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MindControl of Humanity- Official Science&Religion


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#1 infinpotential

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 05:00 PM


This post was moved to the "Catcher" forum, with NO explanation given by Don Spanton except this on June 23rd:

(Navigation: Ah, gotta love conspiracy theories. To the catcher with this one!)

I clearly realize that either Don Spanton is clueless about the nature of reality/Life and how Humanity is being manipulated, or he or those whom he serves has an Agenda to suppress the knowledge that could set us Free.

I'd appreciate those who exercise their Control over where posts go, that they honestly know the nature of the post, without having a belief system to defend, and Read the information given before making deadly assumptions.

I get about 4 hours a week online, I'm hoping this "Open Discussion" forum will not suppress this post, as it is extremely important for us (Humanity) to have a chance of surviving in the coming years, without being re-manipulated into another Time & Space part of this 3D holographic world we call 'reality' when experiencing Death.

--

Everything is Energy. Energy CANNOT be destroyed only change form.

Once we realize all Energy is Thought from Spirit manifesting itself in different forms thru Feeling & Desire, we realize that our Thoughts have the Potential to change & create the reality we wish to experience. The reason why the vast majority of Humans believes they are NOT in Control of THEIR Life is due to those who Control the massly propagated information to them, that gives them their Beliefs & sense of reality - their History - what is Possible, Impossible, Good, & Evil. They don't even realize that all their judgements (Limiting beliefs) are governing their Lives to such an enormous degree. The way we can regain Control over our Minds and the reality we experience is to become Masters of understanding where our Thoughts are originating, and then we have the chance to choose if we shall Feel the emotion - or if we wish to replace it with a More Uplifting Thought & Feeling. If it is a Thought that originated "out there" and not from our own mind and it gives us a Limited sense of Possibility, or has a degree of Fear & Anger that create stress, frustrations, anxiety, worry, depression, indulgences, and other such high-level conceptually explained emotions stemmed from those 2 basic emotions - it may very well be from those who wish to Control our minds.

Thoughts are interchangeable with Beliefs (which is highly reinforced Thought & Desire) and interpretations, reality/state of mind/frequency. You could also say each thought consist of entities which also have their own mini-reality thru which they believe life to be. Humans are a complex collection of them.

The only perhaps 'evil' is the degree one imposes their Beliefs & Desires upon another and Consciously knows how not to be Limited by others. Simplistically speaking of course :)


From Chapter 16 of David Icke's book "Alice and Wonderland & The World Trade Center Disaster"

http://members.shaw....ic...ter16.htm"

Here are a few excerpts:

QUOTE
The Illuminati have used two apparent "opposites" to control the reality of people: official science and the greatest form of mind control ever invented - religion. These are seen as opposites, as polarities, but they are oppo-sames. They are the same outcome by a different route. "Science" has basically told us that the world that we see is all that exists and that what happens to us in our few years of consciousness is as random as life itself. Religion tells us that if we do as it says we will go to paradise as a chosen one. If we do not do as it says we shall spend our eternity in the fires of hell. Both "opposites" have a common theme. You are not in control of your life; you are either a random accident or the pawn in the game of some dictator god who is so loving he will condemn you to an eternity of suffering for having the nerve not to do what the men in frocks tell you. The common theme is that you are ordinary and powerless, and you must look outside of yourself to others, to tell you what you should think, do and say.


"
Tent pitching
when we arrive in this five-sense "world" we begin to walk our journey of experience. I have likened it to carrying a tent in a backpack, walking down the road and looking for somewhere to pitch it, settle down, and find our comfort zone. Where we choose to stop decides the way we see the world because this is the point, the perspective, from which we observe people and events. Here are some of the "camp sites".


Base Camp: Most people don't choose to walk very far A few strides and out come the pegs at a point where they believe what the media tells them and accept that they are ordinary and powerless or that they know all they need to know (same thing). They are happy to drift through life guided by accepted "norms" and conditioned "thought". They include the atheists and the fanatical religious believers, those who think this world is all that exists and those who think that if they do ihatever their religion tells them they might get a ticket to the afterlife in paradise. I will call these the "Base-Campers" and they represent by far the greatest number of humankind.


