39 replies to this topic

[waldemar]

I am currently trying to find an ideal supplement combination for fighting hangovers caused by alcohol. I'm fortunately not an alcoholic, but every few weeks I drink a little more and the next day is "suboptimal" ......

Anyway, here is my suggestion for a mix, please comment:

N-acetyl-L-cysteine 600 MG
L-Methionine 150 MG
Na R-Alpha Lipoic Acid 120 MG
Thiamine HCl 6 MG
Vitamin B12 300 MCG
Folic Acid 600 MCG
Vitamin C 420 MG
L Acidophilus 120 MG
Magnesium 100 MG


N-acetyl-L-cysteine 600 MG
Is metabolized to Glutathione, which reduces Acetaldehyde.

L-Methionine 150 MG
Possibly protects the liver from hepatotoxicity.
Unfortunately it also reduces absorption of folic acid.

Na R-Alpha Lipoic Acid 120 MG
Lipoic acid is a good sulfhydryl antioxidant and should also reduce Acetaldehyde.

Thiamine HCl 6 MG
Vitamin B12 300 MCG
Folic Acid 600 MCG
Vitamin B in general is depleted by alcohol and Acetaldehyde.

Vitamin C 420 MG
Antioxidant, keeps Cysteine and Lipoic Acid in their reduced states so that they aren't "used up" so fast.

L Acidophilus 120 MG
Acidophilus is good for digestion.

Magnesium 100 MG
Magnesium is also depleted by alcohol.

[david ellis]

I have got a suggestion -Phosphatidylserine. To help repair the damage to the brain cells. A quick experiment would tell you if it works for you. Come to think of it, I need to do the experiment too.

[Phoebus]

6 mg of thiamine? i would suggest much, much higher dose. i have taken a full gram at a time and suffered no ill effects.

here is something on thiamine and alcohol. demonstrates that taking thiamine both before and after alcohol consumption is wise. also be sure to be fully hydrated BEFORE you start drinking. this is critical as alcohol interferes with your cells ability to hydrate. hydrating before drinking limits hangovers and headaches. a good portion of hang over effects are strictly the result of dehydration.


http://optimalhealth...u/thiamine.html
Clinical data indicates that 3mg thiamine per stubby of beer (375ml) is more than sufficient to prevent Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome and around 90% of alcoholic brain damage, however hitherto unpublished findings of this researcher indicate that optimum hangover-eliminating doses are considerably larger.

This evidence would suggest that a third thiamine-dependent process may be a factor in hangovers. The most likely candidate appears to be a multienzyme complex called alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase, which not only catalyses a critical thiamine-dependent step in the energy producing breakdown of alcohol, but is also at a point at which amino acid and carbohydrate metabolism interact. The substrate of this enzyme complex, alpha-ketoglutarate, can be converted to glutamate which in turn can be converted to gamma-aminobutyric acid, (GABA) an inhibitory neurotransmitter and the active metabolite of gamma-hydroxybutyrate, (GHB) with the street drug name "Fantasy".

It is because of this metabolic link that, while essential for normal brain function, glutamate is toxic in excess, (as anyone who has become ill after eating Chinese food with mono-sodium glutamate (MSG) can attest!)

Inhibition of alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase under conditions of limited thiamine is likely to lead to a build-up of alpha-ketoglutarate formed from alcohol, which would be expected to drive the production of the alternative uninhibited glutamate pathway and hence to increase GABA production.

Speculation suggests that the much larger doses of thiamine than are necessary to prevent Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome may substantially enhance the activity of alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase and so prevent a build up of glutamate and hence GABA in the cerebellum of the brain.

This hypothesis might account for the observation that large thiamine doses during alcoholic binges also tend to reduce nausea and dizziness during drinking as well as reducing or eliminating headaches and memory loss the next day.

Edited by Phoebus, 28 September 2008 - 01:24 AM.

[waldemar]

Ok, so the first improvement would be:

Phosphatidylserine 100 mg
Thiamine HCl 30 mg

What about the other stuff? Too low dosage? Too high? Does anything lead to negative reactions in combination with alcohol?

