44 replies to this topic

[Skötkonung]

Hypervitaminosis D and premature aging: lessons learned from Fgf23 and Klotho mutant mice
"Such in vivo experimental studies indicated that excessive vitamin-D activity and altered mineral-ion homeostasis could accelerate the aging process"

There are quite a few 'related articles' along similar lines.

[Luna]

oi no! that's like the one out of two supplements I decided to use

[bacopa]

so what constitutes excessive? 5000 IU, 10,000, more?

[niner]

Hold on. These are genetic mutant mice that lack either fibroblast growth factor 23 (Fgf23) or klotho (Kl) genes. Not just low expression; those genes are gone. This says little about the effect of vitamin D in healthy humans. We already know that excessive vitamin D is... excessive. This is not a case of "if some's good, more's better, and too much is just right". My advice remains: take enough vitamin D3 to get your 25-OH-D3 level to 50 ng/ml; or moderately higher if you have particular diseases.

[ajnast4r]

http://en.wikipedia....ervitaminosis_D

[Denjin]

That study doesn't mention dosage or blood serum levels (at least in the abstract), so who knows what they mean.

However, another mouse study here http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19444937 mentions:

Calcidiol serum concentrations show a U-shaped risk of prostate cancer suggesting an optimal serum concentration of 40-60 nmol/L for the lowest cancer risk.

But the study doesn't mention the amount that caused the premature aging symptoms.

Also, how does a mouse's vitamin D metabolism differ from our own (plus those ones in the OP's study were freaky mutants ).

Edited by Denjin, 21 April 2010 - 07:32 PM.

[Hedrock]

ToDo:

- balance D3 / K2. K2 will protect you from high calcium levels in your blood.

- Low calcium intake, Stop all calcium supplements (except you're calcium deficient) otherwise this will deposit in your blood vessels!

Too much calcium is bad.

[health_nutty]

ToDo:

- balance D3 / K2. K2 will protect you from high calcium levels in your blood.

- Low calcium intake, Stop all calcium supplements (except you're calcium deficient) otherwise this will deposit in your blood vessels!

Too much calcium is bad.

Where is the evidence to support this?
Low calcium can cause high blood pressure (it was one of the factors in my moderately high blood pressure, which is now normal).

[Ironman-Adam]

so what constitutes excessive? 5000 IU, 10,000, more?

Just to clarify - from the Wikipedia article...

"Acute overdose requires between 15,000 µg/d (600,000 IU per day) and 42,000 µg/d (1,680,000 IU per day) over a period of several days to months, with a safe intake level being 250 µg/d (10,000 IU per day)"

And as for the mouse study - I'm sure I'm not the only one to question the validity of engineering mice with specific genetic deficiencies, then ramping up the dose of a particular nutrient until it finally becomes toxic...

So, I'd suggest that a million iu a day and mutant mice don't really add up to what might be considered an imminent risk to human health.

Ridiculous.

Edited by Ironman-Adam, 21 April 2010 - 08:34 PM.

[health_nutty]

ToDo:

- balance D3 / K2. K2 will protect you from high calcium levels in your blood.

- Low calcium intake, Stop all calcium supplements (except you're calcium deficient) otherwise this will deposit in your blood vessels!

Too much calcium is bad.

Where is the evidence to support this?
Low calcium can cause high blood pressure (it was one of the factors in my moderately high blood pressure, which is now normal).

I'll answer my own question:

Another case where too low is bad and too high is bad. I'm wondering if K2 will offset all or most of the negative effects of having calcium
in the high normal range. High blood pressure and brittle bones is bad too...

http://linkinghub.el...021915006004850

Abstract
Background

Elevated serum calcium concentrations are associated with vascular calcification and cardiovascular disease. It is unknown whether there is a relationship between high-normal serum calcium levels and sub-clinical vascular effects. We investigated the association between serum calcium and carotid plaque thickness, a powerful early predictor of clinical coronary and cerebrovascular events.
Methods

Epidemiological study of 1194 subjects from the Northern Manhattan Study cohort, a prospective community-based study designed to investigate risk factors for vascular disease in different race-ethnic groups.
Results

