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Has anyone tried Psychotropin?


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31 replies to this topic

#1 charisma

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 03:17 AM


I was reading up on it, it looks like a great product from what I can tell for $29.99. But I was wondering if anyone has tried it. Specs below...

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 4 Capsules
Servings Per Container: 30

Acetyl L- Carnitine1000mg
Phenibut (B-phneyl-y-Aminobutyric Acid 500mg
Bacopa Monnieri250mg
L-Theanine200mg
DMAE (Dimethyl Amino Ethanol L-Bitartrate)200mg
Betaine200mgRhodiola Rosea (4% rosavins)150mg
Vinpocetine7.5mgHuperzine.05mg

Other Ingredients: Gelatin, silica, Magnesium Stearate
Suggested Use: Take 4-8 capsules once or twice per day.

#2 brooklynjuice

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 06:18 AM

why PA included DMAE is beyond me

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#3 exigentsky

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 06:41 AM

Maybe because of mood elevation, sleep regulation and anti anxiety benefits? (it's also a choline precursor)

#4 brooklynjuice

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 07:14 AM

Maybe because of mood elevation, sleep regulation and anti anxiety benefits? (it's also a choline precursor)


Oh really?

David Tolson did a bit of research on it and here's part of his article:

There is very little evidence that this increase in choline levels leads to a consequent rise in acetylcholine, and given that DMAE competitively inhibits choline transport, there is theoretical basis for an anticholinergic effect [10-11, 13-15]. If anything, this renders DMAE supplementation the equivalent of choline supplementation, since that also increases brain choline levels but generally fails to increase acetylcholine [16]. In an in vitro study, DMAE reduced the synthesis of acetylcholine by inhibiting high affinity choline transport, and the same researchers found no effect of DMAE on acetylcholine levels in vivo in rats [17]. In another study in which a wide range of doses of DMAE was administered to mice, there was no increase in brain acetylcholine levels except an increase in the striatum at the highest dose which appeared to be unrelated to tissue DMAE content [18].

Studies on the effects of DMAE on learning and memory have also been discouraging. In mice, DMAE improved one-week retention in mice on a T-maze active avoidance task [19]. However, trials in the healthy elderly and in people with Alzheimer's and amnestic disorders have found no positive effect on memory or cognition [20-23]. One study did report better mood after treatment, but there was no control group [23].

DMAE has also been researched in the treatment of tardive dyskinesia (a type of movement disorder). Although initial results were promising, they failed to be replicated in double-blind, placebo-controlled trials [24-30]. In two of these studies, choline was effective whereas DMAE was not [24, 29]. In one trial, symptoms were worse in the DMAE-treated group, and it was suggested that DMAE had actually interfered with cholinergic function [25].

A final use proposed for DMAE is in the treatment of childhood hyperactivity. A placebo-controlled trial in 74 children found that DMAE at 500 mg daily was as effective as methylphenidate (Ritalin) [15]. The mechanism of action for this effect is not established.

Numerous side effects from DMAE treatment have been reported in the literature. These include gastrointestinal disturbances, bad body odor, drowsiness, sedation, retardation, confusion, increased blood pressure, depression, and hypomania; some of these are causes of frequent withdrawal [20, 31-33]. Airborne DMAE is associated with a variety of adverse events (some of which have been reported in humans exposed to high concentrations in a label printing plant), primarily visual disturbances (blurry, halo, and blue-grey vision, corneal opacity, and decrements in visual acuity and contrast sensitivity) and skin irritation [34-36]. However, it is doubtful that oral supplementation will lead to these effects. DMAE also has potential teratogenic effects due to the fact that it inhibits choline uptake [10]. In one study, rat pups fed a choline-deficient diet containing DMAE died within 36 hours of birth, supporting the notion that DMAE does not function as an effective choline precursor [37]. In another experimental study, the presence of choline or acetylcholine offset developmental toxicity due to DMAE [38].

