31 replies to this topic

[Gerald W. Gaston]

OK first poll and it is late... so likely I missed some good poll options and possibly messed up some questions. Let me know.

But I have seen talk of Metformin on the forum for years. I am curious as to who takes it, and why, or why not. All questions except the dosage and form allow for multiple selection.

I guess this one is a little screwy with the choices... Now I know the limitation of the polls



edit: typo in poll

Edited by frankbuzin, 24 June 2009 - 07:10 AM.

[gregandbeaker]

2 grams a day, 1 in the morning and one in the evening since I was diagnosed with Diabetes type II in late 2001.

[pycnogenol]

2 grams a day, 1 in the morning and one in the evening since I was diagnosed with Diabetes type II in late 2001.

Hi,

What is your blood glucose readings on 2 grams per day? Do you have any side effects?

Edited by pycnogenol, 24 June 2009 - 03:02 PM.

[gregandbeaker]

2 grams a day, 1 in the morning and one in the evening since I was diagnosed with Diabetes type II in late 2001.

Hi,

What is your blood glucose readings on 2 grams per day? Do you have any side effects?

Well, I don't recall ever noticing any physical side-effects from the Metformin. My BC averaged 85 over the last month. I also take Januvia and 35 units of Lantus in the evening. Paleo diet and daily 2 mile walks also. Hard to single out the specific therapeutic affects of metformin alone, but I continue to take it without reservations because of all of the recent positive reports coming out about it.

[david ellis]

Well, I don't recall ever noticing any physical side-effects from the Metformin. My BC averaged 85 over the last month. I also take Januvia and 35 units of Lantus in the evening. Paleo diet and daily 2 mile walks also. Hard to single out the specific therapeutic affects of metformin alone, but I continue to take it without reservations because of all of the recent positive reports coming out about it.

I am curious, a blood glucose of 85 is pretty good. What is your hemoglobin A1c? I gave up on using metformin because of stomach upset and effects on testosterone, but I have been thinking of using Lantus to control my blood sugar and sharply reduce my production of AGE. My blood glucose is not even close to the diabetic range, but I am thinking there might be a worthwhile reduction in AGE by using Lantus.

[gregandbeaker]

Well, I don't recall ever noticing any physical side-effects from the Metformin. My BC averaged 85 over the last month. I also take Januvia and 35 units of Lantus in the evening. Paleo diet and daily 2 mile walks also. Hard to single out the specific therapeutic affects of metformin alone, but I continue to take it without reservations because of all of the recent positive reports coming out about it.

I am curious, a blood glucose of 85 is pretty good. What is your hemoglobin A1c? I gave up on using metformin because of stomach upset and effects on testosterone, but I have been thinking of using Lantus to control my blood sugar and sharply reduce my production of AGE. My blood glucose is not even close to the diabetic range, but I am thinking there might be a worthwhile reduction in AGE by using Lantus.

Out of all the pharmaceuticals I've been prescribed for diabetes type II, the Lantus has been by far the most effective. I wish my doctor had offered it right away, but I guess many people have stigmas about getting/giving themselves shots. Its a once a day thing at night. It really helps get that fasting glucose level down in the morning (I was 71 this morning). Since I started this paleo/CR style my A1C has dropped from 8 to 5.9 and now 5.4. I'm still having trouble with LIPID levels though. Perhaps I was overdoing it with the nuts at 30 grams each walnuts and almonds and 20 grams of pepitas everyday. My good cholesterol has been locked at 38 for about 3 years now. Seems to be an unmovable object :-)

[david ellis]

Out of all the pharmaceuticals I've been prescribed for diabetes type II, the Lantus has been by far the most effective. I wish my doctor had offered it right away, but I guess many people have stigmas about getting/giving themselves shots. Its a once a day thing at night. It really helps get that fasting glucose level down in the morning (I was 71 this morning). ..

Those are great numbers, almost all diabetics have ineffective treatment and high A1c. You are golden. I will be trying Lantus, not soon, but for sure. Your paleo diet might raise your LDL a bit, but it reduces the dangerous small LDL, and increases the healthy fluffy LDL.

[gregandbeaker]

Out of all the pharmaceuticals I've been prescribed for diabetes type II, the Lantus has been by far the most effective. I wish my doctor had offered it right away, but I guess many people have stigmas about getting/giving themselves shots. Its a once a day thing at night. It really helps get that fasting glucose level down in the morning (I was 71 this morning). ..