Radical Camp: Others walk a bit further until they find an acceptable spot. These are the "Radical-Campers", and they have begun to see that there is more to know than we are told. They may be "greens" and "environmentalists" or campaigners against the arms trade, "third world" debt, globalisafion and other five-sense injustices. The Base-Campers who pitched their tents back down the road see these Radical-Campers as extreme and "loony" because we judge everything and everyone from our own point of observation - where our tent is pitched. What is perfectly sensible to one person or group will be extreme or crazy to another In the same way, our conditioning, background and accumulated "knowledge" lead us to see the same event from very different perspectives. If a guy came out of the sea with a crab clinging to his bum someone might shout, "Hey, there's a crab's claw stuck to your bum." But a fellow crab might say, "Hey, you've got a man's bum stuck to your claw." Depends on your point of observation.


Conspiracy Camp: Those who are still not satisfied with the perspectives and beliefs of the Radical Camp decide to walk some more before they pitch the tent. These "Conspiracy-Campers" realise that the injustices the Radical- Campers acknowledge are not random, but part of a coldly calculated global injustice, the Illuminati conspiracy. They will see the connections and the game plan within the five-sense reality - the names, dates, coordination and so on. The Radical-Campers see these Conspiracy-Campers as extreme in the same way that Base Campers see them. The Radical-Campers may, and indeed many do, condemn the Conspiracy-Campers as "racist" and "Nazis". Did you know that a global fascist state is unfolding all around you? What? You're a Nazi - condemn him, ban his meetings, ban his books. You think I'm joking? If only I was. Back down the road in the tent city of the Base Camp, they see the Conspiracy-Campers as crazy, loony "conspiracy theorists" akin to members of the Flat Earth Society.


Infinity Camp: There are others, the "Infinity-Campers" I will call them, who continue to walk on past the point where the five-sense conspiracy researchers are banging in their pegs. They have no desire to pitch a tent and they don't even carry one because there is never enough time to put it down before something draws them further down the road of inner and outer discovery. By now the road is quiet with not many people about, but those who venture this far start to realise that the world we see, hear, touch, smell and taste, is an illusion and only a very tiny frequency range that those senses can perceive. Beyond its vibrational walls is infinity, where all possibility exists. They see that the five-sense "human bodies" of the Illuminati leaders are only a physical vehicle for entities operating beyond the five senses to control the "physical" world and turn humanity into a giant battery, an energy source. To conventional five-sense conspiracy researchers, Infinity-Campers are extreme and doing great harm to their efforts to persuade people through names, dates, places, etc., that the conspiracy is real. To the Radical-Campers they are lunatics, but dangerous ones if "naive" people believe what they say. To the Base-Campers they should be locked away in a psychiatric institution because they are clearly mentally ill. In short: anyone who moves beyond the point where you have pitched your tent is seen as extreme and the further they wander down the road the more extreme you perceive them to be. Their points of observation are so different, and this puts them, literally, on different "wavelengths".


When we love ourselves and love all things the causes of our plight in this five-sense reality will disappear without a gun being fired.  This is why:

1. When you love yourself and respect yourself you will never give away to anyone your power and responsibility to perceive and act. You will not be told what to do and what to think.

2. When you love and respect all things, you will not make judgements based on “How does this affect me?”, but only on the basis of what you believe to be right.

3. When you open you heart to love of self and all things, you immediately connect with the infinite ocean that is also love.  If you express the vibration, the frequency of love, in its true, unconditional sense, you must connect with that same frequency out in the infinite, beyond the five-sense illusion.  The infinite will then become you point of observation, and not five-sense reality.  You will be in this “world” physically, but your consciousness will not be of it.  Addiction over.

4. When you express love for self and others you no longer project the disharmonious, chaotic vibrations, of fear, conflict, hatred and aggression, and instead broadcast harmony – love – into the raging sea around us.  We become the vehicle to bring love out of the infinite and into the energy field of five-sense reality.  When we do so, and more and more do the same, we transform the chaos into harmony, the raging sea into a pool of tranquility.  As this process begins to unfold it becomes easier and easier for incarnate consciousness in five-sense reality to reconnect with infinite self as the chaotic vibrations around us subside and allow the connection with the infinite to be received unpolluted once again.


.
..
.

Thoughts? :)
would appreciate if you read the entire chapter in its context

His latest book is "Infinite Love Is The Only Truth Everything Else Is Illusion". His websites are

www.DavidIcke.com
www.BridgeOfLove.com
www.IckeMedia.com


I may not be able to respond, I'm on a public terminal and I had to rush this message. I no longer have unrestricted Internet access, as my probation officer is restricting such privileges.


~ eclecticdreamer
=o)~< ~O~ >~<:3

(Navigation: Ah, gotta love conspiracy theories. To the catcher with this one!)

This post has been edited by DonSpanton on Jun 23, 2005

Edited by infinpotential, 29 June 2005 - 05:35 PM.