In conclusion, the scientific literature does not support many of the claims made regarding DMAE, although older research does support a possible benefit in the treatment of hyperactivity. When taken in the right amounts, there are some possible benefits related to its antioxidant effects and benefits resulting from an anticholinergic effect can even be hypothesized. Also, there is not enough research to determine the effects when DMAE and choline are taken together. It is possible that the two would just blunt one another's effects. However, it is also possible that this would offer the best of both worlds, both the antioxidant effects of DMAE but also sufficient choline metabolites to protect against any potential negative effects. Further research is clearly needed, but until then, it is unwise to use DMAE without a protective choline supplement.



#5 enemy

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 08:19 AM

Maybe because it's cheap and the recipe needed a little padding?

#6 exigentsky

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 09:16 PM

Retardation is a possible side effect of DMAE?

#7 brooklynjuice

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 01:40 AM

Maybe because it's cheap and the recipe needed a little padding?


Well even PA admitted he only added because it got at such a cheap price that it barely had on effect of price.

After several posters and I shown him the research showing that DMAE is not only a poor supplement but can be quite dangerous he said after initial lots is sold he will consider removing it. There are many people that posted that they will not try it untill the DMAE is removed and Im one of them. Its a shame too as it looks like a nice product, its also nice that more and more companies are getting into nootropics. The more and more competition means better prices and better products [thumb]

#8 charisma

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 02:50 AM

I just took DMAE out of my stack actually. I determined that it was what was causing my headaches. I feel a lot better off of it. Is Centrophenoxine a good alternative or should I just avoid both?

#9 enemy

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 02:56 AM

I use centrophenoxine pretty regularly, no unpleasantries associated.

#10 brooklynjuice

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 03:16 AM

DMAE has very serious negative side effects. If the FDA worked the way its supposed to, this shit would have been pulled off the market a long time ago.

#11 Guest_da_sense_*

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 03:50 AM

All I've found on web about DMAE was more or less positive. Can you give me some urls that explain such negative side effects?

#12 brooklynjuice

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 06:23 AM

check the dates of the positive stuff. Newer studies with better controls and with healthy human shows a much darker picture. You simply do not wanna be taking this stuff. I did a while back because I always had a wierd headache that was like 'in the background'

Anyway heres the article David Tolson wrote:

http://www.1fast400....gredients_id=46

#13 exigentsky

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 06:46 AM

What makes David Tolson such an authoritiy on the subject?

#14 Guest_da_sense_*

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 08:46 AM

I've read on some forums how bad DMAE is, but never found real explanation...anyway i spent my 100gr I had, didn't plan on ordering more anyhow...

#15 charisma

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 12:44 PM

I've got almost 100gr of DMAE sitting here that I can't stand to touch anymore. That's not very scientific but take it for what it is.

#16 jeromewilson

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 02:03 PM

I was wondering, given their relationship, does Centrophenoxine have any of the negative effects of DMAE?

#17 LifeMirage

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 04:41 PM

David Tolson is not an expert nor does he know what he is talking about. His focus is to sell what he wants to sell.

#18 brooklynjuice

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 05:05 PM

I do not consider Tolson to be an authority but instread of just copy n pasting the abstracts he mentions, I thought I'd link the summary. I always had a headache when taking DMAE but it took a few times to realize the connection.

#19 Guest_da_sense_*

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 05:35 PM

I never really felt anything from DMAE, bad or good. Few times i even took 1-2 gr in combo with ALCAR, Green tea and caffeine, liked the effect but it could be due to alcar and caffeine

#20 exigentsky

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 08:14 PM

LifeMirage, what is your take on DMAE?

BTW: I'm asking because I personally have felt a positive effect in mood and memory when taking it. But, I do not want to take a dangerous substance.

#21 brooklynjuice

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 08:28 PM

I too would like to hear his stance on it. The latest research does seem to indicate that at best it does nothing at worst causes bad sides. But the alot of the older research was positive...

#22 scottl

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:39 PM

1. I believe from previous posts that LifeMirage prefers centro (which supplies the body with DMAE if I'm remembering the chemistry correctly) to DMAE.

