37 replies to this topic

[Boba155]

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, I wasn't sure if this should go in skin/hair.

Anyway, if you trek over to Melanotan.org, you can find a thread discussing the use of diacylglycerols to increase melanin production, specifically it's water-soluble analog, 1-oleoyl-2-acetylglycerol. While studies have shown that it increased melanin production by a huge percentage in cells, the studies were performed in vitro, and thus, the research by the members of Melanotan.org sputtered out. However, I have BELIEVED I have found a study stating that diacylgycerols increase melanin production in vivo, wherein this study they tested it upon guinea pig skin. Here's the study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/7594645.

The diacylglycerols are believed to increase melanin production through the C-Kinase protein pathway.

This presents a big possibility: could diacylglycerols be used for increasing melanin in HUMAN skin and hair, thereby affecting a darkened ("tan") skin tone and a darker hair color? This seems like a better alternative to Melanotan due to it's ability to be applied topically/transdermally (once again, not sure if it will work on human skin) and it's extreme cheapness (for instance, diacylglycerol vegetable oil is like 8$ per bottle).

Any opinions on this? Or am I way off base/this has already been disproven before?

Heres even a patent on the use of these diacylglycerols to promote a tan/dark hair/increased melanin, just look at the last few paragraphs of the study: http://www.wipo.int/...53&DISPLAY=DESC

Heres another: http://www.patentsto...escription.html

Any opinions? Thoughts?

Edited by Boba155, 07 November 2010 - 08:10 PM.

[nowayout]

How about reversing graying hair?

[Boba155]

Viveu, to be totally honest, I have no idea if it will work for gray hair. While it promotes a huge increase (I believe one studies showed an increase of 484%, let me see if I can find it) in melanin, I was under the impression that grey hair was the result of DEAD melanocytes? But perhaps it will, only time/experimentation will tell.

[winston]

Other elements play a part in hair color such as iron. It might not restore your hair color accurately, but I suppose it would still be an improvement.

[cherrysilver]

Take a look at this more recent patent (7/2010) regarding the use of Hesperidin Methyl Chalcone (HMC) (a hesperitin derivative found in citrus fruits) and Sclareolide (from clary sage) as cosmetic actives for hair/skin darkening.

http://www.freepaten...10/0183527.html

Both are available from Sigma Aldrich:

http://www.sigmaaldr...RAND_KEY&F=SPEC

http://www.sigmaaldr...RAND_KEY&F=SPEC

[cherrysilver]

If you read thru the patent, at the end you will see that there was an increase in melanogenesis. For HMC there was 381 melanin level at a .03 dosage (std error +/- 16) and for .001 Sclareolide dose a 286 level (+/- 83 error). It went on to say that both actives work synergistically with the other as opposed to alone.

Best part was that they published formulas for skin creams and hair topicals at the end, along with suppliers they obtained ingredients from!

[Boba155]

If you read thru the patent, at the end you will see that there was an increase in melanogenesis. For HMC there was 381 melanin level at a .03 dosage (std error +/- 16) and for .001 Sclareolide dose a 286 level (+/- 83 error). It went on to say that both actives work synergistically with the other as opposed to alone.

Best part was that they published formulas for skin creams and hair topicals at the end, along with suppliers they obtained ingredients from!

Cherry you've stunned me. I infact read that very study, but since I saw it had DHA in it, I dismissed it as another stupid orange fake tanner. I never thought to read through and realize that this was so more. A 400% melanin increase and it's only 50 bucks for 5 grams! That's on the level of alpha-MSH, which is about 50,000$ for 5 grams accompanying it's 450% increase.

However, as it usually is in life, there may be a catch. Are these substances carcinogenic or are they harmful to the human body is the question we must ask now.

If these substances are safe, this could be huge.

Holy hell. 400%...