Those are great numbers, almost all diabetics have ineffective treatment and high A1c. You are golden. I will be trying Lantus, not soon, but for sure. Your paleo diet might raise your LDL a bit, but it reduces the dangerous small LDL, and increases the healthy fluffy LDL.

Thanks. The drugs help with the spikes, but the only thing I've found truly effective is what and how much I eat. A very unfortunate revelation for a lover of pizza and beer :-)

[fatboy]

I guess this one is a little screwy with the choices...

Yeah, a little too much work to figure out a valid response.

Thanks. The drugs help with the spikes, but the only thing I've found truly effective is what and how much I eat. A very unfortunate revelation for a lover of pizza and beer :-)

I've found booze and wine (but not beer) to also be quite effective. But I don't need insulin yet (and would be quite leery of mixing them).

I gave up on using metformin because of stomach upset and effects on testosterone, ...

Yup, I'm convinced that metformin coupled with a statin that brought my total cholesterol down to 95 (but HDL was still 62) resulted in hypogonadism. So now I supplement testosterone as well (and DHEA, pregnenolone, melatonin, and D3 ... once you go down the HRT path there's really no turning back).


P.S. 46yo male pre-diabetic/metabolic syndrome on 1500 mg (500 AM, 1000 PM).

Edited by fatboy, 02 July 2009 - 10:34 PM.

[VespeneGas]

I am not currently considering taking metformin because of its testosterone-lowering effects.

[pycnogenol]

I don't take it but I might down the road consider taking the new drug Cycloset. My blood glucose readings lately have been pretty good; I'm in the 94 to 102 range when I test my blood.

May 7, 2009 -- The FDA has approved a new drug, called Cycloset, to improve blood sugar control in adults with type 2 diabetes, in addition to diet and exercise.

Cycloset takes a new approach to treating type 2 diabetes. It boosts levels of a chemical called dopamine, which helps nerve cells communicate.

Cycloset is taken orally in the morning, within two hours of waking, and with food.

It's not clear how Cycloset improves glycemic control in humans. But studies in diabetic animals show that boosting dopamine activity at a particular time of day can "reset" the biological clock to improve metabolism problems related to diabetes, according to VeroScience, the company that developed Cycloset.

In a yearlong trial of 3,070 adults with type 2 diabetes, Cycloset trumped a placebo at improving HbA1c levels, which gauge blood sugar control, over the previous two to three months. In that trial, 39% of patients taking Cycloset met the HbA1c goal, compared to 11% of patients taking the placebo.

In addition, patients taking Cycloset were less likely to have a heart attack or stroke, or to die of heart disease.

During the clinical trial, 24% of the patients in the Cycloset group dropped out of the study, compared to 15% of the patients taking placebo. Gastrointestinal side effects, particularly nausea, were the main reason patients taking Cycloset quit the study.

The most commonly reported adverse events were nausea, fatigue, vomiting, headache, and dizziness. None of those cases was serious, and side effects were more likely to happen when patients first started taking Cycloset.

Cycloset's active ingredient, Bromocriptine Mesylate, isn't a new drug. It's been used in other formulations to treat conditions including Parkinson's disease, usually at higher doses, according to Cycloset's prescribing information.

Edited by pycnogenol, 02 July 2009 - 11:34 PM.

[david ellis]

In a yearlong trial of 3,070 adults with type 2 diabetes, Cycloset trumped a placebo at improving HbA1c levels, which gauge blood sugar control, over the previous two to three months. In that trial, 39% of patients taking Cycloset met the HbA1c goal, compared to 11% of patients taking the placebo.

In addition, patients taking Cycloset were less likely to have a heart attack or stroke, or to die of heart disease.

During the clinical trial, 24% of the patients in the Cycloset group dropped out of the study, compared to 15% of the patients taking placebo. Gastrointestinal side effects, particularly nausea, were the main reason patients taking Cycloset quit the study.

Why not follow gregandbeaker 's lead? He is a diabetic and has excellent Hba1c control probably as good or better than most posters here. His secret is close monitoring of blood glucose, a low-carb paleo diet, and Lantus. Why go for Metformin and Cycloset(both with the serious side effect of nausea) when a very effective treatment, Lantus is also available with a prescription.

[FNC]

My G.P. said that Metformin has the potential to burn out insulin receptors and has a '10 year lifespan' - can anyone validate, analyze or substantiate these claims?

[Gerald W. Gaston]

Why not follow gregandbeaker 's lead? He is a diabetic and has excellent Hba1c control probably as good or better than most posters here. His secret is close monitoring of blood glucose, a low-carb paleo diet, and Lantus. Why go for Metformin and Cycloset(both with the serious side effect of nausea) when a very effective treatment, Lantus is also available with a prescription.

