152 replies to this topic

[syr_]

(Syr_)

Cost?

I've been recommended a cream for dark circles that is very expensive.

You can read my previous one post, just before this one. There are links for the products. They are a bit expensive, but at the moment it is the only thing that is doing something to me in my dark circles. [thumb]

Read it.
I'll stick with my cream. it is one single product and, both these you posted lack vitamin K.

[glexia]

(cnorwood19) glexia, I think kenj's concern was that there is no disclosure of how much of each ingredient there is. Sometimes they will add close to nothing of an ingredient, so they can list it as an ingredient. It will give you no benefit, but will make them money.

Then he says that those posts he read were a BAD sign. This is becuase they were obviously setup. Sometimes groups try to do that here and get BANNED with offending posts removed. If they can not be honest in advertising, how can you be sure they are honest with having the ingredients in amounts that are beneficial?

Yes, i know what kenj was trying to say to me. I agree in everything what you say. Now i don´t know if what these "serums" have is what they say to contain ... but ... what do they contain then?? Because i only have used them for one week and the truth is that it was a lot of time that i didn´t see my skin so well, without acne, without dark circles, soft skin ... I don´t understand why the company does these things. If the product is good why do they dirty his name with that "marketing"?? Now the only thing that worries me is that the product have " Opposite effect " and when i stop using it my face remains worse that when I began... [:o]

[Athanasios]

If it is doing well for you, and worth your money, keep using it. I doubt you will have any negative effects from the ingredients listed.

[goku]

anyone have any new thoughts on the best skin care product out there?

[Athanasios]

I started making my own from http://www.skinactives.com/

I used:

canvas base
sea kelp
beta glucan
carnosine
copper pepptides

I drink a lot of green tea, otherwise I would have put that in or silymarin (milk thistle)

[mediatech]

Copper peptides are the best thing I've tried. I'm a big fan of a product called Super Cop 2X. A bit painful at first but after a year you get used to it. I get mine from the source at skinbio.com

Greg

[Athanasios]

Copper peptides are the best thing I've tried. I'm a big fan of a product called Super Cop 2X. A bit painful at first but after a year you get used to it. I get mine from the source at skinbio.com

Try to get some beta glucan too, that stuff is amazing as well. I would say it is my number 1 ingredient in a cream.

[mediatech]

Thanks. I'm looking over research for beta glucan now. Looks like another ingredient for the arsenal. I'm hitting 40 next year. I drink a lot of green/white tea too as a coffee replacement.

Another thing about stronger copper peptides formulas is they work far better for hair growth in a shorter period of time than Rogaine ever did... which didn't do anything for me. Of course if the follicle is dead than nothing will work.

Greg

[Athanasios]

Definitely check this study out, a PDF file. It is a must when doing the research on beta glucan:

http://www.ceapro.com/pdfs/ifscc.pdf



EDIT: changed URL

Edited by cnorwood19, 16 July 2006 - 01:59 PM.

[sdxl]

File is damaged? Or is it me? [mellow]

Anyway here is a nice PDF on tretinoin with some impressive pics.

http://www.skinandag...hoSupp_2003.pdf

[Athanasios]

Try this link for the Beta Glucan Instead: http://www.ceapro.com/pdfs/ifscc.pdf

[sentinel]

Great thread! Glad to see I'm not the only vain chap here . Beta Glucan looks interesting, as do Copper peptides (although some concern about staining you have wash off and irritation!). Any thoughts on using DMAE which seems potentially useful and CoQ10 which, if you believe all the hype may help you live forever all by itself

Sentinel

[kenj]

You probably didn't see this coming:

I always use an aftershave lotion with little or NO alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look OLDER.
THEN moisturizer, THEN an anti-aging eye balm, followed by a final moisturizing *PROTECTIVE* lotion...

[tung]

J/K, Yeah this is a great "No-Nonsense" thread, - gotta love that. [thumb]

[neogenic]

I find it odd that no one is mentioning the quantum leap in the cosmeceuticals industry in spin traps. Nearly all the big cosmetic companies are developing or releasing formulas utilizing spin traps. These companies make some high-end products in that realm.

http://www.sircuitskin.com/spin_trap OMG, Dream Weaver, and Sircuit Weapon
http://www.skin.us/
http://www.correctiveskin.com/ Anti Age Antioxidant Serum
http://www.dermatolo...?criteria=12323

Yes these products are expensive. There should be no doubt that this is the future. Geronova major distribution for PBN and NtBHA is not research or even private use, but the cosmetic industry. I am suprised they haven't revamped their Rejuv formula yet.

