[rcmastermind]

I just finished reading Gary Taubes' book "Good Calories, Bad Calories". The book goes into great detail trying to pinpoint the exact cause of obesity. The author concludes that the body's response to eating carbohydrates (insulin production) is the culprit for excess weight gain. It is a very interesting read that really goes into exhausting details on the whole process. With all the information that he provides it is hard to argue that the glucose/insulin response isn't the determining factor for weight gain/loss.

I know many people here have reported weight loss when taking resveratrol, but have not seen an explanation of why this would be true. The consensus seems to be that resveratrol can cause you to drop some pounds (fat pounds specifically from most reports), but nobody is really sure what the mechanism for this is.

I know that it is currently being tested for as a diabetes treatment, and has been getting very positive results.

It would seem that if resveratrol can help regulate blood sugar and insulin in diabetics, and blood sugar and insulin are the primary culprits of fat accumulation; then resveratrol would help facilitate weight loss because it helps keep these factors in check. This would seem to fit the slow, steady, loss of fat that people taking resveratrol on these forums have reported.

This was just the first thing that came to mind after finishing the book. Does this make sense to anyone else here?

[drmz]

rcmastermind, on Nov 19 2009, 07:07 PM, said:

I just finished reading Gary Taubes' book "Good Calories, Bad Calories". The book goes into great detail trying to pinpoint the exact cause of obesity. The author concludes that the body's response to eating carbohydrates (insulin production) is the culprit for excess weight gain. It is a very interesting read that really goes into exhausting details on the whole process. With all the information that he provides it is hard to argue that the glucose/insulin response isn't the determining factor for weight gain/loss.

I know many people here have reported weight loss when taking resveratrol, but have not seen an explanation of why this would be true. The consensus seems to be that resveratrol can cause you to drop some pounds (fat pounds specifically from most reports), but nobody is really sure what the mechanism for this is.

I know that it is currently being tested for as a diabetes treatment, and has been getting very positive results.

It would seem that if resveratrol can help regulate blood sugar and insulin in diabetics, and blood sugar and insulin are the primary culprits of fat accumulation; then resveratrol would help facilitate weight loss because it helps keep these factors in check. This would seem to fit the slow, steady, loss of fat that people taking resveratrol on these forums have reported.

This was just the first thing that came to mind after finishing the book. Does this make sense to anyone else here?

Nice ad ;-) What reports or concensus are you talking about? Any links?

Resveratrol weight loss and human gives me exactly 0 pubmed hits

From Sinclairs Res Fact book:

""
To make matters worse, bloggers, many of whom were truly not aware of the real facts about resveratrol,
continued to spread false or misleading claims about resveratrol products and their anti-aging and weight loss powers.
Some websites have given the impression that Oprah, Dr. Oz, Barbara Walters and one of the authors of this book, Dr.
Sinclair, endorse resveratrol products. This is not the case.
""

This post has been edited by drmz: 19 November 2009 - 06:47 PM

[JLL]

Maybe it suppresses hunger? Green tea and capsaicin, for example, do just this. Although, green tea also increases insulin sensitivity.

[Blue]

Resveratrol is a potent inhibitor of α-glucosidase activity. So is produces an effect similar to that from acarbose which looks to be a very good drug for type II diabetes. The reduction in postprandial glucose seen in the only clinical human study on reseveratrol may not unlikely be explained by this effect. Acarbose also produces on average a small weight loss. In some this effect will be greater. Partly this is likely due to complex carbohydrates not being broken down in the small intestine. Partly it may be due to reduced insulin and similar agents if the need for such ones are reduced.
http://pubs.acs.org/...021/jf052436%2B
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9376887

This post has been edited by Blue: 19 November 2009 - 06:58 PM

[rcmastermind]

Haha, apparently you can't mention anything on a forum without people thinking you're trying to spam.

I guess consensus wasn't the right word to use, but I have noticed a lot of members of this forum reporting that they have lost weight while on resveratrol.

This is a recent thread where two members (bixbyte and 2tender) both mentioned this:

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&...st&p=360841

I'm not aware of any studies that have been done about weight loss and resveratrol, but it seems to be a common benefit that has been mentioned (and one that I have experienced myself). I haven't seen anyone give a good answer to why this might be true, and this theory seemed to fit, so I thought I would mention it.