Subjects with carotid plaque had higher corrected serum calcium levels within the normal range than those without carotid plaque (2.21±0.09mmol/L versus 2.19±0.09mmol/L, p<0.002). The relationship between carotid plaque and serum calcium persisted after adjustment for traditional cardiovascular risk factors. Subjects in the top quintile of maximal carotid plaque thickness (≥1.7mm) were more likely to be in the highest quintile of serum calcium level (OR=1.64, 95% CI=1.17–2.29, p<0.004). The interaction of age and corrected serum calcium was the most significant predictor of carotid plaque thickness when traditional vascular risk factors were considered (p<0.001).
Conclusions

Serum calcium levels in a multi-ethnic population of older men and women were positively associated with carotid plaque thickness, a powerful early predictor of clinical coronary and cerebrovascular events.

[health_nutty]

To answer myself again, probably:

http://www.doctorozw...cification.html

K2 MK-4 (and perhaps other menaquinones like MK-7) may turn out to be an effective treatment for arterial calcification and cardiovascular disease in general. It’s extremely effective at preventing osteoporosis-related fractures in humans. That’s a highly significant fact. Osteoporosis and arterial calcification often come hand-in-hand. Thus, they are not a result of insufficient or excessive calcium, but of a failure to use the available calcium effectively. In the warfarin-treated rats described above, the serum (blood) calcium concentration was the same in all groups. Osteoporosis and arterial calcification are two sides of the same coin, and the fact that one can be addressed with K2 MK-4 means that the other may be as well.

[Hedrock]

Where is the evidence to support this?
Low calcium can cause high blood pressure (it was one of the factors in my moderately high blood pressure, which is now normal).

I have a low calcium level in the normal range. My blood pressure is normal (120/80). I avoid food high in calcium and would never take any calcium supplement.

The point is: If you take D3/K2 your calcium metabolism is optimal. So you won't need so much calcium with food. D3 highens the intake of calcium 100 fold.

The normal man who does not supplement D3/K2 would have calcium deficiency. But if someone takes D3/K2, how is it possible he could have calcium deficiency? Never heared of one case.

The right way is to stop rich calcium foods. D3 is important in combination with vitamin K2.

But D3 + Calcium (without K2) would be a deadly cocktail!

Calcium is one of the most pro-aging supplements if high. I have seen many people taking D3 + calcium supplements and dying weeks later of heart attack,

We call the process of calcium aging "Calcification". Ever heared of this?

Calcium is found in alzheimer
Calcium is found in arterial plaques ("Coronary artery calcification" (CAC))
Calcium is found in degenerated soft tissues
Calcium is found in kidney stones
Calcium is found in bladder stones
,,,,
Most bad tissue changes have lots of what? Calcium! Yeah, calcificate yourself!


I could give you thousands of articels but it is so obvious! You only have to push the google button.


Give me evidence that high calcium will lengthen your life!

Calcification - the aging factor

Edited by Hedrock, 21 April 2010 - 09:32 PM.

[Hedrock]

I'll answer my own question:

Thank you for doing this! I found too many articels so that it is difficult to choose exactly one!

Another case where too low is bad and too high is bad. I'm wondering if K2 will offset all or most of the negative effects of having calcium
in the high normal range.

D3 + K2 is optimal in the recommended dose.

But calcium has to be low (within the normal range) to my opinion. Otherwise you will have very thick bones on the long run. K2 inhibits the osteoclast: PMID 11855740

D3 + K2 + low calcium is the best way to go.

Edited by Hedrock, 21 April 2010 - 09:43 PM.

[nerve seed]

Hypervitaminosis D and premature aging: lessons learned from Fgf23 and Klotho mutant mice
"Such in vivo experimental studies indicated that excessive vitamin-D activity and altered mineral-ion homeostasis could accelerate the aging process"

There are quite a few 'related articles' along similar lines.