#2 Infernity

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 06:45 PM

Yes, yes yes! well some of it I am not totally sure I completely agree, although YES to the idea, and by that, maybe I should trust you logic on this.
QUOTE
Everything is Energy. Energy CANNOT be destroyed only change form

Yes, oh how many times I said this? [sfty]

http://www.imminst.o...238
QUOTE
QUOTE
What I want to ask of you is, why can't you not believe,at least theoretically, of the possibility of the survival of the soul? What is so bad about our conciousness being able to survive after our physical death? Isn't that what everyone wants?

I'll tell you why, Stranger.

I believe (I'd say 'I know', but, oh well, that unremarkable considering the fact we are kinda arguing on that) that all that we know, feel, sense- everything- is happening in the brain. The sophisticated somewhat computer whom gets the whole information and translate to what's known as us- the same singular experience, and self development.
What we don't feel directly in the brain- such as sensing in another part of the body- it is still sending the signs to the brain, and the brain is what makes us actually feel it, and gets it as a touch in the specific spot.
It is possible by electric waves to the brain- make us feel pain in some spot over the body- without touching it.
And we feel, and know, and dream, and think- - all analysing of the brain, like a computer somewhat...

Once you're experiencing physical death- the brain stops working! you can't think, you can't be...!

All your awareness, and all you have ever experienced is information in your brain.
"soul", is just another view, a part of what going on in the brain, which is relevant and actually exist only when the brain works.

All the energy you may claim to get out of the brain and continue as a soul- I believe it is falling apart.

The energy always were! even before you were born- - simply- it was separated, who knows, maybe a part of some electrons that fell apart too...

However- after you die- there is nothing to keep everything in part- it is losing the body of the energy, the order making computer. So all the information destroys itself automatically.

BUT- still exists- - just as a total different essence- of lots of other separated things.


I think energy is never being made, as it is never being destroyed- it is just losing homogeneousness, structure, speed, organization, etcetera...


http://www.imminst.o...T&f=9&t=6139

Perhaps, check out here, energy may be able to become theoretically absolute zero, it's just won't happen, because of the chances is about 1/infinity per cent to...

I don't believe it can be provided though, although- if it can vanish- it should be able to produce.

And as for this
QUOTE
As an aspiring immortalist, you've got nothing to lose. Maybe you should look into it

Not till it is based, and I just claim why it seems false to me.
I can't take the chance now while being alive and having awareness- to be nothing without a way to know, regret, fix, learn comprehend etcetera.
I just can't (at least now)- after I dead- I believe it doesn't matter.
If it does - - then I'll let it be- only when there is absolutely no other choice! And I mean NO OTHER CHOICE.

Yours truthfully
~Infernity


http://www.imminst.o...238
QUOTE
Stranger,

As I said "The energy always were! Even before you were born.", I also said but was not kept in same order same places nor same inosculation or traveling in space.

Let me make it more concrete.

There's an apple.
Built of cells.
Built of molecules.
Built of atoms.
Built of protons, neutrons and electrons.
The protons and neutrons built of quarks (and let's put in this level the electrons too).
After all, the supposedly tiniest thing we get to is energy (which theoretically can always be divided more, simple- to lower energy whom expresses itself by less of it, smaller...

So, this energy can also theoretically gather with others and become electrons again or whatever.

Now naturally this tiny element will soon find other to gather with and etcetera...

The point is- the energy was never destroyed, but simply were on itself without a mechanism of another element to be part of.

Mechanism such as a brain for example is something built from a concentrated energy which makes it solid to our notion, and also- energy spread as information, electrical waves, that cannot be seen but diagnosed with receptor mashings.

The brain is what keeps it in the order it is, the keeps the information running as for example memory- and not be distorted to for example another concrete brain.

Once this tool is dead, not valid- it falls apart and there is no energy to keep it the way it is.

Hence, the information is all spread, and remain energy, as everything is- but cannot remain crystallized as the personality of the person i.e.- so called 'soul', or 'self'...

So I believe.

I respect your belief since you are not a fanatic of God or anything and that's harmless, an you are a rational thinker with some eccentric experience, which will some day be explainable totally.

Yours truthfully
~Infernity


Do you agree with me...? [sfty]

Yours
~Infernity

#3 DJS

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 11:54 PM

The quotation below was taken from the link you provided. The notion of an Illuminati (I have seen this viral meme before) most definitely is a conspiracy theory, and just plain crazy to boot. There is no evidence to validate your claims and any rational agent would therefore be forced to conclude that your perception of the world is delusional.