[drmz]

rcmastermind, on Nov 19 2009, 08:00 PM, said:

Haha, apparently you can't mention anything on a forum without people thinking you're trying to spam.

I guess consensus wasn't the right word to use, but I have noticed a lot of members of this forum reporting that they have lost weight while on resveratrol.

This is a recent thread where two members (bixbyte and 2tender) both mentioned this:

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&...st&p=360841

I'm not aware of any studies that have been done about weight loss and resveratrol, but it seems to be a common benefit that has been mentioned (and one that I have experienced myself). I haven't seen anyone give a good answer to why this might be true, and this theory seemed to fit, so I thought I would mention it.

Sorry for my reaction. But when i read consensus, alot of reports, resveratrol and weight loss i trigger. I'm a careful reader of this forum and i get the impression that there is alot of trolling going on around here lately. So excuse me if you have a genuine question

The study above mentions a 0.46 +/- 0.28 kg weight loss over a 1 year period. Not something one will notice i guess. What i notive myself is that i sport more when i pick up my supplement "regime". That could be an explanation as well. I also think that there would have been already more studies out there if there was a connection between weight loss and resveratrol. It would be big $$ if there was one. There is offcourse room enough for speculation.

This post has been edited by drmz: 19 November 2009 - 07:19 PM

[Blue]

drmz, on Nov 19 2009, 03:12 PM, said:

The study above mentions a 0.46 +/- 0.28 kg weight loss over a 1 year period. Not something one will notice i guess.

That is the average for acarbose. Obviously some will have a greater number. Note that if such an effect continues year after year the final effect will large. Especially compared to the "normal" weight gain seen with age.

This post has been edited by Blue: 19 November 2009 - 07:19 PM

[drmz]

Blue, on Nov 19 2009, 08:18 PM, said:

drmz, on Nov 19 2009, 03:12 PM, said:

The study above mentions a 0.46 +/- 0.28 kg weight loss over a 1 year period. Not something one will notice i guess.

That is the average for acarbose. Obviously some will have a greater number. Note that if such an effect continues year after year the final effect will large. Especially compared to the "normal" weight gain seen with age.

Yes i understand that this is the average. I don't know what the biggest weight loss was (can't download the full study at the moment) but even if it was 1kg it would take you 10 years to get 10kg off. There are better ways and less expensive ways to get 10kg of then wait for 10 years i guess.

This post has been edited by drmz: 19 November 2009 - 07:22 PM

[Blue]

drmz, on Nov 19 2009, 03:22 PM, said:

Blue, on Nov 19 2009, 08:18 PM, said:

drmz, on Nov 19 2009, 03:12 PM, said:

The study above mentions a 0.46 +/- 0.28 kg weight loss over a 1 year period. Not something one will notice i guess.

That is the average for acarbose. Obviously some will have a greater number. Note that if such an effect continues year after year the final effect will large. Especially compared to the "normal" weight gain seen with age.

Yes i understand that this is the average. I don't know what the biggest weight loss was (can't download the full study at the moment) but even if it was 1kg it would take you 10 years to get 10kg off. Better ways to get 10kg of then wait for 10 years i guess.

Just pointing out that this effect may well explain the possible weight loss seen in some who take resveratrol. This weight loss cannot be a common noticeable effect seen it is rarely reported.

[drmz]

Blue, on Nov 19 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

drmz, on Nov 19 2009, 03:22 PM, said:

Blue, on Nov 19 2009, 08:18 PM, said:

drmz, on Nov 19 2009, 03:12 PM, said:

The study above mentions a 0.46 +/- 0.28 kg weight loss over a 1 year period. Not something one will notice i guess.

That is the average for acarbose. Obviously some will have a greater number. Note that if such an effect continues year after year the final effect will large. Especially compared to the "normal" weight gain seen with age.

Yes i understand that this is the average. I don't know what the biggest weight loss was (can't download the full study at the moment) but even if it was 1kg it would take you 10 years to get 10kg off. Better ways to get 10kg of then wait for 10 years i guess.