Well, I'm from the valley of the sun (Arizona) and so what we have here is a question of trade-offs: pre-mature skin aging from intense UV light or succumbing to osteoporosis (Asian, light-weight females are predisposed to this) from lack of a combination of calcium and Vitamin D, the latter required for optimal absorption of calcium. I already have to refrain from "excessive vitamin-D activity" by avoiding long periods of exposure to the sun, especially without sufficient SPF worn, due to medication rendering me more photo-sensitive resulting in skin darkening spots. Frankly, I'd rather opt for not losing bone and avoiding fracture risk and doing whatever I can reasonably can to enjoy life and avoid getting skin cancer than quit taking Vitamin-D.....already better than taking Fosamax indefinitely.

[Hedrock]

Well the article does not say too much vitamine D would accelerate aging.

The article says, the

vitamin-D activity and altered mineral-ion homeostasis

does!

The mineral is calcium.

So the article only says too much Vitamin D + too much calcium is bad!

Vitamin D alone cannot accelerate aging.

[health_nutty]

I'll answer my own question:

Thank you for doing this! I found too many articels so that it is difficult to choose exactly one!

Another case where too low is bad and too high is bad. I'm wondering if K2 will offset all or most of the negative effects of having calcium
in the high normal range.

D3 + K2 is optimal in the recommended dose.

But calcium has to be low (within the normal range) to my opinion. Otherwise you will have very thick bones on the long run. K2 inhibits the osteoclast: PMID 11855740

D3 + K2 + low calcium is the best way to go.

I'll have to read the studies this article references to see if I come to the same conclusions:

http://www.lef.org/m...2005_atd_01.htm

Q: I’ve read that arterial calcification means that you have abnormal plaque and hardening of the arteries. If I take a calcium supplement to prevent osteoporosis, will this lead to plaque in my arteries?
A: You are absolutely correct that arterial calcification can signify hidden atherosclerotic plaque in the carotid or coronary arteries, or any artery for that matter. Calcium consistently makes up 20% of the volume of atherosclerotic plaque that leads to heart attack and stroke. This is the rationale, for instance, behind CT heart scanning as an easy method for detecting hidden coronary plaque. In other words, measuring arterial calcification is an accurate way to gauge total plaque in the heart’s arteries.1

It is well established that calcium supplementation modestly reduces risk for osteoporosis and fracture.2 But does your calcium supplement end up adding to calcified plaque in your arteries? No, it does not. In fact, the opposite is true: people with arterial calcification tend to have less calcium in bones, and are therefore at risk for osteopenia (low bone mass) and osteoporosis. Conversely, people with less arterial calcification tend to have more calcium in their bones.3–5

The disconnect between arterial and bone calcium occurs because arterial calcification requires an active process within plaque that is not subject to blood levels of calcium, except in extreme situations like kidney failure. Calcium metabolism in bone tissue is an active process that responds to various hormones, local bone processes, and blood levels of calcium. Arterial calcium and bone calcium therefore operate independently and with separate control systems.6

There is evidence to suggest that healthy calcium metabolism may actually reduce the risk of heart disease, though the mechanism of action remains unknown. A UCLA team of investigators has documented that the higher your vitamin D blood level (a major determinant of calcium metabolism), the less coronary plaque as measured by CT heart scanning.7 A fascinating analysis conducted by a British research team demonstrated that the farther away from the equator you live (and thus are exposed to less sunlight that activates vitamin D in the skin), the more likely you are to suffer a heart attack.8

You can take calcium without worrying about whether you’re contributing to heart attack or stroke risk. In fact, by combining your calcium supplement with vitamin D, you may lower your risk for developing coronary or carotid plaque. Men are advised to take a daily calcium supplement of 800-1000 mg along with 1000 IU of vitamin D; women are advised to take 1000-1200 mg per day of calcium along with 1000 IU of vitamin D. Although the RDA for vitamin D is only 400 IU, people in northern climates or those not exposed to plentiful sunshine (30 minutes a day) require greater quantities for full health benefits. This combination provides protection from osteoporosis and may contribute to lessening the development of arterial calcification.

