55 replies to this topic

[edward]

After weighing in on Part 1... Those of you who are still taking NAC, what are your dosages... I've included low dosages mainly for people taking it in Ortho Core or other multi supplements.

edit: I left a gap between the 300-400 and 500-600... changing pole to remove gap (will not affect data so far)

Edited by edward, 08 February 2008 - 04:14 AM.

[health_nutty]

oops, after I voted I realize I do get a small amount from my ortho core.

[edward]

oops, after I voted I realize I do get a small amount from my ortho core.

Lol, you must like voting in polls

[rubegoldberg]

I take 450mg

[edward]

I take 450mg

Ha ha, got it I left a gap between the 300-400 and 500-600... changing pole to remove gap (will not affect data so far)

[health_nutty]

oops, after I voted I realize I do get a small amount from my ortho core.

Lol, you must like voting in polls

Just *your* polls edward

[maxwatt]

I tried NAC on two occasions, dropped it quickly both times because I couldn't discern any effect. The heart enlargement artrey narrowing effects confirm my lack of enthusiasm.

[liorrh]

I take as needed (pre drinking, pollution, with stimulants etc)

[FunkOdyssey]

edward, you have a glitch in the poll -- namely, the even on-the-hundred mg doses that most people will likely land on are each in TWO categories (200mg, 500mg, etc).

I take 200mg daily, do I choose 100-200mg or 200-300mg?

[pycnogenol]

I'm taking 600 mg of NAC (i.e., N-acetyl-L-cysteine) on Monday and Friday for a total of 1200 mg per week. I use the Solgar brand.

[zorba990]

I'm taking 600 mg of NAC (i.e., N-acetyl-L-cysteine) on Monday and Friday for a total of 1200 mg per week. I use the Solgar brand.

Still taking 2400mg a day. No problems.

Re: "The heart enlargement artrey narrowing effects confirm my lack of enthusiasm."

Has this really been confirmed in humans? Have there been any reported cases of such effects?

My understanding is that the rat study used
10mg/ml of water for a total approximate intake of 300mg per day. If I go by
Ray Sahelian's measurements here (and I think he overestimates mouse weight):
http://www.raysaheli...ylcysteine.html
that works out to 448,000 mg of NAC per day!
Hardly in the same ballpark as 2400mg or any other reasonable dose.

Edited by zorba990, 12 December 2008 - 11:18 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

I'm taking 600 mg of NAC (i.e., N-acetyl-L-cysteine) on Monday and Friday for a total of 1200 mg per week. I use the Solgar brand.

Still taking 2400mg a day. No problems.

Re: "The heart enlargement artrey narrowing effects confirm my lack of enthusiasm."

Has this really been confirmed in humans? Have there been any reported cases of such effects?

My understanding is that the rat study used
10mg/ml of water for a total approximate intake of 300mg per day. If I go by
Ray Sahelian's measurements here (and I think he overestimates mouse weight):
http://www.raysaheli...ylcysteine.html
that works out to 448,000 mg of NAC per day!
Hardly in the same ballpark as 2400mg or any other reasonable dose.

Has there ever, in the extensive history of human NAC supplementation and use by mainstream medicine as a drug to treat and prevent liver toxicity, renal toxicity, etc, been a single reported case of NAC-induced PAH in humans? Ever? Because I feel like a great disservice has been done to this noble nutrient, and a mountain of positive literature and human clinical evidence has been undermined by a single extreme overdose study in mice.

Please tell me I'm wrong.

[FunkOdyssey]

Yeah that's what I thought.

[yoyo]

I'm taking 600 mg of NAC (i.e., N-acetyl-L-cysteine) on Monday and Friday for a total of 1200 mg per week. I use the Solgar brand.

Still taking 2400mg a day. No problems.

Re: "The heart enlargement artrey narrowing effects confirm my lack of enthusiasm."

Has this really been confirmed in humans? Have there been any reported cases of such effects?