Insulin is often already very elevated for Type IIs... but their insulin resistance is high. So diet, exercise, and even Metformin (if you can take it - I have no stomach upset from it myself) is better if you can make it work. I would always try that first. Insulin is needed but you only want circulating what is needed to do the job. Good numbers for BG, insulin, and TGs are what I am shooting for.

[Gerald W. Gaston]

My G.P. said that Metformin has the potential to burn out insulin receptors and has a '10 year lifespan' - can anyone validate, analyze or substantiate these claims?

Please ask him for references.

Off to search now.

[s123]

I take 210mg in the morning as part of my anti-aging program.

See: http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=36918

[Clarity]

I was taking it a couple years ago for metabolic syndrome/non-typical PCOS. I lasted about 3 mos. because towards the end I was pulling off the side of the road while driving practically passing out. And I also had lactic acidosis type symptoms (though wasn't tested) that lasted for months after stopping. Now looking back it was probably some kind of electrolyte imbalance since I know Met depletes something (potassium is what I'm thinking, but can't remember exactly) & I 'recovered' with a whole food diet. My glucose & health background is a complicated situation so it's not right for me (I have high & low periods & on/off adrenal issues, as well as gut problems & a sluggish liver).

Personally I avoid rx meds at all costs. The liver & kidney are affected by so many prescription drugs, and it sort of defeats the purpose and doesn't get at the root problem. For those that can tolerate the stuff I say go for it if you can't find any other solution. But I would never take an rx as a prophylactic.

Edited by Clarity, 10 January 2010 - 04:21 PM.

[tintinet]

My G.P. said that Metformin has the potential to burn out insulin receptors and has a '10 year lifespan' - can anyone validate, analyze or substantiate these claims?

Ya, right! And Coke sticks to your heart!

[tunt01]

ive read some concern that Metformin (while extending lifespan) could potentiate an acceleration of alzheimer's, as described here:

Antidiabetic drug metformin (GlucophageR) increases biogenesis of Alzheimer's amyloid peptides via up-regulating BACE1 transcription http://www.pnas.org/...106.short?rss=1

and discussed further here:

http://pipeline.cora...imers_worse.php


I actually have become more interested in Resveratrol for its similarity to Metformin (acting upon AMPK), but while having the benefit of improving AB clearance. It's hard to know with certainty about any of these choices, however.

[Gerald W. Gaston]

Prophets, thanks for posting that. Hopefully more research will follow.

Resv, at least in the 200-300mg range that I have tried it, did nothing to lower my BG. Other things I take (and do) can have an effect but thats another topic. Metformin does seems to work a little for me, but nothing drastic. So I am not sure how I will proceed yet, but a few things to note... I do recall reading a few years back that Metformin was found to lower risk of Alzheimer’s even without the addition of exogenous insulin. I'll see if I can find anything to back that up, but a quick Google finds:


http://www.foxnews.c...,203995,00.html

Donald Miller, ScD from Boston University School of Public Health and colleagues report that people with diabetes treated with these medications [TDZs -yeah like the ones implicated in raising heart attack risks] had lower rates of Alzheimer’s disease than counterparts taking insulin. In fact, there were almost 20% fewer new cases of Alzheimer’s among people taking thiazolidinediones compared with people who took insulin. Similar results were found in a separate comparison between thiazolidinediones users and people starting Glucophage, another drug used to treat diabetes.

So not exactly what I'm looking for, but if that is true, AND if the summation from the authors of the study you posted are also correct....

http://www.pnas.org/...106.short?rss=1

Although insulin and metformin display opposing effects on Aβ generation, in combined use, metformin enhances insulin's effect in reducing Aβ levels. Our findings suggest a potentially harmful consequence of this widely prescribed antidiabetic drug when used as a monotherapy in elderly diabetic patients.

http://www.medscape....warticle/589647

The upregulation of beta-amyloid generation by metformin in animal models of AD occurred at steady-state plasma levels at and even below those reported in diabetic patients.

Metformin is an insulin-sensitizing drug, and the researchers found that giving it together with insulin added to insulin's known ability to reduce beta-amyloid generation.

"Our data suggest that the potentially deleterious effects of metformin to AD patients may be avoided by using it in combination with insulin; the combination may result in a beneficial effect in treating both type 2 [diabetes mellitus] and in mitigating AD progression," the researchers write.