Just pointing out that this effect may well explain the possible weight loss seen in some who take resveratrol. This weight loss cannot be a common noticeable effect seen it is rarely reported.

Could be. But it's a long period. Alot of things happen in one year which can alter your weight. I just read (i did not know that before) that the average typical american (whatever that means) gains two pounds each year. Maybe some can balance that out with res. Is there an age when yearly weight loss start to occur?

[madbrad]

Increased testosterone and lowered estrogen levels makes the body burn fat faster and it retains less fluid. Bodybuilders tweek these levels just before a comp. If Resveratrol is an aromatase inhibitor it could be causing weight loss by keeping test. up and est. down. Maybe...

[madbrad]

Also, Maxwatt mentioned an increase in mitochondrial size. I'm guessing these little power-houses are going to be sucking more caloric energy than normal.

I'm starting to think that the increased testosterone theory might only be a tiny bit of the story. Almost everyone I speak to says that an increase in testosterone levels = an increase in appetite. I haven't had that happen at all. If anything, on resveratrol I'm eating less. I haven't read it from others either.
Hhhmmm.

[2tender]

madbrad, on Nov 20 2009, 12:28 AM, said:

Also, Maxwatt mentioned an increase in mitochondrial size. I'm guessing these little power-houses are going to be sucking more caloric energy than normal.

I'm starting to think that the increased testosterone theory might only be a tiny bit of the story. Almost everyone I speak to says that an increase in testosterone levels = an increase in appetite. I haven't had that happen at all. If anything, on resveratrol I'm eating less. I haven't read it from others either.
Hhhmmm.

Agreed,there is more to it. I lost approx. 20 lbs of fat, mostly on gut and buttocks. My arms did shrink a bit, but the strength remained, Ive met very few men that lift weights to get smaller so I was a bit disconcerted to have my "Yoke" diminish in the least. Resveratrol does blunt appetite. I started a period of gradual weight poundage increases, along with an 18 mg daily dose of precursor, weight has gone up 15 lbs in 3 weeks, this has coincided with the addition of 250 mgs Quercetin to my daily 250 mg plus dose of Resveratrol. My Yoke is back and my pants still fit. Stamina is good, joints are okay, adding a modest 5 lbs to every lift on a weekly basis. Im not eating over maintenence, but I am drinking more water. Im sure the Quercetin I purchased from my Resveratrol supplier (its in a Licap also) has enhanced it (the Resveratrol) If you think that Resveratrol alone is helping you with muscle, try adding the pre-emulsified MCT Quercetin Licap to your Resveratrol dose and tell me what you think!

[drmz]

2tender, on Nov 20 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

madbrad, on Nov 20 2009, 12:28 AM, said:

Also, Maxwatt mentioned an increase in mitochondrial size. I'm guessing these little power-houses are going to be sucking more caloric energy than normal.

I'm starting to think that the increased testosterone theory might only be a tiny bit of the story. Almost everyone I speak to says that an increase in testosterone levels = an increase in appetite. I haven't had that happen at all. If anything, on resveratrol I'm eating less. I haven't read it from others either.
Hhhmmm.

Agreed,there is more to it. I lost approx. 20 lbs of fat, mostly on gut and buttocks. My arms did shrink a bit, but the strength remained, Ive met very few men that lift weights to get smaller so I was a bit disconcerted to have my "Yoke" diminish in the least. Resveratrol does blunt appetite. I started a period of gradual weight poundage increases, along with an 18 mg daily dose of precursor, weight has gone up 15 lbs in 3 weeks, this has coincided with the addition of 250 mgs Quercetin to my daily 250 mg plus dose of Resveratrol. My Yoke is back and my pants still fit. Stamina is good, joints are okay, adding a modest 5 lbs to every lift on a weekly basis. Im not eating over maintenence, but I am drinking more water. Im sure the Quercetin I purchased from my Resveratrol supplier (its in a Licap also) has enhanced it (the Resveratrol) If you think that Resveratrol alone is helping you with muscle, try adding the pre-emulsified MCT Quercetin Licap to your Resveratrol dose and tell me what you think!

