugs are chemically “tweaked” versions of L-Pyroglutamic Acid. No one quite understands how L-Pyroglutamic Acid or the nootropics work: they don’t seem to significantly affect neurotransmitter levels, they don’t bind to any known receptors, and their metabolism is extremely simple, nontoxic, and “clean.”

But however they work, the nootropics’ ability to improve learning, memory consolidation, and retrieval in normal, healthy people has been well-established in clinical trials. Piracetam, which is the most widely-researched of these “smart drugs,” has also been found effective in dyslexia, although results in Down’s syndrome and Alzheimer’s disease have been inconclusive. One of the most interesting effects reported with piracetam, and believed to be universal to the nootropics, is its ability to facilitate communication between the left (verbal/logical) and right (spatial/ mathematical/creative) hemispheres of the brain. Subjectively, many users report that L-Pyroglutamic Acid and the nootropics “wake up your brain,” although the effect is quite distinct from that of stimulants such as caffeine.

In one randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial, 40 men and women with age-associated memory impairment were first run through a series of tests of memory tests, and then took either a supplement providing 1276 milligrams of L-Pyroglutamic Acid or a look-alike pill for sixty days. At the end of the study, people taking L-Pyroglutamic Acid experienced a 37.8% improvement in their ability to remember words after a twenty-minute pause; a 17% jump in immediate recall of categorized words; a corresponding 30% boost in recall of those same words after a delay; and a 50% lower rate of “false positives” (wrongly “recognizing” faces that they had never seen before). People getting the placebo experienced no improvements.

Despite the sound of the name, L-Pyroglutamic Acid is not a potential “excitotoxin” like glutamate. Studies in laboratory animals have not only shown that feeding large doses of this nutrient to newborn mice is harmless, but that direct injection of L-Pyroglutamic Acid into the adult brain causes no negative effects. In fact, an animal experiment demonstrated that L-Pyroglutamic Acid actually protects the brain from glutamate excitotoxicity!


Relevant clinical studies:
Grioli S, Lomeo C, Quattropani MC, Spignoli G, Villardita C. Pyroglutamic acid improves the age associated memory impairment. Fundam Clin Pharmacol. 1990; 4(2):169-73.

Sinforiani E, Trucco M, Cavallini A, Gualtieri S, Verri AP, Spignoli G. Reversibility of cognitive disorders among chronic alcoholics in phases of withdrawal. Effect of arginine pyroglutamate. Minerva Psichiatr. 1985 Oct-Dec;26(4):339-46.

You can read the chapter on pyroglutamic acid from Smart Drugs & Nutrients by Dean & Fowkes online.

To your health!

AOR

#8 bestro

  • Guest
  • 2 posts
  • 0

Posted 30 October 2004 - 04:43 PM

http://www.elitefitn...display.php?f=2

please comment on this thread it refers to this one

sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for BRAIN HEALTH to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#9 bestro

  • Guest
  • 2 posts
  • 0

Posted 30 October 2004 - 04:43 PM

http://www.elitefitn...display.php?f=2




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users