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Nootropics for depression?


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#1 klodde

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 09:30 PM


Hello!

I've suffered from depression for a long time now and want it to permanent end now. I went to see a doctor a month ago. He asked threee questions and then prescribed me Mirtazapin(Remeron). He told me there was no side effects whatsoever. Anyway, I should take half a pill two hours before bedtime. I did, after one hour I could'nt keep myself awake and had to go to sleep. After 14 hours of sleep I had to drag my self out of the bed because I had some things to get done. I was still very tired though. The rest of the day I felt like I had drunk at least one bottle of vodka too much the day before. In the evening I took another half pill. This time I only slept 12 hours, but still had the hangover effect for the remainder of the day. I stopped taking the pills. EDIT: I searched the net about Mirtazapin and found a blog of a guy who had tried Mirtazapin for a month and he claimed to had slept 400 hours that month!

After one week I was supposed to take a whole pill for the rest of the treatment period, which was supposed to last 9 months. I'm studying so it was not a good option for me.
At this site: http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/ I read that a typical depressions last eight months, and that's why the doctors prescribe "antidepressants" for nine months...to be on the safe side so to speak.
So obviously antidepressants just sedate you, eliminating the symptoms, but not solving the problem.

Anyway my symptoms are: Wakes up and feel more tired than after running a marathon...thrice, having extremely difficult to concentrate...can't even read 10 pages from a book, extremely tired all the day...except when I'm supposed to go to sleep...insomnia...it takes at least 2 hours before I fall asleep...wakes up after about 2-4 hours and can't fall asleep...just lying in bed...resting until it's time to get up. No motivation whatsoever, don't feel like doing anything, not even the daily stuff like cooking, cleaning etc. Being social is out of the question...the tiredness makes my extremely stupid.

The pros: After reading some of the posts at this forum I ordered Acetyl l-carnitin and Nootropil. After trying these two "drugs" my concentration has improved immensely! I've also ordered Modalert and Hydergine, but they have yet to arrive. EDIT: I forgot to mention that I feel a lot better since I started taking ALC and Nootropil, but still not like a "healthy human being"

So what I'm wondering is if there's someone who has managed to break a depression using Nootropics?

Edited by Semisvensk, 21 November 2007 - 09:43 PM.


#2 spaceistheplace

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 10:27 PM

Depends on the nootropic. Things like piracetam, alpha-gpc, and ALCAR have been known to exacerbate symptoms of depression. Others like deprenyl or modafinil may help.

Anyways you should just do a search because there are lots of threads that discuss this.

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#3 klodde

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 11:26 PM

I was particularly interested in those people who has succefully broken their depression. I've read alot about people take various stuff, but not if they actually got rid of the depression

#4 michaelscott

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 11:58 PM

I was particularly interested in those people who has succefully broken their depression. I've read alot about people take various stuff, but not if they actually got rid of the depression


SAMe has eliminated my depression, although it's not a nootropic. But I also believe Piracetam has helped quite a bit. When my brain operates better, I'm happier.

#5 ajnast4r

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 02:07 AM

i think its important to rule out things like emotional trauma, nutritional deficiency, poor diet, poor sleep habbits and food allergy... as well as trying cognitive/behavioral therapies and exercise first.


that being said, st johns wort has more or less completely eliminated my depression... and imo, is a good place to start considering thats its been proven effective for mild-moderate depression in numerous clinical studies. just be mindful that st johns wort is one of those herbs that needs to be produced correctly, or it is ineffective... unfortunately not many companies produce it properly.

natures way, perika
lichtwer, kira
indena, stjohnselect (vitamin shoppe house brand)

are all produced properly, being standardized for hypericin and hyperforin, and have stabilizers to keep the hyperforin from oxidizing. they are also the 3 patented extracts that have been used in the positive studies.

i've had success with perika and stjohselect... the vitamin shoppe house brand is considerably cheaper than the others, and a good place to start.

Edited by ajnast4r, 22 November 2007 - 02:09 AM.


#6 jackinbox

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 02:48 AM

SAMe has eliminated my depression, although it's not a nootropic. But I also believe Piracetam has helped quite a bit. When my brain operates better, I'm happier.


There is many report about that. I bought some and only used it one day and didn't feel very well. I would like to know more about your experience.