2. I use neurostim and used to use powerdrive. Both contain DMAE and both sell well and are popular. I asked Marc (CEO of the company that makes neurostim) why he included it and his reply was that his advisors recommended its addition and that when the formula was tried with and without it, people preferred neurostim with DMAE. FWIW: someone commented on the avant board something to the effect of course people will prefer the version with DMAE since it has stimulating properties.

Powerdrive contains:

L-Tyrosine, 3000 mg
Phosphatidylcholine, 1000 mg
DMAE, 200 mg
Ginkgo Biloba, 200 mg
Vitamin B6, 20 mg

And neurostim:
6.5 grams TyroLean™-- Specific amounts of Choline, Tyrosine and ALCAR

* Accelerates loss of bodyfat
* Enhances mental focus
* Increases endurance
* Improves exercise capacity
* Prevents adrenal burnout


305 milligrams BrainDrive™--Proprietary Blend of Huperzine A, DMAE and Vinpocetine

#23 scottl

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:43 PM

Oh and Tolsen did write:

ADD/ADHD - 7
given is the current scientific support for use (on a scale of 0-10).

http://www.1fast400....gredients_id=46

Which may explain why at least some people do like it.

#24 brooklynjuice

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:53 PM

what the average cost difference from a typical serving of centro and DMAE?

#25 LifeMirage

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:56 PM

FYI: I'm currently working on about 100 articles on just about every supplement & drug available, including DMAE.

Give me alittle time and I will post it here.

But in the meanwhile DMAE (in the form of dimethylaminoethanol bitartrate, which everyone is referring to in this post) is pretty safe, just watch the dose when taken over 100 mg for some people mild stomach issues (and other mild side effects) can be present.

Those with Bipolar disorder should be careful taking it or just avoid it.

While I do not strongly recommend DMAE B, it is cheap for those can not buy it in other forms (centrophenoxine, deanol).

#26 wickedgirl

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 07:30 PM

I have taken DMAE for several years at low doses (no more than 300mg or so per day). I have noticed definite benefits, and no side effects or other ill effects. I am very curious as to how and why negative articles are coming up on this supplement. Hmmmm....maybe yet another supp that works and needs some bad press posted to keep us all away from the supps. and more dependent on the hard core drugs. Listen, ANYTHING taken in the extreme can be overdone and end up bad for you...even WATER. Use comon sense, dose appropriately (some of the dosages I see people taking on various nootropic sites have me shaking my head in disbelief), and use as FEW in combination as possible. The kitchen sink method is not the best way to supplement, both in terms of your pocket book and your general well-being.
Not a sermon...just a thought! ;)

As to the original question....I jumped on Psychotropin when I first saw it for sale. I have taken almost all of the bottle, and I must say I seriously wonder if there is anything in each capsule besides sugar! I have noticed absolutely no improvement in focus and memory, and none for mood either. So far, I am not impressed...especially in light of the $29.99 per bottle price tag. Save your money.

#27 lancelot

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 06:31 AM

I hated DMAE(twinlab) when i first took it in 98'. I tried it a few years later and still felt like crap on it. I thought it was only me.

#28 LifeMirage

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 05:07 PM

What dose did you take?

#29 wickedgirl

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Posted 25 June 2005 - 09:50 PM

Were you asking me about the Psychotropin, or Lancelot about his DMAE?
I took the recommended dosage on the bottle. If more is needed, I simply can not afford to take it in higher doses. I would rather buy bulk powders and cap my own of each ingredient.

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#30 edge

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Posted 26 June 2005 - 01:50 PM

David Tolson is not an expert nor does he know what he is talking about. His focus is to sell what he wants to sell.


Tolson worked for 1fast400 when he wrote the article, which is posted at 1fast400's site. 1fast400 sold DMAE at the time and still sells it. If Tolson's focus was really to push products that his employer sold, then why didn't he write a positive article on DMAE?




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