Dr. William Davis is an author, lecturer, and practicing cardiologist focusing on coronary disease regression. He is the author of Track Your Plaque: The only heart disease prevention program that shows you how to use the new heart scans to detect, track, and control coronary plaque. He can be contacted at www.trackyourplaque.com.
References

1. Sangiorgi G, Rumberger JA, Severson A, et al. Arterial calcification and not lumen stenosis is highly correlated with atherosclerotic plaque burden in humans: a histologic study of 723 coronary artery segments using nondecalcifying methodology. J Am Coll Cardiol. 1998 Jan;31(1):126-33.

2. Kaplan B, Hirsch M. Current approach to fracture prevention in postmenopausal osteoporosis. Clin Exp Obstet Gynecol. 2004;31(4):251-5.

3. Barengolts EI, Berman M, Kukreja SC, Kouznetsova T, Lin C, Chomka EV. Osteoporosis and coronary atherosclerosis in asymptomatic postmenopausal women. Calcif Tissue Int. 1998 Mar;62(3):209-13.

4. Holick MF. Vitamin D: importance in the prevention of cancers, type 1 diabetes, heart disease, and osteoporosis. Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Mar;79(3):362-71.

5. Tanko LB, Bagger YZ, Christiansen C. Low bone mineral density in the hip as a marker of advanced atherosclerosis in elderly women. Calcif Tissue Int. 2003 Jul;73(1):15-20.

6. Doherty TM, Asotra K, Fitzpatrick LA, et al. Calcification in atherosclerosis: bone biology and chronic inflammation at the arterial crossroads. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA. 2003 Sep 30;100(20):11201-6.

7. Watson KE, Abrolat ML, Malone LL, et al. Active serum vitamin D levels are inversely correlated with coronary calcification. Circulation. 1997 Sep 16;96(6):1755-60.

8. Grimes DS, Hindle E, Dyer T. Sunlight, cholesterol and coronary heart disease. QJM. 1996 Aug;89(8):579-89.

[Cameron]

Unless k2+D3+low calcium is enough to reverse the natural decline, due to aging, that eventually leads to osteoporosis, at least moderate calcium intake should be recommended.

[Hedrock]

Why this recommendation?

I have asked myself this question all the time since nearly 15 years.

If nearly any kind of diet has lots of calcium and the cause for osteoporosis is vitamin-D-deficiency (and K2-deficiency!), why should we recommend calcium?

We should recommend vitamin D (+K2) instead.

You can't escape the calcium, it is everywhere. Even in the water! Have a look into your water boiler and have an inspiration.

[shadowhawk]

I'll answer my own question:

Thank you for doing this! I found too many articels so that it is difficult to choose exactly one!

Another case where too low is bad and too high is bad. I'm wondering if K2 will offset all or most of the negative effects of having calcium
in the high normal range.

D3 + K2 is optimal in the recommended dose.

But calcium has to be low (within the normal range) to my opinion. Otherwise you will have very thick bones on the long run. K2 inhibits the osteoclast: PMID 11855740

D3 + K2 + low calcium is the best way to go.

I'll have to read the studies this article references to see if I come to the same conclusions:

http://www.lef.org/m...2005_atd_01.htm

Q: I've read that arterial calcification means that you have abnormal plaque and hardening of the arteries. If I take a calcium supplement to prevent osteoporosis, will this lead to plaque in my arteries?
A: You are absolutely correct that arterial calcification can signify hidden atherosclerotic plaque in the carotid or coronary arteries, or any artery for that matter. Calcium consistently makes up 20% of the volume of atherosclerotic plaque that leads to heart attack and stroke. This is the rationale, for instance, behind CT heart scanning as an easy method for detecting hidden coronary plaque. In other words, measuring arterial calcification is an accurate way to gauge total plaque in the heart's arteries.1

It is well established that calcium supplementation modestly reduces risk for osteoporosis and fracture.2 But does your calcium supplement end up adding to calcified plaque in your arteries? No, it does not. In fact, the opposite is true: people with arterial calcification tend to have less calcium in bones, and are therefore at risk for osteopenia (low bone mass) and osteoporosis. Conversely, people with less arterial calcification tend to have more calcium in their bones.3–5