#7 salyavin

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 02:48 AM

SAMe did nothing for me but exercise always does. Please try exercise.

#8 ajnast4r

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 02:56 AM

agreed. exercise should be your first line of defense against depression... you might fatigue the first few days, but your body will adjust and it will start to make you feel energized and alert. i've found exercise has a pretty drastic effect on how social i feel as well...

sam-e also did nothing for me... it made me jittery and made my mind race.

#9 gashinshotan

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 08:11 AM

Masturbation and religion can help. You don't actually have to believe in a god to enjoy the benefits of religion; I find that just imagining the concept of one can cause some psychological comfort.

You should also consider cannabis and psychedelics. Cannabis grows hippocampal cells and has been shown to be effective in treating depression while psychedelics such as DXM, LSD, and LSA have also been shown to have beneficial effects.

#10 blazewind

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 08:21 AM

Exercise on par with drugs for aiding depression
http://www.reuters.c...L96941220070919

"If exercise were a drug, I'm not sure that it would receive FDA approval at this time," noted study author Dr. James A. Blumenthal, a professor of medical psychology at Duke University Medical Center in Durham, North Carolina.

heh

#11 klodde

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 03:26 PM

Thanks for the replies!
I've ordered SAMe. I've also tried St John wort in the past, but I felt sedated so I stopped using it. Aroebic excercise usually makes me feel a lot better a few hours after the excercise. But I always have to do that in the late afternoon since I don't have the time/mental strength in the morning. I try to excercise at least 5 times a week. I also jerk off three times a day :-)) Besides that I try to eat healthy food, take multivitamins etc..
I'll also try Modafinil and hydergine this week

#12 ajnast4r

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 03:50 PM

Masturbation and religion can help. You don't actually have to believe in a god to enjoy the benefits of religion; I find that just imagining the concept of one can cause some psychological comfort.

You should also consider cannabis and psychedelics. Cannabis grows hippocampal cells and has been shown to be effective in treating depression while psychedelics such as DXM, LSD, and LSA have also been shown to have beneficial effects.


someone delete this...

#13 macrohistory

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 07:44 PM

SAMe has eliminated my depression, although it's not a nootropic. But I also believe Piracetam has helped quite a bit. When my brain operates better, I'm happier.


In fact, SAM-e may very well act as a nootropic:


Am J Clin Nutr. 2002 Nov;76(5):1162S-71S.

Electrophysiological neuroimaging of the central effects of S-adenosyl-L-methionine by mapping of electroencephalograms and event-related potentials and low-resolution brain electromagnetic tomography
Saletu B, Anderer P, Di Padova C, Assandri A, Saletu-Zyhlarz GM.
Department of Psychiatry, University of Vienna, Austria. bernd.saletu@akh-wien.ac.at

BACKGROUND: S-Adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe, or ademetionine) is a naturally occurring molecule used as both a nutraceutical and a pharmaceutical to treat depression. OBJECTIVE: The central mode of action of SAMe was investigated in 20 healthy volunteers by mapping of electroencephalograms (EEGs) and event-related potentials (ERPs) and low-resolution brain electromagnetic tomography (LORETA). DESIGN: In an acute and subacute, double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, subjects received in random order infusions of 800 mg SAMe and placebo for 7 d, with a washout period of 3 wk between the 2 treatment periods. EEG recordings were made 0, 1, 3, and 6 h after and ERP recordings were made 0 and 1 h after the drug infusions on days 1 and 7. RESULTS: Multivariate analyses of variance and Hotelling T2 tests showed significant acute and subacute encephalotropic effects of SAMe compared with placebo. Acute pharmaco-EEG changes were typical of classic antidepressants of the thymoleptic type; subacute alterations were typical of cognition enhancers. Regarding ERPs, standard N1 and P2 latencies were shortened, and target P300 latencies were lengthened. N1 amplitudes increased after subacute treatment, and temporooccipital P300 amplitudes increased after the acute dose. Similar changes were described for antidepressants. LORETA showed that the N2 source strength increased in both the left and the right temporal lobes, whereas the P300 source strength increased in the dorsolateral prefrontal regions and decreased in the ventral limbic regions. CONCLUSION: EEG-ERP mapping identified SAMe as an antidepressant. LORETA targeted brain regions crucial in the therapeutic efficacy of antidepressants.

