36 replies to this topic

[health_nutty]

I'm going to start taking this after every meal:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19630216

Apple cider vinegar attenuates lipid profile in normal and diabetic rats.

Shishehbor F, Mansoori A, Sarkaki AR, Jalali MT, Latifi SM.

Department of Nutrition, Para-Medical School, Ahvaz Jundishapour University of Medical Sciences, Ahvaz, Islamic Republic of Iran.

In this study, the effect of apple cider vinegar on Fasting Blood Glucose (FBG), glycated haemoglobin (HbA1c) and lipid profile in normal and diabetic rats was investigated. Diabetes was induced in male Wistar rats (300+/-30 g) by the intraperitoneal injection of streptozotocin (60 mg kg(-1) of body weight). Both normal and diabetic animals were fed with standard animal food containing apple cider vinegar (6% w/w) for 4 weeks. Fasting blood glucose did not change, while HbA1c significantly decreased by apple cider vinegar in diabetic group (p<0.05). In normal rats fed with vinegar, significant reduction of low density lipoprotein-cholesterol (LDL-c) (p<0.005) and significant increase of high density lipoprotein-cholesterol (HDL-c) levels (p<0.005) were observed. Apple cider vinegar also reduced serum triglyceride (TG) levels (p<0.005) and increased HDL-c (p<0.005) in diabetic animals. These results indicate that apple cider vinegar improved the serum lipid profile in normal and diabetic rats by decreasing serum TG, LDL-c and increasing serum HDL-c and may be of great value in managing the diabetic complications.

[tintinet]

Not before?

[adamh]

I take the dry tablet form of vinegar. I wonder if that's as good as drinking the liquid form? I just can't stomach drinking vinegar

[health_nutty]

Not before?

I could drink it either way. Do you think it matters?

[niner]

The rats got it mixed with their food, so they were consuming it whenever they ate. What I'd like to know is what is responsible for this? Is it just the acetic acid, or is there something from the apples? Would white vinegar work?

[health_nutty]

The rats got it mixed with their food, so they were consuming it whenever they ate. What I'd like to know is what is responsible for this? Is it just the acetic acid, or is there something from the apples? Would white vinegar work?

That is a very good question. Could be polyphenols from apples, or acetic acid, or even malic acid. I did read an article that suggested it was the acetic acid, but I think I might as well just use what was in the study since it tastes the best anyway.

[tintinet]

I used to drink/eat a lot of vinegar with meals (salad dressing or just diluted in water for drinking), but I think it really took a toll on my tooth enamel.

[hyper_ventriloquism]

I've been drinking two tablespoons apple cider vinegar with half a teaspoon sodium bicarbonate mixed into six ounces water after meals if I get heartburn. It works great. After learning about the kidney protection that sodium bicarbonate provides and this potentially great news about cider vinegar, I think I'll start taking the heartburn mix at least twice a day, if I have heartburn or not. Also, the sodium bicarbonate brings the pH of the solution to around 7, so no worries about tooth enamel. I'd just recommend to mix the solution until the bicarbonate is completely dissolved, and to watch dietary sodium intake a bit closer.

[wolfeye]

I use ACV in my sallad, rice and rye-bread. It goes everywhere.

[Logan]

Evidently you need to consume raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar to receive the full health benefits. The color of the vinegar should not be white but instead a yellowish brown color. This is supposed to be a good brand.

http://www.google.co...nL062zYDjooKvFw

Edited by morganator, 02 December 2009 - 05:09 AM.

[meat250]

same stuff i drink and drink it regularly with high carb means, or when i get the munchies at night! alot of great health benefits. make sure to the the AVC that contains the mother, which are the floaty chunks!!! lemon juice and pickles also have the same carb-quenching effects also

Meat

[harris13.3]

I take the dry tablet form of vinegar. I wonder if that's as good as drinking the liquid form? I just can't stomach drinking vinegar

I didn't know it was possible to have vinegar in tablet form!

I tried drinking both white and apple cider vinegar before but I found it stings the throat really bad.

[health_nutty]

I take the dry tablet form of vinegar. I wonder if that's as good as drinking the liquid form? I just can't stomach drinking vinegar

I didn't know it was possible to have vinegar in tablet form!

I tried drinking both white and apple cider vinegar before but I found it stings the throat really bad.

You won't get much vinegar from the pills. You are supposed to dillute 1 tablespoon in 8oz of water. If it still stings try 1-2 teaspoons.

[adamh]

You won't get much vinegar from the pills. You are supposed to dillute 1 tablespoon in 8oz of water. If it still stings try 1-2 teaspoons.