The disconnect between arterial and bone calcium occurs because arterial calcification requires an active process within plaque that is not subject to blood levels of calcium, except in extreme situations like kidney failure. Calcium metabolism in bone tissue is an active process that responds to various hormones, local bone processes, and blood levels of calcium. Arterial calcium and bone calcium therefore operate independently and with separate control systems.6

There is evidence to suggest that healthy calcium metabolism may actually reduce the risk of heart disease, though the mechanism of action remains unknown. A UCLA team of investigators has documented that the higher your vitamin D blood level (a major determinant of calcium metabolism), the less coronary plaque as measured by CT heart scanning.7 A fascinating analysis conducted by a British research team demonstrated that the farther away from the equator you live (and thus are exposed to less sunlight that activates vitamin D in the skin), the more likely you are to suffer a heart attack.8

You can take calcium without worrying about whether you're contributing to heart attack or stroke risk. In fact, by combining your calcium supplement with vitamin D, you may lower your risk for developing coronary or carotid plaque. Men are advised to take a daily calcium supplement of 800-1000 mg along with 1000 IU of vitamin D; women are advised to take 1000-1200 mg per day of calcium along with 1000 IU of vitamin D. Although the RDA for vitamin D is only 400 IU, people in northern climates or those not exposed to plentiful sunshine (30 minutes a day) require greater quantities for full health benefits. This combination provides protection from osteoporosis and may contribute to lessening the development of arterial calcification.

Dr. William Davis is an author, lecturer, and practicing cardiologist focusing on coronary disease regression. He is the author of Track Your Plaque: The only heart disease prevention program that shows you how to use the new heart scans to detect, track, and control coronary plaque. He can be contacted at www.trackyourplaque.com.
References

1. Sangiorgi G, Rumberger JA, Severson A, et al. Arterial calcification and not lumen stenosis is highly correlated with atherosclerotic plaque burden in humans: a histologic study of 723 coronary artery segments using nondecalcifying methodology. J Am Coll Cardiol. 1998 Jan;31(1):126-33.

2. Kaplan B, Hirsch M. Current approach to fracture prevention in postmenopausal osteoporosis. Clin Exp Obstet Gynecol. 2004;31(4):251-5.

3. Barengolts EI, Berman M, Kukreja SC, Kouznetsova T, Lin C, Chomka EV. Osteoporosis and coronary atherosclerosis in asymptomatic postmenopausal women. Calcif Tissue Int. 1998 Mar;62(3):209-13.

4. Holick MF. Vitamin D: importance in the prevention of cancers, type 1 diabetes, heart disease, and osteoporosis. Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Mar;79(3):362-71.

5. Tanko LB, Bagger YZ, Christiansen C. Low bone mineral density in the hip as a marker of advanced atherosclerosis in elderly women. Calcif Tissue Int. 2003 Jul;73(1):15-20.

6. Doherty TM, Asotra K, Fitzpatrick LA, et al. Calcification in atherosclerosis: bone biology and chronic inflammation at the arterial crossroads. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA. 2003 Sep 30;100(20):11201-6.

7. Watson KE, Abrolat ML, Malone LL, et al. Active serum vitamin D levels are inversely correlated with coronary calcification. Circulation. 1997 Sep 16;96(6):1755-60.

8. Grimes DS, Hindle E, Dyer T. Sunlight, cholesterol and coronary heart disease. QJM. 1996 Aug;89(8):579-89.

Another plaque testing site.

http://plactest.com/

[Cameron]

<br />Why this recommendation?<br /><br />I have asked myself this question all the time since nearly 15 years. <br /><br />If nearly any kind of diet has lots of calcium and the cause for osteoporosis is vitamin-D-deficiency (and K2-deficiency!), why should we recommend calcium?<br /><br />We should recommend vitamin D (+K2) instead.<br /><br />You can't escape the calcium, it is everywhere. Even in the water! Have a look into your water boiler and have an inspiration. <img src="style_emoticons/default/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

There are individuals who drink filtered or distilled water and have controlled calorie diets which may require supplemental calcium intake.