PMID: 12418497 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

#14

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 07:56 PM

After reading "The Omega 3 Connection" by Stoll, http://www.hdlightho...s/epa/stoll.htm I started myself on 4 grams of EPA a day which is a lot of fish oil capsules, about 10 a day depending on the concentration. In a pinch I get them from Trader Joe's as they have a fairly decently priced apparently high quality product. Since then I've settled on NSI's EFA Megabrite that I get from http://www.vitacost....HA-240-Softgels , my favorite supplier of many of my supplements. I've also gotten the liquid form of the same product which I started my youngest son on though he has now gravitated to the capsules. It is molecularly distilled which appears to be important, getting possible pollutants out of the product such as mercury. On occasion over the last couple of years during which I've been taking the fish oil, I stopped taking it for up to 3 days at a time. I notice that it is much more easier to gauge whether or not one is feeling depressed than not depressed. On taking the capsules again my mood lifts within a day. It really works for me. I notice my memory and general thinking abilities also appear to have improved.

Edited by friendlyai, 22 November 2007 - 07:56 PM.


#15 stillalive

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 07:28 PM

I was particularly interested in those people who has succefully broken their depression. I've read alot about people take various stuff, but not if they actually got rid of the depression



I have succesfully broken my half life long depression, even if it oftens reminds me of the terror from the past.

Much of what I have heard, the traditional SSRI work well for people who have got depression recently but people who have had depression for a longer time, it isn't often enough. Don't know if your medication is a SSRI, but many of them can have very nasty side effects, luckily i haven't needed to use one.

But one thing one must remember, there are no quick fix, it's big work with many relapses and dissapoints but it is well worth the effort!
The goal shall not be too high too, a relief from the worst symptoms is already something positive and often the most realistic goal!

Often you get prescribed or recomended one supplemnt, but to fix just one thing, like sertonin isn't often enough, but by combining them you are more likely to see resultats. But check up if you can combine them, some supplemnets can't be combined like a SSRI and 5HTP.
The pills can help but it is a combination of, diet, exercise, social contacs, thinking style etc, thet led me to succes. But i found that the supplements did help me to reach the state where i could work on the other parts more. The supplement i found effective was especially effective 5HTP (don't combine with other sertonin supplents like John's wort), DL-Phenylalanine(low dose, 200-500mg, don't take too much, side effects in the long run with high doses), B vitamins, rhodiola and GABA(for anxiety) . Don't try all at the same time, then you don't know which worked and which didn't. If you take a sertonin enchaning drug like SAM, 5HTP or any other, then discontinue your medication first and do it with the help of your doctor, some can get withdrawel effects from them if they stop them too fast.

Stay away from the normal nootropics, got really depressed from piracetam, Alpha GPC and have heard others who have said the same.

#16 rebuild101

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Posted 29 November 2007 - 11:49 PM

I also jerk off three times a day :-))


erm if you're really being serious dude, make sure you're getting enough zinc. You can lose 5 mg per session or about 1/3 your RDA.... Check Google, etc. for more info...

#17 gashinshotan

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 04:58 AM

I also jerk off three times a day :-))


erm if you're really being serious dude, make sure you're getting enough zinc. You can lose 5 mg per session or about 1/3 your RDA.... Check Google, etc. for more info...


Wha? I jerk off literally at least 10 times a day... could this affect my testosterone levels?

#18 Rags847

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 06:59 AM

Modafinil is worth considering.
Modafinil in small doses seems to help with depression and be safer than standard anti-depressants.
When you are depressed you are down, tired, fatigued, foggy-brained, unhappy, unable to do all the things you want to do.
Modafinil seems to wake me up, turn me on, clear my head of the fog, put me on top, make me feel like getting things done, which is how I'd feel if I had a happier life with everything going my way.
Modafinil is a new class of drug called eugeroic - the word is coined from Greek and means "good arousal."
Think of it as a happy arousal.
Aroused, happy, motivated, conquering, overcoming, Nietzschian, a God is how I want to be.
100mg was too much for me. Cut it in half and dosed two times a day at 50mg with positive results.
I'm gonna see how it goes.