Regarding water, is it also available in capsule form? ;-)
Dihydrogenmonoxide 1.000.000 mg

[Phoebus]

Ok, so the first improvement would be:

Phosphatidylserine 100 mg
Thiamine HCl 30 mg

What about the other stuff? Too low dosage? Too high? Does anything lead to negative reactions in combination with alcohol?

Regarding water, is it also available in capsule form? ;-)
Dihydrogenmonoxide 1.000.000 mg

i would try 200 - 300 mg thiamine both before and after drinking. for water i would drink plenty of it before hand and add some electrolytes like "emergen-C"

[waldemar]

That much thiamine? O_o
What about the other B vitamins?

[Phoebus]

That much thiamine? O_o
What about the other B vitamins?

yup, all the b vitamins are crucial for alcohol breakdown and liver health. i like 'country life' co-enzyme b complex caps. but i would still take thiamine on top of that. the nice thing about thiamine is that generally speaking it doesn't cause stomach upset unlike some of the other b vits. maybe 300 mg is too much, but at least take 100 mg before and after. like i said i have taken 1,000 mg with no negative side effects at all. red star fortified nutritional yeast is another option for b complex.

i actually experimented with water and hang overs and was pleasantly surprised at how effective getting fully hydrated before drinking was at preventing hang over effects. i usually drank water + electrolytes till my urine was coming out clear. then i would drink a small amount of water in between alcohol drinks also. worked like a charm. yeah, you pee a lot but its worth it.

did you have milk thistle on your list? if not, put that on there too.

[waldemar]

Ok, but what about the stomach and intestines? Afaik alcohol isn't good for them either. :-/
Is the acidophilus a good idea? Should I add other things like ginger root extract?

What about reduced Zinc absorption because of the folic acid? Should I add zinc too?

[Mixter]

The idea is OK, but that will only work before drinking
the alcohol, not after, when the toxic substances
(aldehydes and whatever they cause) have built up.

A simple hangover prevention is also to drink about 1 L
of pure water for every three glasses of 20% alcohol (wine),
half for beer, double the amount for concentrated alcohol.

You're going to get some damage from alcohol everytime
you go over an equivalent of 2-3 glasses of wine, for example
endothelial damage in the capillaries which can lead to
thrombosis or reperfusion damage in tiny areas... none of
this damage is noticeable, but accumulates over time...
so consider no more than a glass of wine at all.

[hamishm00]

add b6, vitamin c, nacl.

longer term options are milk thistle (as mentioned) as well as SAM-E or something like that for liver health. Taurine.

Edited by hamishm00, 28 September 2008 - 04:10 PM.

[waldemar]

mixter:
Yes, water is very important. The supplements are no replacement for water ;-)
Is there anything we can do against the endothelial damage?

hamishm00:
Vitamin C was already there, and I've added B6 now. What do you think about the dosages? And why would you add the salt?


This would be the improved mix:

N-acetyl-L-cysteine 600 MG
L-Methionine 120 MG
Folic Acid 1200 MCG
Niacinamide 30 MG
Pantothenic Acid 30 MG
Thiamine HCl 90 MG
Vitamin B12 600 MCG
Vitamin B6 30 MG
Vitamin C 300 MG
L Acidophilus 120 MG
Riboflavin 9 MG
Magnesium 120 MG
Zinc 12 MG

[waldemar]

Concerning zinc and magnesium: is aspartate better, or chelate? Or even zinc methionine?

I already have ascorbic acid in there... would magnesium ascorbate be a good idea?

[rubegoldberg]

perhaps some phosphatidylcholine and Alpha GPC.

source natural makes a hangover formula...