[sdxl]

Relentless Improvement has spin traps, so there is no need to buy those expensive products if you are willing to do some mixing.

[starr]

I find it odd that no one is mentioning the quantum leap in the cosmeceuticals industry in spin traps.  Nearly all the big cosmetic companies are developing or releasing formulas utilizing spin traps.  These companies make some high-end products in that realm.

http://www.sircuitskin.com/spin_trap    OMG, Dream Weaver, and Sircuit Weapon
http://www.skin.us/
http://www.correctiveskin.com/        Anti Age Antioxidant Serum
http://www.dermatolo...?criteria=12323

Yes these products are expensive.  There should be no doubt that this is the future.  Geronova major distribution for PBN and NtBHA is not research or even private use, but the cosmetic industry.  I am suprised they haven't revamped their Rejuv formula yet.

These companies have great concepts but I can't buy Vitamin C serum in a water base like Corrective Skin Care is selling. Talk about instant pro-oxidant. Stuff like that makes me wonder about the rest of the line. Sircuit's products look interesting but you can tell that the site copy is not professionally written so that makes me assume that it's a two guys with some ingredients and a mixer. Not that smaller companies can't make good products...I just think that a lot of this stuff is sold with ingredients that look/sound good in theory but are not clinically proven in their specific formulations.

[neogenic]

I agree with what you were saying. I posted examples of products that are out that have spin traps. L'oreal, Clinique, Maybelline, and most of the big cosmetic companies are buying up spin traps and planning on releasing products containing them. Geronova's majority of sales for spin traps is not personal consumption or research studies, but cosmetic companies. Here's a link from the American Academy of Dermatology about some of the newer compounds in the war on Anti-Aging for skin.

http://www.aad.org/p.../BottleHope.htm

I also found another company that has some spin trap products...

http://www.joiedevie.com/products.htm

http://www.plasticsu...SP/2006/04&p=14

Here's a quote from the geronova web site:

In addition to nutritional supplements, GeroNova provides spin traps such as PBN, (alpha phenyl t-butyl nitrone) and TBHA, for the scientific, pharmaceutical, industrial and medical communities.

GeroNova partners with world class pharmaceutical, nutraceutical, chemical, cosmetic and biotechnology companies to design, develop, clinically test and manufacture novel products for the global market with gram to multi-ton production capabilities.

We continue to invest in state-of-the-art equipment to develop the highest quality products.

GeroNova provides excellent customer service and competitive pricing.

All of GeroNova's products are processed in US cGMP, FDA approved facilities and meet the highest standards of quality.

GeroNova's logo is an ancient Egyptian hieroglyph mandating to “stay young”.

Here's a review of the Sircuit Skin products...

http://www.fivestarr...x?ReviewId=1149

[neogenic]

http://www.personalt.../skin-care.html
The product EyeBelieve on this link is a spin trap (PBN) containing formula as well.

[sentinel]

Just went a bit nuts and bought DIY Beta Glucan, carnosine, Copper Peptides, EGF and DMAE! Are Copper peptides more of a 1-a-day type treatment as I hear they can be "active" to the point of irritation..?

Neogenic

Do you have any professional involvement with spintraps and related products...or just use them a lot?


Sentinel

[Athanasios]

Skin actives has recommended in their forums to scale up with anything that is an irritant....for example, just put a bit of the peptides in and add more later if no problems.

[neogenic]

No professional involvement...though it's a field I'd love to get into. I write research articles on supplements and I think this area is amazing. I've ended up on this board b/c of the higher level of thought and research in to more cutting-edge compounds. I love Geronova using tocotrienols, astaxanthin, PBN, NtBHA, R-ALA/DHLA, Delta Gold, Gamma E, etc. I know they are working on a stablized version of the trans-resveratrol as well. I take the R-ASTA, K-RALA liquid and PBN by them and I thrilled with the way my body has responded. Presently, I do not use a special skin cream. I use Neutrogena cleansers and moisturizers, but I am interested in how this is really about to explode on to the market. The research on spin traps is downright amazing and at $3/day for capped 300mg PBN from geronova...I would recommend everyone use it. It's expensive, but research is staggeringly compelling.

[kenj]

The research on spin traps is downright amazing

Now for the billion $ Q: Are these spin trap formulations in *skin creams* REALLY more than just theoretical speculations? Do they DELIVER in real life?
They have been available on the market for several years now for topical use and the "real-life" feedback I can find is mixed and nothing special although they don't seem particularly harmful either...