I'm going to test the resveratrol/quercetin combo. Maybe bench press would be a good indicator since i'm on a plateau between 253 lbs - 264 lbs for almost two years now. I stopped with quercetin (500mg) because it really fucked up my joints.(mostly my knees) Problem with this kind of try outs that the improved focus will surely ad an extra x % to the bench press. My training regime is on a technogym stick so the training regim is rather fixed and currently it's not aimed at strenght gains (nor is my food intake)
I'll notify you when i hit the 300

This post has been edited by drmz: 20 November 2009 - 11:39 AM

[maxwatt]

drmz, on Nov 20 2009, 06:38 AM, said:

2tender, on Nov 20 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

madbrad, on Nov 20 2009, 12:28 AM, said:

Also, Maxwatt mentioned an increase in mitochondrial size. I'm guessing these little power-houses are going to be sucking more caloric energy than normal.

I'm starting to think that the increased testosterone theory might only be a tiny bit of the story. Almost everyone I speak to says that an increase in testosterone levels = an increase in appetite. I haven't had that happen at all. If anything, on resveratrol I'm eating less. I haven't read it from others either.
Hhhmmm.

Agreed,there is more to it. I lost approx. 20 lbs of fat, mostly on gut and buttocks. My arms did shrink a bit, but the strength remained, Ive met very few men that lift weights to get smaller so I was a bit disconcerted to have my "Yoke" diminish in the least. Resveratrol does blunt appetite. I started a period of gradual weight poundage increases, along with an 18 mg daily dose of precursor, weight has gone up 15 lbs in 3 weeks, this has coincided with the addition of 250 mgs Quercetin to my daily 250 mg plus dose of Resveratrol. My Yoke is back and my pants still fit. Stamina is good, joints are okay, adding a modest 5 lbs to every lift on a weekly basis. Im not eating over maintenence, but I am drinking more water. Im sure the Quercetin I purchased from my Resveratrol supplier (its in a Licap also) has enhanced it (the Resveratrol) If you think that Resveratrol alone is helping you with muscle, try adding the pre-emulsified MCT Quercetin Licap to your Resveratrol dose and tell me what you think!

I'm going to test the resveratrol/quercetin combo. Maybe bench press would be a good indicator since i'm on a plateau between 253 lbs - 264 lbs for almost two years now. I stopped with quercetin (500mg) because it really fucked up my joints.(mostly my knees) Problem with this kind of try outs that the improved focus will surely ad an extra x % to the bench press. My training regime is on a technogym stick so the training regim is rather fixed and currently it's not aimed at strenght gains (nor is my food intake)
I'll notify you when i hit the 300

Caution advised. The combo messed up my joints for a while. Quercetin seems to give quite variable results in my observation of different people. There are contradictory studies regarding its effects. There was an overview of this in The New York Times: Phys Ed: Is Quercetin Really a Wonder Sports Supplement?

It may be that genetic differences influence the effects, or as I've surmised from another thread here with on mice with resveratrol, motivation may make a difference in how hard one trains, or how hard the mice run, and hence in the effects.

[drmz]

I have read this one as well. Doesn't look promissing for Quercetin.(1) This, together with the joint pain, was my reason to stop it (500 mg Quercetin). I started to use if because of "Quercetin increases brain and muscle mitochondrial biogenesis and exercise tolerance"(2. mouse study) and "Effects of Quercetin and EGCG on Mitochondrial Biogenesis and Immunity"(3) and some quercetin-influenza mouse studies. Let's see if the joint pain returns after a much lower dose then 500 mg. (i dropped EGCG together with Quercetin at the time)

I think it comes down to : “The moral is that you can’t generalize from mouse studies to humans.” Like they mention in the NY-times article. We need a pool of volunteers to test on

1. Dietary quercetin supplementation is not ergogenic in untrained men.
Cureton KJ, Tomporowski PD, Singhal A, Pasley JD, Bigelman KA, Lambourne K, Trilk JL, McCully KK, Arnaud MJ, Zhao Q.

