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Why so much Methylphenidate hate?


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#1 VoidPointer

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 01:38 AM


Alright, there seems to be extreme unwarranted hate for Methylphenidate on this board. So this is a response to those who do not understand the positive risk/reward ratio of MPH.

I mean, it seems that the majority of people on the forums are willing to take relatively untested supplements/medications from other countries, but act as if taking MPH is some extremely risky endeavor.

Now,, lets get started.. first off;

Methylphenidate != Adderall

I keep seeing the two mentioned as if they are equal, they are not! The end result of the medications is similar but the means by which the medications achieve that result is quite different. MPH inhibits re-uptake of dopamine, while amphetamines act directly on the dopamine 'pumping' mechanism.

Methylphenidate is NOT neurotoxic like amphetamines can be, and actually is neuroprotective. They have even started using MPH as a treatment for both Parkinsons patients and for Methamphetamine addicts;


http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2701286/

http://jpet.aspetjou...304/3/1181.full

Also MPH works to improve cognitive skills in adults by many measures( I have more studies than this one if you want to push the issue);

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16035144


Despite being somewhat similar chemically to cocaine and caffeine, MPH is not as addictive. This may be because MPH does not affect synaptic serotonin levels like cocaine, and because of the duration of effect. This is one of the articles that explores the reasons for this difference;

http://neuropsychiat...2/adictive.html

Children/teens who are treated with MPH are less likely to abuse other drugs later in life(this study also addressed the long terms affects of MPH);

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18381904

MPH improves lipid profiles;

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19553406

A Government study which shows that children taking stimulant medication consistently (test) score better than unmedicated peers(This is a important unbiased study that states 'the drugs have been proven safe, with few side effects. Those can include loss of sleep and appetite and, in rare cases, temporary hallucinations and psychosis.'

http://www.reuters.c...20090427?rpc=44

Again a study that shows longer term use does not cause negative effects, and even may improve performance of some;

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18444711

'Findings suggest that the ADHD/Rx group shows better executive and academic functioning even when unmedicated.'

'Methylphenidate-OROS improves attention achievement after the first dose and working memory after one month of daily treatment.';

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18465700

MPH improves driving in adults and teens(3 studies, last of which states that OROS MPH > Adderall);

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18308788

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18200437

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16950962

'Methylphenidate amplifies long-term plasticity in the hippocampus via noradrenergic mechanisms';

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18685149

'The effects of methylphenidate on word decoding accuracy in boys with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder';

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18204348

The positive effect of MPH on balance;

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17572789

Beneficial effects of MPH on audio comprehension;

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17343552

MPH improves reading performance;

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17169593

Long-term stimulant medication treatment of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder: results from a population-based study( 'These results demonstrate that the effectiveness of stimulant medication treatment of ADHD provided throughout childhood is comparable to the efficacy of stimulant treatment demonstrated in clinical trials');

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16511362

OROS MPH > Strattera;

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16418159

Long term study of 'stimulant' medications on IQ;

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15965546



A couple more points;

1) dex-methylphenidate (Focalin) seems to be more effective than MPH in treating inattentive ADD/ADHD, while having fewer side effects.

2) I have nothing against the AMP meds, just feel that MPH is safer long-term.

3) All medications have risks. Asprin,Tylenol, Advil , opiates, sleeping pills and most other classes of medications have killed far more people that MPH(in absolute terms and as a percentage of users). MPH and all stimulants have risk, and some may have died as a indirect or direct result of this medication, but given that 10s of millions of people worldwide having be taking MPH and other stims for 50+ years, I think the safety record is pretty damn good.


Cheers!

#2 VoidPointer

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 01:46 AM

Oh, yeah.. I wanted to emphasize that all of the above studies (most of which are from pubMed) were done on HUMAN subjects. Not rats, zebra fish, monkeys etc.

I wanted to bring that up before the Xenu-loving-red-with-Niacin Scientologists troll here with their 'Ritalin shrinks monkey brains' BS studies.

also,,

'Of the psychostimulants, MPH is the most studied. Of the MPH studies, the majority indicated improvement on some aspect of CPT performance; only five studies indicated no significant improvement. Results of studies using CPTs and psychostimulants are generally positive and suggest that, depending on the drug, the dosage, and the type of CPT used, improvement may be seen in attention, as evidenced by increased correct hits or decreased omission or commission errors. In a majority of studies, reaction time is decreased and less variable with stimulant medication. Additionally, stimulant medications generally resulted in decreased reaction times as well as decreased variability. Notably, research suggests that higher doses of stimulant medication are associated with improved performance only up to an optimal dosage, and then performance begins to decline.107 That these changes in CPT performance reflect differences in CNS functioning is evident in associated changes in event-related potential, such that MPH resulted in increased amplitude of P3 as well as decreased latency of P3 to target stimuli'


and keep in mind that there have been 100's of studies on MPH and only 5 showed 'no significant improvement'. Even if there were only 100 studies (there are actually about 400) that is a damn good ratio.

