20 replies to this topic

[stephen_b]

I've been looking into bone broths lately, the new copy of Nourishing Traditions that I got for Father's day in hand.

So far I have made a bone broth only one time. I got some lamb bones from Whole Foods and put it a slow cooker set to low in the morning. Late in the afternoon I strained the mix, kept the broth, and let it set in the fridge, where it gelled.

I'm sure I could have improved it. For example, skimming the broth for the first couple of hours is said to make it taste much better. (See the "Broth is Beautiful" article by Sally Fallon.) Added vegetables improve the meat broth, and vinegar (finally, a use for that apple cider vinegar) extracts minerals like calcium, magnesium, and phosphorus.

There are a few questions that I hope to find answers to:

• Like lamb does, the broth had a strong flavor. Has anyone made other kinds of broth, and are their tastes distinctive?
• These bones were uncooked. Broth can also be made from cooked bones too (like from a leftover turkey carcass). Are cooked bones simmered for a shorter length of time than raw? About how much less?
• Now that I have my bone stock, how can it be used in recipes?

StephenB

[gregandbeaker]

I:

• Like lamb does, the broth had a strong flavor. Has anyone made other kinds of broth, and are their tastes distinctive?
  
• Now that I have my bone stock, how can it be used in recipes?

StephenB

Have you ever tried the Vietnamese soup called "Pho" or "Pho Ba"? Its a delicious concoction that finds most of its flavor in the broth. Here is a basic recipe. Traditionally you'd throw in some thinly sliced raw meat, noodles, cilantro, and bean sprouts into the hot broth and call it lunch. Its delicious just as broth though.

5 pounds beef knuckle, with meat
2 pounds beef oxtail
1 white (daikon) radish, sliced
2 onions, chopped
2 ounces whole star anise pods
1/2 cinnamon stick
2 whole cloves
1 teaspoon black peppercorns
1 slice fresh ginger root
1 tablespoon white sugar
1 tablespoon salt
1 tablespoon fish sauce

[pizzatheorem]

If you like cooking, you would be doing yourself a disservice not to look in to veal stock. It can be time consuming to make, but the result is well worth it. The stock is velvety, rich and neutral tasting which makes it perfect as a base for sauces and soups. You get a richer stock by roasting the bones first.
When I make veal stock, I usually reduce it very slowly to minimize volatilizing the yummy aromatic compounds. What I am left with is called a demi-glace and is pretty much the cornerstone of French sauce making. It is a very thick, luscious stock reduction. After you refrigerate it, it is as hard as a hockey puck, to give you an idea of how thick this stuff is. I use a variant on the recipe of Thomas Keller which takes one day instead of two.
I like to make sauces consisting of herbs, butter, demi-glace and maybe a little cognac or wine. I then slather that over a roasted chicken. Not totally healthy, but I only do this rarely. Another fine use for veal stock is as a braising liquid for veggies or meat as a healthy alternative to browning.

[pizzatheorem]

Another much simpler stock I do is with a bag of chicken bones purchased from a poultry butcher for a dollar. Roast the bones at 400F for 45 minutes. Drop them into a stock pot with a chopped onion, a large carrot, a rib of celery and a bouquet garni. Simmer and skim for four hours. Fridge overnight then skim the fat. Reduce it to the desired consistency. I make soups and braise with the stock obtained. It is so much nicer than the store bought garbage and there's no superfluous salt.

[Lufega]

I've been interested in soups for a long time. I don't make bone broth before hand, I just boil the bone with the meats at the same time. I want to make a little more effort and extract the goodness from the bones.

Are you still making this? Any tips?

This article has great info. on broth. It's very detailed.

http://www.townsendl...5/broth0205.htm

[stephen_b]

Are you still making this? Any tips?

Yes I am. I basically follow the Sally Fallon's method. I use a slow cooker on low for convenience. I wish there were a way to glean dietary information from the resulting gelatin, like mineral and vitamin K content, but I'd imagine that there would be lots of variation. One might be able to eliminate a lot of supplementation this way.