[niner]

You can't escape the calcium, it is everywhere. Even in the water! Have a look into your water boiler and have an inspiration.

Would you be able to distinguish between calcium deposits and magnesium/sulfate deposits? Something tells me no. You are making a pretty extreme recommendation with this no calcium idea of yours. Do you have any clinical data to support it? The average calcium concentration in American tap water is 50.6 ± 29.4 mg/L. (source) A person drinking 2 liters/day would get about 100 mg this way, which is not exactly a calcium overload.

[Jay]

You can't escape the calcium, it is everywhere. Even in the water! Have a look into your water boiler and have an inspiration.

Would you be able to distinguish between calcium deposits and magnesium/sulfate deposits? Something tells me no. You are making a pretty extreme recommendation with this no calcium idea of yours. Do you have any clinical data to support it? The average calcium concentration in American tap water is 50.6 ± 29.4 mg/L. (source) A person drinking 2 liters/day would get about 100 mg this way, which is not exactly a calcium overload.

Cannell at vit D council recently said something similar. He thought that vit d sufficient people do not need to take calcium. Our modern need for calcium always seemed odd to me since I couldn't understand how we could have gotten enough in paleo times... Vit d deficiency provides an answer... Cannell mentioned some lecture that was upcoming on the topic. Did anyone hear anything more on that topic?

[Hedrock]

Would you be able to distinguish between calcium deposits and magnesium/sulfate deposits? Something tells me no. You are making a pretty extreme recommendation with this no calcium idea of yours. Do you have any clinical data to support it? The average calcium concentration in American tap water is 50.6 ± 29.4 mg/L. (source) A person drinking 2 liters/day would get about 100 mg this way, which is not exactly a calcium overload.

Not all the minerals come from water!

They are also in various foods. I agree with you that water alone is not enough!

What I want to say is: It is so difficult to eat a low-calcium-diet - nearly impossible. I drink soy milk instead of milk and soy instead of meat. But the problem is - the soy is enriched in calcium - soy is a calcium bomb. They add calcium in nearly every soy product - so what?

If you have enough vitamin D and K2 you will maybe need 100 - 200 mg calcium/ day to stay in chemical equilibrium Not more. But it is impossible to get less than 1000 mg with our industrial calcium-enriched food. This is not good for us vitamin-D-disciples.

Any problems with vitamin D you read in the press come from higher calcium levels.

Please let me ask you one question: How is calcium excreted from the body?

[Sillewater]

Please let me ask you one question: How is calcium excreted from the body?

Yea I was thinking about this question too. I have some papers on my computer at my friends place. I'll post them later.

[mikeinnaples]

Please let me ask you one question: How is calcium excreted from the body?

Urine and stool

[Hedrock]

Please let me ask you one question: How is calcium excreted from the body?

Urine and stool

Excreting by urine will make some nice stones: kidney-stones; bladder-stones! (calcium-oxalate)

"Excretion by stool" means by gallbladder and could create some gallstones. Pancreas stones are funny too.

Why take in lots of calcium and excrete lots of calcium? This makes no sense to me.

Calcium excretion is a dangerous thing.

Better 200 mg in and 200 mg out, than 1000 mg in and 1000 mg out. In the sum (+/-) it's the same. Less calcium will protect my kidneys,

Edited by Hedrock, 22 April 2010 - 08:59 PM.

[Nootropic Cat]

Am I right in thinking calcium:phosphorus balance is also important, i.e. needs to be >1:1?

Also MR has suggested increasing calcium intake by 'up to 50%' for those on CR.

[niner]

Excreting by urine will make some nice stones: kidney-stones; bladder-stones! (calcium-oxalate)

"Excretion by stool" means by gallbladder and could create some gallstones. Pancreas stones are funny too.

Why take in lots of calcium and excrete lots of calcium? This makes no sense to me.

Calcium excretion is a dangerous thing.

Better 200 mg in and 200 mg out, than 1000 mg in and 1000 mg out. In the sum (+/-) it's the same. Less calcium will protect my kidneys,

Yes, but 1000 mg in and 995 mg out is better than 200 mg in and 220 mg out. You have an interesting hypothesis and I don't want to dismiss it out of hand, but what is the evidence that low calcium consumption is preferred over a conventional dosage?