Here are 4 PubMed studies:

1: J Clin Psychiatry. 2003 Sep;64(9):1057-64.Posted Image <script language="JavaScript1.2">Links
Adjunct modafinil for the short-term treatment of fatigue and sleepiness in patients with major depressive disorder: a preliminary double-blind, placebo-controlled study.
DeBattista C, Doghramji K, Menza MA, Rosenthal MH, Fieve RR; Modafinil in Depression Study Group.Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Stanford University Medical Center, 401 Quarry Road, Room 2137, Stanford, CA 94305, USA. debattista@leland.stanford.edu

BACKGROUND: Fatigue and sleepiness are primary symptoms of depression that may not resolve with antidepressant therapy. Modafinil is a novel agent that has been shown to improve wakefulness and lessen fatigue in a variety of conditions. In this study, we examined the utility of modafinil as an adjunct therapy to treat fatigue and sleepiness in patients with major depression who are partial responders to antidepressants. METHOD: Patients with partial response to anti-depressant therapy given for at least a 6-week period for a current major depressive episode (DSM-IV criteria) were enrolled in this 6-week, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel-group, multicenter study. Patients received once-daily doses (100-400 mg) of modafinil or matching placebo as adjunct treatment to ongoing antidepressant therapy. The effects of modafinil were evaluated using the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D), the Fatigue Severity Scale (FSS), the Epworth Sleepiness Scale (ESS), the Clinical Global Impression of Change (CGI-C), and the Medical Outcomes Study 36-Item Short-Form Health Survey (SF-36). Adverse events were monitored throughout the study. RESULTS: One hundred thirty-six patients were randomized to treatment, with 118 patients (87%) completing the study. Most patients (82%) were fatigued, and one half of patients (51%) were sleepy. Modafinil rapidly improved fatigue and daytime wakefulness, with significantly greater mean improvements from baseline than placebo in fatigue (FSS) scores at week 2 (p < .05) and sleepiness (ESS) scores at week 1 (p < .01); the differences between modafinil and placebo at week 6 were not statistically significant. Assessment of the augmentation effects of modafinil (HAM-D, CGI-C, and SF-36) did not significantly distinguish modafinil from placebo. Modafinil was well tolerated in combination with a variety of antidepressants. CONCLUSION: Modafinil may be a useful adjunct therapy for the short-term management of residual fatigue and sleepiness in patients who are partial responders to antidepressant therapy.

PMID: 14628981 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And another:
1: Adv Ther. 2006 Jul-Aug;23(4):646-54.Posted Image <script language="JavaScript1.2">Links
Open-label study of adjunct modafinil for the treatment of patients with fatigue, sleepiness, and major depression treated with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
Konuk N, Atasoy N, Atik L, Akay O.Faculty of Medicine, Department of Psychiatry, Zonguldak Karaelmas University, Kozlu/Zonguldak, Turkey.

Despite the efficacy of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) in the treatment of major depression, a significant number of patients show partial or no remission of symptoms. Some evidence suggests that psychostimulant augmentation may be helpful in treating patients with residual symptoms of depression. The efficacy of modafinil in augmenting SSRIs in depressed patients with residual fatigue or excessive daytime sleepiness has yet to be systematically investigated. In a series of 25 patients with major depressive disorder, according to the criteria of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition, who showed significant residual symptoms after an adequate SSRI trial (12 wk) and who were evaluated according to the Fatigue Severity Scale (FSS), subjects with scores > or = 4 were given open-label modafinil augmentation for a minimum of an additional 6 wk. Treatment response was assessed prospectively with the FSS, the Epworth Sleepiness Scale (ESS), and the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D) during the first visit and at the second and sixth weeks. Twenty-one of 25 patients in this series who were treated with modafinil and SSRIs completed the 6-wk augmentation trial. At end-point assessment, all patients showed significant improvement in fatigue and sleepiness in FSS and ESS scores, as well as in HAM-D scores (P<.01). In the second week, 29.4% of patients had a HAM-D score <7, which was defined as remission; this rate was 64.7% in the sixth week. The rate of patients whose HAM-D score dropped by more than 50%, defined as responders to treatment, was 41.1% and 76.4% in the second and sixth weeks, respectively. Results of this preliminary, open-label trial suggest that modafinil may be effective in augmenting ongoing SSRI treatment for a portion of patients with major depression who have residual fatigue and sleepiness. Larger, placebo-controlled trials appear warranted to investigate the clinical efficacy and tolerability of modafinil augmentation of SSRI treatment in these patients.