[Sillewater]

Yea, I am curious as to what the nutritional profile of my bone broths are too. I make some a couple of times a week and I have no idea how to put that into cron-o-meter.

[Lufega]

These two pages have some info. on bone broth. The second link is a longer read and is more of a scientific evaluation of broth. Good stuff..

http://www.jadeinsti...th-building.php

http://www.townsendl...5/broth0205.htm

[e Volution]

I haven't actually even made a bone broth yet, however it is definitely on the to do list (just so many things above it!).

Anyway just came across this link today from Mark's Daily Apple: How To Make Beef Broth And Use It Well.

[erzebet]

i use broths instead of water when making soups or when making rice.

i almost finished reading "nourishing traditions" and I love that book! it makes so much sense and it helped me get more nutrients for the buck
did anyone try chutneys or soaking grains before using them?

[jessicantique]

the bones I buy always has some meat attached with it. my concerned it that will there be trans fat or other bad things in the broth after long hours of heat from the meat?
i am using low temperature , but my impression is that meat cooked for long hour is bad? AGE?

[e Volution]

the bones I buy always has some meat attached with it. my concerned it that will there be trans fat or other bad things in the broth after long hours of heat from the meat?
i am using low temperature , but my impression is that meat cooked for long hour is bad? AGE?

I think the fact that the medium is water (thus ensuring the process never goes over 100C) is AGE minimising, but I am interested to see more knowledgeable opinions.

[stephen_b]

the bones I buy always has some meat attached with it. my concerned it that will there be trans fat

Transfats result from a specific industrial process called hydrogenation. If you are not bubbling hydrogen through your bone broth, I don't think you need to worry about that.

AGEs can be greatly reduced with low temperature cooking, and bone broths are made at low temperatures.

Edited by stephen_b, 25 March 2010 - 09:10 PM.

[Lufega]

AGEs can be greatly reduced with low temperature cooking, and bone broths are made at low temperatures.

Also, you can skip baking or browning your bones to reduce AGEs.

[full_circle]

no question bone broths is healthy food but take into consideration that heavy metals accumulate in bones, especially lead (for this reason, i myself no longer eat bone broths).

[stephen_b]

I can't rule it out, but I would find it very surprising if organically raised cattle have a lot of lead in their bone marrow. Where would it come from?

[full_circle]

i personally don't buy "organically grown" label. it does not mean it is free of heavy metals and after all come on.. how "organic" can it be with all kinds of man-made environmental hazards all around us? but don't get me wrong, if i were in 20's i would eat bone broths.

Edited by full_circle, 27 March 2010 - 03:06 AM.

[yoyo]

I would be surprised if industrial animals lived long enough to accumulate anything.

[Skötkonung]

i personally don't buy "organically grown" label. it does not mean it is free of heavy metals and after all come on.. how "organic" can it be with all kinds of man-made environmental hazards all around us? but don't get me wrong, if i were in 20's i would eat bone broths.

According to this article in the British Veterinary Journal, animals must be repeatedly exposed to high levels of heavy metal for it to appear in their marrow:

Study: Effects of exposure to excessive quantities of lead on animals

Organic beef is typically grass-fed, pastured to slaughter. The grass and feed must be free of pesticides and other industrial pollutants. The meat must also be tested for impurities and the handling is strictly monitored. I highly doubt that organic beef or bone marrow will have significant heavy metal toxicity.

If you have any questions, you can view the USDA website for a list of the protocols required for producing organic beef:
http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/Organic/

[jessicantique]

i read somewhere that heavy metals tend to stick to fibers and do not dissolve well in water?

vegetables and herbs also contain heavy metals.

do heavy metals dissolve in water well? so the heavy metals stick to the bone instead of dissolve in the soup?

[e Volution]

Mark's Daily Apple: Bone Marrow: Delicious, Nutritious and Underappreciated. Includes recipe.

Also: Fatty Acid Composition and Energy Density of Foods Available to African Hominids (PDF)

African ruminant marrow: (courtesy of Dr. Loren Cordain)
100 grams of the stuff contain 488 calories, 51 grams of fat (mostly monounsaturated, as I understand), and 7 grams of protein