[cherrysilver]

No, Boba, if you read thru all the way to the end of the patent, in the results section it actually states that "the results demonstrated that the compounds have increased the rate of melanin synthesis in melanocytes, without cell toxicity.". In addition, the authors of the patent work for Cognis, a European cosmeceutical company. They make some of the items (emollients, surfactants, etc.) listed in the formulations at the end, NOT the actives. Cognis definitely has new products in the pipeline!

You probably could make your own home-brew, but I'd just make sure that the concentration of the active is okay and that the pH is correct. There's a hair lotion recipe which calls for a handful of ingredients (actives, ethanol, citric acid, deionized water & preservative) that would be very easy to make. I may even make my own body lotion!

[Boba155]

I guess all that is left to do is to try it. Anyone know where I can buy cheap Ethanol?

Also, cherry, I was slightly concerned about it's in-vivo usage. When I read the patent, I THOUGHT it said Ray they had only tested it on cell culture. As we have all seen, many compounds increase melanogenesis in cell culture, but fail to produce results on live skin, due to the molecules size restraining it from penetrating the dermis. Did I miss some in-vivo experiment with this? It seems odd that a company would create something like this without testing if it worked on humans, so I have my hopes!

[niner]

I guess all that is left to do is to try it. Anyone know where I can buy cheap Ethanol?

Also, cherry, I was slightly concerned about it's in-vivo usage. When I read the patent, I THOUGHT it said Ray they had only tested it on cell culture. As we have all seen, many compounds increase melanogenesis in cell culture, but fail to produce results on live skin, due to the molecules size restraining it from penetrating the dermis. Did I miss some in-vivo experiment with this? It seems odd that a company would create something like this without testing if it worked on humans, so I have my hopes!

You could use Everclear, if it's legal in your state. It's 95.5% ethanol. I can't get it in Pennsylvania, but I can drive across the river to New Jersey and find it in random sleazy liquor stores. Places like Sigma tend to only sell to established institutions. Fortunately, HMC seems to be all over the place as a dietary supplement. Sclareolide has a few suppliers, like IFF (Intl. Flavors & Fragrances) and a couple others. Keep us posted if you try this out.

[Stefanovic]

very interesting. Has anyone already experimented with this? My natural color is ginger and I would like to have it darker. Any thoughts on how frequently it should be used to get and maintain results? exposure time?

[Stefanovic]

any updates on this? It's too interesting

[curious_sle]

any updates on this? It's too interesting

yes please updates. please :-)

I am very interested too... even doing it homegrown :-). Anyone care to write up a step-by-step guide and where to get ingredients? ( or PM it)

[Boba155]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't updated, been researching a few other projects.

Anyway, I have been chatting with some members of melanotan.org and they believe this will work. They think that the fake tannic agent is just in the formula to placate the user until the real tan comes in, due to the public being very impatient.

I'll probably be formulating a blend up relatively soon, just need to make sure this is safe (I.e. Not carcinogenic, vitiligo, etc) and also getting the ingredients.

And no worries to the grey haired/light haired folks out there, I WILL be making a hair paste blend to see if my hair goes dark (blonde naturally) on this.

I'll keep you guys posted!

Also, I will be going with the sclareolide + H.M.C formula, diaglycerols are attracting some eat due to a suspected carcigenocity.

P.S. Incase you want to try this on your own, the study about sclareolide and H.M.C actually cotains the formula/instructions to make your own hair paste and skin tanner.

[Stefanovic]

hey boba, that's great.
will you try it on both hair and skin ( it's a different formula I guess)

My hair is naturally ginger red

Edited by Stefanovic, 22 November 2010 - 11:19 AM.

[michael0505]

I copied the following from the link provided earlier in this thread. Is this something that a compounding pharmacist might/would help make? Also, wouldn't it get on the skin/hairline making that darker as well?