PMID: 17050507 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Another:

1: J Affect Disord. 2004 Aug;81(2):173-8.Posted Image <script language="JavaScript1.2">Links
Modafinil treatment in patients with seasonal affective disorder/winter depression: an open-label pilot study.
Lundt L.Foothills Psychiatry, 223 West State Street, Boise, ID 83702, USA. lplundt@yahoo.com

BACKGROUND: Hypersomnia is a cardinal symptom of seasonal affective disorder/winter depression. This open-label pilot study assessed modafinil, a novel wake-promoting agent, as treatment for seasonal affective disorder/winter depression. METHODS: Total daily modafinil dose was 100 mg (all patients week 1), and 100 mg or 200 mg split dose (weeks 2-8). Efficacy assessments (weeks 1, 2, 5, and 8) included the Structured Interview Guide for the Hamilton Depression (HAM-D) Rating Scale, Seasonal Affective Disorder Version (SIGH-SAD), Montgomery-Asberg Depression Rating Scale (MADRS), Clinical Global Impression of Change (CGI-C), Fatigue Severity Scale (FSS), and Epworth Sleepiness Scale (ESS). RESULTS: Thirteen patients (11 women; mean age, 41 years) were enrolled, 12 were evaluable for efficacy (100 mg dose, five patients; 200 mg dose, seven patients), and nine completed treatment. Modafinil significantly improved winter depression as shown by reductions from baseline in mean SIGH-SAD at week 1 (P<0.01) through week 8 (P<0.001 weeks 2-8) and MADRS total scores from week 2 through week 8 (P<0.01 for all). At week 8, mean SIGH-SAD total score was 17.1 (versus 37.2 at baseline, P<0.001), and mean MADRS total score was 13.3 (versus 26.9 at baseline, P<0.01). Modafinil significantly improved overall clinical condition at all time points (P<0.001). The response rate was 67% on the SIGH-SAD (29 item), HAM-D (21 item), and MADRS, and 100% on eight atypical SIGH-SAD items. Modafinil significantly reduced fatigue (FSS) and improved wakefulness (ESS) from weeks 2 through 8 (P<0.01). Modafinil was well tolerated. LIMITATIONS: This was an open-label, single site study. CONCLUSIONS: Modafinil may be an effective and well-tolerated treatment in patients with seasonal affective disorder/winter depression.

PMID: 15306145 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Last one:

1: Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2004 Jan;171(2):133-9. Epub 2003 Nov 25.Posted Image <script language="JavaScript1.2">Links
Effect of modafinil on fatigue, mood, and health-related quality of life in patients with narcolepsy.
Becker PM, Schwartz JR, Feldman NT, Hughes RJ.Department of Psychiatry, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas, Tex., USA. pbecker@sleepmed.com

INTRODUCTION: In addition to excessive sleepiness, patients with narcolepsy often have significant fatigue, depressed mood, and decreased quality of life. OBJECTIVE: To determine whether treatment with modafinil for excessive sleepiness improves fatigue, mood, and health-related quality of life (HRQOL) in patients with narcolepsy. MATERIALS AND METHODS: Outpatients with narcolepsy underwent a 14-day washout of psychostimulants and then were enrolled in this 6-week, open-label, multicenter study. Patients received modafinil starting at 200 mg once daily for week 1, and then 200 or 400 mg daily for weeks 2 through 6. Efficacy was evaluated using the Medical Outcomes Study 36-Item Short-Form Health Survey (SF-36) and the Profile of Mood States (POMS). Safety was assessed by monitoring adverse events (AE). RESULTS: At baseline, 151 patients had moderate to severe excessive sleepiness (mean Epworth Sleepiness Scale score=17.8+/-4.4). Most patients (> or =70% of 123 who completed the study) received 400 mg modafinil once daily during weeks 2 through 6. Modafinil significantly improved HRQOL, based on SF-36 measures of mental and physical component summary scores and subdomain scores of role-physical, social functioning, and vitality (each P<0.001). Modafinil treatment was also associated with significantly reduced fatigue and significantly improved vigor and cognition as assessed by the POMS (each P<0.001) from weeks 1 through 6. The most frequent AE with modafinil treatment were headache, nausea, and insomnia; most AE were mild or moderate in nature. Only seven patients (5%) withdrew from the study because of AE. CONCLUSION: In narcolepsy patients who were switched from psychostimulants, modafinil therapy improved HRQOL and subjective feelings of vigor and cognitive functioning and reduced fatigue.