[aikikai]

Personally I use many different types of grooming supplies. It is not all about the "best skin cream", there are more stuff to use. Skin creams are the final touch of the skin care procedure.

Personally I have tried many many types of skin creams, but there are only few that I find good. Nowadays I make my on face creams and face oil, which I use everyday. The positive thing about making your own grooming products, and skin creams, is that you can decide what ingredients it should include. And it is inexpensive by the way.

[neogenic]

What do you use for ingredients?

BTW, as far as mixed feedback...the amount and whether it actually had any real spin traps or not is certainly at question. The cost of spin traps is astronomical. Geronova is one of the only companies on the net that has a "reasonable" price of $90 for 10 grams of either PBN or NtBHA. So some of the more fly-by-night companies may be using miniscule doses or none at all and just using buzzwords. That said some of what I've read on Sircuit looks decent. It would be worth discussing with Geronova who they're supplying and go that route.

Personally, I believe supplementation is infinitely more crucial from the inside out and the spin traps are so expensive that I would benefit my whole body over the epidermis. A good scrub and some some moisturizer do wonders...though I am in my 30's.

[sentinel]

Aikikai

Do you actually have anything to suggest, clearly this whole forum is covering longevity, inside out or otherwise, but given this thread is specifically about skin creams, what do you think works/have evidence for working?

Neogenic

have you actually tried Spin traps or are you just promoting promising studies. Although much on this forum is heavily researched based the one saving grace of superficial areas such as cosmetic enhancement is that, by definition, one can actually see if something is working or not.

So, actual results from people who have personally tried things anyone? I'll let you know how I get on from my batch.

[aikikai]

Aikikai

Do you actually have anything to suggest, clearly this whole forum is covering longevity, inside out or otherwise,  but given this thread is specifically about skin creams, what do you think works/have evidence for working?

I don't think there is any "super" creams, because we all have different skin types, and we all react differently to different ingredients. It is the same with supplements.

So what do I look for in my skin creams? I use the types of ingredients:

Sun Protection Factor (minimum SPF 15, best ingredient for SPF is titandioxide and zinkoxide)
Retinol
E-vitamin
Beta carotene
Benzoin Resinoid
Zink
Carnosine
Methylsulfonylmethan
Jojoba oil (has natural SPF 4)

There are a lot more I use, but these ones I count as the basic stuff. The cosmetic industry has many chemicals in their products, and I personally try to avoid them as much as possible. There are brands who sell "natural" cosmetics like Decléor, Dr. Hauschka etc.

Then there are some ingredients you should avoid, which are very common in skin creams, and that is mineral oils like paraffin and petroleum (see more here http://en.wikipedia....ki/Mineral_oil).

I can talk a lot about these cosmetic stuff, but my best advise is to test and do your own research. Go to some grooming forums, both male and female ones and look around.

One thing more, drink a lot of water, it has a great importance to your skin.

best,
aikikai

Edited by aikikai, 25 July 2006 - 05:54 PM.

[neogenic]

Sentinel, I have used spin traps orally, like I said above, I use several GeroNova products. PBN and NbTHA are both $90 for 10g...they will also cap the PBN for free at 300mg doses, which at this point is a theoretical daily dose. The other spin trap can't be capped due to stability ahead of time. It has to be capped directly prior to use or done with alcohol in a tincture. It amplifies the PBN and only has to be used for 1 month on and 2-3 months off. So I might add the second spin trap next time. Clearly in terms of cosmetics on PBN could be used currently with stability. I do love their lipoics too...the ASTA-RALA and MitoGold are both in my arsenel as well. I certainly love the effects I get and I have seen my skin tone, firmness and clarity improve while on these products.

I'd love to hear the results of the spin trap in your "home brew". Let us know how much you're using in the concoction.

[goku]

any new info on these spin traps or skin care cerams in general?

I'm using from a company called Kripps. They have specified percentages of skin serums and are GMP, so they seem good. Too early to tell.

Here's the link: http://www.krippspha...m/SKINCARE.HTML

Also, anyone used MSM cream with good result? If so, what percentage; it's hyper absorbtive, correct? Alot like DMSO, although not that strong.

Also, how do you mix these DIY components you buy off that site Cnorworld et al?
Do you need to heat them to mix, or just stir them together? What recipes are you concocting and with what result?

[Shepard]

I've ordered a few products from Urth that I'm looking forward to trying out:

http://www.menessent...690389.94022902

[goku]

Where'd you hear about these guys? Looks good with the spin traps, but what's the percentage of white tea? Significant? They never say...