Hair Lotion


Ingredient [INCI] % by weight


Ethanol 18.20
Elestab ® 50J (1) [Chlorphensin and 0.30
Methylparaben]
Hesperidin methylchalcone 0.50
Sclareolide 0.05
Citric Acid 10% qsf pH 5.5
Deionized water add up to 100

[Boba155]

Hey guys,

I've been researching for quite a while, and it doesn't really seem like these have any adverse side affects/carcinogenic chemicals, so I think I might start a trial quite soon.

I'm looking for a sclareolide supplier. Anyone got one?

I will probably do a spot test (I really don't know if this is systemic vs. local), one on my arm for skin tone and one on my facial hair for hair color.

It's a pity that there are no in-vivo tests for this. I guess it's up to us.

Ill keep you guys posted!

P.S. I got the ethanol, so thats one obstacle out of the way.

[Boba155]

However it is a bit discerning about HMC. I have found that HMC is a common ingedient in many anti-wrinkle eye creams. I am worried that users would have noticed the tanning effect. Hopefully there is some explanation for why they did not.

[Stefanovic]

yes probably

[cherrysilver]

I'm looking for a sclareolide supplier. Anyone got one?

Hey boba,

If you ready my earlier post where I found the patent identifying the HMC and sclareolide actives, you'd see that I put the link to Sigma Aldrich at the bottom. Here it is:

http://www.sigmaaldr...RAND_KEY&F=SPEC

[Boba155]

Cherry, Sigma Aldrich and IFF only sell to actual companies.

I'm sadly starting to highly doubt this will work. HMC has been used in beauty products for many years; someone would have noticed this effect.

[Stefanovic]

It's probably dose depending or about penetration. I wonder if there's a way to contact patent owners. I know they almost never reply their emails.

PS: in the patent I read it's commercially available which means that there should be companies selling it to private persons.

Edited by Stefanovic, 08 December 2010 - 12:43 PM.

[cherrysilver]

Cherry, Sigma Aldrich and IFF only sell to actual companies.

This has never stopped me in the past from successfully procuring actives from suppliers.

[Stefanovic]

Thank you. Looks like you're not the kind of person who gives up easily, cherry. So do you suggest to negotiate with them or to find another supplier?

PS: the fact that HMC has been used in beauty products for many years must be something a company knows when I see the patent is very recent. So there must be an explanation, don't you think? Would like to know what it is of course.

Edited by Stefanovic, 09 December 2010 - 11:07 AM.

[Stefanovic]

PS in herbal medicine sage has been reported to darken hair, although I never paid attention to it because I thought it was more something from the henna family ( darkening existing hair and not the new growth) but probably the combo with penetration enhancers and hmc will do the job?

[Boba155]

Going to begin an HMC trial in about a week, will run it for 2 weeks, I'll keep you guys posted although I'm doubtful this will be successful.

[Stefanovic]

Hey Boba,

I wish you the best of luck. Will you do the HMC/ Scaleroide combo? As you might have read in my previous post, the fact that scaleroide is actually clary sage which has been used to darken hair in herbal medicine should be something hopeful.

[Boba155]

Cherry,

You mentioned to me that Sigma Aldrich only selling to real companies "has never stopped you before".

What did you mean by this? Were you able to buy from Sigma Aldrich as an individual, not part of a lab/institution? How did you do that? I was under the impression that you had to fill out some form which included your research lab/university, where an SA employee would then review it and activate your account.

I would love to know how you accomplished this. I am ready to purchase/test things, I just need to actually BUY the compounds.

Thanks!

[cherrysilver]

Cherry,

You mentioned to me that Sigma Aldrich only selling to real companies "has never stopped you before".

What did you mean by this? Were you able to buy from Sigma Aldrich as an individual, not part of a lab/institution? How did you do that? I was under the impression that you had to fill out some form which included your research lab/university, where an SA employee would then review it and activate your account.

I would love to know how you accomplished this. I am ready to purchase/test things, I just need to actually BUY the compounds.

Thanks!

We have our ways and will not divulge our methods under torture of death.....

[Boba155]

Hahaha. Ah well, I guess I'll just try HMC, I can procure that form health food stores.