My understanding is that the rat study used
10mg/ml of water for a total approximate intake of 300mg per day. If I go by
Ray Sahelian's measurements here (and I think he overestimates mouse weight):
http://www.raysaheli...ylcysteine.html
that works out to 448,000 mg of NAC per day!
Hardly in the same ballpark as 2400mg or any other reasonable dose.

Has there ever, in the extensive history of human NAC supplementation and use by mainstream medicine as a drug to treat and prevent liver toxicity, renal toxicity, etc, been a single reported case of NAC-induced PAH in humans? Ever? Because I feel like a great disservice has been done to this noble nutrient, and a mountain of positive literature and human clinical evidence has been undermined by a single extreme overdose study in mice.

Please tell me I'm wrong.

do we know it would have been attributed to the NAC? lots of toxins didn't get connected to their effects for a long time.

[FunkOdyssey]

We would know if a case report existed linking NAC to PAH in humans because it would be stated it explicitly in the case report. So the question remains, in the extensive history of human dietary supplementation with NAC, and in the extensive history of NAC's use as a prescription drug by mainstream medicine, has there ever been a single (one, 1) report of NAC causing PAH?

[zorba990]

I'm taking 600 mg of NAC (i.e., N-acetyl-L-cysteine) on Monday and Friday for a total of 1200 mg per week. I use the Solgar brand.

Still taking 2400mg a day. No problems.

Re: "The heart enlargement artrey narrowing effects confirm my lack of enthusiasm."

Has this really been confirmed in humans? Have there been any reported cases of such effects?

My understanding is that the rat study used
10mg/ml of water for a total approximate intake of 300mg per day. If I go by
Ray Sahelian's measurements here (and I think he overestimates mouse weight):
http://www.raysaheli...ylcysteine.html
that works out to 448,000 mg of NAC per day!
Hardly in the same ballpark as 2400mg or any other reasonable dose.

Has there ever, in the extensive history of human NAC supplementation and use by mainstream medicine as a drug to treat and prevent liver toxicity, renal toxicity, etc, been a single reported case of NAC-induced PAH in humans? Ever? Because I feel like a great disservice has been done to this noble nutrient, and a mountain of positive literature and human clinical evidence has been undermined by a single extreme overdose study in mice.

Please tell me I'm wrong.

do we know it would have been attributed to the NAC? lots of toxins didn't get connected to their effects for a long time.

Here's a study with what appears to be very high risk patients. Seems like it would have shown up as an effect here.


1: Diabetes Care. 2008 May;31(5):940-4. Epub 2008 Feb 11.
Long Term N-Acetylcysteine and L-Arginine Administration Reduces Endothelial Activation and Systolic Blood Pressure in Hypertensive Patients with Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus.
Conclusions: The NAC+ARG administration seems to be a potential well-tolerated antiatherogenic therapy since it improves the endothelial function in hypertensive patients with type 2 diabetes by improving NO bioavailability via reduction of the oxidative stress and increase of NO production. Our study's results give prominence to its potential use in the primary and secondary cardiovascular prevention in these patients.

PMID: 18268065 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

[stephen_b]

One benefit of NAC that I had never heard about: it protects against toxins produced by Clostridium difficile (PMID 10403388):

Toxins A and B from the anaerobic bacterium Clostridium difficile are the causative agents of the antibiotic-associated pseudomembraneous colitis. At the subcellular level, they inhibit the Rho family GTPases, thus causing alterations of the actin cytoskeleton. The cytoskeletal integrity is also controlled by the redox state of cells. Therefore, we have evaluated whether an oxidative imbalance could be involved in the toxin-induced cytopathic effects. Our results indicate that both toxins induce oxidative stress with a significant depletion of protein SH-groups. These responses and the cytoskeleton-dependent cell retraction and rounding are significantly counteracted by N-acetylcysteine but not by alpha-tocopherol. Our study provides the first evidence that the thiol supplier N-acetylcysteine impairs the cellular intoxication by acting on the cytoskeleton integrity. This also suggests a possible beneficial role for this drug during therapeutic intervention.

StephenB

[yoyo]

hm. with all the psychotropic benefits i think its worth taking this still.