PMID: 14647965 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Edited by Rags847, 30 November 2007 - 07:39 AM.


#19 klodde

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Posted 30 November 2007 - 03:47 PM

I'm on Sertraline now...so no jerking off now :ohmy: But I still take Zink 30 mg once a day...just in case I should be in the mood :biggrin: I got my Modalert(Modafinil) 200mg a few days ago. I had slept ok for two days, almost getting 6 hours of sleep, after adding Hydergine to the regiment. Hydergine+Piracetam+ALC reduces my daytime sleepiness. Anyhoo, my Modalert arrived late in the day but I decided to try it immediately. I took one pill about 17.00...and wow...I felt clearheaded and had a strong desire to getting things done! I got a lot of things done, but I took the pill too late in the day and did'nt feel sleepy at all at night.

Even though I stayed up all night, being productive, and did'nt get any sleep for almost 40 hours it felt like it was'nt that big of a problem. Many times the daytime sleepiness is tormenting, but now it was like...yeah I'm feeling tired, and so what! The problem is that I'm on Sertraline now, which is making me a bit sleepy, so Modalert just do what it is supposed to do - keeping me awake. But that's still a whole lot better than acting like a zombie all day. Just loved what Modalert did for my motivation, though.



EDIT: Is there a way to enhance the effect of Modalert?

Edited by Semisvensk, 30 November 2007 - 03:59 PM.


#20 keatah

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 04:46 AM

I'm on Sertraline now...so no jerking off now :ohmy: But I still take Zink 30 mg once a day...just in case I should be in the mood :biggrin: I got my Modalert(Modafinil) 200mg a few days ago. I had slept ok for two days, almost getting 6 hours of sleep, after adding Hydergine to the regiment. Hydergine+Piracetam+ALC reduces my daytime sleepiness. Anyhoo, my Modalert arrived late in the day but I decided to try it immediately. I took one pill about 17.00...and wow...I felt clearheaded and had a strong desire to getting things done! I got a lot of things done, but I took the pill too late in the day and did'nt feel sleepy at all at night.

Even though I stayed up all night, being productive, and did'nt get any sleep for almost 40 hours it felt like it was'nt that big of a problem. Many times the daytime sleepiness is tormenting, but now it was like...yeah I'm feeling tired, and so what! The problem is that I'm on Sertraline now, which is making me a bit sleepy, so Modalert just do what it is supposed to do - keeping me awake. But that's still a whole lot better than acting like a zombie all day. Just loved what Modalert did for my motivation, though.



EDIT: Is there a way to enhance the effect of Modalert?


To really beat depression, you're gonna need to figure out the root cause of it. It is pointless to try otherwise without that bit of info. Then attack that area. Whatever it may be. And chemicals are not always the answer.

#21 lyosha

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Posted 28 December 2007 - 05:38 AM

I'm on Sertraline now...so no jerking off now :ohmy: But I still take Zink 30 mg once a day...just in case I should be in the mood :biggrin: I got my Modalert(Modafinil) 200mg a few days ago. I had slept ok for two days, almost getting 6 hours of sleep, after adding Hydergine to the regiment. Hydergine+Piracetam+ALC reduces my daytime sleepiness. Anyhoo, my Modalert arrived late in the day but I decided to try it immediately. I took one pill about 17.00...and wow...I felt clearheaded and had a strong desire to getting things done! I got a lot of things done, but I took the pill too late in the day and did'nt feel sleepy at all at night.

Even though I stayed up all night, being productive, and did'nt get any sleep for almost 40 hours it felt like it was'nt that big of a problem. Many times the daytime sleepiness is tormenting, but now it was like...yeah I'm feeling tired, and so what! The problem is that I'm on Sertraline now, which is making me a bit sleepy, so Modalert just do what it is supposed to do - keeping me awake. But that's still a whole lot better than acting like a zombie all day. Just loved what Modalert did for my motivation, though.