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#3 bacopa

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 02:07 AM

Assuming these studies are good ones, and I'm guessing there has to be a fair number of very well done studies judging on shear volume of them, how could I get prescribed one of these stimulants? Also I may have a condition, or past one, that would make no credible doc prescribe me this drug.

#4 VoidPointer

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 03:13 AM

Well, you have to have ADD/ADHD. Go to a psychiatrist and get an evaluation. I do not recommend mail order route, keep it legal.

#5 Heisenberg

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 07:09 AM

Thank you for this post. I have been taking ADHD-perscribed ritalin for over a year with very good results. I take a very low dose of 10-15mg per day. However, sometimes I wonder whether ritalin should not be combined with other supplements, as it seems to tax the brain somewhat more than other stimulants. Some people suggest L-Tyrosine, however, my GP does not think it is necessary. Does anybody have any experience with this?

#6 medievil

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 10:40 AM

Informative topic! ;)

#7 TophetLOL

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 12:06 PM

Regarding the Reuters test score improvement article, it conveniently fails to mention that test score improvements were only a .19-.29 year advantage (http://pediatrics.aa...ract/123/5/1273). Considering the fact this was a study that tracked kids for 5 years and given it's large enrollment size such a small improvement does not even come close to a statistical significance, therefore the study further reinforces that ADHD drugs don't work very well at all.

Second, the improvements seen in cognition tests in general are very limiting. First of all those tests can only test for lower order thinking, improvements in lower order thinking do NOT translate into a improvement in high order thinking such as rhetoric and logic. Higher order thinking is what sets the successful apart from the unsuccessful and is a much better indicator of real world improvement.

Third, messing with dopamine is something that should only done with extreme caution. If such a endeavor is taken it is best done with drugs with have a low abuse potential such as selegline.

Forth, there are ethical implications of possessing such an addictive substance. How would you feel if your drugs somehow fell into the hands of a drug addict or a future drug addict? What if the person overdosed on them?

Fifth, although anecdotal of the 4 people that I've talked to who started taking ADHD drugs when they were really young (4-7) they all wish they could have prevented it. They still do take them, but its more so to prevent withdraw side effects because they have built up such high tolerances. Low doses probably do not present many side effects, but those doses will eventually become and higher if one expects to retain the benefits of the drug. At high doses that is when problems can begin to emerge. After all everything has the potential to be poisonous even water, but rather dose is what determines if something is poison.

Edited by TophetLOL, 08 April 2010 - 12:08 PM.

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#8 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 02:50 PM

I arrived at the same conclusion independently, that focalin (dexmethylphenidate) > all other ADD and ADHD drugs if risk/benefit ratio is honestly considered.

Excellent post VoidPointer.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 08 April 2010 - 02:51 PM.


#9 chrono

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 02:14 AM

The end result of the medications is similar but the means by which the medications achieve that result is quite different. MPH inhibits re-uptake of dopamine, while amphetamines act directly on the dopamine 'pumping' mechanism.

To be a little more precise, amphetamine both directly releases NE and DA, and inhibits their reuptake. MPH is only an uptake inhibitor.

I myself take adderall because MPH isn't effective for me (it's somewhat less likely to be for ADD than ADHD). So I have nothing against it, of course. But your post seems to imply that there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Searching pubmed for Methylphenidate/adverse effects yields many hundreds of papers, so I think a more balanced view might admit to the possibility of downsides.


Third, messing with dopamine is something that should only done with extreme caution. If such a endeavor is taken it is best done with drugs with have a low abuse potential such as selegline.

Forth, there are ethical implications of possessing such an addictive substance. How would you feel if your drugs somehow fell into the hands of a drug addict or a future drug addict? What if the person overdosed on them?

Efficacy is probably higher on the list than potential for abuse, if you actual have the kinds of problems these treat. How often do prescriptions "fall into the hands of a drug addict" accidentally? If someone is the kind of person to take the massive quantities of ritalin (or even adderall) necessary to overdose, practically anything in pill form is a concern at that point.

#10 chrono

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 08:22 AM

Also MPH works to improve cognitive skills in adults by many measures( I have more studies than this one if you want to push the issue)

Forgot to say: I don't want to push the issue at all, because I believe this to be true, but I'd be interested in more studies!

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#11 kurdishfella

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Posted 18 April 2022 - 05:43 AM

It burns uses up your brain cells etc faster than you can restore. I wouldnt say hate its such an weak negative emotion.

Edited by kurdishfella, 18 April 2022 - 05:43 AM.





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