Supplement Facts for Tablet
Serving Size: 3 tablet(s) Amount %DV
Sodium 10 mg <2%
Vitamin C (as calcium ascorbate, 1 g 1,670%
ascorbic acid & manganese ascorbate)
Vitamin E (as natural D-alpha tocopheryl) 30 IU 100%
Thiamine (vitamin B-1) 300 mg 20,000%
Riboflavin (vitamin B-2) 15 mg 880%
Niacinamide 50 mg Niacin 25 mg 75 mg 380%
Vitamin B-6 (as pyridoxine HCl) 30 mg 1,500%
Folate (as folic acid) 300 mcg 80%
Vitamin B-12 (as cyanocobalamin) 30 mcg 500%
Biotin 50 mcg 15%
Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B-5) 25 mg 250%
Calcium (as calcium ascorbate) 106 mg 10%
Magnesium (as magnesium oxide) 200 mg 50%
Manganese (as manganese ascorbate) 4 mg 200%
N-Acetyl Cysteine 150 mg †
Silymarin (from milk thistle seed extract) 150 mg †
L-Cysteine (HCl) 100 mg
Feverfew Leaf Extract 100 mg †
Choline (as choline bitartrate) 100 mg †
Chlorella 50 mg †
Phosphatidyl Choline (as lecithin) 25 mg †
Inositol 25 mg †
DMAE (as DMAE bitartrate) 25 mg †
Proprietary Herb Blend: 1.3 mg †
Kudzu Flower, Magnolia Bark, Germinated Rice, Chinese Mint Leaf, Crysanthemum Flower, Marshmallow Root, Gravel Root, Slippery Elm Bark, Gastrodia Tuber, Clove Fruit, and Fennel Seed.

[Wedrifid]

Taken before alcohol consumption:

• 5 mg Melatonin.
• 500 mg Rhodilia Rosea.
• 1 g L-Thianine
• 1g L-Tryptophan
• 20 minutes of progressive muscule relaxation.

With a bit of luck you'll fall asleep and miss the chance to poison yourself.

[hamishm00]

Taken before alcohol consumption:

• 5 mg Melatonin.
• 500 mg Rhodilia Rosea.
• 1 g L-Thianine
• 1g L-Tryptophan
• 20 minutes of progressive muscule relaxation.

With a bit of luck you'll fall asleep and miss the chance to poison yourself.

Hahahah yeah.

Then add a benzo to the mix, then you know you can't drink otherwise it's game over.

[GoodFellas]

perhaps some phosphatidylcholine and Alpha GPC.

source natural makes a hangover formula...

Supplement Facts for Tablet
Serving Size: 3 tablet(s) Amount %DV
Sodium 10 mg <2%
Vitamin C (as calcium ascorbate, 1 g 1,670%
ascorbic acid & manganese ascorbate)
Vitamin E (as natural D-alpha tocopheryl) 30 IU 100%
Thiamine (vitamin B-1) 300 mg 20,000%
Riboflavin (vitamin B-2) 15 mg 880%
Niacinamide 50 mg Niacin 25 mg 75 mg 380%
Vitamin B-6 (as pyridoxine HCl) 30 mg 1,500%
Folate (as folic acid) 300 mcg 80%
Vitamin B-12 (as cyanocobalamin) 30 mcg 500%
Biotin 50 mcg 15%
Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B-5) 25 mg 250%
Calcium (as calcium ascorbate) 106 mg 10%
Magnesium (as magnesium oxide) 200 mg 50%
Manganese (as manganese ascorbate) 4 mg 200%
N-Acetyl Cysteine 150 mg †
Silymarin (from milk thistle seed extract) 150 mg †
L-Cysteine (HCl) 100 mg
Feverfew Leaf Extract 100 mg †
Choline (as choline bitartrate) 100 mg †
Chlorella 50 mg †
Phosphatidyl Choline (as lecithin) 25 mg †
Inositol 25 mg †
DMAE (as DMAE bitartrate) 25 mg †
Proprietary Herb Blend: 1.3 mg †
Kudzu Flower, Magnolia Bark, Germinated Rice, Chinese Mint Leaf, Crysanthemum Flower, Marshmallow Root, Gravel Root, Slippery Elm Bark, Gastrodia Tuber, Clove Fruit, and Fennel Seed.

I'll check that one out too. Right now, I'm using 5000mg of Vitamin C, some NAC, ALCAR, Liv.52 and Milk Thistle, but I'm always looking for something better;D

[GoodFellas]

Bumping this one a bit to see if there's any new thoughts about this.

[KimberCT]

I take 500mg thiamine and 1-2L of water before beginning to drink.  I then take 560mg activated charcoal with my first drink and 560mg every four thereafter.

Liver protectants are already part of my daily regimen.

[Redhill]

What about eating food to help absorb the alcohol?

What might you suggest in regards to before, during, and after drinking?

What type of food...and when?