[Clarity]

Without going into all the details, I had low Vit D stores and was taking increasing amounts of D3 the past year. I also at one point had a transient increase in liver function tests (not related to alcohol but possible gallbladder issues). I also had prior adrenal insufficiency with low glucose & the past year my glucose levels were also increasing above normal. Bottom line is I cut out the D3 last week and my glucose dropped to normal. My adrenals feel much stronger as well and I feel different - healthier than I have in a long time. I don't know if it was because my liver was at one time functioning sub-optimally and D3 was being over-stored (is that possible?). I was only taking about 3000 mg. I noticed also that whenever I ate or took calcium, I had muscle twitching...maybe too much calcium in the system because of the D3. I cut out the calcium and it went away. Thankfully I take K2. Haven't tested because my endoc. takes 3 mos. to get in an appt.

I had added liquid D3, and I tend to absorb things way too much sublingually.

Just thought I'd mention it because more is not always better. Especially if you've got other issues going on.

Incidentally, my Aunt was taken to the ER last year for hypercalcemia. They never found the underlying cause, but she cut out the Vit D/calcium supplements. She was in REALLY bad shape and it can become serious.

I totally agree with PP that D3 (within reasonable doses) + K2 + low calcium is the most ideal combo.

[Sillewater]

Am J Epidemiol. 2010 Apr 1;171(7):801-7. Epub 2010 Feb 19.
Dietary calcium and magnesium intake and mortality: a prospective study of men.
Kaluza J, Orsini N, Levitan EB, Brzozowska A, Roszkowski W, Wolk A.Division of Nutritional Epidemiology, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden.

Eur J Clin Nutr. 2010 Apr;64(4):400-9. Epub 2010 Mar 3.
Association between dietary calcium and vitamin D intake and cervical carcinogenesis among Japanese women.
Hosono S, Matsuo K, Kajiyama H, Hirose K, Suzuki T, Kawase T, Kidokoro K, Nakanishi T, Hamajima N, Kikkawa F, Tajima K, Tanaka H.

Effects of calcium supplementation on lipids, blood pressure, and body composition in healthy older men: a randomized controlled trial
Ian R Reid, Ruth Ames, Barbara Mason, Mark J Bolland, Catherine J Bacon, Helen E Reid, Campbell Kyle, Gregory D Gamble, Andrew Grey and Anne Horne
From the Department of Medicine, Faculty of Medical and Health Sciences, University of Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand

I'm suspicious of epidemiological studies showing Calcium benefits because of this study:
J Epidemiol. 2010;20 Suppl 3:S549-56.
Calcium intake and associated factors in a general Japanese population: baseline data of NIPPON DATA80/90 and the National Nutrition Survey.
Higashiguchi M, Onoda T, Turin TC, Sakata K; NIPPON DATA80/90 Research Group.Department of Hygiene and Preventive Medicine, Iwate Medical University, Morioka, Japan.

Effects of Supplemental Vitamin D and Calcium on Oxidative DNA Damage Marker in Normal Colorectal Mucosa: A Randomized Clinical Trial
Veronika Fedirko1,3, Roberd M. Bostick1,3, Qi Long2,3, W. Dana Flanders1,2,3, Marjorie L. McCullough4, Eduard Sidelnikov1,3, Carrie R. Daniel6, Robin E. Rutherford5 and Aasma Shaukat7

Does Calcium Supplementation Increase Cardiovascular Risk?Ian R Reid MD, Mark J Bolland PhD and Andrew Grey MD Department of Medicine, Faculty of Medical and Health Sciences, University of Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand

Clin J Am Soc Nephrol. 2010 Jan;5 Suppl 1:S41-7.
Effects of calcium on cardiovascular events in patients with kidney disease and in a healthy population.
West SL, Swan VJ, Jamal SA.Multidisciplinary Osteoporosis Program, Women's College Hospital, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. sarah.west@utoronto.ca