EDIT: Is there a way to enhance the effect of Modalert?


occasional sleep deprivation is good in treating depression. but take my advice... do not do it often. make sure to get enough sleep on daily basis. this is crucial if you're taking any nootropics and especially modafinil-piracetam-hydergine-alcar combo. you may end up overstimulated and crash, after you crash enough times it'll only strengthen your depression. it may also leave you paranoid, which was the case with me. take care of your exercise regime, diet and sleep patterns first and then load yourself with nootropics. nootropics only work well when you have your lifestyle straightened out.

the best way to enhance modafinil is with more modafinil. piracetam will naturally slightly lower tolerance for modafinil in almost anyone. you can try drinking some coffee, but i don't see why would you want to be that wired. or you can try taking some deprenyl, but once again it all sounds like too much overstimulation.

Edited by lyosha, 28 December 2007 - 05:42 AM.


#22 Yearningforyears

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 11:13 PM

You want to increase the effect of a central stimulant, even though you´re not sleeping well? Does sound like life shortening to me...
Anyway I´m replying to your first question regarding nootropics and their usefulness for depression.
Yes I have noticed a major change since being on aniracetam for roughly ten days. It took away my anxiety, mania, made me less socially anxious, took away negative thoughts. OCD almost gone as well... No more tics... Normal!
It´s absolutely amazing in my case. Nothing has ever worked this good! Been trying sam-e (made me manic as hell but at least it was funnier than being depressed), rhodiola, st.johns wort, kava, damiana, phenibut, piracetam (I´m using this one together with piracetam), kratom (for the occasional trip) and some more...
Point is. I almost don´t recognise myself. Interacting with others is actually fun "again"! Memory is enhanced.
Life is enjoyable and I feel hope, together with a thirst for exploration.

#23 Yearningforyears

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 11:28 PM

I´ve also changed my diet a bit. more vegetables and fruit. that´s all =)

#24 jackj

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 01:09 AM

Diet etc is #1 but I found Mucuna pruriens really blows the blues away and made me beefcake which got me lots of poon. I used to get upset and depressed of things now I just deal with it. Granted I haven't taken it for about three months now but will do as soon as I start to feel the same again.

Oh yeah did I mention diet and exercise? And I'm talking about the natural stuff not the synthetic.

Edited by unlucid, 17 January 2008 - 01:13 AM.


#25 lucid

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 06:18 AM

Anti-depressent prescription medication come a few basic varieties:
Those that target the reuptake of one or more of the following: serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine.
These do work, it takes about 1 month for you to really feel the effects (and side-effects of these drugs) which commonly include sexual disfunction for SSRI's, and agitation for NDRI's like welbutrin. However taking welbutrin can counteract the sexual side effect of SSRI's without producing agitation. So one trick commonly used is combining a couple of drugs to hit all three of the neuro transmitters. (welbutrin and cymbalta for example) Also, a temporary loss of sexual function can be a small price to pay for feeling good every day.

Lots of the symptoms of depression: over-eating, laziness, sleeping dysfunction can easily put one in a positive feed back loop where it is hard to develop and maintain good habits which will ultimately make us fulfilled and happy. Anti-depressants are a great way to get out of the 'depressive cycle' and develop good habits (healthy eating, sleep, socializing, and exercising). Eventually, you ween yourself off of drugs.

#26 kenj

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 06:48 PM

>>> and develop good habits (healthy eating, sleep, socializing, and exercising). Eventually, you ween yourself off of drugs.

The big 4 that can ruin many a pharmaceutical company. Not underestimating a depression here, or the significance of SSRI's for the reasons Lucid outlines, - I do think we as humans *need* to practice these mentioned 'life skills'/habits continually, to deal with life's ups'n'downs, and prevent any (influenced by age, genetics, etc.) depression.

#27 simon_marklar

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 10:11 AM

hey i've been feeling really empty and down for ages and it broke a couple of weeks ago. i dunno if i was depressed because i could get out of the house and have fun and stuff, but i just felt empty alot of the time. the first the first time i tried ketamine, and while the experience was awesome and i have not laughed that hard in a while (floppy legs make walking fun hahah)... when it wore off, the mood stayed, and is still here. i have not felt this good in ages... no longer empty, i feel almost like i've been reborn.