QUOTE
The story for those who are not born into the Illuminati families and have no idea of their bloodline is rather different. The Illuminati keep detailed records of who has the dormant DNA corruption. They have used genealogical libraries like the one at the Illuminati-controlled Mormon Church in Salt Lake City, Utah, to do this in the past, but the preferred method today is a global DNA database that they are now manipulating into being under the guise of stopping crime and terrorism. What happens to these unknowing "corruption carriers" is that they are targeted by the Illuminati in the knowledge of who they are. They might be making a career in politics, the law, the military, the media and so on, and they will find that their careers suddenly take off and some powerful people begin to support them. At this stage they are under the impression that this sponsorship by influential people is because of their ability or, in the case of politics, because the supporters believe in what the target stands for But in truth it is because of their DNA. At some point the target is invited to join the secret society network as a good career move and they are put through the rituals that activate the DNA corruption.


[huh]

If you continue to post content like you are currently posting in Open Discussion I will continue to deposit it in the catcher. You are probably new here so you may not yet understand the internal structure of our website. If you wish to make posts which are "unorthodox" then please do so in free speech so I won't have to keep wasting my time cleaning up after you. FYI the free speech forum is entirely uncensored so I invite you to go in there and chat about the Illuminati or any other crazy notions that have infected your mind.

Sincerely
Don

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#4 Infernity

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 07:54 AM

[huh]
Gee just I started to read the Angels and Demons (by Dan Brown) so I can say did hear of the Illuminati. The symmetric signatory.


Perhaps I better read it all, damn time.

Edit: I am not sure now I agree with you since you brought it up, didn't they had to do with the Enlightenment...? Religion and science? this is more Susma's style.
Forget it, I won't ban my atheism.

Yours truthfully
~Infernity


#5 Infernity

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 08:33 AM

Oops,
QUOTE
MindControl of Humanity- Official Science&Religion


Forget it. I now get the point of the rest also.
The very base has logic the rest is misled. Oh well not new, all religions are something like that.
Well, the energy that does exist and never being destroyed DOES change it's connection to other energies, hence create DIFFERENT things, so there is no soul and you DON'T stay after you die. The energy that creates you was also before you have been born and so after, but it could have been on everything else, YOU are the *exact combination*. An exact copy of you, won't share same mind and not think together because it still holds different elements in themselves. So even a perfect *copy*, for the moment of accomplishing the process- in the moment when they still are *exactly* the same- they both will have a different creation of the brain, perfectly fitting each other, but still not the same thing.
Religion is just a field to fill in the holes in the education, a synthetic material we created, that is comfortable to use, that can fit itself to all science, and perhaps even take over it. Called God, Religion... Every year these holes are decreasing. Someday people might understand that God is just a pitiful comfort and misled answers.
As we shall see....

Yours
~Infernity

Edited by infernity, 20 July 2005 - 07:11 PM.


#6 DJS

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 06:10 PM

QUOTE
An exact copy of you, won't share same mind and not think together because it still holds different elements in themselves. So even a perfect *copy*, for the moment of accomplishing the process- in the moment when they still are *exactly* the same- they both will have a different creation of the brain, perfectly fitting each other, but still not the same thing.


There's no evidence to back up this position. I just recently gave my response to another poster who expressed a similar line of reasoning:

QUOTE
I personally do not believe in a soul, or for that matter any nonphysical phenomenon of significance.  From my perspective I see human beings as physical patterns of information; constantly changing and adapting to the world around them.  Our adaptability (and malleablity) is part of what I think defines us as "living".

Most scientists and philosophers would agree that it is not the particular atoms or molecules that combine to form your body that define who you are.  In fact, I believe that one could make a serious philosophical case that there is no legitimate ontological difference between one hydrogen atom and another.

Therefore there is definitely a certain validity to the "continuity of consciousness" argument, though it should be prefaced that such a line of reasoning offers no evidence one way or the other as to whether temporal lapse in this continuity destroy some essential aspect of the self.


An interesting and I believe separate point which you bring up is the imperfect nature of human memory storage and retrieval.  Now while there are many philosophical arguments out there that try to rationalize or explain away the gradual fading of our memories I personally do not buy into any of them.

Our imperfect memories and the nearly ubiquitous mental degradation that we all experience is entirely a product of our shared biological legacy.  I do not disagree with you that the "Don Spanton Age 10" has faded nearly into oblivion.  I find this fact to be most regrettable, though at the current time an unescapable reality.  Alas, it is a universal aspect of the *human condition*.

Hopefully, in the future we will be able to remedy this situation by merging with our technology, thus fundamentally altering/replacing our substrate and improving our cognitive capacities (and with it the integrity, depth and scope of the "self") to an extent that at present can only scarcely be imagined.