[hamishm00]

Why don't you just take something to completely neutralise the alcohol in the stomach so it doesn't even hit the bloodstream. There are some options here.

[waldemar]

hamishm00: Which ones?

[perchance2dream]

Curcumin might be a good addition since it has been shown to reduce ethanol-induced brain and testicle damage among other things:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

[hamishm00]

There was a pill which neutralised alcohol in the stomach, but I can't find any references to it anywhere on the web. Sorry.

[russianBEAR]

Most advertised "hangover cures" are a load of bs, as far as supplements, I find that absolutely nothing helps remedy all the symptoms. Stuff like GABA supplements are better for the mental part of the hangover, certain foods/supplements can help calm your stomach etc, but the only real cure IMO is time.

Also I think it's dangerous to have your hangover cured completely every time, because that's how you become an alcoholic. No negative reaction = why not continue on? But again I've always had issues with addiction so it may not be the case for you.

I say it's better to tough it out on your "suboptimal" day and just relax and go with the flow. I've made the mistake of taking benzodiazepines before after my amphetamine binges back in the day. Well I got all the side effects from amp to go away, but I got hooked on both substances very severely, since there was no evident negative side effects, and one pretty much counteracted the other for a perfect combo.

So I guess sometimes it's better to just let the liquor run its course IMO.

[Mike_N]

I didn't read through the entire thread... so, maybe someone else already mentioned this... but, I see you already have B6 listed. Have you thought of the coenzyme form pyridoxal 5 phosphate (P5P). Very cheap sublingual versions are out there. Good for a boost the "next day" when you wake up too

Vitamin B6 is essential to make virtually all neurotransmitters including GABA. GABA is brutalized by alcohol. When an alcoholic goes into serious withdrawal its basically all cause of depleted GABA. That's why benzodiazepines are given to help with the withdrawal cause it binds to receptor cites on the GABA receptors.

Edited by Mike_N, 07 July 2009 - 11:09 PM.

[meursault]

Taurine - The Ultimate Hang Over Cure? - BBC

[russianBEAR]

Hahahah yeah.

Then add a benzo to the mix, then you know you can't drink otherwise it's game over.

Well for some people adding a benzo to the mix indicates it's game on Hilarity ensued when my friend was so loaded on benzos and liquor he called his girl at 3am asking her if he can cheat on her with this other girl he's with right now  


The danger here is you pop a benzo and you black out and if you were planning on drinking anywaays, you might start and have no recollection of that.

Good luck not killing old ladies with an axe and keeping yourself out of jail then )

Although speaking of that - benzos are the best possible hangover cure, especially nitrazepam. However I wouldn't recommend messing with this class of drugs ever for any reason, unless you're seriously off your rocker permanently.

Edited by russianBEAR, 08 July 2009 - 10:17 AM.

[waldemar]

Thanks for all these (sometimes very mixed) suggestions. I'm not going to take benzos. ;-)


What I am currently using (roughly divided into groups):

NAC: 600 mg
Taurine: 180 mg

Acidophilus: 120 mg

Vitamin C: 300 mg

Thiamine: 90 mg
Riboflavin: 6 mg
Niacinamide: 30 mg
Vitamin B6: 30 mg
Folic acid: 1200 mcg
Vitamin B12: 600 mcg
Biotin: 300 mcg
Pantothenic acid: 30 mg

Magnesium: 120 mg
Zinc: 15 mg
Selenium: 70 mcg
Copper: 2 mg
Chromium: 120 mcg


Divided into three doses: one before, one during drinking, one afterwards.

It works quite well, but it's far from completely removing the hangover. I'd say it weakens the symptoms by 30-50%, but I have no idea how much of that is placebo.

A funny thing I have noticed is that this combination is mildly thermogenic, regardless if taken with or withot alcohol. Does anyone have an idea why that might be?

Some improvements (hopefully) I am thinking about:
Reducing or removing the folic acid
Reducing or removing the copper
Reducing vitamin C by half
Adding lipoic acid
Increasing magnesium

[GoodFellas]

Waldemar: What's Acidophilus?

Btw, you should take way more Vit C, 2000-4000mg would be better.

[hamishm00]

Acidophilous iz. Probiotic.

Waldemar: why did you decide against Milk Thistle?