I was surprised too that they could put vinegar in a pill. But when I smell the pills they smell strongly of vinegar. They will burn your nose it's so strong. I don't know how they make it in a solid form.

I do know that vinegar will dissolve your tooth enamel and diluting it does not stop that from happening.

[Logan]

You won't get much vinegar from the pills. You are supposed to dillute 1 tablespoon in 8oz of water. If it still stings try 1-2 teaspoons.

I was surprised too that they could put vinegar in a pill. But when I smell the pills they smell strongly of vinegar. They will burn your nose it's so strong. I don't know how they make it in a solid form.

I do know that vinegar will dissolve your tooth enamel and diluting it does not stop that from happening.

Drinking through a straw will though. So eating salad with balsamic vinegar on a regular basis is a bad idea? I think my enamel is long gone anyway

[adamh]

Figure that if the solution is in contact with your teeth for 30 seconds each day, that's about 3 hours a year. Would you want a solution of acid in your mouth for 3 solid hours? I'm sure it would have an effect. Using a straw might help but some will move around in the mouth unless you have a tube going down your throat, lol.

I have no idea how they make the vinegar into solid form. It just says apple cider vinegar tablets sold by puritans pride. Taking a tablet eliminates the however many hours a year of acid on your teeth. Even a microscopic pit will provide a haven for bacteria to stick and do it's thing. BTW, xylitol is good for preventing tooth decay.

[niner]

Teeth are living things and they do regenerate to some degree, as long as you don't wear away the enamel. I think you can get away with some acid exposure, although less would be better and the best thing of all would be to rinse your mouth with water, or even better, something mildly alkaline, after the vinegar.

[tintinet]

I used to "eat" a lot of vinegar, until my teeth really started to become sensitive.

[hyper_ventriloquism]

Teeth are living things and they do regenerate to some degree, as long as you don't wear away the enamel. I think you can get away with some acid exposure, although less would be better and the best thing of all would be to rinse your mouth with water, or even better, something mildly alkaline, after the vinegar.

Like I said above, I put 2 tablespoons of ACV in 6-8 oz water with .5 teaspoons of sodium bicarbonate. pH was ~7 last time I checked...fine for tooth enamel, extra benefits of sodium bicarbonate, and it's a tasty beverage.

[harris13.3]

Hmm... OK but does sodium acetate confer the same benefits as acetic acid?

[Jackie]

Hmm... OK but does sodium acetate confer the same benefits as acetic acid?

The beneficial content of ACV is not affected according to the following site: http://earthclinic.c...soda_cures.html

[tintinet]

I'd like to see results of an actual clinical study before I believe 7.0 PH ACV plus baking soda works the same as ACV straight. Your link appears to reference a post on a blog like site.

Edited by tintinet, 12 January 2010 - 01:07 PM.

[maxwatt]

I'd like to see results of an actual clinical study before I believe 7.0 PH ACV plus baking soda works the same as ACV straight. You link appears to reference a post on a blog like site.

The effect of apple cider vinegar may be due to apple polyphenols in the vinegar, not the acetic and malic acid.

[tintinet]

I'd like to see results of an actual clinical study before I believe 7.0 PH ACV plus baking soda works the same as ACV straight. You link appears to reference a post on a blog like site.

The effect of apple cider vinegar may be due to apple polyphenols in the vinegar, not the acetic and malic acid.

Maybe so. Anyone tried to test this theory?

[chrono]

I'd like to see results of an actual clinical study before I believe 7.0 PH ACV plus baking soda works the same as ACV straight. Your link appears to reference a post on a blog like site.

There was a loong thread at M&M debating whether acetic acid and an acetate would have the same effect. The thread concluded that they would be equivalent because of the way acids behave in solution. But this study does not bear out that prediction:

Effect of neutralized and native vinegar on blood glucose and acetate responses to a mixed meal in healthy subjects
Brighenti F, Castellani G, Benini L, Casiraghi MC, Leopardi E, Crovetti R, Testolin G.
DiSTAM (Dipartimento di Scienze e Tecnologie Alimentari e Microbiologiche), University of Milan