I am interested in knowing exactly what you have in mind Infernity when you bring up the concept of *energy*. Perhaps the meaning you are trying to convey is somehow being lost in the translation. By energy do you mean *information*?

#7 Infernity

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 06:28 PM

Don, a good proof for that:
QUOTE
An exact copy of you, won't share same mind and not think together because it still holds different elements in themselves. So even a perfect *copy*, for the moment of accomplishing the process- in the moment when they still are *exactly* the same- they both will have a different creation of the brain, perfectly fitting each other, but still not the same thing.

Is, you kill the copy- will you die too? No.
Hence- it is not sharing the mind and thinking together.
Has it cleared it up?

QUOTE
I am interested in knowing exactly what you have in mind Infernity when you bring up the concept of *energy*. Perhaps the meaning you are trying to convey is somehow being lost in the translation. By energy do you mean *information*?

Well, energy means lots of things to me, in this case I meant, ok lets see. Um the smallest division known.
I mean when you actually destroy a quark, what lefts? isn't it dividing to just energy? OK I might be mistaken and it does divide, but into what extent? in the end it is build of energy.

Now there is also the energy such as information, like consciousness, which is energy spread in an concrete energy called brain.

It is all depends on with what has the piece of energy gathered itself to. We are talking about damn small things here.

And energy can also, be, um what we know as ENERGY...

And so on, I meant the first here, and in some part also the second one.

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

#8 DJS

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 07:27 PM

QUOTE
Is, you kill the copy- will you die too? No.
Hence- it is not sharing the mind and thinking together.
Has it cleared it up?


Oh no, I understand your perspective Infernity (I have heard many express this position in the past), I simply do not agree with it.

I know that it sounds counter intuitive (which is perhaps why individuals have a hard time accepting this line of reasoning) but the physical laws of the universe do not preclude two identical brain states from existing simultaneously. (of course, the "experience" or environmental influence on the various individuals will gradual create divergent entities.)

The question that really needs to be addressed here is, 'what is you'? Are "you" the manifestation of a physical brain state, or an unobservable soul? If you are the former (ie, purely physical), then there is no reason why you can't be duplicated and exist at multiple points in space contemporaneously.

Therefore, the retort to your argument would be:

When you and your "multiple self" exist there are actually two physical entities that ARE Adi. If your "multiple self" is killed then Adi died, but is still alive. Like wise, if instead it is you that is killed, then Adi died, but is also still alive (as your multiple self).

Now, would I actually be so bold as to put my money where my mouth is and give this type of duplication and destruction scenario a shot. No, absolutely not. At least not at the present time, though I reserve hope that in the future (when such an occurence may truly be possible) we will have worked out the philosophical mysteries associated with consciousness which currently make this area of debate an open question.

My main point though is this. Neither side can claim absolute certainty because of the elusive nature of consciousness, but one side can claim an edge in the debate because the available evidence does point in their favor. There is strong evidence that consciousness is the product of physical processes taking place inside of the brain. There is zero evidence that the "soul" exists. Thus Bayesian reasoning would weigh in against the position you have taken.

#9 Infernity

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 08:24 PM

Yes, I got it that we are holding other positions... *sigh*.

Well I do have the idea of what consciousness is, based on very logic. But I'm hard in words, and most aren't even trying to understand, so no point in trying to change their minds here.

Well damn uploading let it be already...

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

#10 DJS

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:02 AM

QUOTE
But I'm hard in words, and most aren't even trying to understand,


I promise you that I will make every effort to understand your perspective.

QUOTE
no point in trying to change their minds here


Is there ever a point in trying to change the minds of others? I guess if one desires to compel others to an action that is congruent with his or her personal values this is rationally justified, but one should never get bent out of shape over it since there is very little (but not zero) chance of interpersonal dialog having a signicant effect on macro-level realities.

I think what is far more important than convincing others that one's position is correct is to convince his or herself.

That is, of course, unless one is already convinced of their ultimate infallibility...in which case the rationality of such an individual and their "absolute conviction" should be critically evaluated by acquaintances observing the agent, and held in judgement accordingly.

#11 Infernity

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 06:29 PM

Don, I'll continue here: http://www.imminst.o...7&t=7034&hl=&s= were my response is.
Hopefully he'll lock this one and continue there.

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

#12 infinpotential

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 06:44 PM

.
..
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Here is the link to the continued thread - a Must read for everyone who values Life & Freedom.

http://www.imminst.o...f=137&t=7034&s=

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