[gattaca]

It's being used at doses up to 9.8 grams in various clinical trials. It's easy to get approved for study in humans. It's safe, people.

[krillin]

We would know if a case report existed linking NAC to PAH in humans because it would be stated it explicitly in the case report. So the question remains, in the extensive history of human dietary supplementation with NAC, and in the extensive history of NAC's use as a prescription drug by mainstream medicine, has there ever been a single (one, 1) report of NAC causing PAH?

600 mg/day increases hypoxic ventilatory response in humans, which is step one on the road to PAH.

http://bloodjournal..../full/99/5/1552

[tunt01]

We would know if a case report existed linking NAC to PAH in humans because it would be stated it explicitly in the case report. So the question remains, in the extensive history of human dietary supplementation with NAC, and in the extensive history of NAC's use as a prescription drug by mainstream medicine, has there ever been a single (one, 1) report of NAC causing PAH?

600 mg/day increases hypoxic ventilatory response in humans, which is step one on the road to PAH.

http://bloodjournal..../full/99/5/1552

i personally quit taking NAC a couple days ago after readingthis guy's blog comment here. His comment on December 21, 2008 made me cautious.

[FunkOdyssey]

We would know if a case report existed linking NAC to PAH in humans because it would be stated it explicitly in the case report. So the question remains, in the extensive history of human dietary supplementation with NAC, and in the extensive history of NAC's use as a prescription drug by mainstream medicine, has there ever been a single (one, 1) report of NAC causing PAH?

600 mg/day increases hypoxic ventilatory response in humans, which is step one on the road to PAH.

http://bloodjournal..../full/99/5/1552

That's an interesting paper, I didn't know the hypoxic ventilatory response reduced with age. The authors propose NAC be used in the elderly specifically to increase HVR among other things.

In any event, as far as I'm aware there are no reports of NAC causing PAH in a human , and there's never been a single one, and this is by no means a new drug. I can only assume the explanation lies with the massive difference in dose between what humans actually use and what the rats were given to produce PAH.

[edward]

I am still taking NAC, the benefits outweigh the risks in my opinion. I take 1200 mg per day.

[VespeneGas]

I take acetaminophen on a daily basis to help manage pain (can only tolerate so much aspirin/ibuprofen etc), so I take 600 mg NAC qd.

[mrak1979]

pardon my ignorance, but what are the benefits of nac ?

[nancyd]

I have NAC and when I take it I take 500 mg/day. However, I'm aware of that study of its effect on the heart and when I take it I get some chest pains which I get once in a while anyway. I think it's just coincidence that it shows up at that time. I mean there's no way it would have an effect that fast. So then I get nervous and stop. ugh! I want to start taking it again.

Edited by nancyd, 20 May 2009 - 12:09 AM.

[Lufega]

I started taking 750 mg a day to lower liver enzymes and hopefully reverse hydropic change. Just got back my AST/ALT and they are almost in the lower range. All this after only a couple of weeks. NAC is very good stuff.

However, just found out my ammonia levels are a bit high. This can explain my foggy brain situation... I read glutamine can help here?

Edited by Lufega, 20 May 2009 - 10:53 PM.

[fatboy]

600 mg/day increases hypoxic ventilatory response in humans, which is step one on the road to PAH.

Yeah, fuck it. I drink so much that PAH is much lower on my list of concerns than cirrhosis. I take 600 mg every time I drink. Along with milk thistle, SAM-e, ALA, curcumin, and a shit load of other hepatoprotectives. I'll let you know when and if my ALT/AST are ever out of range.

[pycnogenol]

Just got back my AST/ALT and they are almost in the lower range.

Are they below 50?

[waldemar]

Yeah, fuck it. I drink so much that PAH is much lower on my list of concerns than cirrhosis. I take 600 mg every time I drink. Along with milk thistle, SAM-e, ALA, curcumin, and a shit load of other hepatoprotectives. I'll let you know when and if my ALT/AST are ever out of range.

Your list might be interesting.