There were reports of ketamine being succesfully used on chronic depression suferers, with almost instant results.
http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/5253800.stm

The participants were all depression sufferers who had tried an average of six treatments that had failed.

The researchers then measured their levels of depression minutes, hours and days after the dose was given.

Lead researcher Dr Carlos Zarate Junior, head of the mood and anxiety disorders programme at NIMH, said: "Within 110 minutes, half of the patients given ketamine showed a 50% decrease in symptoms."

By the end of day one, he added, 71% had responded to the drug. And at this point the team found 29% of these patients were nearly symptom free.


if you can find some from a reliable source, a small dose seems to be all thats required for the anti-depresant properties to work... im not saying you should, just offerering what happened to (unexpectedly) work for me... maybe the info will help, maybe not.

#28 cain01

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:49 AM

Three months back i suffered from depression because of my wife she use to harass me . She use to harass me for money every now and than i use to fight with her daily and i started to think about her daily and feel depressed and one day i went to church and confessed to father and he said to bring to him and i took her to church and i don't know what the father had said my wife starting loving me. instead of going for therapy's and wasting all your money you just go to the place where you feel relax and you will lose all your depressions.


================================================================================
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Cain.


Clinical Depression
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#29 csrpj

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 09:33 PM

Masturbation and religion can help. You don't actually have to believe in a god to enjoy the benefits of religion; I find that just imagining the concept of one can cause some psychological comfort.

You should also consider cannabis and psychedelics. Cannabis grows hippocampal cells and has been shown to be effective in treating depression while psychedelics such as DXM, LSD, and LSA have also been shown to have beneficial effects.


DXM is not a psychedelic; it's a dissociative. the experience if not taken at too high a dose can be very fun and interesting, but it's not healthy for your brain to do too often.

LSD, LSA, and other psychedelics - mushrooms, mescaline, DMT - are not physically uhealthy to take, and are very powerful psychologically. among other qualities, psychedelics will magnify emotions, so if you are taking them in a place you're uncomfortable at or or you're in an especially negative headspace, don't take it. they let you consciously observe things in your subconscious, making you more self-aware, and they break down the categories your brain uses to interpret the world. this process may give you insight into why you are depressed.

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#30 Mixter

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 09:50 PM

DXM is not a psychedelic; it's a dissociative. the experience if not taken at too high a dose can be very fun and interesting, but it's not healthy for your brain to do too often.


Yes, brain vacuoles could be considered slightly unhealthy. Just a tiny little bit. :|? http://en.wikipedia....Olney's_lesions

LSD, LSA, and other psychedelics - mushrooms, mescaline, DMT - are not physically uhealthy to take, and are very powerful psychologically. among other qualities, psychedelics will magnify emotions


BAD advice. They will magnify a psychosis if you have one. If you're depressed and reading this: many psychological/psychiatric illnesses can initially mask as depression. Try to "cure" it with a psychedelic drug and you could trigger a predisposition for persisting psychosis. Over time I have stumbled upon quite some reports of people being treated for depression only to find out the treatment was ineffective since they had a different issue, and many of these can make you susceptible to adverse effects when taking psychedelic substances. "Acid is not for every brain - only the healthy, happy, wholesome, handsome, hopeful, humorous, high-velocity should seek these experiences. This elitism is totally self-determined. Unless you are self-confident, self-directed, self-selected, please abstain." (famous quote by Tim Leary)

If St.Johns Wort and documented nootropics like choline don't help with depression, maybe try good old tricyclic antidepressives instead of the new junk. I remember one study that showed comparative efficacy of St.Johns wort to all SSRI's (esp. prozac as reference SSRI), and another recent one mentioning that all the new classes of antidepressives are not proven to be more efficient than TCAs. The major problem with TCA is liver damage on overdosage, so don't overdose them, they might have a few side-effects but it seems to me like they may have fewer of the unpredictable ones of the modern-generation like the anhedonia often described here or increased suicide risk.

Edited by Mixter, 14 November 2009 - 09:52 PM.





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