Department of Kinesiology, Ramsey Center, 330 River Road, Univ. of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-6554. kcureton@uga.edu

Quercetin supplementation increases muscle oxidative capacity and endurance in mice, but its ergogenic effect in humans has not been established. Our study investigates the effects of short-duration chronic quercetin supplementation on muscle oxidative capacity; metabolic, perceptual, and neuromuscular determinants of performance in prolonged exercise; and cycling performance in untrained men. Using a double-blind, pretest-posttest control group design, 30 recreationally active, but not endurance-trained, young men were randomly assigned to quercetin and placebo groups. A noninvasive measure of muscle oxidative capacity (phosphocreatine recovery rate using magnetic resonance spectroscopy), peak oxygen uptake (Vo(2peak)), metabolic and perceptual responses to submaximal exercise, work performed on a 10-min maximal-effort cycling test following the submaximal cycling, and voluntary and electrically evoked strength loss following cycling were measured before and after 7-16 days of supplementation with 1 g/day of quercetin in a sports hydration beverage or a placebo beverage. Pretreatment-to-posttreatment changes in phosphocreatine recovery time constant, Vo(2peak,) substrate utilization, and perception of effort during submaximal exercise, total work done during the 10-min maximal effort cycling trial, and voluntary and electrically evoked strength loss were not significantly different (P > 0.05) in the quercetin and placebo groups. Short duration, chronic dietary quercetin supplementation in untrained men does not improve muscle oxidative capacity; metabolic, neuromuscular and perceptual determinants of performance in prolonged exercise; or cycling performance. The null findings indicate that metabolic and physical performance consequences of quercetin supplementation observed in mice should not be generalized to humans.

2. Quercetin increases brain and muscle mitochondrial biogenesis and exercise tolerance.

Quercetin is one of a broad group of natural polyphenolic flavonoid substances that are being investigated for their widespread health benefits. These benefits have generally been ascribed to its combination of antioxidant and anti-inflammatory activity, but recent in vitro evidence suggests that improved mitochondrial biogenesis could play an important role. In addition, the in vivo effects of quercetin on mitochondrial biogenesis exercise tolerance are unknown. We examined the effects of 7 days of quercetin feedings in mice on markers of mitochondrial biogenesis in skeletal muscle and brain, and on endurance exercise tolerance. Mice were randomly assigned to one of the following three treatment groups: placebo, 12.5 mg/kg quercetin, or 25 mg/kg quercetin. Following 7 days of treatment, mice were killed, and soleus muscle and brain were analyzed for mRNA expression of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-gamma coactivator (PGC-1alpha) and sirtuin 1 (SIRT1), and mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and cytochrome c. Additional mice underwent a treadmill performance run to fatigue or were placed in voluntary activity wheel cages, and their voluntary activity (distance, time, and peak speed) was recorded. Quercetin increased mRNA expression of PGC-1alpha and SIRT1 (P < 0.05), mtDNA (P < 0.05) and cytochrome c concentration (P < 0.05). These changes in markers of mitochondrial biogenesis were associated with an increase in both maximal endurance capacity (P < 0.05) and voluntary wheel-running activity (P < 0.05). These benefits of querectin on fitness without exercise training may have important implications for enhancement of athletic and military performance and may also extend to prevention and/or treatment of chronic diseases.

3. Effects of Quercetin and EGCG on Mitochondrial Biogenesis and Immunity

PURPOSE:: To test the influence of 1000 mg of quercetin (Q) with or without 120 mg of epigallocatechin 3-gallate (EGCG), 400 mg of isoquercetin, and 400 mg of eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid (Q-EGCG) on exercise performance, muscle mitochondrial biogenesis, and changes in measures of immunity and inflammation before and after a 3-d period of heavy exertion. METHODS:: Trained cyclists (N = 39) were randomized to placebo (P), Q, or Q-EGCG and ingested supplements in a double-blinded fashion for 2 wk before, during, and 1 wk after a 3-d period in which subjects cycled for 3 h.d at approximately 57% Wmax. Blood, saliva, and muscle biopsy samples were collected before and after 2 wk of supplementation and immediately after the exercise bout on the third day. Blood and saliva samples were also collected 14 h after exercise. RESULTS:: Two-week supplementation resulted in a significant increase in plasma quercetin for Q and Q-EGCG and granulocyte oxidative burst activity (GOBA) in Q-EGCG. Immediately after the third exercise bout, significant decreases for C-reactive protein (CRP), and plasma interleukin 6 (IL-6) and interleukin 10 (IL-10) were measured in Q-EGCG compared with P. Granulocyte colony-stimulating factor and CRP were reduced in Q-EGCG 14 h after exercise. No group differences were measured in muscle messenger RNA expression for peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma coactivator alpha, citrate synthase, or cytochrome c. CONCLUSIONS:: Two-week supplementation with Q-EGCG was effective in augmenting GOBA andin countering inflammation after 3 d of heavy exertion in trained cyclists