AD expert Michal S. Beeri, MD, from the Mount Sinai School of Medicine, in New York, told Medscape Psychiatry, "The report by Chen is very interesting and consistent with a study from our group showing that brains of diabetics who, when alive, received combination therapy (ie, insulin plus an insulin sensitizer) had 80% less neuritic plaques (1 of the hallmark lesions of AD).

Then it would seem likely/possible to me that if you already have higher levels of endogenous insulin due to insulin resistance, common in type II diabetes, then the risk could be mitigated or at least lowered.

I have slightly elevated fasting insulin, and I'm taking Metformin to lower BG and for the possible cancer risk reduction (which is indeed elevated given my age, previous live style, and family history). Others, like gregandbeaker, that are using it with insulin injections, and perhaps those that know their ApoE ε4 allele status, might also find it worth the risk for now until more is known. Without any of those factors, and normal to low insulin, I likely would just drop it until more is known.


Edit: formatting

Edited by frankbuzin, 21 February 2010 - 07:35 AM.

[gregandbeaker]

I have slightly elevated fasting insulin, and I'm taking Metformin to lower BG and for the possible cancer risk reduction (which is indeed elevated given my age, previous live style, and family history). Others, like gregandbeaker, that are using it with insulin injections, and perhaps those that know their ApoE ε4 allele status, might also find it worth the risk for now until more is known. Without any of those factors, and normal to low insulin, I likely would just drop it until more is known.

Full disclosure: I was off the lantus last July, and haven't taken metformin since december. My last A1C (feb) was 5.0 so I'm doing OK. I do take 250mg of Resveratrol daily so that may be helping.

[1kgcoffee]

24 year old male, seriously considering metformin for life extension purposes.

It's a bit of a gamble.. I could get many of the benefits of CR, without looking like a skeleton. There's the possibility of hypogonadism, but my T has always been relatively high, so it's an acceptable risk.

Does 850mg sound like a good dose (162lbs), or should I try for higher?

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 23 February 2010 - 03:19 PM.

[tintinet]

24 year old male, seriously considering metformin for life extension purposes.

It's a bit of a gamble.. I could get many of the benefits of CR, without looking like a skeleton. There's the possibility of hypogonadism, but my T has always been relatively high, so it's an acceptable risk.

Does 850mg sound like a good dose (162lbs), or should I try for higher?

I think it's prudent to start low, perhaps 250 mg, once a day to see how you tolerate it, then ramp up to a final dose of 500 mg to 1,500 mg/day, depending upon your tolerance and response to it.

[tunt01]

thx for that post, frank. something for me to ponder. my fasting blood glucose is slightly elevated (comes out at 100-110) and i may have to do something at some point.

[s123]

24 year old male, seriously considering metformin for life extension purposes.

It's a bit of a gamble.. I could get many of the benefits of CR, without looking like a skeleton. There's the possibility of hypogonadism, but my T has always been relatively high, so it's an acceptable risk.

Does 850mg sound like a good dose (162lbs), or should I try for higher?

I think it's prudent to start low, perhaps 250 mg, once a day to see how you tolerate it, then ramp up to a final dose of 500 mg to 1,500 mg/day, depending upon your tolerance and response to it.

Yes, you should start low and the first days (2 to 3) you will experience diarrhea. I take 210 mg in the morning. 1,500 mg is, I think, too high. I would not go above 850 mg (425 mg 2X a day).

[Dmitri]

I don't take it since I don't have any illness and don't see why anyone who's healthy and young would want to take it. Besides, it's a drug designed to treat certain illnesses what ethical doctor would prescribe it to their patients?

[tintinet]

I don't take it since I don't have any illness and don't see why anyone who's healthy and young would want to take it. Besides, it's a drug designed to treat certain illnesses what ethical doctor would prescribe it to their patients?

While I'm not necessarily advocating its use, I can understand "off label" prescription of metformin for long health benefits. We all suffer from the "illness" of aging. If metformin is believed to possibly help treat aging, it could be ethically prescribed. It has a very low risk profile.

[oasis]

I'm 34 and was a heavy smoker for 14 years, so I guess should I consider long-term metformin use to lower lung cancer risk, right? I mean, in the foreseeable future I'm much more likely to get lung cancer than Alzheimer.

Am I oversimplifying too much? TIA for any pointers.

Edited by oasis, 05 September 2010 - 10:32 AM.

[albedo]

Taking 250 mg mostly in the evening.

[cuprous]

Not to threadjack but does nobody consider berberine as a candidate in this objective?  It's supposedly as effective as metformin in lowering blood sugar.