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the influence of sodium acetate and acetic acid from vinegar on blood glucose and acetate response to a mixed meal in healthy subjects. DESIGN: Five healthy subjects consumed in random order six test meals consisting of 100 g of sliced lettuce dressed with olive oil (Blank), olive oil plus 1 g acetic acid in the form of vinegar (AcOH), or olive oil plus sodium acetate in the form of vinegar neutralized to pH 6.0 with sodium bicarbonate (AcNa). On three occasions test meals were followed by a challenge consisting of 50 g carbohydrate portions of white bread (Bread). Glucose and acetate concentrations were measured in arterialized capillary blood before and until 95 min after the meals. Ultrasonography was performed in four other subjects to measure gastric emptying times after AcOH + Bread and AcNa + Bread. RESULTS: Blood acetate response over 95 min was markedly reduced after AcOH and AcOH+Bread meals compared to AcNa and AcNa + Bread. Similarly, the glucose response was depressed by 31.4% (P = 0.0228) after AcOH+Bread with respect to AcNa + Bread and Blank + Bread. No difference was observed between gastric emptying times after AcOH + Bread and AcNa + Bread. CONCLUSIONS: The results suggest that oral acetic acid and acetate might have a different effect on acetataemia and that a limited dose of vinegar, in the form of salad dressing, is sufficient to influence significantly the glycaemic response to a mixed meal in normal subjects by a mechanism related to acidity but not to gastric emptying.

PMID: 7796781 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

There's a chance that the difference only applies to this particular effect, but if they should behave the same in solution, then it seems like there's a good chance it applies to all cases.

So drinking through a straw and swishing/brushing might be a better idea than bicarb if you're concerned about teeth. And add honey to taste; ACV improves insulin sensitivity anyway!

Edited by chrono, 16 July 2010 - 11:36 AM.

[CobaltThoriumG]

So that study would also suggest that the active component is the acetic acid and not polyphenols? Are my rough calculations correct that 4 teaspoons (20mL) of vinegar contains 1g of acetic acid? How often would a person take this dose?

[chrono]

Just about. Check out this post for some exact calculations of acetic acid content and dosage recommendations with regard to insulin sensitivity.

I've only been researching for a day, but I'm almost certain AA accounts for pretty much all of the effects. For every benefit of ACV, I think I've seen at least one similar paper for acetic acid or plain vinegar. Which isn't to say that the polyphenols/malic acid/whatever else isn't active or nutritionally valuable, but I don't think it's a significant contributor to what we're interested in.

[chrono]

^^ Sorry for the unreferenced explanation; I was sleep deprived. Since it was brought up a couple of times in this thread, here are a few papers showing benefits from acetic acid or vinegar by themselves:

• The lifespan-promoting effect of acetic acid and Reishi polysaccharide.
• Vinegar improves insulin sensitivity to a high-carbohydrate meal in subjects with insulin resistance or type 2 diabetes.
• Vinegar supplementation lowers glucose and insulin responses and increases satiety after a bread meal in healthy subjects.
• Vinegar: medicinal uses and antiglycemic effect
• Acetic acid activates hepatic AMPK and reduces hyperglycemia in diabetic KK-A(y) mice.
• Dietary acetic acid reduces serum cholesterol and triacylglycerols in rats fed a cholesterol-rich diet.
• Acetic acid upregulates the expression of genes for fatty acid oxidation enzymes in liver to suppress body fat accumulation.
• Vinegar and peanut products as complementary foods to reduce postprandial glycemia.
• Vinegar dressing and cold storage of potatoes lowers postprandial glycaemic and insulinaemic responses in healthy subjects.
• Delayed gastric emptying rate may explain improved glycaemia in healthy subjects to a starchy meal with added vinegar.
• Effect of acetic acid feeding on the circadian changes in glycogen and metabolites of glucose and lipid in liver and skeletal muscle of rats.
• Acetate and propionate short chain fatty acids stimulate adipogenesis via GPCR43.
• The efficacy of acetic acid for glycogen repletion in rat skeletal muscle after exercise.
• Acetic acid feeding enhances glycogen repletion in liver and skeletal muscle of rats.
• Effect of acetate on glycogen replenishment in liver and skeletal muscles after exhaustive swimming in rats.
• Differential regulation of glucose and glycogen metabolism in vascular smooth muscle by exogenous substrates.
• Antihypertensive effects of acetic acid and vinegar on spontaneously hypertensive rats.
• A red wine vinegar beverage can inhibit the renin-angiotensin system: experimental evidence in vivo.

I'd be interested in knowing what additional benefits ACV has beyond this.

[adamh]

What is in those vinegar pills? They smell strongly of vinegar but the label does not say they are acetate. I just wonder how they made it into a solid?

[chrono]

What is in those vinegar pills? They smell strongly of vinegar but the label does not say they are acetate. I just wonder how they made it into a solid?

That's a good question, which I haven't found a good answer to yet. Acetic acid is a solid up to 62ºF, which is below standard room temp. Are the pills tablets or capsules? If caps, are they full of powder or a resin?

This might be an important question. Some people seem to consider an acetate salt to be equivalent to the acetic acid, but the study above demonstrates this to be untrue (post #25).

There seems to be a lot of bulk powderized vinegar around for pretty cheap. Does anyone know how this is made?