This post has been edited by drmz: 20 November 2009 - 01:45 PM

[2tender]

I read that study, and another that produced positive results prior to adding it to my regimen. In my experience, dose and type, brand of supplement can make all the differemce as far as results and sides go. I had tried Quercetin before and gotten sides, after reading about good results and talking to someone on another board, I decided to give it another try. I think the reason why Im not experiencing sides is that this is a new quality supplement that is pre-emulsified, in a Licap and has MCT added at a reasonable dose of 250 mgs. Its been suggested to take equal amounts of Resveratrol and Quercetin, but for now Im taking slightly more Resveratrol. Joints are good. For the price of the MCT Quercetin and the money back offer, I just couldnt go wrong. Im giving it a 2 month trial to see if it will remain in my regimen.

[niner]

drmz, on Nov 20 2009, 01:36 PM, said:

We need a pool of volunteers to test on

We are a pool of volunteers to test on...

[drmz]

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2009 Nov 13.

Quercetin's Influence on Exercise Performance and Muscle Mitochondrial Biogenesis.
Nieman DC, Williams AS, Shanely RA, Jin F, McAnulty SR, Triplett NT, Austin MD, Henson DA.

1Departments of Health, Leisure, and Exercise Science 2Biology; Appalachian State University, Boone, NC 28608 3Human Performance Laboratory, North Carolina Research Campus, Kannapolis, NC 28081.

PURPOSE:: To determine the influence of 2-weeks quercetin (Q) (1000 mg/day) compared to placebo (P) supplementation on exercise performance and skeletal muscle mitochondrial biogenesis in untrained, young adult males (N=26, age 20.2+/-0.4 y, VO2max 46.3+/-1.2 ml.kg.min). METHODS:: Utilizing a randomized, crossover design with a 2-week washout period, subjects provided blood and muscle biopsy samples pre- and post-supplementation periods, and were given 12-minute time trials on 15% graded treadmills following 60-min moderate exercise pre-loads at 60% VO2max. RESULTS:: Plasma quercetin levels rose significantly in Q vs. P during the 2-week supplementation period (interaction P-value<0.001). During the 12-minute trial, the net change in distance achieved was significantly greater during Q (2.9%) compared to P (-1.2%) (29.5+/-11.5 vs. -11.9+/-16.0 m, respectively, P=0.038). Skeletal muscle mRNA expression tended to increase (range of 16% to 25%) during Q vs. P for SIRT1 (interaction effect, P=0.152), PGC-1alpha (P=0.192), cytochrome C oxidase (P=0.081), and citrate synthase (P=0.166). Muscle mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA, relative copy number per diploid nuclear genome) increased 140+/-154 (4.1%) with Q compared to a -225+/-157 (6.0% decrease) with P (P=0.098). CONCLUSIONS:: In summary, 1000 mg/d Q vs. P for two weeks by untrained males was associated with a small but significant improvement in 12-minute treadmill time trial performance, and modest but insignificant increases in the relative copy number of mtDNA and mRNA levels of four genes related to mitochondrial biogenesis

This post has been edited by drmz: 23 November 2009 - 01:31 PM

[Dagon]

I have without doubt noticed weight loss while on Resveratrol. I haven't exercised now for about 8 or 9 months, and I have a super slim washboard stomach and I'm willing to post photos, it actually looks toned. Previously, if I didn't do excercise regularly I would normally put on a little weight around the tummy - Resveratrol seems to have stopped this, and I've become increasingly lazy...! My diet is very healthy though, and it's verging on CRON at times but I'm not into going to extremes so I sometimes indulge in pizza and other white carbs.

Despite this, I really gotta get off my [slim] ass and start doing some excercise again for general wellbeing

This post has been edited by Dagon: 23 November 2009 - 05:03 PM